Ulf Kutzner

Dave Smith schrieb:
    >
    > Øystein wrote:

    > > Isn't it right that Schengen includes all the EU countries except the
    > > UK and plus Norway?
    > >
    > > Remmember that Passport is the only valid id, so you need your
    > > passport for inctance when booking hotelrooms even if you don't need
    > > it to cross the border.
    > >
    >
    > A few years I flew to Copenhagen with a connection at Schipol. I was travelling with four others , and they were
    > going to Hamburg to pick up a car and were to meet me in Denmark. They went through customs / immigration at
    > Schipol but I was directed around that and did not have to clear customs until I arrived in Copenhagen.

I guess Copenhagen was outside Schengenland when you went there.

Regards, ULF

Ulf Kutzner

Henry schrieb:

    > > The countries of the European Union (minus UK and Ireland, who are EU but
    > > don't take part) (plus the Nordic passport union, some of which are non-EU)
    > > have abolished all border controls amongst each other.
    >
    > Well, in theory anyway.
    >
    > > You can move freely
    > > in this area as if it was one big inland. Anyone who gets immigration
    > > permission to one of these countries automatically has a permission for all
    > > of them.
    >
    > We (two Schengen people) put this to the test a couple of summers ago,
    > on a driving trip. We made a big loop and crossed 11 frontiers,
    > involving seven countries. The result was pretty good; in only one case
    > (from Germany into Denmark) were they inspecting passports.

At that time, Danmark might not have been part of Schengenland.

Regards, ULF

Ulf Kutzner

Wolfgang Schwanke schrieb:
    >
    > "Will Trash-Spam" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > Erm not sure how up to date all the stuff you have is, but you no
    > > longer need a visa to travel to any Schengen country from Romania and
    > > vice-versa, so I think the areas been enlarged somewhat, even if not
    > > "officially" in "schengen" speak. My Romanian wife travelled to Spain
    > > last year without a visa and we checked with the Spanish embassy and
    > > it was fine, part of Schengen they told us.
    >
    > I think you're confusing two issues:
    >
    > "Schengen" means there are no internal border controls at all. In this
    > sense, "Schengen area" is like one big country.
    >
    > "Visa free" means, mutual agreements between two countries to let each
    > others citizens enter without prior application for a visa. It doesn't mean
    > that mutual passport controls cease. They still exist, merely visa
    > requirements have been dropped.

But as there should be no border controls in Schengenland, visa free
travel should be allowed by all concerned countries or by none of them.
There were some complicated cases in the past.

    > Most eastern countries

besides CIS countries

    > now have visa free regulations with "Schengen", but
    > passport controls still reman effective (similar to the situation that
    > existed between Western European countries for many decades). So they
    > aren't part of "Schengen" in any meaningful way, yet.

How ever, many of these counties have been forced to impose visas for
CIS and othere citizens.

Regards, ULF

Xor

[email protected] (Henry) wrote in message news:<1fzozme.izx3xyb1ldssN%[email protected]>.. .
    > Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > > You can move freely
    > > in this area as if it was one big inland. Anyone who gets immigration
    > > permission to one of these countries automatically has a permission for all
    > > of them.
    >
    > We (two Schengen people) put this to the test a couple of summers ago,
    > on a driving trip. We made a big loop and crossed 11 frontiers,
    > involving seven countries. The result was pretty good; in only one case
    > (from Germany into Denmark) were they inspecting passports.
    >


FWIW - in 1987 and again in 1992, we (US passport holders) took
driving trips around Europe. Over the course of both trips visited
Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Spain, Switzlerland, and France. The
*only* time we were ever even stopped crossing borders was when
entering Spain from France ('92). Quick glance at our passports and a
waive. There was one other crossing in '87 - tho I can't recall now
where - in which the border agents were slowing cars to stop, but
merely glanced at the license plates (it was a rental hired in
Germany) and waived us thru.

Kind of a bummer, as '87 was my first international trip and I wanted
a few more stamps

I've had to go thru much more effort crossing between Canada and the
US.

