Steve C

Have been to Scotland before, but never to Southwest England
(Portsmouth, Lands End, etc.). Wondering which trip to take based on
the following info:

1. 2 adults, 2 late-teens kids

2. no problem driving

3. would like to go to York, Hadrian's Wall, Warwick, Bath on this
trip.

4. Plan to land/leave in London in first week of June 2005.

5. Like to see castles

6. not interested in hiking (due to physical problems)

7. Have seen Edinburgh, Stirling, St. Andrews, West coast of Scotland.
Have not seen Glasgow.

any suggestions for a sample itinerary based on driving from London?

thanks,

steve

Edmund Lewis

Steve C wrote:
    > Have been to Scotland before, but never to Southwest England
    > (Portsmouth, Lands End, etc.). Wondering which trip to take based on
    > the following info:
    > 1. 2 adults, 2 late-teens kids
    > 2. no problem driving
    > 3. would like to go to York, Hadrian's Wall, Warwick, Bath on this
    > trip.
    > 4. Plan to land/leave in London in first week of June 2005.
    > 5. Like to see castles
    > 6. not interested in hiking (due to physical problems)
    > 7. Have seen Edinburgh, Stirling, St. Andrews, West coast of
Scotland.
    > Have not seen Glasgow.
    > any suggestions for a sample itinerary based on driving from London?
    > thanks,
    > steve

Steve,
How many days do you have? And how much driving are you prepared
to do per day? And this may seem a silly question, but which London
airport are you arriving at?
Would be glad to help you

Edmund

The Reids

Following up to Steve C

    >Have been to Scotland before, but never to Southwest England
    >(Portsmouth, Lands End, etc.). Wondering which trip to take based on
    >the following info:
    >1. 2 adults, 2 late-teens kids
    >2. no problem driving
    >3. would like to go to York, Hadrian's Wall, Warwick, Bath on this
    >trip.

that wouldn't fit well with the south west

    >4. Plan to land/leave in London in first week of June 2005.
    >5. Like to see castles

Wales has many of the best castles, Scottish ones tend to be
tower houses, but often in beautiful locations. The SW has few
but does have more ancient remains like stone circles .

    >6. not interested in hiking (due to physical problems)

The coast of the SW peninsula is often very beautiful, but note
that we like to keep cars away from it and have the SW coast
footpath along the nicer bits. There are however plenty of points
of access, like Kynance Cove on Lizard and various beaches and
fishing villages.
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/southwestphotos.htm"

In June a lot of Brits will be there on holiday, expect traffic
congestion, although not as bad as August. There are beaches for
the kids and various tourist attractions aimed at holidaymakers
if you like that kind of thing.

    >7. Have seen Edinburgh, Stirling, St. Andrews, West coast of Scotland.
    >Have not seen Glasgow.

I don't think Glasgow really justifies another visit when you
have been to those other places?

    >any suggestions for a sample itinerary based on driving from London?

Do York by train from London, then hire car and go to Bath via
the Cotswolds and Salisbury plain, down to the south devon coast
via the moors and on to Lizard (most southerly point) and then
the south coast to the immediate east of Lands End. don't stick
to main roads, explore the byways.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Rob

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    >Following up to Steve C
    >>Have been to Scotland before, but never to Southwest England
    >>(Portsmouth, Lands End, etc.). Wondering which trip to take based on
    >>the following info:
    >>1. 2 adults, 2 late-teens kids
    >>2. no problem driving
    >>3. would like to go to York, Hadrian's Wall, Warwick, Bath on this
    >>trip.
    >that wouldn't fit well with the south west
    >>4. Plan to land/leave in London in first week of June 2005.
    >>5. Like to see castles
    >Wales has many of the best castles, Scottish ones tend to be
    >tower houses, but often in beautiful locations. The SW has few
    >but does have more ancient remains like stone circles .

See http://www.castlewales.com/edwrdcas.html for more info on the north welsh
castles.

Jack Campin - bogus address

    >> Have been to Scotland before, but never to Southwest England
    >> (Portsmouth, Lands End, etc.). Wondering which trip to take
    >> based on the following info: [...]
    >> 6. not interested in hiking (due to physical problems)
    > The coast of the SW peninsula is often very beautiful, but note
    > that we like to keep cars away from it and have the SW coast
    > footpath along the nicer bits.

