"Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
Dec 20th 2006, 5:03 am
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
[the Daily Mail]
>>>> It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in print if it was
>>>> racist.
>> It wouldn't be in print if it was too racist for Tony Blair, but that
>> doesn't mean a hell of lot.
>> It has been consistently the worst in the UK for cheerleading attacks
>> on refugees.
> That would be incitement, which would be covered by UK law.
> You also said it was racist. If it was racist, it would be
> breaking other UK laws.
There are many forms of racism which are *not* illegal in the UK but
which are still capable of getting people burned alive, tortured or
beaten to death. The Mail's lawyers know perfectly well what they
can get away with. The paper's editors have decided on a strategy of
selling papers by using an ongoing meta-story in which Britain is
threatened by alien invasion. Not having any credible Martians to
write about, they pin every evil they possibly can on "asylum seekers",
knowing that most of them can't afford a legal fightback and that
most of their readers are in no position to know when the Mail is
bullshitting.
>>> In any case, you have to concede that the swimming pool in Croydon
>>> is insisting on Muslim dress.
>> Not according to their website.
> Yes.
>>> And if you still aren't convinced...
>>> http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/sports/swim/498121
>>> Apology please, Jack!
>> What they actually say:
>> : Contrary to national press reports over the weekend
>> by which they presumably mean the Daily Mail...
>> : sessions are
>> : open to all faiths. The sessions for women are held on Saturday
>> : afternoon and the sessions for men are held on Sunday afternoons.
>> : The dress code during these sessions requires a greater level of
>> : covering-up than would be the case during public opening hours.
>> Which most likely means "no string bikinis".
> Certainly. It means covering up sufficiently to enable
> Muslims to swim.
> Therefore Islamic dress rules apply. You denied that.
The point is there is nothing specifically Islamic about such a
restriction. Just looking at a group of women dressed according
to such rules, you couldn't tell what religion they were. There
are Christian groups (like the Brethren and some Catholics) that
set the same sort of boundaries. Or look at the Mormon dress code:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/modesty.htm
>> I'll be in Istanbul in a week. When I'm in Turkey I generally dress
>> according to the local version of the Islamic dress code for men. What
>> do you suppose that means?
> I don't know. But we're not talking about day wear in Istanbul.
My point was: you *could not tell* that I was fitting in to any specific
restriction. Most men in Edinburgh would do so without any intentional
action. Or, look at a Turkish crowd, and you can't tell which the
observant Muslims are. (Whereas anywhere outside Utah, you can spot a
Mormon male at 400 yards).
> And I'm still waiting for that apology....
Pompous little fart, aren't you?
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
>>>> It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in print if it was
>>>> racist.
>> It wouldn't be in print if it was too racist for Tony Blair, but that
>> doesn't mean a hell of lot.
>> It has been consistently the worst in the UK for cheerleading attacks
>> on refugees.
> That would be incitement, which would be covered by UK law.
> You also said it was racist. If it was racist, it would be
> breaking other UK laws.
There are many forms of racism which are *not* illegal in the UK but
which are still capable of getting people burned alive, tortured or
beaten to death. The Mail's lawyers know perfectly well what they
can get away with. The paper's editors have decided on a strategy of
selling papers by using an ongoing meta-story in which Britain is
threatened by alien invasion. Not having any credible Martians to
write about, they pin every evil they possibly can on "asylum seekers",
knowing that most of them can't afford a legal fightback and that
most of their readers are in no position to know when the Mail is
bullshitting.
>>> In any case, you have to concede that the swimming pool in Croydon
>>> is insisting on Muslim dress.
>> Not according to their website.
> Yes.
>>> And if you still aren't convinced...
>>> http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/sports/swim/498121
>>> Apology please, Jack!
>> What they actually say:
>> : Contrary to national press reports over the weekend
>> by which they presumably mean the Daily Mail...
>> : sessions are
>> : open to all faiths. The sessions for women are held on Saturday
>> : afternoon and the sessions for men are held on Sunday afternoons.
>> : The dress code during these sessions requires a greater level of
>> : covering-up than would be the case during public opening hours.
>> Which most likely means "no string bikinis".
> Certainly. It means covering up sufficiently to enable
> Muslims to swim.
> Therefore Islamic dress rules apply. You denied that.
The point is there is nothing specifically Islamic about such a
restriction. Just looking at a group of women dressed according
to such rules, you couldn't tell what religion they were. There
are Christian groups (like the Brethren and some Catholics) that
set the same sort of boundaries. Or look at the Mormon dress code:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/modesty.htm
>> I'll be in Istanbul in a week. When I'm in Turkey I generally dress
>> according to the local version of the Islamic dress code for men. What
>> do you suppose that means?
> I don't know. But we're not talking about day wear in Istanbul.
My point was: you *could not tell* that I was fitting in to any specific
restriction. Most men in Edinburgh would do so without any intentional
action. Or, look at a Turkish crowd, and you can't tell which the
observant Muslims are. (Whereas anywhere outside Utah, you can spot a
Mormon male at 400 yards).
> And I'm still waiting for that apology....
