Stockholm & Glasgow
Jun 9th 2004, 9:18 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
Lennart Petersen wrote:
> And as in Stockholm the way is simply to ask, read the maps,try a guidebook
> or make some research on the net.
And my point is simply that if you choose the airport coach, you do not
need to do any of those things.
Obviously, you and jbk@piasystems think that it is worth asking people,
reading maps and doing research on the Internet, in order to save
something like 3 USD on transportation to the airport. Is it allowed for
other people to think differently?
As an example, I always use public transport when arriving in Moscow,
because the savings are humongous: public transport costs 50 cents, in
contrast to the 50 USD charged by taxi drivers, so I save 49.50 USD. I
think it is definitely worth it (although I know many people disagree,
and I think it´s perfectly fine that they do).
In the case of Stockholm, I don't think the added hassle of the SL route
is worth the small savings. I´m sorry if that upsets you.
Bjorn
> And as in Stockholm the way is simply to ask, read the maps,try a guidebook
> or make some research on the net.
And my point is simply that if you choose the airport coach, you do not
need to do any of those things.
Obviously, you and jbk@piasystems think that it is worth asking people,
reading maps and doing research on the Internet, in order to save
something like 3 USD on transportation to the airport. Is it allowed for
other people to think differently?
As an example, I always use public transport when arriving in Moscow,
because the savings are humongous: public transport costs 50 cents, in
contrast to the 50 USD charged by taxi drivers, so I save 49.50 USD. I
think it is definitely worth it (although I know many people disagree,
and I think it´s perfectly fine that they do).
In the case of Stockholm, I don't think the added hassle of the SL route
is worth the small savings. I´m sorry if that upsets you.
Bjorn
Jun 9th 2004, 9:27 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
[email protected] wrote:
>>>Only because you seem obsessed with claiming so. I don't speak
>>>Swedish and I found it quite simple.
>>I haven't said it is difficult, only that it is time-consuming.
>
>
> Oh, please! All the ranting about 43 different ticket options you
> need to choose from, hordes that you need to fight through etc, is not
> an attempt to make it sound ridiculously difficult? This is all
> completely false and only put forth in your lame attempt to somehow
> justify your conclusion. Pure and simple.
And your statement, for example, about the airport coach "leaving from
across the street" was not a lame attempt at making that route sound
more difficult than it is? If you have actually taken that route, you
_know_ that you reach the bus from the train station without going
outdoors or "crossing a street", in any commonly used meaning of the term.
>>> And there are more than a few
>>>people that like to save money when travelling.
>>I don not disagree that money can be saved by this route. In fact, I
>>have several times pointed out that it is a way of saving money.
>>> If they were doing a
>>>roundtrip back and forth from Arlanda, the difference could be quite
>>>substantial, especially when adding up all the other different ways
>>>one can save money while travelling with just a little investigation.
>>>Everyone in Sweden speaks English and all one has to do is ask to find
>>>out.
>>In contrast, finding the coach or the Arlanda express takes no asking
>>around whatosever, since both are very clearly signposted.
>
>
> Then, all those people I have heard asking how to get to the airport
> while I have been in the Central Station must have all been my active
> imagination then.
There are always people who can't read signs, no matter how obvious
these are, or prefer to ask someone anyway just to be sure.
>>> You insist on making the whole thing sound like a trip from hell
>>>if you are not a Swede, which is simply not the case.
>>I have not said that it is a trip from hell. I have said that you should
>>expect the whole process to take at least 1.5 hours, and that it is an
>>ordinary commuter train with the lack of luggage facilities normally
>>encountered on commuter trains.
>
>
> Baloney. I have never taken anywhere near 1.5 hours to get to the
> airport from the Central Station anytime.
So what? It has taken me at least 1.5 hour every time. (Counting, of
course, the total time, including purchase of ticket, finding the
platform, etc).
> And has already been
> pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
> trains, which everyone going to the airport does.
The airport coach and Arlanda express both have luggage space especially
designed for the convenience of airport-bound travellers with lots of
luggage. The commuter train has what commuter trains usually have: a hat
rack. The local bus has, as far as I remember, no luggage space
whatsoever, so unless you can find space on the floor (which you can't,
if the bus is full), you'll sit there with your lugagge in your lap.
> Your assertion is
> just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
> makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
I have never lived in Stockholm, but have frequently visited it as a
tourist. If you're not Swedish, I'm pretty sure I've visited it (as a
tourist) many more times than you have.
Bjorn
>>>Only because you seem obsessed with claiming so. I don't speak
>>>Swedish and I found it quite simple.
>>I haven't said it is difficult, only that it is time-consuming.
>
>
> Oh, please! All the ranting about 43 different ticket options you
> need to choose from, hordes that you need to fight through etc, is not
> an attempt to make it sound ridiculously difficult? This is all
> completely false and only put forth in your lame attempt to somehow
> justify your conclusion. Pure and simple.
And your statement, for example, about the airport coach "leaving from
across the street" was not a lame attempt at making that route sound
more difficult than it is? If you have actually taken that route, you
_know_ that you reach the bus from the train station without going
outdoors or "crossing a street", in any commonly used meaning of the term.
>>> And there are more than a few
>>>people that like to save money when travelling.
>>I don not disagree that money can be saved by this route. In fact, I
>>have several times pointed out that it is a way of saving money.
>>> If they were doing a
>>>roundtrip back and forth from Arlanda, the difference could be quite
>>>substantial, especially when adding up all the other different ways
>>>one can save money while travelling with just a little investigation.
>>>Everyone in Sweden speaks English and all one has to do is ask to find
>>>out.
>>In contrast, finding the coach or the Arlanda express takes no asking
>>around whatosever, since both are very clearly signposted.
>
>
> Then, all those people I have heard asking how to get to the airport
> while I have been in the Central Station must have all been my active
> imagination then.
There are always people who can't read signs, no matter how obvious
these are, or prefer to ask someone anyway just to be sure.
>>> You insist on making the whole thing sound like a trip from hell
>>>if you are not a Swede, which is simply not the case.
>>I have not said that it is a trip from hell. I have said that you should
>>expect the whole process to take at least 1.5 hours, and that it is an
>>ordinary commuter train with the lack of luggage facilities normally
>>encountered on commuter trains.
>
>
> Baloney. I have never taken anywhere near 1.5 hours to get to the
> airport from the Central Station anytime.
So what? It has taken me at least 1.5 hour every time. (Counting, of
course, the total time, including purchase of ticket, finding the
platform, etc).
> And has already been
> pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
> trains, which everyone going to the airport does.
The airport coach and Arlanda express both have luggage space especially
designed for the convenience of airport-bound travellers with lots of
luggage. The commuter train has what commuter trains usually have: a hat
rack. The local bus has, as far as I remember, no luggage space
whatsoever, so unless you can find space on the floor (which you can't,
if the bus is full), you'll sit there with your lugagge in your lap.
> Your assertion is
> just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
> makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
I have never lived in Stockholm, but have frequently visited it as a
tourist. If you're not Swedish, I'm pretty sure I've visited it (as a
tourist) many more times than you have.
Bjorn
Jun 9th 2004, 9:36 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
[email protected] wrote:
> In spite of all his obvious
> overexaggerations
Wow, not only have I excaggerated, but I have "overexcaggerated"!
Bjorn
> In spite of all his obvious
> overexaggerations
Wow, not only have I excaggerated, but I have "overexcaggerated"!
Bjorn
Jun 10th 2004, 12:51 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
Exactly. What tourist would not either have a tourist guide or visit
a tourist office to get the necessary information anyway? I have been
to Stockholm probably 50 times by now and I still pick up the
information when I arrive if for no other reason than to see what is
going on while I am there that I might be interested in. Also, and
this may just be me, but I have long since learned that there is a
local system and a tourist system (and you don't need to guess which
is the cheapest) in every country I have been in practically anywhere
in the world, so if you do a little investigation you can save
yourself a lot of money that adds up when you travel if you just do a
little planning.
>> Baloney. I have never taken anywhere near 1.5 hours to get to the
>> airport from the Central Station anytime. And has already been
>> pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
>> trains, which everyone going to the airport does. Your assertion is
>> just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
>> makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Well you're perfectly right.
>I've already being blamed for being too much expert on Stockholm so my
>opinion doesn't count.
>And naturally I know the steps in Stockholm ,what else after 41 years.
>But anyway I've found the way to a number of foreign airports.
>Counting 103,leaving 22 used for transit only I've managed to reach 81
>close to always by public transport and never found such problems described
>here.
> And as in Stockholm the way is simply to ask, read the maps,try a guidebook
>or make some research on the net. And the o.p (remember him ?) have done
>so, asked for advice in this n.g.