The only bit of the SW I know is the far tip of Cornwall, which has
a fascinating collection of Neolithic and Iron Age ruins, almost
none of which are accessible without a short walk over rough ground.
Scottish West Coast and Highland scenery is on a bigger scale and
you can see more of it from a car. (The first book to describe
what you can do in Scotland by car was H.V. Morton's "In Search of
Scotland" about 60 years ago, and despite his utterly uncool gee-
whiz tone, it still sweeps you up in his enthusiasm and most of
what he suggests is still doable).


    > In June a lot of Brits will be there on holiday, expect traffic
    > congestion, although not as bad as August.

Driving in Cornwall is like one of the more advanced levels of
a particularly fiendish video game - narrow roads, high walls,
tight corners, far more traffic than the roads were meant for.
Scottish roads are a heck of a lot easier (even the single-track
ones on the islands).


    >> 7. Have seen Edinburgh, Stirling, St. Andrews, West coast of
    >> Scotland. Have not seen Glasgow.
    > I don't think Glasgow really justifies another visit when you
    > have been to those other places?

It has far more modern and stylish shops than the others, good
museums and art galleries, and some of the most adventurous
cultural events in Britain. Look to see what's on before ruling
it out. It is also quite flat, which makes it easier to get
round with a stick, zimmer frame or wheelchair. In many ways it
feels more like a continental European city than a British one.
(Having just taken a 14-year-old on a shop-till-you-drop tour
round it finishing with the magical illuminations by the river,
I can testify that it does appeal very strongly to some kids).

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

Steve C

I have two weeks total in the U.K. we would like to see York if
possible since we haven't been back in a few years with the whole
family (I was there in November of 2003, but not the rest of the
family).

don't mind the driving THAT much. the drive to York from London, over
to Hadrian's Wall, back down to Warwick and the Cotswolds, Bath, etc.
I could do somewhat easily. just wondering if that will be too much
to go down to the southwest or should I just shoot for the eastern
side of Scotland as far north as St. Andrews.

was thinking about driving from London to York, up to Durham, then
Edinburgh, St. Andrews, back down towards Hadrian's Wall (perhaps via
Glasgow?) then down to Warwick, Cotswolds, Bath and back to London?

steve



On 3 Apr 2005 20:45:08 -0700, "Edmund Lewis" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Steve C wrote:
    >> Have been to Scotland before, but never to Southwest England
    >> (Portsmouth, Lands End, etc.). Wondering which trip to take based on
    >> the following info:
    >> 1. 2 adults, 2 late-teens kids
    >> 2. no problem driving
    >> 3. would like to go to York, Hadrian's Wall, Warwick, Bath on this
    >> trip.
    >> 4. Plan to land/leave in London in first week of June 2005.
    >> 5. Like to see castles
    >> 6. not interested in hiking (due to physical problems)
    >> 7. Have seen Edinburgh, Stirling, St. Andrews, West coast of
    >Scotland.
    >> Have not seen Glasgow.
    >> any suggestions for a sample itinerary based on driving from London?
    >> thanks,
    >> steve
    >Steve,
    > How many days do you have? And how much driving are you prepared
    >to do per day? And this may seem a silly question, but which London
    >airport are you arriving at?
    >Would be glad to help you
    >Edmund

Alan S

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 22:35:16 -0600, Steve C <[email protected]>
wrote:

    |I have two weeks total in the U.K. we would like to see York if
    |possible since we haven't been back in a few years with the whole
    |family (I was there in November of 2003, but not the rest of the
    |family).
    |
    |don't mind the driving THAT much. the drive to York from London, over
    |to Hadrian's Wall, back down to Warwick and the Cotswolds, Bath, etc.
    |I could do somewhat easily. just wondering if that will be too much
    |to go down to the southwest or should I just shoot for the eastern
    |side of Scotland as far north as St. Andrews.
    |
    |was thinking about driving from London to York, up to Durham, then
    |Edinburgh, St. Andrews, back down towards Hadrian's Wall (perhaps via
    |Glasgow?) then down to Warwick, Cotswolds, Bath and back to London?
    |
    |steve
Hi Steve

Two weeks should be more than sufficient. It all depends on what you
want to see, and how long you want to spend there. We did more than
that in a week (our only time in the UK), without stress using back
roads and byways. However, you may feel that this itinerary looks
rushed. Personal choice.
I am a retired cabby, so take that into account, but in one week in
June '03 we did:

Day 1 Edinburgh (arrival from Eire, stayed Travelodge)
Day 2 Edinburgh, Old Town , picked up car in the afternoon, stayed
Linlithgow farm-stay B&B.
Day 3 Linlithgow Castle, Stirling, Loch Lomond, Erskine Bridge,
Irvine, stayed Kilmarnock Rugby Hotel.
Day 4. Wandered back roads of SW Scotland, Hadrian's wall, stayed
Carlisle B&B.
Day 5. Lakes district, York, stayed Loughborough Comfort Motel.
Day 6. Shrewsbury (I'm an Ellis Peters/Edith Pargeter fan, so
Shrewsbury Cathedral was special), Hereford, eastern Wales, stayed
Frome Hotel (near Bath).
Day 7. Wandered Bath district.
Day 8. Stonehenge, returned car in Oxford.