Pompous little fart, aren't you?
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Dec 20th 2006, 5:57 am
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
> [the Daily Mail]
> >>>> It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in print if it was
> >>>> racist.
> >> It wouldn't be in print if it was too racist for Tony Blair, but that
> >> doesn't mean a hell of lot.
> >> It has been consistently the worst in the UK for cheerleading attacks
> >> on refugees.
> > That would be incitement, which would be covered by UK law.
> > You also said it was racist. If it was racist, it would be
> > breaking other UK laws.
> There are many forms of racism which are *not* illegal in the UK but
> which are still capable of getting people burned alive, tortured or
> beaten to death.
Like what?
> The Mail's lawyers know perfectly well what they
> can get away with. The paper's editors have decided on a strategy of
> selling papers by using an ongoing meta-story in which Britain is
> threatened by alien invasion. Not having any credible Martians to
> write about, they pin every evil they possibly can on "asylum seekers",
> knowing that most of them can't afford a legal fightback and that
> most of their readers are in no position to know when the Mail is
> bullshitting.
So how do you know that stories about asylum seekers
in the Daily Mail are false?
Much of the information concurs with the BBC website.
Is that racist too?
And you don't even read the Mail. I had to point you to
the article about the swimming pool.
> >>> In any case, you have to concede that the swimming pool in Croydon
> >>> is insisting on Muslim dress.
> >> Not according to their website.
> > Yes.
> >>> And if you still aren't convinced...
> >>> http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/sports/swim/498121
> >>> Apology please, Jack!
> >> What they actually say:
> >> : Contrary to national press reports over the weekend
> >> by which they presumably mean the Daily Mail...
> >> : sessions are
> >> : open to all faiths. The sessions for women are held on Saturday
> >> : afternoon and the sessions for men are held on Sunday afternoons.
> >> : The dress code during these sessions requires a greater level of
> >> : covering-up than would be the case during public opening hours.
> >>
> >> Which most likely means "no string bikinis".
> > Certainly. It means covering up sufficiently to enable
> > Muslims to swim.
> > Therefore Islamic dress rules apply. You denied that.
> The point is there is nothing specifically Islamic about such a
> restriction.
You said there were no restrictions! You were wrong.
> Just looking at a group of women dressed according
> to such rules, you couldn't tell what religion they were.
What rules? You said there were none.
> >> I'll be in Istanbul in a week. When I'm in Turkey I generally dress
> >> according to the local version of the Islamic dress code for men. What
> >> do you suppose that means?
> > I don't know. But we're not talking about day wear in Istanbul.
> My point was: you *could not tell* that I was fitting in to any specific
> restriction. Most men in Edinburgh would do so without any intentional
> action. Or, look at a Turkish crowd, and you can't tell which the
> observant Muslims are. (Whereas anywhere outside Utah, you can spot a
> Mormon male at 400 yards).
The argument was not whether or not we can pick out
a Muslim in a crowd. I think I could pick out an observant
Muslim btw. But anyway, you're changing the
subject.
The argument was whether or not there are dress restrictions
for the benefit of Muslims during some sessions in a UK
public swimming pool. And the answer is "yes".
You denied it. You gave examples of women only sessions
in Scotland without dress restrictions. You said I was
fantasizing. Well, you were wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sooooo wrong.
......Happy Christmas, Mr Oh-Sooo-Wrong! :)
> [the Daily Mail]
> >>>> It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in print if it was
> >>>> racist.
> >> It wouldn't be in print if it was too racist for Tony Blair, but that
> >> doesn't mean a hell of lot.
> >> It has been consistently the worst in the UK for cheerleading attacks
> >> on refugees.
> > That would be incitement, which would be covered by UK law.
> > You also said it was racist. If it was racist, it would be
> > breaking other UK laws.
> There are many forms of racism which are *not* illegal in the UK but
> which are still capable of getting people burned alive, tortured or
> beaten to death.
Like what?
> The Mail's lawyers know perfectly well what they
> can get away with. The paper's editors have decided on a strategy of
> selling papers by using an ongoing meta-story in which Britain is
> threatened by alien invasion. Not having any credible Martians to
> write about, they pin every evil they possibly can on "asylum seekers",
> knowing that most of them can't afford a legal fightback and that
> most of their readers are in no position to know when the Mail is
> bullshitting.
So how do you know that stories about asylum seekers
in the Daily Mail are false?
Much of the information concurs with the BBC website.
Is that racist too?
And you don't even read the Mail. I had to point you to
the article about the swimming pool.
> >>> In any case, you have to concede that the swimming pool in Croydon
> >>> is insisting on Muslim dress.
> >> Not according to their website.
> > Yes.
> >>> And if you still aren't convinced...
> >>> http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/sports/swim/498121
> >>> Apology please, Jack!
> >> What they actually say:
> >> : Contrary to national press reports over the weekend
> >> by which they presumably mean the Daily Mail...
> >> : sessions are
> >> : open to all faiths. The sessions for women are held on Saturday
> >> : afternoon and the sessions for men are held on Sunday afternoons.