>So as a first-timer to Stockholm and Arlanda airport I should possibly try
>the airport information
>http://www.lfv.se/templates/LFV_Airp...____15990.aspx
>under "To&from" you'll find "bus" and "bus/commuter train" and there's
>also a link to the SL journey planner.
>To find the tracks at the Stockholm Central station is possibly a matter of
>a few minutes, ticket window is at the barrier to the platform and you've
>done all things in , say 5 minutes possibly the same time as needed to find
>the express train or the airport busses.
>Märsta is endstation you can't miss it and the bus is waiting in the row
>outside clear signed Arlanda airport, furthermore you'll see more people
>with luggage walking for the bus.
a tourist office to get the necessary information anyway? I have been
to Stockholm probably 50 times by now and I still pick up the
information when I arrive if for no other reason than to see what is
going on while I am there that I might be interested in. Also, and
this may just be me, but I have long since learned that there is a
local system and a tourist system (and you don't need to guess which
is the cheapest) in every country I have been in practically anywhere
in the world, so if you do a little investigation you can save
yourself a lot of money that adds up when you travel if you just do a
little planning.
>> Baloney. I have never taken anywhere near 1.5 hours to get to the
>> airport from the Central Station anytime. And has already been
>> pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
>> trains, which everyone going to the airport does. Your assertion is
>> just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
>> makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Well you're perfectly right.
>I've already being blamed for being too much expert on Stockholm so my
>opinion doesn't count.
>And naturally I know the steps in Stockholm ,what else after 41 years.
>But anyway I've found the way to a number of foreign airports.
>Counting 103,leaving 22 used for transit only I've managed to reach 81
>close to always by public transport and never found such problems described
>here.
> And as in Stockholm the way is simply to ask, read the maps,try a guidebook
>or make some research on the net. And the o.p (remember him ?) have done
>so, asked for advice in this n.g.
>So as a first-timer to Stockholm and Arlanda airport I should possibly try
>the airport information
>http://www.lfv.se/templates/LFV_Airp...____15990.aspx
>under "To&from" you'll find "bus" and "bus/commuter train" and there's
>also a link to the SL journey planner.
>To find the tracks at the Stockholm Central station is possibly a matter of
>a few minutes, ticket window is at the barrier to the platform and you've
>done all things in , say 5 minutes possibly the same time as needed to find
>the express train or the airport busses.
>Märsta is endstation you can't miss it and the bus is waiting in the row
>outside clear signed Arlanda airport, furthermore you'll see more people
>with luggage walking for the bus.
Jun 10th 2004, 12:58 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
A. it's not saving 3 USD but more like 13 USD if you buy a
rabatkuponger and do a round trip.
B. it is even more if you are connecting at the Central Station on
either the Pendeltag or T Bana (and how many stay at the Central
Station?) since you can continue on both using the rabatkuponger for
up to an hour and a half (and really up to 30 minutes longer if the
person stamping your rabatkuponger puts his clock ahead as they
usually do). If you use the airport coach you would have to pay about
23 USD roundtrip PLUS either a Pendtag or T Bana (or red bus for that
matter) on top of the airport coach ticket, so the savings could well
be more like 25 or 26 USD. As usual with your posting, you exaggerate
on the high side for tickets choices and people (43 and hordes to use
your words) and well on the low side when you talk about savings.
C. the added hassle, is baloney as I have pointed out many times. It
is insignificant and you simply demean your arguments by such silly
exaggerations as these.
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:18:13 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Lennart Petersen wrote:
>> And as in Stockholm the way is simply to ask, read the maps,try a guidebook
>> or make some research on the net.
>And my point is simply that if you choose the airport coach, you do not
>need to do any of those things.
>Obviously, you and jbk@piasystems think that it is worth asking people,
>reading maps and doing research on the Internet, in order to save
>something like 3 USD on transportation to the airport. Is it allowed for
>other people to think differently?
>As an example, I always use public transport when arriving in Moscow,
>because the savings are humongous: public transport costs 50 cents, in
>contrast to the 50 USD charged by taxi drivers, so I save 49.50 USD. I
>think it is definitely worth it (although I know many people disagree,
>and I think it´s perfectly fine that they do).
>In the case of Stockholm, I don't think the added hassle of the SL route
> is worth the small savings. I´m sorry if that upsets you.
>Bjorn
rabatkuponger and do a round trip.
B. it is even more if you are connecting at the Central Station on
either the Pendeltag or T Bana (and how many stay at the Central
Station?) since you can continue on both using the rabatkuponger for
up to an hour and a half (and really up to 30 minutes longer if the
person stamping your rabatkuponger puts his clock ahead as they
usually do). If you use the airport coach you would have to pay about
23 USD roundtrip PLUS either a Pendtag or T Bana (or red bus for that
matter) on top of the airport coach ticket, so the savings could well
be more like 25 or 26 USD. As usual with your posting, you exaggerate
on the high side for tickets choices and people (43 and hordes to use
your words) and well on the low side when you talk about savings.
C. the added hassle, is baloney as I have pointed out many times. It
is insignificant and you simply demean your arguments by such silly
exaggerations as these.
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:18:13 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Lennart Petersen wrote:
>> And as in Stockholm the way is simply to ask, read the maps,try a guidebook
>> or make some research on the net.
>And my point is simply that if you choose the airport coach, you do not
>need to do any of those things.
>Obviously, you and jbk@piasystems think that it is worth asking people,
>reading maps and doing research on the Internet, in order to save
>something like 3 USD on transportation to the airport. Is it allowed for
>other people to think differently?
>As an example, I always use public transport when arriving in Moscow,
>because the savings are humongous: public transport costs 50 cents, in
>contrast to the 50 USD charged by taxi drivers, so I save 49.50 USD. I
>think it is definitely worth it (although I know many people disagree,
>and I think it´s perfectly fine that they do).
>In the case of Stockholm, I don't think the added hassle of the SL route
> is worth the small savings. I´m sorry if that upsets you.
>Bjorn
Jun 10th 2004, 1:03 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:27:44 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>>>>Only because you seem obsessed with claiming so. I don't speak
>>>>Swedish and I found it quite simple.
>>>I haven't said it is difficult, only that it is time-consuming.
>>
>>
>> Oh, please! All the ranting about 43 different ticket options you
>> need to choose from, hordes that you need to fight through etc, is not
>> an attempt to make it sound ridiculously difficult? This is all
>> completely false and only put forth in your lame attempt to somehow
>> justify your conclusion. Pure and simple.
>And your statement, for example, about the airport coach "leaving from
>across the street" was not a lame attempt at making that route sound
>more difficult than it is? If you have actually taken that route, you
>_know_ that you reach the bus from the train station without going
>outdoors or "crossing a street", in any commonly used meaning of the term.
Yes, indeed. It is no more or less than a hassle than taking the
train and bus, except to someone like you trying to totally exaggerate
the situation.
>>>> And there are more than a few
>>>>people that like to save money when travelling.
>>>I don not disagree that money can be saved by this route. In fact, I
>>>have several times pointed out that it is a way of saving money.
>>>> If they were doing a
>>>>roundtrip back and forth from Arlanda, the difference could be quite
>>>>substantial, especially when adding up all the other different ways
>>>>one can save money while travelling with just a little investigation.
>>>>Everyone in Sweden speaks English and all one has to do is ask to find
>>>>out.
>>>In contrast, finding the coach or the Arlanda express takes no asking
>>>around whatosever, since both are very clearly signposted.
>>
>>
>> Then, all those people I have heard asking how to get to the airport
>> while I have been in the Central Station must have all been my active
>> imagination then.
>There are always people who can't read signs, no matter how obvious
>these are, or prefer to ask someone anyway just to be sure.
Virtually every tourist I have ever seen.
>>>> You insist on making the whole thing sound like a trip from hell
>>>>if you are not a Swede, which is simply not the case.
>>>I have not said that it is a trip from hell. I have said that you should
>>>expect the whole process to take at least 1.5 hours, and that it is an
>>>ordinary commuter train with the lack of luggage facilities normally
>>>encountered on commuter trains.
>>
>>
>> Baloney. I have never taken anywhere near 1.5 hours to get to the
>> airport from the Central Station anytime.
>So what? It has taken me at least 1.5 hour every time. (Counting, of
>course, the total time, including purchase of ticket, finding the
>platform, etc).
Tying your shoes, getting a korv, etc. etc. Funny neither Lennart nor
I have this problem isn't it?
>> And has already been
>> pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
>> trains, which everyone going to the airport does.
>The airport coach and Arlanda express both have luggage space especially
>designed for the convenience of airport-bound travellers with lots of
>luggage. The commuter train has what commuter trains usually have: a hat
>rack. The local bus has, as far as I remember, no luggage space
>whatsoever, so unless you can find space on the floor (which you can't,
>if the bus is full), you'll sit there with your lugagge in your lap.
>> Your assertion is
>> just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
>> makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
>I have never lived in Stockholm, but have frequently visited it as a
>tourist. If you're not Swedish, I'm pretty sure I've visited it (as a
>tourist) many more times than you have.
Which makes your assertions even more silly, when I, as a non-Swedish
speaking foreign tourist (which is completely irrelevant since all
Swedes speak English anyway) has no trouble finding my way with all
the services available to do so while you as a Swede apparently do.
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>>>>Only because you seem obsessed with claiming so. I don't speak
>>>>Swedish and I found it quite simple.
>>>I haven't said it is difficult, only that it is time-consuming.
>>
>>
>> Oh, please! All the ranting about 43 different ticket options you
>> need to choose from, hordes that you need to fight through etc, is not
>> an attempt to make it sound ridiculously difficult? This is all
>> completely false and only put forth in your lame attempt to somehow
>> justify your conclusion. Pure and simple.
>And your statement, for example, about the airport coach "leaving from
>across the street" was not a lame attempt at making that route sound
>more difficult than it is? If you have actually taken that route, you
>_know_ that you reach the bus from the train station without going
>outdoors or "crossing a street", in any commonly used meaning of the term.
Yes, indeed. It is no more or less than a hassle than taking the
train and bus, except to someone like you trying to totally exaggerate
the situation.
>>>> And there are more than a few
>>>>people that like to save money when travelling.
>>>I don not disagree that money can be saved by this route. In fact, I
>>>have several times pointed out that it is a way of saving money.
>>>> If they were doing a
>>>>roundtrip back and forth from Arlanda, the difference could be quite
>>>>substantial, especially when adding up all the other different ways
>>>>one can save money while travelling with just a little investigation.
>>>>Everyone in Sweden speaks English and all one has to do is ask to find
>>>>out.
>>>In contrast, finding the coach or the Arlanda express takes no asking
>>>around whatosever, since both are very clearly signposted.
>>
>>
>> Then, all those people I have heard asking how to get to the airport
>> while I have been in the Central Station must have all been my active
>> imagination then.
>There are always people who can't read signs, no matter how obvious
>these are, or prefer to ask someone anyway just to be sure.
Virtually every tourist I have ever seen.
>>>> You insist on making the whole thing sound like a trip from hell
>>>>if you are not a Swede, which is simply not the case.
>>>I have not said that it is a trip from hell. I have said that you should
>>>expect the whole process to take at least 1.5 hours, and that it is an
>>>ordinary commuter train with the lack of luggage facilities normally
>>>encountered on commuter trains.
>>
>>
>> Baloney. I have never taken anywhere near 1.5 hours to get to the
>> airport from the Central Station anytime.
>So what? It has taken me at least 1.5 hour every time. (Counting, of
>course, the total time, including purchase of ticket, finding the
>platform, etc).
Tying your shoes, getting a korv, etc. etc. Funny neither Lennart nor
I have this problem isn't it?
>> And has already been
>> pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
>> trains, which everyone going to the airport does.
>The airport coach and Arlanda express both have luggage space especially
>designed for the convenience of airport-bound travellers with lots of
>luggage. The commuter train has what commuter trains usually have: a hat
>rack. The local bus has, as far as I remember, no luggage space
>whatsoever, so unless you can find space on the floor (which you can't,
>if the bus is full), you'll sit there with your lugagge in your lap.
>> Your assertion is
>> just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
>> makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
>I have never lived in Stockholm, but have frequently visited it as a
>tourist. If you're not Swedish, I'm pretty sure I've visited it (as a
>tourist) many more times than you have.
Which makes your assertions even more silly, when I, as a non-Swedish
speaking foreign tourist (which is completely irrelevant since all
Swedes speak English anyway) has no trouble finding my way with all
the services available to do so while you as a Swede apparently do.
Jun 10th 2004, 1:05 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:36:15 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> In spite of all his obvious
>> overexaggerations
>Wow, not only have I excaggerated, but I have "overexcaggerated"!
>Bjorn
If you insist on being a complete simpleton, why can't you at least
spell the word as I did above instead of trying to be a petty
spellchecker at which you obviously have no talent?
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> In spite of all his obvious
>> overexaggerations
>Wow, not only have I excaggerated, but I have "overexcaggerated"!
>Bjorn
If you insist on being a complete simpleton, why can't you at least
spell the word as I did above instead of trying to be a petty
spellchecker at which you obviously have no talent?
Jun 10th 2004, 2:44 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
[email protected] wrote:
> Exactly. What tourist would not either have a tourist guide or visit
> a tourist office to get the necessary information anyway?
In this case, the vast majority of tourists simply take the airport
coach, and do not bother with the commuter train.
> I have been
> to Stockholm probably 50 times by now and I still pick up the
> information when I arrive if for no other reason than to see what is
> going on while I am there that I might be interested in.
Good for you. Many people are, however, not so interested in searching
through various amounts of information in order to figure out how to use
the local transportation system. They are quite happy with simply
following the signs with the little airplane, showing the way to the
airport coach.
> Also, and
> this may just be me, but I have long since learned that there is a
> local system and a tourist system (and you don't need to guess which
> is the cheapest) in every country I have been in practically anywhere
> in the world, so if you do a little investigation you can save
> yourself a lot of money that adds up when you travel if you just do a
> little planning.
Again, good for you. Many people prefer to spend less time planning, and
more time on sightseeing. I'm sorry if that upsets you.
I guess you weren't paying attention, but I did several times agree that
the commuter train and local bus combination _is_ a good option for
people who have a strong interest in saving money.
Bjorn
> Exactly. What tourist would not either have a tourist guide or visit
> a tourist office to get the necessary information anyway?
In this case, the vast majority of tourists simply take the airport
coach, and do not bother with the commuter train.
> I have been
> to Stockholm probably 50 times by now and I still pick up the
> information when I arrive if for no other reason than to see what is
> going on while I am there that I might be interested in.
Good for you. Many people are, however, not so interested in searching
through various amounts of information in order to figure out how to use
the local transportation system. They are quite happy with simply
following the signs with the little airplane, showing the way to the
airport coach.
> Also, and
> this may just be me, but I have long since learned that there is a
> local system and a tourist system (and you don't need to guess which
> is the cheapest) in every country I have been in practically anywhere
> in the world, so if you do a little investigation you can save
> yourself a lot of money that adds up when you travel if you just do a
> little planning.
Again, good for you. Many people prefer to spend less time planning, and
more time on sightseeing. I'm sorry if that upsets you.
I guess you weren't paying attention, but I did several times agree that
the commuter train and local bus combination _is_ a good option for
people who have a strong interest in saving money.
Bjorn
Jun 10th 2004, 3:14 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
[email protected] wrote:
> A. it's not saving 3 USD but more like 13 USD if you buy a
> rabatkuponger and do a round trip.
See price comparison below. In short, coupons will cost 145 SEK, while a
coach roundtrip ticket costs 170, so the saving is 25 SEK, i.e. about 3 USD.
Many people happily pay 3 USD for the added comfort, speed, and
simplicity of an airport coach, in comparison with a combination of
local bus and commuter train. I'm one of those people. Sorry if that
upsets you.
> B. it is even more if you are connecting at the Central Station on
> either the Pendeltag or T Bana (and how many stay at the Central
> Station?) since you can continue on both using the rabatkuponger for
> up to an hour and a half (and really up to 30 minutes longer if the
> person stamping your rabatkuponger puts his clock ahead as they
> usually do). If you use the airport coach you would have to pay about
> 23 USD roundtrip PLUS either a Pendtag or T Bana (or red bus for that
> matter) on top of the airport coach ticket, so the savings could well
> be more like 25 or 26 USD. As usual with your posting, you exaggerate
> on the high side for tickets choices and people (43 and hordes to use
> your words) and well on the low side when you talk about savings.
Whilst accusing me of excaggerating, you are yourself excaggerating by
giving incorrect ticket prices and using flawed maths. The roundtrip
price for the airport coach is 22 USD (170 SEK = 22 USD, according to
www.forex.se 10 june 2004), not 23 as you stated. The price for 12 SL
coupons (which is what you need for a roundtrip to Arlanda) is 180 SEK,
which is actually more than for the coach, but you can of course
reduce that by buying a strip of 20 coupons for 145 SEK. Still, the
saving is a mere 3 USD (22-19).
Now, you may argue that you might make additional savings by using the
same coupons while travelling around Stockholm, but firstly that only
applies to travellers who actually have a need for that; secondly the
saving can never be 25-26 USD, unless flawed math is used; thirdly the
Flygbussarna offer combination tickets where you get the ride on the
airport coach PLUS unlimited travel with SL in central Stockholm (zone
1) for a whole day for only 115 SEK.
> C. the added hassle, is baloney as I have pointed out many times. It
> is insignificant and you simply demean your arguments by such silly
> exaggerations as these.
You seem very fond of the word "baloney". It is, of course, very
convenient to repeat that word instead of formulating arguments
supporting your opinion. The drawback is that it makes the discussion
rather pointless and boring, and that it gives the impression that your
arguments are somewhat lacking.
And you should stop top-posting (see the FAQ).
Bjorn
> A. it's not saving 3 USD but more like 13 USD if you buy a
> rabatkuponger and do a round trip.
See price comparison below. In short, coupons will cost 145 SEK, while a
coach roundtrip ticket costs 170, so the saving is 25 SEK, i.e. about 3 USD.
Many people happily pay 3 USD for the added comfort, speed, and
simplicity of an airport coach, in comparison with a combination of
local bus and commuter train. I'm one of those people. Sorry if that
upsets you.
> B. it is even more if you are connecting at the Central Station on
> either the Pendeltag or T Bana (and how many stay at the Central
> Station?) since you can continue on both using the rabatkuponger for
> up to an hour and a half (and really up to 30 minutes longer if the
> person stamping your rabatkuponger puts his clock ahead as they
> usually do). If you use the airport coach you would have to pay about
> 23 USD roundtrip PLUS either a Pendtag or T Bana (or red bus for that
> matter) on top of the airport coach ticket, so the savings could well
> be more like 25 or 26 USD. As usual with your posting, you exaggerate
> on the high side for tickets choices and people (43 and hordes to use
> your words) and well on the low side when you talk about savings.
Whilst accusing me of excaggerating, you are yourself excaggerating by
giving incorrect ticket prices and using flawed maths. The roundtrip
price for the airport coach is 22 USD (170 SEK = 22 USD, according to
www.forex.se 10 june 2004), not 23 as you stated. The price for 12 SL
coupons (which is what you need for a roundtrip to Arlanda) is 180 SEK,
which is actually more than for the coach, but you can of course
reduce that by buying a strip of 20 coupons for 145 SEK. Still, the
saving is a mere 3 USD (22-19).
Now, you may argue that you might make additional savings by using the
same coupons while travelling around Stockholm, but firstly that only
applies to travellers who actually have a need for that; secondly the
saving can never be 25-26 USD, unless flawed math is used; thirdly the
Flygbussarna offer combination tickets where you get the ride on the
airport coach PLUS unlimited travel with SL in central Stockholm (zone
1) for a whole day for only 115 SEK.
> C. the added hassle, is baloney as I have pointed out many times. It
> is insignificant and you simply demean your arguments by such silly
> exaggerations as these.
You seem very fond of the word "baloney". It is, of course, very
convenient to repeat that word instead of formulating arguments
supporting your opinion. The drawback is that it makes the discussion
rather pointless and boring, and that it gives the impression that your
arguments are somewhat lacking.
And you should stop top-posting (see the FAQ).
Bjorn
Jun 10th 2004, 3:32 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:36:15 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>In spite of all his obvious
>>>overexaggerations
>>Wow, not only have I excaggerated, but I have "overexcaggerated"!
>>Bjorn
>
>
> If you insist on being a complete simpleton, why can't you at least
> spell the word as I did above instead of trying to be a petty
> spellchecker at which you obviously have no talent?
What a silly accusation. I think it deserves to have a name:
Meta-spellflame: Flaming a post by accusing the poster of spellflaming.
Bjorn
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:36:15 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>In spite of all his obvious
>>>overexaggerations
>>Wow, not only have I excaggerated, but I have "overexcaggerated"!
>>Bjorn
>
>
> If you insist on being a complete simpleton, why can't you at least
> spell the word as I did above instead of trying to be a petty
> spellchecker at which you obviously have no talent?
What a silly accusation. I think it deserves to have a name:
Meta-spellflame: Flaming a post by accusing the poster of spellflaming.
Bjorn
Jun 10th 2004, 5:26 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:27:44 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>>>Only because you seem obsessed with claiming so. I don't speak
>>>>>Swedish and I found it quite simple.
>>>>I haven't said it is difficult, only that it is time-consuming.
>>>Oh, please! All the ranting about 43 different ticket options you
>>>need to choose from, hordes that you need to fight through etc, is not
>>>an attempt to make it sound ridiculously difficult? This is all
>>>completely false and only put forth in your lame attempt to somehow
>>>justify your conclusion. Pure and simple.
>>And your statement, for example, about the airport coach "leaving from
>>across the street" was not a lame attempt at making that route sound
>>more difficult than it is? If you have actually taken that route, you
>>_know_ that you reach the bus from the train station without going
>>outdoors or "crossing a street", in any commonly used meaning of the term.
>
>
> Yes, indeed. It is no more or less than a hassle than taking the
> train and bus, except to someone like you trying to totally exaggerate
> the situation.
I am not exaggerating any more or less than you are.
>>>>>And there are more than a few
>>>>>people that like to save money when travelling.
>>>>I don not disagree that money can be saved by this route. In fact, I
>>>>have several times pointed out that it is a way of saving money.
>>>>>If they were doing a
>>>>>roundtrip back and forth from Arlanda, the difference could be quite
>>>>>substantial, especially when adding up all the other different ways
>>>>>one can save money while travelling with just a little investigation.
>>>>>Everyone in Sweden speaks English and all one has to do is ask to find
>>>>>out.
>>>>In contrast, finding the coach or the Arlanda express takes no asking
>>>>around whatosever, since both are very clearly signposted.
>>>Then, all those people I have heard asking how to get to the airport
>>>while I have been in the Central Station must have all been my active
>>>imagination then.
>>There are always people who can't read signs, no matter how obvious
>>these are, or prefer to ask someone anyway just to be sure.
>
>
> Virtually every tourist I have ever seen.
What?
>>>>>You insist on making the whole thing sound like a trip from hell
>>>>>if you are not a Swede, which is simply not the case.
>>>>I have not said that it is a trip from hell. I have said that you should
>>>>expect the whole process to take at least 1.5 hours, and that it is an
>>>>ordinary commuter train with the lack of luggage facilities normally
>>>>encountered on commuter trains.
>>>Baloney. I have never taken anywhere near 1.5 hours to get to the
>>>airport from the Central Station anytime.
>>So what? It has taken me at least 1.5 hour every time. (Counting, of
>>course, the total time, including purchase of ticket, finding the
>>platform, etc).
>
>
> Tying your shoes, getting a korv, etc. etc.
No, just figuring out how and where to get tickets, getting the tickets,
finding and getting to the platform, waiting for the train, and changing
at Marsta. Those things plus the actual travel time adds up, in my
humble experience, to 1.5 hours.
> Funny neither Lennart nor
> I have this problem isn't it?
Both you and Lennart are talking about a situation where you already
have all the information and have taken this route several times before.
I am talking about the situation our OP will be in, who is visiting
Stockholm for the first time and have never travelled this route.
>>>And has already been
>>>pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
>>>trains, which everyone going to the airport does.
>>The airport coach and Arlanda express both have luggage space especially
>>designed for the convenience of airport-bound travellers with lots of
>>luggage. The commuter train has what commuter trains usually have: a hat
>>rack. The local bus has, as far as I remember, no luggage space
>>whatsoever, so unless you can find space on the floor (which you can't,
>>if the bus is full), you'll sit there with your lugagge in your lap.
>>> Your assertion is
>>>just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
>>>makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
>>I have never lived in Stockholm, but have frequently visited it as a
>>tourist. If you're not Swedish, I'm pretty sure I've visited it (as a
>>tourist) many more times than you have.
>
>
> Which makes your assertions even more silly, when I, as a non-Swedish
> speaking foreign tourist (which is completely irrelevant since all
> Swedes speak English anyway)
No, it is not completely irrelevant. Swedes can read and comprehend
signs saying things like "Pendeltag" and they generally know the meaning
of abbreviations such as "SL", "SJ", "T", or "J", which are
incomprehensible to foreign tourists, who consequently have to ask
around. Of course, asking around is not a big deal and does not take a
large amount of time, but it does slow things down somewhat. I have
never claimed that the difference is huge, but have simply pointed out
the undeniable fact that it exists, and that many people are perfectly
happy paying 3 USD extra to alleviate these little inconveniences.
> has no trouble finding my way with all
> the services available to do so while you as a Swede apparently do.
I have not had "trouble" finding the way along the SL route, but I have
consistenly found that that route takes somewhat longer and is somewhat
less convenient than the airport coach. The popularity of the coach
indicates that I'm not the only one. Sorry if my disagreeing with you is
somehow upsetting to you.
Bjorn
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:27:44 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>>>Only because you seem obsessed with claiming so. I don't speak
>>>>>Swedish and I found it quite simple.
>>>>I haven't said it is difficult, only that it is time-consuming.
>>>Oh, please! All the ranting about 43 different ticket options you
>>>need to choose from, hordes that you need to fight through etc, is not
>>>an attempt to make it sound ridiculously difficult? This is all
>>>completely false and only put forth in your lame attempt to somehow
>>>justify your conclusion. Pure and simple.
>>And your statement, for example, about the airport coach "leaving from
>>across the street" was not a lame attempt at making that route sound
>>more difficult than it is? If you have actually taken that route, you
>>_know_ that you reach the bus from the train station without going
>>outdoors or "crossing a street", in any commonly used meaning of the term.
>
>
> Yes, indeed. It is no more or less than a hassle than taking the
> train and bus, except to someone like you trying to totally exaggerate
> the situation.
I am not exaggerating any more or less than you are.
>>>>>And there are more than a few
>>>>>people that like to save money when travelling.
>>>>I don not disagree that money can be saved by this route. In fact, I
>>>>have several times pointed out that it is a way of saving money.
>>>>>If they were doing a
>>>>>roundtrip back and forth from Arlanda, the difference could be quite
>>>>>substantial, especially when adding up all the other different ways
>>>>>one can save money while travelling with just a little investigation.
>>>>>Everyone in Sweden speaks English and all one has to do is ask to find
>>>>>out.
>>>>In contrast, finding the coach or the Arlanda express takes no asking
>>>>around whatosever, since both are very clearly signposted.
>>>Then, all those people I have heard asking how to get to the airport
>>>while I have been in the Central Station must have all been my active
>>>imagination then.
>>There are always people who can't read signs, no matter how obvious
>>these are, or prefer to ask someone anyway just to be sure.
>
>
> Virtually every tourist I have ever seen.
What?
>>>>>You insist on making the whole thing sound like a trip from hell
>>>>>if you are not a Swede, which is simply not the case.
>>>>I have not said that it is a trip from hell. I have said that you should
>>>>expect the whole process to take at least 1.5 hours, and that it is an
>>>>ordinary commuter train with the lack of luggage facilities normally
>>>>encountered on commuter trains.
>>>Baloney. I have never taken anywhere near 1.5 hours to get to the
>>>airport from the Central Station anytime.
>>So what? It has taken me at least 1.5 hour every time. (Counting, of
>>course, the total time, including purchase of ticket, finding the
>>platform, etc).
>
>
> Tying your shoes, getting a korv, etc. etc.
No, just figuring out how and where to get tickets, getting the tickets,
finding and getting to the platform, waiting for the train, and changing
at Marsta. Those things plus the actual travel time adds up, in my
humble experience, to 1.5 hours.
> Funny neither Lennart nor
> I have this problem isn't it?
Both you and Lennart are talking about a situation where you already
have all the information and have taken this route several times before.
I am talking about the situation our OP will be in, who is visiting
Stockholm for the first time and have never travelled this route.
>>>And has already been
>>>pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
>>>trains, which everyone going to the airport does.
>>The airport coach and Arlanda express both have luggage space especially
>>designed for the convenience of airport-bound travellers with lots of
>>luggage. The commuter train has what commuter trains usually have: a hat
>>rack. The local bus has, as far as I remember, no luggage space
>>whatsoever, so unless you can find space on the floor (which you can't,
>>if the bus is full), you'll sit there with your lugagge in your lap.
>>> Your assertion is
>>>just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
>>>makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
>>I have never lived in Stockholm, but have frequently visited it as a
>>tourist. If you're not Swedish, I'm pretty sure I've visited it (as a
>>tourist) many more times than you have.
>
>
> Which makes your assertions even more silly, when I, as a non-Swedish
> speaking foreign tourist (which is completely irrelevant since all
> Swedes speak English anyway)
No, it is not completely irrelevant. Swedes can read and comprehend
signs saying things like "Pendeltag" and they generally know the meaning
of abbreviations such as "SL", "SJ", "T", or "J", which are
incomprehensible to foreign tourists, who consequently have to ask
around. Of course, asking around is not a big deal and does not take a
large amount of time, but it does slow things down somewhat. I have
never claimed that the difference is huge, but have simply pointed out
the undeniable fact that it exists, and that many people are perfectly
happy paying 3 USD extra to alleviate these little inconveniences.
> has no trouble finding my way with all
> the services available to do so while you as a Swede apparently do.
I have not had "trouble" finding the way along the SL route, but I have
consistenly found that that route takes somewhat longer and is somewhat
less convenient than the airport coach. The popularity of the coach
indicates that I'm not the only one. Sorry if my disagreeing with you is
somehow upsetting to you.
Bjorn
Jun 10th 2004, 7:44 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:14:29 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> A. it's not saving 3 USD but more like 13 USD if you buy a
>> rabatkuponger and do a round trip.
>See price comparison below. In short, coupons will cost 145 SEK, while a
>coach roundtrip ticket costs 170, so the saving is 25 SEK, i.e. about 3 USD.
>Many people happily pay 3 USD for the added comfort, speed, and
>simplicity of an airport coach, in comparison with a combination of
>local bus and commuter train. I'm one of those people. Sorry if that
>upsets you.
Completely ridiculous as anyone who knows anything knows. Sure, the
rabatkuponger costs 145 krona BUT as I said, you can also use it for
other transportation. From Arlanda to the Central Station and beyond
for 1.5 hiours uses 5 of the 20 stamps you have on the rabatkuponger
with the roundtrip costing the same leaving you 10 other to use around
Stockholm which, for the most part, use two each time for a one hour
period, giving one up to 5 more trips ON TOP OF the airport journey.
Only you, apparently, would be so silly as to throw the rest away
instead of simply buying a trip on the bus and Pendeltag one way each
way. All you are proving with your constant drivel and ridiculous
comparisons like this is to prove that liars use statistics.
>> B. it is even more if you are connecting at the Central Station on
>> either the Pendeltag or T Bana (and how many stay at the Central
>> Station?) since you can continue on both using the rabatkuponger for
>> up to an hour and a half (and really up to 30 minutes longer if the
>> person stamping your rabatkuponger puts his clock ahead as they
>> usually do). If you use the airport coach you would have to pay about
>> 23 USD roundtrip PLUS either a Pendtag or T Bana (or red bus for that
>> matter) on top of the airport coach ticket, so the savings could well
>> be more like 25 or 26 USD. As usual with your posting, you exaggerate
>> on the high side for tickets choices and people (43 and hordes to use
>> your words) and well on the low side when you talk about savings.
>Whilst accusing me of excaggerating, you are yourself excaggerating by
>giving incorrect ticket prices and using flawed maths. The roundtrip
>price for the airport coach is 22 USD (170 SEK = 22 USD, according to
>www.forex.se 10 june 2004), not 23 as you stated. The price for 12 SL
>coupons (which is what you need for a roundtrip to Arlanda) is 180 SEK,
> which is actually more than for the coach, but you can of course
>reduce that by buying a strip of 20 coupons for 145 SEK. Still, the
>saving is a mere 3 USD (22-19).
You are a complete moron and know nothing about what you are talking
about. I just took this trip a little over a week ago and it works
exactly like I stated above. 22 dollars, 23 dollars a mere exchange
difference which only a complete anal retentive moron like you would
even bother to comment on, simply proving your complete ignorance.
See above before you continue to make a complete fool out of yourself
once again on your own country. I just did exactly what I described
above exactly that way so I know exactly what it costs and how it
works ace.
>Now, you may argue that you might make additional savings by using the
>same coupons while travelling around Stockholm, but firstly that only
>applies to travellers who actually have a need for that; secondly the
>saving can never be 25-26 USD, unless flawed math is used; thirdly the
>Flygbussarna offer combination tickets where you get the ride on the
>airport coach PLUS unlimited travel with SL in central Stockholm (zone
>1) for a whole day for only 115 SEK.
Where is this shown? I just checked their site and nothing is said
about this. Prove it. Plus zone 1 is a small part of central
Stockholm, whereas what I proposed covers ALL zones. Plus, at that
price, it is only one way if it exists at all. And how many
travellers stay at the Central Station?
>> C. the added hassle, is baloney as I have pointed out many times. It
>> is insignificant and you simply demean your arguments by such silly
>> exaggerations as these.
>You seem very fond of the word "baloney". It is, of course, very
>convenient to repeat that word instead of formulating arguments
>supporting your opinion. The drawback is that it makes the discussion
>rather pointless and boring, and that it gives the impression that your
>arguments are somewhat lacking.
What is pointless and boring are your non-ending stupid assertions and
distortions which you continue to blather on about while a fellow
Swede who actually lives in Stockholm (unlike you) and knows what he
is talking about (unlike you) has said several times that I am right
and you are full of it, which is really why you continue this stupid
set of distortions, half truths, etc.
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> A. it's not saving 3 USD but more like 13 USD if you buy a
>> rabatkuponger and do a round trip.
>See price comparison below. In short, coupons will cost 145 SEK, while a
>coach roundtrip ticket costs 170, so the saving is 25 SEK, i.e. about 3 USD.
>Many people happily pay 3 USD for the added comfort, speed, and
>simplicity of an airport coach, in comparison with a combination of
>local bus and commuter train. I'm one of those people. Sorry if that
>upsets you.
Completely ridiculous as anyone who knows anything knows. Sure, the
rabatkuponger costs 145 krona BUT as I said, you can also use it for
other transportation. From Arlanda to the Central Station and beyond
for 1.5 hiours uses 5 of the 20 stamps you have on the rabatkuponger
with the roundtrip costing the same leaving you 10 other to use around
Stockholm which, for the most part, use two each time for a one hour
period, giving one up to 5 more trips ON TOP OF the airport journey.
Only you, apparently, would be so silly as to throw the rest away
instead of simply buying a trip on the bus and Pendeltag one way each
way. All you are proving with your constant drivel and ridiculous
comparisons like this is to prove that liars use statistics.
>> B. it is even more if you are connecting at the Central Station on
>> either the Pendeltag or T Bana (and how many stay at the Central
>> Station?) since you can continue on both using the rabatkuponger for
>> up to an hour and a half (and really up to 30 minutes longer if the
>> person stamping your rabatkuponger puts his clock ahead as they
>> usually do). If you use the airport coach you would have to pay about
>> 23 USD roundtrip PLUS either a Pendtag or T Bana (or red bus for that
>> matter) on top of the airport coach ticket, so the savings could well
>> be more like 25 or 26 USD. As usual with your posting, you exaggerate
>> on the high side for tickets choices and people (43 and hordes to use
>> your words) and well on the low side when you talk about savings.
>Whilst accusing me of excaggerating, you are yourself excaggerating by
>giving incorrect ticket prices and using flawed maths. The roundtrip
>price for the airport coach is 22 USD (170 SEK = 22 USD, according to
>www.forex.se 10 june 2004), not 23 as you stated. The price for 12 SL
>coupons (which is what you need for a roundtrip to Arlanda) is 180 SEK,
> which is actually more than for the coach, but you can of course
>reduce that by buying a strip of 20 coupons for 145 SEK. Still, the
>saving is a mere 3 USD (22-19).
You are a complete moron and know nothing about what you are talking
about. I just took this trip a little over a week ago and it works
exactly like I stated above. 22 dollars, 23 dollars a mere exchange
difference which only a complete anal retentive moron like you would
even bother to comment on, simply proving your complete ignorance.
See above before you continue to make a complete fool out of yourself
once again on your own country. I just did exactly what I described
above exactly that way so I know exactly what it costs and how it
works ace.
>Now, you may argue that you might make additional savings by using the
>same coupons while travelling around Stockholm, but firstly that only
>applies to travellers who actually have a need for that; secondly the
>saving can never be 25-26 USD, unless flawed math is used; thirdly the
>Flygbussarna offer combination tickets where you get the ride on the
>airport coach PLUS unlimited travel with SL in central Stockholm (zone
>1) for a whole day for only 115 SEK.
Where is this shown? I just checked their site and nothing is said
about this. Prove it. Plus zone 1 is a small part of central
Stockholm, whereas what I proposed covers ALL zones. Plus, at that
price, it is only one way if it exists at all. And how many
travellers stay at the Central Station?
>> C. the added hassle, is baloney as I have pointed out many times. It
>> is insignificant and you simply demean your arguments by such silly
>> exaggerations as these.
>You seem very fond of the word "baloney". It is, of course, very
>convenient to repeat that word instead of formulating arguments
>supporting your opinion. The drawback is that it makes the discussion
>rather pointless and boring, and that it gives the impression that your
>arguments are somewhat lacking.
What is pointless and boring are your non-ending stupid assertions and
distortions which you continue to blather on about while a fellow
Swede who actually lives in Stockholm (unlike you) and knows what he
is talking about (unlike you) has said several times that I am right
and you are full of it, which is really why you continue this stupid
set of distortions, half truths, etc.
Jun 10th 2004, 7:55 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
>>>So what? It has taken me at least 1.5 hour every time. (Counting, of
>>>course, the total time, including purchase of ticket, finding the
>>>platform, etc).
>>
>>
>> Tying your shoes, getting a korv, etc. etc.
>No, just figuring out how and where to get tickets, getting the tickets,
>finding and getting to the platform, waiting for the train, and changing
>at Marsta. Those things plus the actual travel time adds up, in my
>humble experience, to 1.5 hours.
Completely silly, as both Lennart and I have said several times now.
>> Funny neither Lennart nor
>> I have this problem isn't it?
>Both you and Lennart are talking about a situation where you already
>have all the information and have taken this route several times before.
>I am talking about the situation our OP will be in, who is visiting
>Stockholm for the first time and have never travelled this route.
Baloney. All you have to do is to go to the information office right
outside of customs and ask. Then they will point you to stop 15 for
the 583 bus to Marsta whereupon you simply follow the crowd to get
onto the Pendeltag and off at the Central Station if that is where you
are going. Rigt about 15 feet from where the airport bus goes I might
add.
>>>>And has already been
>>>>pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
>>>>trains, which everyone going to the airport does.
>>>The airport coach and Arlanda express both have luggage space especially
>>>designed for the convenience of airport-bound travellers with lots of
>>>luggage. The commuter train has what commuter trains usually have: a hat
>>>rack. The local bus has, as far as I remember, no luggage space
>>>whatsoever, so unless you can find space on the floor (which you can't,
>>>if the bus is full), you'll sit there with your lugagge in your lap.
>>>> Your assertion is
>>>>just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
>>>>makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
>>>I have never lived in Stockholm, but have frequently visited it as a
>>>tourist. If you're not Swedish, I'm pretty sure I've visited it (as a
>>>tourist) many more times than you have.
>>
>>
>> Which makes your assertions even more silly, when I, as a non-Swedish
>> speaking foreign tourist (which is completely irrelevant since all
>> Swedes speak English anyway)
>No, it is not completely irrelevant. Swedes can read and comprehend
>signs saying things like "Pendeltag" and they generally know the meaning
>of abbreviations such as "SL", "SJ", "T", or "J", which are
>incomprehensible to foreign tourists, who consequently have to ask
>around. Of course, asking around is not a big deal and does not take a
>large amount of time, but it does slow things down somewhat. I have
>never claimed that the difference is huge, but have simply pointed out
>the undeniable fact that it exists, and that many people are perfectly
>happy paying 3 USD extra to alleviate these little inconveniences.
Then why have I had Swedes who are not from Stockholm ask me where the
T Bana is then when the signs are right there then huh? And, as I
have pointed out many times, the difference is a lot more than the
silly 3 dollars you keep asserting.
>> has no trouble finding my way with all
>> the services available to do so while you as a Swede apparently do.
>I have not had "trouble" finding the way along the SL route, but I have
>consistenly found that that route takes somewhat longer and is somewhat
>less convenient than the airport coach. The popularity of the coach
>indicates that I'm not the only one. Sorry if my disagreeing with you is
>somehow upsetting to you.
A lot more people take the Pendeltag than the airport bus. Routinely,
so it is hardly less popular than the airport bus. Which among other
things is for fools that can't even ask the information office at the
airport for the cheapest route. At least two Pendeltag trains have to
pass you by each time you try for it to take you 1.5 hours, but by
know watching all your distortions doesn't surprise. And you hardly
upset me. I meet bullheaded fools all the time and generally ignore
them but post here so that (a) people can see your blather for what it
is and (b) can save themselves a significant amount of money if they
ignore what you say (see Lennart for corroboration)
>>>course, the total time, including purchase of ticket, finding the
>>>platform, etc).
>>
>>
>> Tying your shoes, getting a korv, etc. etc.
>No, just figuring out how and where to get tickets, getting the tickets,
>finding and getting to the platform, waiting for the train, and changing
>at Marsta. Those things plus the actual travel time adds up, in my
>humble experience, to 1.5 hours.
Completely silly, as both Lennart and I have said several times now.
>> Funny neither Lennart nor
>> I have this problem isn't it?
>Both you and Lennart are talking about a situation where you already
>have all the information and have taken this route several times before.
>I am talking about the situation our OP will be in, who is visiting
>Stockholm for the first time and have never travelled this route.
Baloney. All you have to do is to go to the information office right
outside of customs and ask. Then they will point you to stop 15 for
the 583 bus to Marsta whereupon you simply follow the crowd to get
onto the Pendeltag and off at the Central Station if that is where you
are going. Rigt about 15 feet from where the airport bus goes I might
add.
>>>>And has already been
>>>>pointed out, there is plenty of place to put your luggage on these
>>>>trains, which everyone going to the airport does.
>>>The airport coach and Arlanda express both have luggage space especially
>>>designed for the convenience of airport-bound travellers with lots of
>>>luggage. The commuter train has what commuter trains usually have: a hat
>>>rack. The local bus has, as far as I remember, no luggage space
>>>whatsoever, so unless you can find space on the floor (which you can't,
>>>if the bus is full), you'll sit there with your lugagge in your lap.
>>>> Your assertion is
>>>>just plain baloney. And I am obviously the tourist not you, so what
>>>>makes you such an expert on a tourist in Stockholm anyway?
>>>I have never lived in Stockholm, but have frequently visited it as a
>>>tourist. If you're not Swedish, I'm pretty sure I've visited it (as a
>>>tourist) many more times than you have.
>>
>>
>> Which makes your assertions even more silly, when I, as a non-Swedish
>> speaking foreign tourist (which is completely irrelevant since all
>> Swedes speak English anyway)
>No, it is not completely irrelevant. Swedes can read and comprehend
>signs saying things like "Pendeltag" and they generally know the meaning
>of abbreviations such as "SL", "SJ", "T", or "J", which are
>incomprehensible to foreign tourists, who consequently have to ask
>around. Of course, asking around is not a big deal and does not take a
>large amount of time, but it does slow things down somewhat. I have
>never claimed that the difference is huge, but have simply pointed out
>the undeniable fact that it exists, and that many people are perfectly
>happy paying 3 USD extra to alleviate these little inconveniences.
Then why have I had Swedes who are not from Stockholm ask me where the
T Bana is then when the signs are right there then huh? And, as I
have pointed out many times, the difference is a lot more than the
silly 3 dollars you keep asserting.
>> has no trouble finding my way with all
>> the services available to do so while you as a Swede apparently do.
>I have not had "trouble" finding the way along the SL route, but I have
>consistenly found that that route takes somewhat longer and is somewhat
>less convenient than the airport coach. The popularity of the coach
>indicates that I'm not the only one. Sorry if my disagreeing with you is
>somehow upsetting to you.
A lot more people take the Pendeltag than the airport bus. Routinely,
so it is hardly less popular than the airport bus. Which among other
things is for fools that can't even ask the information office at the
airport for the cheapest route. At least two Pendeltag trains have to
pass you by each time you try for it to take you 1.5 hours, but by
know watching all your distortions doesn't surprise. And you hardly
upset me. I meet bullheaded fools all the time and generally ignore
them but post here so that (a) people can see your blather for what it
is and (b) can save themselves a significant amount of money if they
ignore what you say (see Lennart for corroboration)
Jun 10th 2004, 9:40 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
"Björn Olsson" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet news:40c899a5> >>>Oh,
please! >
> Both you and Lennart are talking about a situation where you already
> have all the information and have taken this route several times before.
> I am talking about the situation our OP will be in, who is visiting
> Stockholm for the first time and have never travelled this route.
But the o.p (I guess he have left this conversation long time ago) did
actually ask for advice. We provided advice inclusive the alternative
commuter train+bus so assuming he have been reading he's aware of that now.
But immediately you started an endless argumentation against that
alternative providing nonsense arguments as 1½ hour when the actual travel
time is 55min.
And nonsense about the luggage, I can assure you there's no problem
travelling with luggage using pendeltåg+bus. Just have a look at Märsta
station next time and you'll see a number of persons doing the same thing at
close to every train arrival. Simply they carry luggage to the bus for
Arlanda, guess why ?
May I guess from your argumentation that your nice suitcase isn't supposed
to be on a train floor ? Wonderful, then you hand it over to the airports
conveyor system, the luggage carts, the plane's luggage floor and finally
on arrival it appears on the conveyor belt.
Nice and clean ? Not always.
And another thing. The airport buses do get full occasionally and you've to
wait for the next one , such things happens.
And the price tag : Flygbussarna is 89 SEK , ½ the r.t is 85SEK
commuter train based on rabattkuponger is 5 coupons=35SEK but as J.B.K says
perhaps you've already spend two or more coupons on a connecting trip and
need only three more=21SEK to compare with 85 or 90.
Substantial saving or not but leave it to the o.p
We have provided three alternatives for the o.p and for natural reasons the
o.p have the choice.
please! >
> Both you and Lennart are talking about a situation where you already
> have all the information and have taken this route several times before.
> I am talking about the situation our OP will be in, who is visiting
> Stockholm for the first time and have never travelled this route.
But the o.p (I guess he have left this conversation long time ago) did
actually ask for advice. We provided advice inclusive the alternative
commuter train+bus so assuming he have been reading he's aware of that now.
But immediately you started an endless argumentation against that
alternative providing nonsense arguments as 1½ hour when the actual travel
time is 55min.
And nonsense about the luggage, I can assure you there's no problem
travelling with luggage using pendeltåg+bus. Just have a look at Märsta
station next time and you'll see a number of persons doing the same thing at
close to every train arrival. Simply they carry luggage to the bus for
Arlanda, guess why ?
May I guess from your argumentation that your nice suitcase isn't supposed
to be on a train floor ? Wonderful, then you hand it over to the airports
conveyor system, the luggage carts, the plane's luggage floor and finally
on arrival it appears on the conveyor belt.
Nice and clean ? Not always.
And another thing. The airport buses do get full occasionally and you've to
wait for the next one , such things happens.
And the price tag : Flygbussarna is 89 SEK , ½ the r.t is 85SEK
commuter train based on rabattkuponger is 5 coupons=35SEK but as J.B.K says
perhaps you've already spend two or more coupons on a connecting trip and
need only three more=21SEK to compare with 85 or 90.
Substantial saving or not but leave it to the o.p
We have provided three alternatives for the o.p and for natural reasons the
o.p have the choice.
Jun 10th 2004, 8:23 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stockholm & Glasgow
[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:14:29 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> A. it's not saving 3 USD but more like 13 USD if you buy a
> >> rabatkuponger and do a round trip.
> >
> >See price comparison below. In short, coupons will cost 145 SEK, while a
> >coach roundtrip ticket costs 170, so the saving is 25 SEK, i.e. about 3 USD.
> >
> >Many people happily pay 3 USD for the added comfort, speed, and
> >simplicity of an airport coach, in comparison with a combination of
> >local bus and commuter train. I'm one of those people. Sorry if that
> >upsets you.
>
> Completely ridiculous as anyone who knows anything knows. Sure, the
> rabatkuponger costs 145 krona BUT as I said, you can also use it for
> other transportation.
Yes, if you need other transportation. Many people don't, and for
those people my way of counting is not "ridiculous". You do have a
fondness for calling other people's reasoning "baloney" and
"fondness". Why not at least trying to accept that there are more ways
of looking at this than your way?
> From Arlanda to the Central Station and beyond
> for 1.5 hiours uses 5 of the 20 stamps
I was charged 6 coupons. When did it change from 6 to 5, please?
> you have on the rabatkuponger
> with the roundtrip costing the same leaving you 10 other to use around
> Stockholm which, for the most part, use two each time for a one hour
> period, giving one up to 5 more trips ON TOP OF the airport journey.
Well, compare that with the 115 SEK for the combination of airport
coach plus free travel for one day on zone 1, which I mentioned
earlier. It's 30 SEK cheaper.
> Only you, apparently, would be so silly as to throw the rest away
> instead of simply buying a trip on the bus and Pendeltag one way each
> way. All you are proving with your constant drivel and ridiculous
> comparisons like this is to prove that liars use statistics.
With all due respect, I think you are a bit stupid. Instead of even
trying to understand what I am saying, you resort to imagining things
about my behaviour so that you get an opportunity of using your
favourite vocabulary: "silly", "drivel", "ridiculous", "liars".
I'm not impressed.
> >> B. it is even more if you are connecting at the Central Station on
> >> either the Pendeltag or T Bana (and how many stay at the Central
> >> Station?) since you can continue on both using the rabatkuponger for
> >> up to an hour and a half (and really up to 30 minutes longer if the
> >> person stamping your rabatkuponger puts his clock ahead as they
> >> usually do). If you use the airport coach you would have to pay about
> >> 23 USD roundtrip PLUS either a Pendtag or T Bana (or red bus for that
> >> matter) on top of the airport coach ticket, so the savings could well
> >> be more like 25 or 26 USD. As usual with your posting, you exaggerate
> >> on the high side for tickets choices and people (43 and hordes to use
> >> your words) and well on the low side when you talk about savings.