We spent another 5 days in Oxford with friends, then another 5 in
London in a self-catering apartment. Despite appearances, we spent
more time wandering around castles, cathedrals, markets etc than we
spent in the car. We were only in the UK for 17 days, but it was a
wonderful 2 1/2 weeks:-)

No advance bookings. Generally, mid-afternoon we looked for an
internet cafe to book accommodation or for a Tourist information
centre to book a B&B. Only once in the UK did we get nervous that we
may need to sleep in the car:-)


Cheers, Alan, Australia

myleftarmitches

If you are going to be in the Cotswolds, you might want to consider
popping in to
Southeast Wales for a bit. Nice castle across the English border in
Chepstow,
and also in Raglan (my personal favorite). Nearby Tintern Abbey is a
cool ruin. Caerphilly castles is a little bit further into Wales but
is well worth seeing.
Skenfrith, White and Grossmont castles are also near the Welsh-English
border.

Goalie of the Century

In message <[email protected] .com>,
[email protected] writes
    >Skenfrith, White and Grossmont castles are also near the Welsh-English
    >border.

and Goodrich, one of my favourites, just off the main A40 road.

http://www.castlewales.com/goodrich.html
--
Goalie of the Century

A.Spencer3

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > If you are going to be in the Cotswolds, you might want to consider
    > popping in to
    > Southeast Wales for a bit. Nice castle across the English border in
    > Chepstow,
    > and also in Raglan (my personal favorite). Nearby Tintern Abbey is a
    > cool ruin. Caerphilly castles is a little bit further into Wales but
    > is well worth seeing.
    > Skenfrith, White and Grossmont castles are also near the Welsh-English
    > border.

Caerphilly Castle is the largest castle in the UK except for Windsor, and
has the most excellent defensive plan of the period of 'em all. It's also
quite scenic (Leaning Tower - more so than Pisa - etc.).
The fact that my Welsh family are from Caerphilly, and my presumed
Anglo/Norman ancestors once held it is totally irrelevant, of course! :-))

Surreyman

nitram

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:06:46 GMT, "a.spencer3"
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >Caerphilly Castle is the largest castle in the UK except for Windsor, and
    >has the most excellent defensive plan of the period of 'em all. It's also
    >quite scenic (Leaning Tower - more so than Pisa - etc.).
    >The fact that my Welsh family are from Caerphilly, and my presumed
    >Anglo/Norman ancestors once held it is totally irrelevant, of course! :-))

Size isn't everything as Mixi will confirm.

wasleys

Steve,

Re castles. Seriously consider North Wales. Conwy, Biwmaris,
Caernarfon and Harlech Castles are all superb and close to each other.
Others nearby are also good. See http://www.cadw.wales.gov.uk/ (If in
the area consider Portmeirion and Ffestiniog Railway too).

If going up east side of UK consider assorted castles between York and
Edinburgh. Hermitage Castle is also worthwhile but a bit hard to get
too. Some of those between Glasgow (which is excellent for museums and
Burrell Collection) and Carlisle are good too. English Heritage website
is useless, but Historic Scotland is better at
http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/...properties.htm

In general terms SW Scotland (Dumfries and Galloway) is very
attractive, much less busy than SW England and would fit in with return
south from Glasgow.

Other comments. If doing east side consider Beverley (small town with
finest Gothic minster in Europe), Durham (incredible Norman cathedral),
Berwick (Tudor town walls).

Michael

Edmund Lewis

Steve C wrote:
    > I have two weeks total in the U.K. we would like to see York if
    > possible since we haven't been back in a few years with the whole
    > family (I was there in November of 2003, but not the rest of the
    > family).