> >> : The dress code during these sessions requires a greater level of
> >> : covering-up than would be the case during public opening hours.
> >>
> >> Which most likely means "no string bikinis".
> > Certainly. It means covering up sufficiently to enable
> > Muslims to swim.
> > Therefore Islamic dress rules apply. You denied that.
> The point is there is nothing specifically Islamic about such a
> restriction.
You said there were no restrictions! You were wrong.
> Just looking at a group of women dressed according
> to such rules, you couldn't tell what religion they were.
What rules? You said there were none.
> >> I'll be in Istanbul in a week. When I'm in Turkey I generally dress
> >> according to the local version of the Islamic dress code for men. What
> >> do you suppose that means?
> > I don't know. But we're not talking about day wear in Istanbul.
> My point was: you *could not tell* that I was fitting in to any specific
> restriction. Most men in Edinburgh would do so without any intentional
> action. Or, look at a Turkish crowd, and you can't tell which the
> observant Muslims are. (Whereas anywhere outside Utah, you can spot a
> Mormon male at 400 yards).
The argument was not whether or not we can pick out
a Muslim in a crowd. I think I could pick out an observant
Muslim btw. But anyway, you're changing the
subject.
The argument was whether or not there are dress restrictions
for the benefit of Muslims during some sessions in a UK
public swimming pool. And the answer is "yes".
You denied it. You gave examples of women only sessions
in Scotland without dress restrictions. You said I was
fantasizing. Well, you were wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sooooo wrong.
......Happy Christmas, Mr Oh-Sooo-Wrong! :)
Dec 20th 2006, 8:16 am
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
>> There are many forms of racism which are *not* illegal in the UK but
>> which are still capable of getting people burned alive, tortured or
>> beaten to death.
> Like what?
Deportation to countries where you face certain death.
Running hate campaigns against refugees (in Mail-speak "asylum seekers")
to encourage thugs to attack them.
>> The Mail's lawyers know perfectly well what they
>> can get away with. The paper's editors have decided on a strategy of
>> selling papers by using an ongoing meta-story in which Britain is
>> threatened by alien invasion. Not having any credible Martians to
>> write about, they pin every evil they possibly can on "asylum seekers",
>> knowing that most of them can't afford a legal fightback and that
>> most of their readers are in no position to know when the Mail is
>> bullshitting.
> So how do you know that stories about asylum seekers
> in the Daily Mail are false?
For how they find their stories:
http://www.carf.demon.co.uk/feat22.html
http://www.canterbury.u-net.com/Dover.html
Or for the historical background to the way they operate:
http://www.labournet.net/antiracism/0301/mail1.html
> Much of the information concurs with the BBC website.
> Is that racist too?
When it's toeing the government line, which it does a lot more often
than it used to before Thatcher and Blair started putting the boot in.
A successful propaganda campaign like this one (started by fascists
controlling a local Dover newspaper most of Britain has never heard
of) gets less obviously ideological media swept along with it. You
really hit the jackpot when you get the Beeb as your soapbox, as by
then retractions will have very little effect.
> You said I was
> fantasizing. Well, you were wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
> Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sooooo wrong.
>
> ......Happy Christmas, Mr Oh-Sooo-Wrong! :)
Have you ever left Solihull in your life? How old are you, anyway?
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
>> which are still capable of getting people burned alive, tortured or
>> beaten to death.
> Like what?
Deportation to countries where you face certain death.
Running hate campaigns against refugees (in Mail-speak "asylum seekers")
to encourage thugs to attack them.
>> The Mail's lawyers know perfectly well what they
>> can get away with. The paper's editors have decided on a strategy of
>> selling papers by using an ongoing meta-story in which Britain is
>> threatened by alien invasion. Not having any credible Martians to
>> write about, they pin every evil they possibly can on "asylum seekers",
>> knowing that most of them can't afford a legal fightback and that
>> most of their readers are in no position to know when the Mail is
>> bullshitting.
> So how do you know that stories about asylum seekers
> in the Daily Mail are false?
For how they find their stories:
http://www.carf.demon.co.uk/feat22.html
http://www.canterbury.u-net.com/Dover.html
Or for the historical background to the way they operate:
http://www.labournet.net/antiracism/0301/mail1.html
> Much of the information concurs with the BBC website.
> Is that racist too?
When it's toeing the government line, which it does a lot more often
than it used to before Thatcher and Blair started putting the boot in.
A successful propaganda campaign like this one (started by fascists
controlling a local Dover newspaper most of Britain has never heard
of) gets less obviously ideological media swept along with it. You
really hit the jackpot when you get the Beeb as your soapbox, as by
then retractions will have very little effect.
> You said I was
> fantasizing. Well, you were wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
> Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sooooo wrong.
>
> ......Happy Christmas, Mr Oh-Sooo-Wrong! :)
Have you ever left Solihull in your life? How old are you, anyway?
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Dec 20th 2006, 9:12 am
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > jb wrote:
> >
> ...
> >>
> >>The people such as yourself who appear to be saying the Moslems are a
> >>special case.