> >
> >Whilst accusing me of excaggerating, you are yourself excaggerating by
> >giving incorrect ticket prices and using flawed maths. The roundtrip
> >price for the airport coach is 22 USD (170 SEK = 22 USD, according to
> >www.forex.se 10 june 2004), not 23 as you stated. The price for 12 SL
> >coupons (which is what you need for a roundtrip to Arlanda) is 180 SEK,
> > which is actually more than for the coach, but you can of course
> >reduce that by buying a strip of 20 coupons for 145 SEK. Still, the
> >saving is a mere 3 USD (22-19).
>
> You are a complete moron and know nothing about what you are talking
> about.
Please go ahead and point out a single incorrect fact in the above
paragraph.
> I just took this trip a little over a week ago and it works
> exactly like I stated above. 22 dollars, 23 dollars a mere exchange
> difference which only a complete anal retentive moron like you would
> even bother to comment on, simply proving your complete ignorance.
> See above before you continue to make a complete fool out of yourself
> once again on your own country. I just did exactly what I described
> above exactly that way so I know exactly what it costs and how it
> works ace.
>
> >
> >Now, you may argue that you might make additional savings by using the
> >same coupons while travelling around Stockholm, but firstly that only
> >applies to travellers who actually have a need for that; secondly the
> >saving can never be 25-26 USD, unless flawed math is used; thirdly the
> >Flygbussarna offer combination tickets where you get the ride on the
> >airport coach PLUS unlimited travel with SL in central Stockholm (zone
> >1) for a whole day for only 115 SEK.
>
> Where is this shown? I just checked their site and nothing is said
> about this. Prove it.
1) Go to http://www.flygbussarna.com/koncernen/
2) Under "Valj flygplats", choose "Arlanda airport".
3) Under "Valj hallplats", choose "Stockholm city".
4) On the right-hand side, under "Priser", check "Kombi-biljett SL".
5) Take your stupid insults about "moron" etc and shove them in a
suitable orifice.
> Plus zone 1 is a small part of central
> Stockholm, whereas what I proposed covers ALL zones. Plus, at that
> price, it is only one way if it exists at all. And how many
> travellers stay at the Central Station?
Some travellers stay in places within walking distance to the Central
Station. Some travellers go to the Central Station by taxi. Some
travellers are just passing through Stockholm, arriving from somewhere
else. Etc, etc.
> >> C. the added hassle, is baloney as I have pointed out many times. It
> >> is insignificant and you simply demean your arguments by such silly
> >> exaggerations as these.
> >
> >You seem very fond of the word "baloney". It is, of course, very
> >convenient to repeat that word instead of formulating arguments
> >supporting your opinion. The drawback is that it makes the discussion
> >rather pointless and boring, and that it gives the impression that your
> >arguments are somewhat lacking.
> >
>
> What is pointless and boring are your non-ending stupid assertions and
> distortions which you continue to blather on about while a fellow
> Swede who actually lives in Stockholm (unlike you) and knows what he
> is talking about (unlike you) has said several times that I am right
> and you are full of it, which is really why you continue this stupid
> set of distortions, half truths, etc.
I see. Nothing new, except more insults. Not very impressing.
Bjorn
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:14:29 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> A. it's not saving 3 USD but more like 13 USD if you buy a
> >> rabatkuponger and do a round trip.
> >
> >See price comparison below. In short, coupons will cost 145 SEK, while a
> >coach roundtrip ticket costs 170, so the saving is 25 SEK, i.e. about 3 USD.
> >
> >Many people happily pay 3 USD for the added comfort, speed, and
> >simplicity of an airport coach, in comparison with a combination of
> >local bus and commuter train. I'm one of those people. Sorry if that
> >upsets you.
>
> Completely ridiculous as anyone who knows anything knows. Sure, the
> rabatkuponger costs 145 krona BUT as I said, you can also use it for
> other transportation.
Yes, if you need other transportation. Many people don't, and for
those people my way of counting is not "ridiculous". You do have a
fondness for calling other people's reasoning "baloney" and
"fondness". Why not at least trying to accept that there are more ways
of looking at this than your way?
> From Arlanda to the Central Station and beyond
> for 1.5 hiours uses 5 of the 20 stamps
I was charged 6 coupons. When did it change from 6 to 5, please?
> you have on the rabatkuponger
> with the roundtrip costing the same leaving you 10 other to use around
> Stockholm which, for the most part, use two each time for a one hour
> period, giving one up to 5 more trips ON TOP OF the airport journey.
Well, compare that with the 115 SEK for the combination of airport
coach plus free travel for one day on zone 1, which I mentioned
earlier. It's 30 SEK cheaper.
> Only you, apparently, would be so silly as to throw the rest away
> instead of simply buying a trip on the bus and Pendeltag one way each
> way. All you are proving with your constant drivel and ridiculous
> comparisons like this is to prove that liars use statistics.
With all due respect, I think you are a bit stupid. Instead of even
trying to understand what I am saying, you resort to imagining things
about my behaviour so that you get an opportunity of using your
favourite vocabulary: "silly", "drivel", "ridiculous", "liars".
I'm not impressed.
> >> B. it is even more if you are connecting at the Central Station on
> >> either the Pendeltag or T Bana (and how many stay at the Central
> >> Station?) since you can continue on both using the rabatkuponger for
> >> up to an hour and a half (and really up to 30 minutes longer if the
> >> person stamping your rabatkuponger puts his clock ahead as they
> >> usually do). If you use the airport coach you would have to pay about
> >> 23 USD roundtrip PLUS either a Pendtag or T Bana (or red bus for that
> >> matter) on top of the airport coach ticket, so the savings could well
> >> be more like 25 or 26 USD. As usual with your posting, you exaggerate
> >> on the high side for tickets choices and people (43 and hordes to use
> >> your words) and well on the low side when you talk about savings.
> >
> >Whilst accusing me of excaggerating, you are yourself excaggerating by
> >giving incorrect ticket prices and using flawed maths. The roundtrip
> >price for the airport coach is 22 USD (170 SEK = 22 USD, according to
> >www.forex.se 10 june 2004), not 23 as you stated. The price for 12 SL
> >coupons (which is what you need for a roundtrip to Arlanda) is 180 SEK,
> > which is actually more than for the coach, but you can of course
> >reduce that by buying a strip of 20 coupons for 145 SEK. Still, the
> >saving is a mere 3 USD (22-19).
>
> You are a complete moron and know nothing about what you are talking
> about.
Please go ahead and point out a single incorrect fact in the above
paragraph.
> I just took this trip a little over a week ago and it works
> exactly like I stated above. 22 dollars, 23 dollars a mere exchange
> difference which only a complete anal retentive moron like you would
> even bother to comment on, simply proving your complete ignorance.
> See above before you continue to make a complete fool out of yourself
> once again on your own country. I just did exactly what I described
> above exactly that way so I know exactly what it costs and how it
> works ace.
>
> >
> >Now, you may argue that you might make additional savings by using the
> >same coupons while travelling around Stockholm, but firstly that only
> >applies to travellers who actually have a need for that; secondly the
> >saving can never be 25-26 USD, unless flawed math is used; thirdly the
> >Flygbussarna offer combination tickets where you get the ride on the
> >airport coach PLUS unlimited travel with SL in central Stockholm (zone
> >1) for a whole day for only 115 SEK.
>
> Where is this shown? I just checked their site and nothing is said
> about this. Prove it.
1) Go to http://www.flygbussarna.com/koncernen/
2) Under "Valj flygplats", choose "Arlanda airport".
3) Under "Valj hallplats", choose "Stockholm city".
4) On the right-hand side, under "Priser", check "Kombi-biljett SL".
5) Take your stupid insults about "moron" etc and shove them in a
suitable orifice.
> Plus zone 1 is a small part of central
> Stockholm, whereas what I proposed covers ALL zones. Plus, at that
> price, it is only one way if it exists at all. And how many
> travellers stay at the Central Station?
Some travellers stay in places within walking distance to the Central
Station. Some travellers go to the Central Station by taxi. Some
travellers are just passing through Stockholm, arriving from somewhere
else. Etc, etc.
> >> C. the added hassle, is baloney as I have pointed out many times. It
> >> is insignificant and you simply demean your arguments by such silly
> >> exaggerations as these.
> >
> >You seem very fond of the word "baloney". It is, of course, very
> >convenient to repeat that word instead of formulating arguments
> >supporting your opinion. The drawback is that it makes the discussion
> >rather pointless and boring, and that it gives the impression that your
> >arguments are somewhat lacking.
> >
>
> What is pointless and boring are your non-ending stupid assertions and
> distortions which you continue to blather on about while a fellow
> Swede who actually lives in Stockholm (unlike you) and knows what he
> is talking about (unlike you) has said several times that I am right
> and you are full of it, which is really why you continue this stupid
> set of distortions, half truths, etc.
I see. Nothing new, except more insults. Not very impressing.
Bjorn