Ah. From your original post it suggested you only had 1 week- 2 makes
it easier :-)

    > don't mind the driving THAT much. the drive to York from London,
Straight up the A1, or M1/A1. Simple, no problems.

over
    > to Hadrian's Wall, back down to Warwick and the Cotswolds, Bath, etc.
    > I could do somewhat easily.
London-York-Hadrian's Wall, yes. Driving from there down to the
Cotswolds is a lot more time consuming- you'll have to cut across
country, and it
will be tiring. You'd be best stopping off somewhere en route.

just wondering if that will be too much
    > to go down to the southwest

Only 1 or 2 main roads go down there, can be very congested especially
if it's the half term/Bank Holiday week. Also may be hard to find
accommodation without booking well in advance. But has some great
beaches and nice countryside.

or should I just shoot for the eastern
    > side of Scotland as far north as St. Andrews.
    > was thinking about driving from London to York, up to Durham, then
    > Edinburgh, St. Andrews, back down towards Hadrian's Wall (perhaps via
    > Glasgow?) then down to Warwick, Cotswolds, Bath and back to London?

Long trip, if as I think that's Bank Holiday week it'll be very
congested in parts (around Birmingham and Manchester), but it's
do-able. Perhaps St Andrews is a bit too much though. Even if you were
into hiking I'd say avoid the Lake District, beautiful but dreadfully
crowded at holiday times. I agree that Wales is well worth considering
for castles; there are 2 main areas
1) the south (Monmouthshire/Glamorgan); across the Severn Bridge from
England, along the M4 from London
2) the northwest; Conwy, Caernarfon etc.
If you're really into castles you'd be a fool not to go to Wales. I
agree with that other poster that the southern part is easily reached
from Bath/Cotswolds, far more so than say Cornwall.

There are also plenty of castles scattered around the north of England;
although Newcastle hasn't got much castle left it's worth visiting.


Edmund

Dan Stephenson

I've not visited all of the West Country, but I do know there is a ton
of things to see in Somerset alone. Bath & NE Somerset has, of course,
Bath with its Pulteney Bridge, the Abbey, the Roman bath ruins and the
generally nice architecture, but the rest of Somerseth as lots of
pretty rural areas. Glastonbury has the abbey ruins, and the cathedral
in Wells is awesome. The Cheddar Gorge is an excellent drive and the
village at the end of it is nice too. There is a nice reservoir there
called Chew Valley Lake. Bath makes a great home base... I stayed at a
place called St. Leonard's just south of Bath making it convenient for
day tripping. It's http://www.bath.org/hotel/stleon.htm .

I haven't gone farther west into Devon or Cornwall. Somerset is4-5
days alone. But if you go a little west and a little north, there are
other wonderful areas like the Cotswolds and villages like Lacock and
Castle Combe.

If really want to see Castle, you need to go to Wales. They have all
the best castles, particularly up in the northwest with Caenarvon,
Harlech, Conway and Beaumaris. Wales is also incredibly scenic, and
the Snowdownia area rivals the Scottish Highlands.

Note that York and Hadian's wall are quite far north.. you could visit
them on the way to/back from Scotland, but they're really out of the
way for the West Country.

Here is some stuff of mine that might help you decide:

From about 20 days in Britain at the start of a 3 mos "Grand Tour" of
Europe:

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Gra...n/Menu197.html

From a trip to Wales in the Fall of 2003:

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Wales2003/Menu206.html

and from a trip to Scotland in the Spring of 2004:

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Sco...4/Menu185.html

    > steve

Have a lot of fun!

--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from US Parks and all over Europe:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda

Dan Stephenson

Cannot resist...

In article <[email protected] .com>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > If you are going to be in the Cotswolds,

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/.Mo..._2003/Panos/St
MarysFairford.mov

    > you might want to consider
    > popping in to
    > Southeast Wales for a bit. Nice castle across the English border in
    > Chepstow,
    > and also in Raglan (my personal favorite).

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/.Mo..._2003/Panos/Ra
glanCastle.mov

    > Nearby Tintern Abbey is a
    > cool ruin.

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/.Mo..._2003/Panos/Ti
nternAbbey1.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/.Mo..._2003/Panos/Ti
nternAbbey2.mov

    > Caerphilly castles is a little bit further into Wales but
    > is well worth seeing.

http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/.../lst?.dir=/Gra
nd+Tour/Britain&.src=bc&.view=l&[email protected] t

    > Skenfrith, White and Grossmont castles


http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/.Mo..._2003/Panos/Sk
enfrithCastle.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/.Mo..._2003/Panos/Wh
iteCastle.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/.Mo..._2003/Panos/Gr
osmontCastle.mov

    > are also near the Welsh-English
    > border.

http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/.Mo..._2003/Panos/Wy
eValleySymondsYatRock.mov

--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from US Parks and all over Europe:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda