Irwell

Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
in sailing.
Should be a winner for some European port when
the next contest is held.

Emilia

[email protected] (Irwell) wrote in news:3e617c8b.5352184
@news.CIS.DFN.DE:

    > Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    > in sailing.
    > Should be a winner for some European port when
    > the next contest is held.


DH was thrilled! He stayed up very late (for his Swiss self) to watch the
final leg and woke me at 3 am to tell me the good news. Although having
been up 4-0 I can't see where the suspense was....
Too bad we won't be having the next Swiss Cup on Lake Geneva...
Haaa...Haaa.... Hopefully Italy! Wouldn't that be a dream?

Sascha

"> Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    > in sailing.
    > Should be a winner for some European port when
    > the next contest is held.

From a skiing to a sailing nation;-) Why not?

Frank Clarke

On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:


    >Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >in sailing.
    >Should be a winner for some European port when
    >the next contest is held.

How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
Americas Cup?

Emilia

Frank Clarke wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >>in sailing.
    >>Should be a winner for some European port when
    >>the next contest is held.
    >
    > How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    > Americas Cup?


M-O-N-E-Y and lots of it.

(am I stating the obvious again?)

Tandp

Emilia schrieb:
    >
    > Frank Clarke wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    > >>in sailing.
    > >>Should be a winner for some European port when
    > >>the next contest is held.
    > >
    > > How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    > > Americas Cup?
    >
    > M-O-N-E-Y and lots of it.
    >
    > (am I stating the obvious again?)

I think the NZ team did contribute to the result by wecking their boat
twice.

Tom

Emilia

tandp wrote in news:[email protected]:

    >
    >
    > Emilia schrieb:
    >>
    >> Frank Clarke wrote in
    >> news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >> > On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell)
wrote:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >> >>in sailing.
    >> >>Should be a winner for some European port when
    >> >>the next contest is held.
    >> >
    >> > How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    >> > Americas Cup?
    >>
    >> M-O-N-E-Y and lots of it.
    >>
    >> (am I stating the obvious again?)
    >
    > I think the NZ team did contribute to the result by wecking their boat
    > twice.
    >
    > Tom
    >


And by letting their winning skipper sail with the Swiss...

Sascha

    > And by letting their winning skipper sail with the Swiss...

He definitely prefered the better boat.

Zane

Frank Clarke wrote:

    >On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:
    >>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >>in sailing.
    >>Should be a winner for some European port when
    >>the next contest is held.
    >How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    >Americas Cup?

For some years now, the boats in the America's Cup haven't been much of a
reflection of the country they "represent" (with the possible exception of
New Zealand, which has an astounding number of masterful sailors,
considering its size.)

For example, the equipment manufacturers are now international corporations
who will design for, andsell to, anyone. IIRC, the hulls on both boats in
the finals (and most of the others) were engineered by companies
headquartered in the U.S. Likewise the sails, rigging, etc. Key personnel
are recruited without much consideration of their nationality. (Again,
with the exception of the New Zealanders.)

I _think_ the only Swiss thing about the winning boat was the billionare
(an accomplished sailor, to be fair) who organized and financed the
effort, and served as navigator in the races. He had the good sense to
"buy" the five key New Zealanders (professional racers) who won the last
two Cups, including the world's foremost match racer as helmsman. Other
crew were from various countries.

I expect Saudi Arabia to be the holder of the cup sometime in the next
twenty years. :-)

Maybe it's just a rationalization, but I think maybe this change is a good
thing, since it's one more thing that won't have quite so much national
jingoism associated with it. (But I'm not sure that "my billionare is
richer than your billionare" is much better.)

Zane

Forrest

    > For some years now, the boats in the America's Cup haven't been much of a
    > reflection of the country they "represent" (with the possible exception of
    > New Zealand, which has an astounding number of masterful sailors,
    > considering its size.)

But perhaps less surprising considering its position on the surface of the
globe.

Michael Forrest

Rh

    >Frank Clarke wrote:
    >>On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:
    >>>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >>>in sailing.
    >>>Should be a winner for some European port when
    >>>the next contest is held.
    >>How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    >>Americas Cup?

Landlocked maybe, but that plus its rugged and small territory has pushed the Swiss to
become commercially very active in world markets (Switzerland relies more on its exports than
on the much-propagated financial sector). Not only watches, but pharmaceutical products,
high-precision machinery, electronics. food products etc. are among the most famous
products manufactured in Switzerland for markets allover the globe Who has made the most
famous engines that powered large pcean steamers: Sulzer of Switzerland. Who know the
exact number of commercial oceangoing steamship companies with HQ in Switzerland (not to
be mixed-up with flags of convenience)?
    >For some years now, the boats in the America's Cup haven't been much of a
    >reflection of the country they "represent" (with the possible exception of
    >New Zealand, which has an astounding number of masterful sailors,
    >considering its size.)
A totally different picture was given on Swiss TV tonight: the design of the boat basically
originated in the Swiss Federal Politechnical College in Lausanne, one of the world's leading
technical colleges. A number of components were made of recent.technology composite
materials; the solidity and strength of the parts were a major advantage over the NZ boat. and,
last but not least, the boat(s) was (were) built in Morges, Switzerland, on the shores of Lake
Geneva, one of the largest (is it THE largest?) European sweetwater basins with a total length
of more than 80 km (50 miles).
As for Berterelli's billions: he is a top CEO of one of Switzerland's leading pharmaceutical
companies. And this management from the idea through project implementationt up to the
participation to win the world's most prestigious cup is at the source of this success and is
named Ernesto Bertarelli. As such, he also selected the best men, among which this fantastic
skipper Russell Scoutts.
All this costs money, I don't think that the Swiss invested more than NZ or some other
participants in the recent past. To participate in such a challenge costs a lot of moeny - just like
in formula 1 car racing - but the returns to technology and science are important as well. And it
is paid for by private investors. Much more pleasing to taxpayers and more ethical to the
winning nation than progress made over dead bodies by a government war machinery.
Please overlook the last sentence, it has nothing to do with the fascinating sport that sailing is.

    >For example, the equipment manufacturers are now international corporations
    >who will design for, andsell to, anyone. IIRC, the hulls on both boats in
    >the finals (and most of the others) were engineered by companies
    >headquartered in the U.S.

Think again and read my comments above.

Likewise the sails, rigging, etc. Key personnel
    >are recruited without much consideration of their nationality. (Again,
    >with the exception of the New Zealanders.)

Is nationality any valid qualification in a winning team?
    >I _think_ the only Swiss thing about the winning boat was the billionare
    >(an accomplished sailor, to be fair) who organized and financed the
    >effort, and served as navigator in the races. He had the good sense to
    >"buy" the five key New Zealanders (professional racers) who won the last
    >two Cups, including the world's foremost match racer as helmsman. Other
    >crew were from various countries.
Now to the point: Who financed the NZ boat(s) and crew? Was it really cheaper than the Swiss
venture?

    >I expect Saudi Arabia to be the holder of the cup sometime in the next
    >twenty years. :-)

So what....?
    >Maybe it's just a rationalization, but I think maybe this change is a good
    >thing, since it's one more thing that won't have quite so much national
    >jingoism associated with it.

Thanks, on this point we seem to agree

Rh

    >Frank Clarke wrote:
    >>On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:
    >>>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >>>in sailing.
    >>>Should be a winner for some European port when
    >>>the next contest is held.
    >>How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    >>Americas Cup?

Landlocked maybe, but that plus its rugged and small territory has pushed the Swiss to
become commercially very active in world markets (Switzerland relies more on its exports than
on the much-propagated financial sector). Not only watches, but pharmaceutical products,
high-precision machinery, electronics. food products etc. are among the most famous
products manufactured in Switzerland for markets allover the globe Who has made the most
famous engines that powered large pcean steamers: Sulzer of Switzerland. Who know the
exact number of commercial oceangoing steamship companies with HQ in Switzerland (not to
be mixed-up with flags of convenience)?
    >For some years now, the boats in the America's Cup haven't been much of a
    >reflection of the country they "represent" (with the possible exception of
    >New Zealand, which has an astounding number of masterful sailors,
    >considering its size.)
A totally different picture was given on Swiss TV tonight: the design of the boat basically
originated in the Swiss Federal Politechnical College in Lausanne, one of the world's leading
technical colleges. A number of components were made of recent.technology composite
materials; the solidity and strength of the parts were a major advantage over the NZ boat. and,
last but not least, the boat(s) was (were) built in Morges, Switzerland, on the shores of Lake
Geneva, one of the largest (is it THE largest?) European sweetwater basins with a total length
of more than 80 km (50 miles).
As for Berterelli's billions: he is a top CEO of one of Switzerland's leading pharmaceutical
companies. And this management from the idea through project implementationt up to the
participation to win the world's most prestigious cup is at the source of this success and is
named Ernesto Bertarelli. As such, he also selected the best men, among which this fantastic
skipper Russell Scoutts.
All this costs money, I don't think that the Swiss invested more than NZ or some other
participants in the recent past. To participate in such a challenge costs a lot of moeny - just like
in formula 1 car racing - but the returns to technology and science are important as well. And it
is paid for by private investors. Much more pleasing to taxpayers and more ethical to the
winning nation than progress made over dead bodies by a government war machinery.
Please overlook the last sentence, it has nothing to do with the fascinating sport that sailing is.

    >For example, the equipment manufacturers are now international corporations
    >who will design for, andsell to, anyone. IIRC, the hulls on both boats in
    >the finals (and most of the others) were engineered by companies
    >headquartered in the U.S.

Think again and read my comments above.

Likewise the sails, rigging, etc. Key personnel
    >are recruited without much consideration of their nationality. (Again,
    >with the exception of the New Zealanders.)

Is nationality any valid qualification in a winning team?
    >I _think_ the only Swiss thing about the winning boat was the billionare
    >(an accomplished sailor, to be fair) who organized and financed the
    >effort, and served as navigator in the races. He had the good sense to
    >"buy" the five key New Zealanders (professional racers) who won the last
    >two Cups, including the world's foremost match racer as helmsman. Other
    >crew were from various countries.
Now to the point: Who financed the NZ boat(s) and crew? Was it really cheaper than the Swiss
venture?

    >I expect Saudi Arabia to be the holder of the cup sometime in the next
    >twenty years. :-)

So what....?
    >Maybe it's just a rationalization, but I think maybe this change is a good
    >thing, since it's one more thing that won't have quite so much national
    >jingoism associated with it.

Thanks, on this point we seem to agree

Rh

    >Frank Clarke wrote:
    >>On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:
    >>>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >>>in sailing.
    >>>Should be a winner for some European port when
    >>>the next contest is held.
    >>How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    >>Americas Cup?

Landlocked maybe, but that plus its rugged and small territory has pushed the Swiss to
become commercially very active in world markets (Switzerland relies more on its exports than
on the much-propagated financial sector). Not only watches, but pharmaceutical products,
high-precision machinery, electronics. food products etc. are among the most famous
products manufactured in Switzerland for markets allover the globe Who has made the most
famous engines that powered large pcean steamers: Sulzer of Switzerland. Who know the
exact number of commercial oceangoing steamship companies with HQ in Switzerland (not to
be mixed-up with flags of convenience)?
    >For some years now, the boats in the America's Cup haven't been much of a
    >reflection of the country they "represent" (with the possible exception of
    >New Zealand, which has an astounding number of masterful sailors,
    >considering its size.)
A totally different picture was given on Swiss TV tonight: the design of the boat basically
originated in the Swiss Federal Politechnical College in Lausanne, one of the world's leading
technical colleges. A number of components were made of recent.technology composite
materials; the solidity and strength of the parts were a major advantage over the NZ boat. and,
last but not least, the boat(s) was (were) built in Morges, Switzerland, on the shores of Lake
Geneva, one of the largest (is it THE largest?) European sweetwater basins with a total length
of more than 80 km (50 miles).
As for Berterelli's billions: he is a top CEO of one of Switzerland's leading pharmaceutical
companies. And this management from the idea through project implementationt up to the
participation to win the world's most prestigious cup is at the source of this success and is
named Ernesto Bertarelli. As such, he also selected the best men, among which this fantastic
skipper Russell Scoutts.
All this costs money, I don't think that the Swiss invested more than NZ or some other
participants in the recent past. To participate in such a challenge costs a lot of moeny - just like
in formula 1 car racing - but the returns to technology and science are important as well. And it
is paid for by private investors. Much more pleasing to taxpayers and more ethical to the
winning nation than progress made over dead bodies by a government war machinery.
Please overlook the last sentence, it has nothing to do with the fascinating sport that sailing is.

    >For example, the equipment manufacturers are now international corporations
    >who will design for, andsell to, anyone. IIRC, the hulls on both boats in
    >the finals (and most of the others) were engineered by companies
    >headquartered in the U.S.

Think again and read my comments above.

Likewise the sails, rigging, etc. Key personnel
    >are recruited without much consideration of their nationality. (Again,
    >with the exception of the New Zealanders.)

Is nationality any valid qualification in a winning team?
    >I _think_ the only Swiss thing about the winning boat was the billionare
    >(an accomplished sailor, to be fair) who organized and financed the
    >effort, and served as navigator in the races. He had the good sense to
    >"buy" the five key New Zealanders (professional racers) who won the last
    >two Cups, including the world's foremost match racer as helmsman. Other
    >crew were from various countries.
Now to the point: Who financed the NZ boat(s) and crew? Was it really cheaper than the Swiss
venture?

    >I expect Saudi Arabia to be the holder of the cup sometime in the next
    >twenty years. :-)

So what....?
    >Maybe it's just a rationalization, but I think maybe this change is a good
    >thing, since it's one more thing that won't have quite so much national
    >jingoism associated with it.

Thanks, on this point we seem to agree

Rh

    >Frank Clarke wrote:
    >>On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:
    >>>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >>>in sailing.
    >>>Should be a winner for some European port when
    >>>the next contest is held.
    >>How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    >>Americas Cup?

Landlocked maybe, but that plus its rugged and small territory has pushed the Swiss to
become commercially very active in world markets (Switzerland relies more on its exports than
on the much-propagated financial sector). Not only watches, but pharmaceutical products,
high-precision machinery, electronics. food products etc. are among the most famous
products manufactured in Switzerland for markets allover the globe Who has made the most
famous engines that powered large pcean steamers: Sulzer of Switzerland. Who know the
exact number of commercial oceangoing steamship companies with HQ in Switzerland (not to
be mixed-up with flags of convenience)?
    >For some years now, the boats in the America's Cup haven't been much of a
    >reflection of the country they "represent" (with the possible exception of
    >New Zealand, which has an astounding number of masterful sailors,
    >considering its size.)
A totally different picture was given on Swiss TV tonight: the design of the boat basically
originated in the Swiss Federal Politechnical College in Lausanne, one of the world's leading
technical colleges. A number of components were made of recent.technology composite
materials; the solidity and strength of the parts were a major advantage over the NZ boat. and,
last but not least, the boat(s) was (were) built in Morges, Switzerland, on the shores of Lake
Geneva, one of the largest (is it THE largest?) European sweetwater basins with a total length
of more than 80 km (50 miles).
As for Berterelli's billions: he is a top CEO of one of Switzerland's leading pharmaceutical
companies. And this management from the idea through project implementationt up to the
participation to win the world's most prestigious cup is at the source of this success and is
named Ernesto Bertarelli. As such, he also selected the best men, among which this fantastic
skipper Russell Scoutts.
All this costs money, I don't think that the Swiss invested more than NZ or some other
participants in the recent past. To participate in such a challenge costs a lot of moeny - just like
in formula 1 car racing - but the returns to technology and science are important as well. And it
is paid for by private investors. Much more pleasing to taxpayers and more ethical to the
winning nation than progress made over dead bodies by a government war machinery.
Please overlook the last sentence, it has nothing to do with the fascinating sport that sailing is.

    >For example, the equipment manufacturers are now international corporations
    >who will design for, andsell to, anyone. IIRC, the hulls on both boats in
    >the finals (and most of the others) were engineered by companies
    >headquartered in the U.S.

Think again and read my comments above.

Likewise the sails, rigging, etc. Key personnel
    >are recruited without much consideration of their nationality. (Again,
    >with the exception of the New Zealanders.)

Is nationality any valid qualification in a winning team?
    >I _think_ the only Swiss thing about the winning boat was the billionare
    >(an accomplished sailor, to be fair) who organized and financed the
    >effort, and served as navigator in the races. He had the good sense to
    >"buy" the five key New Zealanders (professional racers) who won the last
    >two Cups, including the world's foremost match racer as helmsman. Other
    >crew were from various countries.
Now to the point: Who financed the NZ boat(s) and crew? Was it really cheaper than the Swiss
venture?

    >I expect Saudi Arabia to be the holder of the cup sometime in the next
    >twenty years. :-)

So what....?
    >Maybe it's just a rationalization, but I think maybe this change is a good
    >thing, since it's one more thing that won't have quite so much national
    >jingoism associated with it.

Thanks, on this point we seem to agree

Rh

    >Frank Clarke wrote:
    >>On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Irwell) wrote:
    >>>Congrats to the Swiss on winning the Americas Cup
    >>>in sailing.
    >>>Should be a winner for some European port when
    >>>the next contest is held.
    >>How does a land-locked country compete in (much less -win-) the
    >>Americas Cup?

Landlocked maybe, but that plus its rugged and small territory has pushed the Swiss to
become commercially very active in world markets (Switzerland relies more on its exports than
on the much-propagated financial sector). Not only watches, but pharmaceutical products,
high-precision machinery, electronics. food products etc. are among the most famous
products manufactured in Switzerland for markets allover the globe Who has made the most
famous engines that powered large pcean steamers: Sulzer of Switzerland. Who know the
exact number of commercial oceangoing steamship companies with HQ in Switzerland (not to
be mixed-up with flags of convenience)?
    >For some years now, the boats in the America's Cup haven't been much of a
    >reflection of the country they "represent" (with the possible exception of
    >New Zealand, which has an astounding number of masterful sailors,
    >considering its size.)
A totally different picture was given on Swiss TV tonight: the design of the boat basically
originated in the Swiss Federal Politechnical College in Lausanne, one of the world's leading
technical colleges. A number of components were made of recent.technology composite
materials; the solidity and strength of the parts were a major advantage over the NZ boat. and,
last but not least, the boat(s) was (were) built in Morges, Switzerland, on the shores of Lake
Geneva, one of the largest (is it THE largest?) European sweetwater basins with a total length
of more than 80 km (50 miles).
As for Berterelli's billions: he is a top CEO of one of Switzerland's leading pharmaceutical
companies. And this management from the idea through project implementationt up to the
participation to win the world's most prestigious cup is at the source of this success and is
named Ernesto Bertarelli. As such, he also selected the best men, among which this fantastic
skipper Russell Scoutts.
All this costs money, I don't think that the Swiss invested more than NZ or some other
participants in the recent past. To participate in such a challenge costs a lot of moeny - just like
in formula 1 car racing - but the returns to technology and science are important as well. And it
is paid for by private investors. Much more pleasing to taxpayers and more ethical to the
winning nation than progress made over dead bodies by a government war machinery.
Please overlook the last sentence, it has nothing to do with the fascinating sport that sailing is.

    >For example, the equipment manufacturers are now international corporations
    >who will design for, andsell to, anyone. IIRC, the hulls on both boats in
    >the finals (and most of the others) were engineered by companies
    >headquartered in the U.S.

Think again and read my comments above.

Likewise the sails, rigging, etc. Key personnel
    >are recruited without much consideration of their nationality. (Again,
    >with the exception of the New Zealanders.)

Is nationality any valid qualification in a winning team?
    >I _think_ the only Swiss thing about the winning boat was the billionare
    >(an accomplished sailor, to be fair) who organized and financed the
    >effort, and served as navigator in the races. He had the good sense to
    >"buy" the five key New Zealanders (professional racers) who won the last
    >two Cups, including the world's foremost match racer as helmsman. Other
    >crew were from various countries.
Now to the point: Who financed the NZ boat(s) and crew? Was it really cheaper than the Swiss
venture?

    >I expect Saudi Arabia to be the holder of the cup sometime in the next
    >twenty years. :-)

So what....?
    >Maybe it's just a rationalization, but I think maybe this change is a good
    >thing, since it's one more thing that won't have quite so much national
    >jingoism associated with it.

Thanks, on this point we seem to agree