> >
> >
> > Not really. Any group who have a special requirement for pool use are a
> > special case. A couple of ho-hum special cases that spring to mind are
> > competitive swimmers and naturists. Competitive swimmers regularly get
> > exclusive use of the pool when they want to hold races and carnivals.
> > As to naturists, Sylvia Else would love it if you asked how to attend
> > the special nude swimming sessions she is organising at the UNSW pool
> > in Sydney.
> >
> > Are you going to condemn swimming clubs and naturists too, or will you
> > stick with racism?
> >
>
> Why are you singling out competitive muslim swimmers and nude muslim
> swimmers?
A quick recheck doesn't find the word "Muslim" anywhere in my text.
I gave competitive swimmers and Naturists as examples that we already
give exclusive use of public pools to some groups in society on a
regular basis.
Of course *anyone* can join the swimming club and compete. *Anyone* can
swim naked during the Naturist session. *Anyone* can become a Muslim
too. Becoming a Muslim is easier than joining the swimming club but
harder than becoming a Naturist.
--
DM
personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://sunnybar.dynip.com/politics
[email protected] writes...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > jb wrote:
> >
> ...
> >>
> >>The people such as yourself who appear to be saying the Moslems are a
> >>special case.
> >
> >
> > Not really. Any group who have a special requirement for pool use are a
> > special case. A couple of ho-hum special cases that spring to mind are
> > competitive swimmers and naturists. Competitive swimmers regularly get
> > exclusive use of the pool when they want to hold races and carnivals.
> > As to naturists, Sylvia Else would love it if you asked how to attend
> > the special nude swimming sessions she is organising at the UNSW pool
> > in Sydney.
> >
> > Are you going to condemn swimming clubs and naturists too, or will you
> > stick with racism?
> >
>
> Why are you singling out competitive muslim swimmers and nude muslim
> swimmers?
A quick recheck doesn't find the word "Muslim" anywhere in my text.
I gave competitive swimmers and Naturists as examples that we already
give exclusive use of public pools to some groups in society on a
regular basis.
Of course *anyone* can join the swimming club and compete. *Anyone* can
swim naked during the Naturist session. *Anyone* can become a Muslim
too. Becoming a Muslim is easier than joining the swimming club but
harder than becoming a Naturist.
--
DM
personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://sunnybar.dynip.com/politics
Dec 20th 2006, 9:22 am
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
> >> There are many forms of racism which are *not* illegal in the UK but
> >> which are still capable of getting people burned alive, tortured or
> >> beaten to death.
> > Like what?
> Deportation to countries where you face certain death.
That is illegal, but I don't think it would be racist anyway.
What I mean is, we had a known terrorist living among us
who was under a death sentence for murder in a Middle Eastern
country. It would not have been racist to send him back to that
country to face justice.
> Running hate campaigns against refugees (in Mail-speak "asylum seekers")
> to encourage thugs to attack them.
Incitement? That's illegal.
> >> The Mail's lawyers know perfectly well what they
> >> can get away with. The paper's editors have decided on a strategy of
> >> selling papers by using an ongoing meta-story in which Britain is
> >> threatened by alien invasion. Not having any credible Martians to
> >> write about, they pin every evil they possibly can on "asylum seekers",
> >> knowing that most of them can't afford a legal fightback and that
> >> most of their readers are in no position to know when the Mail is
> >> bullshitting.
> > So how do you know that stories about asylum seekers
> > in the Daily Mail are false?
> For how they find their stories:
> http://www.carf.demon.co.uk/feat22.html
That article doesn't prove that the Mail
is factually incorrect.
The article itself makes some very naive
statements, particularly about the Czech republic.
eg. the "Roma refugees" fleeing "racist persecution".
If that were really the case, they would have flooded
into the nearest safe haven, and not travelled across
half the continent and then the English channel.
The article is actually very
unfair towards the Mail in that it accuses the Mail of racism
on the one hand, and yet admits The Mail ran a campaign
to bring the killers of Stephen Lawrence to justice.
> http://www.canterbury.u-net.com/Dover.html
More of the same.
> Or for the historical background to the way they operate:
> http://www.labournet.net/antiracism/0301/mail1.html
This is ludicrous.
Melanie Phillips is Jewish. She is a well known columnist
for the Daily Mail. Ask her if she thinks it's a "Nazi"
newspaper.
> > Much of the information concurs with the BBC website.
> > Is that racist too?
> When it's toeing the government line, which it does a lot more often
> than it used to before Thatcher and Blair started putting the boot in.
> A successful propaganda campaign like this one (started by fascists
> controlling a local Dover newspaper most of Britain has never heard
> of) gets less obviously ideological media swept along with it. You
> really hit the jackpot when you get the Beeb as your soapbox, as by
> then retractions will have very little effect.
So that's a "yes" then?
The BBC website is racist?
> > You said I was
> > fantasizing. Well, you were wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
> > Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sooooo wrong.
> >
> > ......Happy Christmas, Mr Oh-Sooo-Wrong! :)
> Have you ever left Solihull in your life? How old are you, anyway?
Solihull? Is that North? I'm afraid I don't
do "North" :-) We Daily Mail readers live in
the South.
And as for the other question... don't be so
rude!
> >> There are many forms of racism which are *not* illegal in the UK but
> >> which are still capable of getting people burned alive, tortured or
> >> beaten to death.
> > Like what?
> Deportation to countries where you face certain death.
That is illegal, but I don't think it would be racist anyway.
What I mean is, we had a known terrorist living among us
who was under a death sentence for murder in a Middle Eastern
country. It would not have been racist to send him back to that
country to face justice.
> Running hate campaigns against refugees (in Mail-speak "asylum seekers")
> to encourage thugs to attack them.
Incitement? That's illegal.
> >> The Mail's lawyers know perfectly well what they
> >> can get away with. The paper's editors have decided on a strategy of
> >> selling papers by using an ongoing meta-story in which Britain is
> >> threatened by alien invasion. Not having any credible Martians to
> >> write about, they pin every evil they possibly can on "asylum seekers",
> >> knowing that most of them can't afford a legal fightback and that
> >> most of their readers are in no position to know when the Mail is
> >> bullshitting.
> > So how do you know that stories about asylum seekers
> > in the Daily Mail are false?
> For how they find their stories:
> http://www.carf.demon.co.uk/feat22.html
That article doesn't prove that the Mail
is factually incorrect.
The article itself makes some very naive
statements, particularly about the Czech republic.
eg. the "Roma refugees" fleeing "racist persecution".
If that were really the case, they would have flooded
into the nearest safe haven, and not travelled across
half the continent and then the English channel.
The article is actually very
unfair towards the Mail in that it accuses the Mail of racism
on the one hand, and yet admits The Mail ran a campaign
to bring the killers of Stephen Lawrence to justice.
> http://www.canterbury.u-net.com/Dover.html
More of the same.
> Or for the historical background to the way they operate:
> http://www.labournet.net/antiracism/0301/mail1.html
This is ludicrous.
Melanie Phillips is Jewish. She is a well known columnist
for the Daily Mail. Ask her if she thinks it's a "Nazi"
newspaper.
> > Much of the information concurs with the BBC website.
> > Is that racist too?
> When it's toeing the government line, which it does a lot more often
> than it used to before Thatcher and Blair started putting the boot in.
> A successful propaganda campaign like this one (started by fascists
> controlling a local Dover newspaper most of Britain has never heard
> of) gets less obviously ideological media swept along with it. You
> really hit the jackpot when you get the Beeb as your soapbox, as by
> then retractions will have very little effect.
So that's a "yes" then?
The BBC website is racist?
> > You said I was
> > fantasizing. Well, you were wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
> > Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sooooo wrong.
> >
> > ......Happy Christmas, Mr Oh-Sooo-Wrong! :)
> Have you ever left Solihull in your life? How old are you, anyway?
Solihull? Is that North? I'm afraid I don't
do "North" :-) We Daily Mail readers live in
the South.
And as for the other question... don't be so
rude!
Dec 20th 2006, 9:26 am
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
David Moss wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Of course *anyone* can join the swimming club and compete. *Anyone* can
> swim naked during the Naturist session. *Anyone* can become a Muslim
> too.
Becoming a Muslim just to go for a swim? That's a bit
extreme isn't it?
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Of course *anyone* can join the swimming club and compete. *Anyone* can
> swim naked during the Naturist session. *Anyone* can become a Muslim
> too.
Becoming a Muslim just to go for a swim? That's a bit
extreme isn't it?
Dec 20th 2006, 9:30 am
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
Emma wrote:
> In article <[email protected]. com>, Addinall
> says...
> >
> >
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >> Addinall wrote:
> >> >
> >>>> >
> >> > Shrug. You can't argue for GOOD segregation and
> >> > argue against BAD segregation.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, I think that's exactly what we should do.
> >> Men only private clubs and women only gym sessions
> >> are not harming society.
> >
> >If you say so. Idon't have a problem with your belief system.
> Well it's a fact, isn't it?
> Or do you think otherwise?
No, I like the idea of men only clubs.
> >> (Actually -- scrub that! -- typing "men only
> >> clubs" is making me seethe!!! ....Ban them! :-)
> >>
> >> Religious segregation does harm society, but we're
> >> only just beginning to realize that in the UK.
> >
> >Oh don't be silly. I lived in Doncaster and Sheffield
> >in the 50s through the 60s, Again in 1973-1975,
> >again in 1988 - 1990. I saw a lot of Paki Bashing
> >years and years ago. Some people have always
> >been somewhat intolerant.
> So you're arguing for segregation?
No, just reminding you that it has been around for a
very long time. Longer than my experience.
> >> > It's silly. I don't
> >> > have a clothing fetish. Most do. It's just a matter of
> >> > degree on the whole. And, it seems, that we respect
> >> > OTHER people's sensibilities.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I think religiously segregated public leisure facilities
> >> harms society. I just can't see how it can be
> >> justified.
> >
> >Nor I. But I'm not forcing my will onto others.
> >That's what "liberal" means.
> Is segregation supported by liberals?
Speaking for "liberals" is a bit of an oxymoron
dontcha think?
> >> Would you accept Christian only swimming
> >> sessions in public pools?
> >
> >User pays Darls. If you can get a group of Christians
> >together that want the pool for thier very own for
> >an hour, I don't have a problem.
> >
> Well when will the general public get to use the
> public swimming pool if every religious group
> can claim their special hour?
168 hours in a week last time I checked. When I swam
at a team level, we used to take the pool for ourselves
between 0500 and 0800, 7 days a week.
Australians don't use public swimming pools much
these days. That was sort of the "drive in" era,
the loss lamented by some. So I think anyone who
is bothered by the concept, is being bothered for the
sake of it.
Since sport is more important than religion in this country,
most of our Olympic pools ae pretty much used full time
now by atheletes. As a comparison, I think the UK
has about a dozen Olympic pools, whilst Australia
has around fifty.
Mark Addinall.
> --
> ~*~*Emma*~*~
> http://www.carols.org.uk/we_wish_you..._chris1mas.htm
> In article <[email protected]. com>, Addinall
> says...
> >
> >
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >> Addinall wrote:
> >> >
> >>>> >
> >> > Shrug. You can't argue for GOOD segregation and
> >> > argue against BAD segregation.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, I think that's exactly what we should do.
> >> Men only private clubs and women only gym sessions
> >> are not harming society.
> >
> >If you say so. Idon't have a problem with your belief system.
> Well it's a fact, isn't it?
> Or do you think otherwise?
No, I like the idea of men only clubs.
> >> (Actually -- scrub that! -- typing "men only
> >> clubs" is making me seethe!!! ....Ban them! :-)
> >>
> >> Religious segregation does harm society, but we're
> >> only just beginning to realize that in the UK.
> >
> >Oh don't be silly. I lived in Doncaster and Sheffield
> >in the 50s through the 60s, Again in 1973-1975,
> >again in 1988 - 1990. I saw a lot of Paki Bashing
> >years and years ago. Some people have always
> >been somewhat intolerant.
> So you're arguing for segregation?
No, just reminding you that it has been around for a
very long time. Longer than my experience.
> >> > It's silly. I don't
> >> > have a clothing fetish. Most do. It's just a matter of
> >> > degree on the whole. And, it seems, that we respect
> >> > OTHER people's sensibilities.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I think religiously segregated public leisure facilities
> >> harms society. I just can't see how it can be
> >> justified.
> >
> >Nor I. But I'm not forcing my will onto others.
> >That's what "liberal" means.
> Is segregation supported by liberals?
Speaking for "liberals" is a bit of an oxymoron
dontcha think?
> >> Would you accept Christian only swimming
> >> sessions in public pools?
> >
> >User pays Darls. If you can get a group of Christians
> >together that want the pool for thier very own for
> >an hour, I don't have a problem.
> >
> Well when will the general public get to use the
> public swimming pool if every religious group
> can claim their special hour?
168 hours in a week last time I checked. When I swam
at a team level, we used to take the pool for ourselves
between 0500 and 0800, 7 days a week.
Australians don't use public swimming pools much
these days. That was sort of the "drive in" era,
the loss lamented by some. So I think anyone who
is bothered by the concept, is being bothered for the
sake of it.
Since sport is more important than religion in this country,
most of our Olympic pools ae pretty much used full time
now by atheletes. As a comparison, I think the UK
has about a dozen Olympic pools, whilst Australia
has around fifty.
Mark Addinall.
> --
> ~*~*Emma*~*~
> http://www.carols.org.uk/we_wish_you..._chris1mas.htm
Dec 20th 2006, 11:59 am
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ps.com...
> Maria wrote:
>> DVH wrote:
>> > "David Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > > >
>> > On the beaches of Egypt and Libya the women do indeed swim fully-clothed,
>> > unveiled but otherwise draped in the usual garb.
>> And also in Hindu India. (try swimming with 6m of sari fabric wrapped
>> around you!)
>> It's a western thing - taking most of your clothes off in public I mean.
> I don't think so. There are plenty of cultures around
> the world, on all the continents, where it's acceptable
> to wear very little.
I vote for Venezuela. See --
http://www.planetvisitor.name/rump.jpg
Planet Visitor II
Official publisher of AADP Official dictionary
http://www.planetvisitor.name/dictionary.html
news:[email protected] ps.com...
> Maria wrote:
>> DVH wrote:
>> > "David Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > > >
>> > On the beaches of Egypt and Libya the women do indeed swim fully-clothed,
>> > unveiled but otherwise draped in the usual garb.
>> And also in Hindu India. (try swimming with 6m of sari fabric wrapped
>> around you!)
>> It's a western thing - taking most of your clothes off in public I mean.
> I don't think so. There are plenty of cultures around
> the world, on all the continents, where it's acceptable
> to wear very little.
I vote for Venezuela. See --
http://www.planetvisitor.name/rump.jpg
Planet Visitor II
Official publisher of AADP Official dictionary
http://www.planetvisitor.name/dictionary.html
Dec 20th 2006, 1:26 pm
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
"Emma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Jack
> Campin -
> bogus address says...
>>>>> I think it is discrimatory. I would disagree with
>>>>> special swimming times for any religions: Christian,
>>>>> Muslim, Hinudu, Jewish, whatever.
>>>>> But there are only special concessions in this case
>>>>> for Muslims. Non-Muslims can only join the sessions
>>>>> if they dress in Islamic clothes.
>>>> I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
>>>> have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
>>>> Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
>>>> there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
>>>> most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
>>>> ordinary swimsuits.
>>> No, that's not true.
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk [...]
>>Got a source that isn't a consistently racist rag going back to when
>>it backed Hitler in the 30s?
> It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in
> print if it was racist. And you're thinking of the
> Evening Standard? That backed Hitler in the 30's.
No he's not. It was the Rothermere press i.e. the Daily Mail who printed
the Headline "Hurray for the Blackshirts".
The Evening Standard then owned by Beaverbrook did not back fascism.
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Jack
> Campin -
> bogus address says...
>>>>> I think it is discrimatory. I would disagree with
>>>>> special swimming times for any religions: Christian,
>>>>> Muslim, Hinudu, Jewish, whatever.
>>>>> But there are only special concessions in this case
>>>>> for Muslims. Non-Muslims can only join the sessions
>>>>> if they dress in Islamic clothes.
>>>> I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
>>>> have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
>>>> Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
>>>> there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
>>>> most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
>>>> ordinary swimsuits.
>>> No, that's not true.
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk [...]
>>Got a source that isn't a consistently racist rag going back to when
>>it backed Hitler in the 30s?
> It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in
> print if it was racist. And you're thinking of the
> Evening Standard? That backed Hitler in the 30's.
No he's not. It was the Rothermere press i.e. the Daily Mail who printed
the Headline "Hurray for the Blackshirts".
The Evening Standard then owned by Beaverbrook did not back fascism.
Dec 20th 2006, 2:40 pm
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> David Moss wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Of course *anyone* can join the swimming club and compete. *Anyone* can
>> swim naked during the Naturist session. *Anyone* can become a Muslim
>> too.
> Becoming a Muslim just to go for a swim? That's a bit
> extreme isn't it?
Not for this crowd.
Planet Visitor II
Official publisher of AADP Official dictionary
http://www.planetvisitor.name/dictionary.html
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> David Moss wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Of course *anyone* can join the swimming club and compete. *Anyone* can
>> swim naked during the Naturist session. *Anyone* can become a Muslim
>> too.
> Becoming a Muslim just to go for a swim? That's a bit
> extreme isn't it?
Not for this crowd.
Planet Visitor II
Official publisher of AADP Official dictionary
http://www.planetvisitor.name/dictionary.html
Dec 20th 2006, 3:08 pm
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:59:45 +0000, Jack Campin - bogus address
<[email protected]> wrote:
Snip
>[Followups set to rte, the only one of these groups I read - I doubt
>people on the death penalty group want to see their forum trivialized
>like this.]
That's alright Jack...I for one have enjoyed watching Emma make you
squirm. I wonder if she is an Aussie?.....as you have reacted a bit
like the Pommy Cricket team really. Full of bluster and bullshit, but
in the end, ineffectual and not really up to it.
--
WooF w00f WooF
<[email protected]> wrote:
Snip
>[Followups set to rte, the only one of these groups I read - I doubt
>people on the death penalty group want to see their forum trivialized
>like this.]
That's alright Jack...I for one have enjoyed watching Emma make you
squirm. I wonder if she is an Aussie?.....as you have reacted a bit
like the Pommy Cricket team really. Full of bluster and bullshit, but
in the end, ineffectual and not really up to it.
--
WooF w00f WooF
Dec 20th 2006, 10:05 pm
#102
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
David Moss wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] writes...
>
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>jb wrote:
>>...
>>>>The people such as yourself who appear to be saying the Moslems are a
>>>>special case.
>>>Not really. Any group who have a special requirement for pool use are a
>>>special case. A couple of ho-hum special cases that spring to mind are
>>>competitive swimmers and naturists. Competitive swimmers regularly get
>>>exclusive use of the pool when they want to hold races and carnivals.
>>>As to naturists, Sylvia Else would love it if you asked how to attend
>>>the special nude swimming sessions she is organising at the UNSW pool
>>>in Sydney.
>>>Are you going to condemn swimming clubs and naturists too, or will you
>>>stick with racism?
>>Why are you singling out competitive muslim swimmers and nude muslim
>>swimmers?
>
>
> A quick recheck doesn't find the word "Muslim" anywhere in my text.
I'd suggest that you check more carefully next time.
This was the thread:
Addinall: "Who are the PC Brigade?"
jb: "The people such as yourself who appear to be saying the Moslems are
a special case"
Moss: "Not really. Any group who have a special requirement for pool use
are a special case"
A bit rich to claim that "Muslim" cannot be found anywhere in *your*
text when you responded to:
"The people such as yourself who appear
to be saying the Moslems are a special
case" (jb)
>
> I gave competitive swimmers and Naturists as examples that we already
> give exclusive use of public pools to some groups in society on a
> regular basis.
>
> Of course *anyone* can join the swimming club and compete. *Anyone* can
> swim naked during the Naturist session. *Anyone* can become a Muslim
> too. Becoming a Muslim is easier than joining the swimming club but
> harder than becoming a Naturist.
>
Ridiculous argument. For a start, the Croydon council does *not* require
that you become a Muslim. Secondly, naturism and competitive swimming
are not religious/racial delineations. Third, if becoming a Muslim is
hard then clearly the policy is discriminatory. Fourth, anyone *can* do
any of these things but maybe we *choose* not to
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] writes...
>
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>jb wrote:
>>...
>>>>The people such as yourself who appear to be saying the Moslems are a
>>>>special case.
>>>Not really. Any group who have a special requirement for pool use are a
>>>special case. A couple of ho-hum special cases that spring to mind are
>>>competitive swimmers and naturists. Competitive swimmers regularly get
>>>exclusive use of the pool when they want to hold races and carnivals.
>>>As to naturists, Sylvia Else would love it if you asked how to attend
>>>the special nude swimming sessions she is organising at the UNSW pool
>>>in Sydney.
>>>Are you going to condemn swimming clubs and naturists too, or will you
>>>stick with racism?
>>Why are you singling out competitive muslim swimmers and nude muslim
>>swimmers?
>
>
> A quick recheck doesn't find the word "Muslim" anywhere in my text.
I'd suggest that you check more carefully next time.
This was the thread:
Addinall: "Who are the PC Brigade?"
jb: "The people such as yourself who appear to be saying the Moslems are
a special case"
Moss: "Not really. Any group who have a special requirement for pool use
are a special case"
A bit rich to claim that "Muslim" cannot be found anywhere in *your*
text when you responded to:
"The people such as yourself who appear
to be saying the Moslems are a special
case" (jb)
>
> I gave competitive swimmers and Naturists as examples that we already
> give exclusive use of public pools to some groups in society on a
> regular basis.
>
> Of course *anyone* can join the swimming club and compete. *Anyone* can
> swim naked during the Naturist session. *Anyone* can become a Muslim
> too. Becoming a Muslim is easier than joining the swimming club but
> harder than becoming a Naturist.
>
Ridiculous argument. For a start, the Croydon council does *not* require
that you become a Muslim. Secondly, naturism and competitive swimming
are not religious/racial delineations. Third, if becoming a Muslim is
hard then clearly the policy is discriminatory. Fourth, anyone *can* do
any of these things but maybe we *choose* not to
Dec 22nd 2006, 2:20 am
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
> >[Followups set to rte, the only one of these groups I read - I doubt
> >people on the death penalty group want to see their forum trivialized
> >like this.]
> That's alright Jack...I for one have enjoyed watching Emma make you
> squirm. I wonder if she is an Aussie?.....as you have reacted a bit
> like the Pommy Cricket team really. Full of bluster and bullshit, but
> in the end, ineffectual and not really up to it.
She's the one fropm the cricket-playing country, not me.
I've no idea what Emma looks like but I doubt I'd want to squirm with her.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
> >people on the death penalty group want to see their forum trivialized
> >like this.]
> That's alright Jack...I for one have enjoyed watching Emma make you
> squirm. I wonder if she is an Aussie?.....as you have reacted a bit
> like the Pommy Cricket team really. Full of bluster and bullshit, but
> in the end, ineffectual and not really up to it.
She's the one fropm the cricket-playing country, not me.
I've no idea what Emma looks like but I doubt I'd want to squirm with her.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Dec 22nd 2006, 7:02 am
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
> >
> She's the one from the cricket-playing country, not me.
> I've no idea what Emma looks like but I doubt I'd want to squirm with her.
I'm gorgeous, Jack :-)
And I'm sure you're a handsome hunk yourself!
Btw, I hope you manage to get your flight to Istanbul.
I know the airports are pretty dire at the moment.
> >
> She's the one from the cricket-playing country, not me.
> I've no idea what Emma looks like but I doubt I'd want to squirm with her.
I'm gorgeous, Jack :-)
And I'm sure you're a handsome hunk yourself!
Btw, I hope you manage to get your flight to Istanbul.
I know the airports are pretty dire at the moment.
Jan 1st 2007, 4:52 am
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: "Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools
"PJ O'Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ps.com...
....
> Croydon Mosque states quite unequivocally: 'Muslims are not allowed
> to show off intimate parts of their body. This is non-negotiable.
> Muslims have as much right to go swimming as anyone else.'
>
> Indeed they do, sir, indeed they do.
If Pinochet wasn't dead they could ask him for a lift.
news:[email protected] ps.com...
....
> Croydon Mosque states quite unequivocally: 'Muslims are not allowed
> to show off intimate parts of their body. This is non-negotiable.
> Muslims have as much right to go swimming as anyone else.'
>
> Indeed they do, sir, indeed they do.
If Pinochet wasn't dead they could ask him for a lift.