Henry

Ulf Kutzner <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Wolfgang Schwanke schrieb:

    > >
    > > "Schengen" means there are no internal border controls at all. In this
    > > sense, "Schengen area" is like one big country.
    > >
    > > "Visa free" means, mutual agreements between two countries to let each
    > > others citizens enter without prior application for a visa. It doesn't mean
    > > that mutual passport controls cease. They still exist, merely visa
    > > requirements have been dropped.
    >
    > But as there should be no border controls in Schengenland, visa free
    > travel should be allowed by all concerned countries or by none of them.
    > There were some complicated cases in the past.

Complicated cases in the past, and funny situations even now. The
Norwegian Embassy in Dublin has a webpage explaining in detail how Irish
people can 'apply' for a 'visa' to 'Schengen'.

http://www.norway.ie/cgi-bin/wbch3.exe?p=3968

The only thing is, since Ireland is an EU country, Irish people have the
_right_ to live anywhere in the EU, which means 13 of the 15 Schengen
countries. And since Norway is Schengen (but not EU), why would an Irish
person ever have to get a Norwegian visa?

cheers,

Henry

Miguel Cruz

Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The only thing is, since Ireland is an EU country, Irish people have the
    > _right_ to live anywhere in the EU, which means 13 of the 15 Schengen
    > countries. And since Norway is Schengen (but not EU), why would an Irish
    > person ever have to get a Norwegian visa?

To work there maybe?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Herbie Jurvanen

In <1fzpz22.jure3gyyl1g2N%[email protected]>, Henry wrote:

    > Complicated cases in the past, and funny situations even now. The
    > Norwegian Embassy in Dublin has a webpage explaining in detail how Irish
    > people can 'apply' for a 'visa' to 'Schengen'.
    >
    > http://www.norway.ie/cgi-bin/wbch3.exe?p=3968

The information on that website isn't exclusive to Irish citizens. It is
imaginable that non-Irish citizens residing in Ireland might someday wish to
visit Norway, or possibly even other Schengen countries.



--
Herbie J.
Famous Curator

Richard

How is S-c-h-e-n-g-e-n pronounced?
thanks



On 14 Aug 2003 19:16:09 -0700, [email protected] (XOR) wrote:

    >[email protected] (Henry) wrote in message news:<1fzozme.izx3xyb1ldssN%[email protected]>.. .
    >> Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> > You can move freely
    >> > in this area as if it was one big inland. Anyone who gets immigration
    >> > permission to one of these countries automatically has a permission for all
    >> > of them.
    >>
    >> We (two Schengen people) put this to the test a couple of summers ago,
    >> on a driving trip. We made a big loop and crossed 11 frontiers,
    >> involving seven countries. The result was pretty good; in only one case
    >> (from Germany into Denmark) were they inspecting passports.
    >>
    >FWIW - in 1987 and again in 1992, we (US passport holders) took
    >driving trips around Europe. Over the course of both trips visited
    >Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Spain, Switzlerland, and France. The
    >*only* time we were ever even stopped crossing borders was when
    >entering Spain from France ('92). Quick glance at our passports and a
    >waive. There was one other crossing in '87 - tho I can't recall now
    >where - in which the border agents were slowing cars to stop, but
    >merely glanced at the license plates (it was a rental hired in
    >Germany) and waived us thru.
    >Kind of a bummer, as '87 was my first international trip and I wanted
    >a few more stamps
    >I've had to go thru much more effort crossing between Canada and the
    >US.

Jenn

In article <[email protected]>,
Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Will Trash-Spam" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > Erm not sure how up to date all the stuff you have is, but you no
    > > longer need a visa to travel to any Schengen country from Romania and
    > > vice-versa, so I think the areas been enlarged somewhat, even if not
    > > "officially" in "schengen" speak. My Romanian wife travelled to Spain
    > > last year without a visa and we checked with the Spanish embassy and
    > > it was fine, part of Schengen they told us.
    >
    > I think you're confusing two issues:
    >
    > "Schengen" means there are no internal border controls at all. In this
    > sense, "Schengen area" is like one big country.
    >
    > "Visa free" means, mutual agreements between two countries to let each
    > others citizens enter without prior application for a visa. It doesn't mean
    > that mutual passport controls cease. They still exist, merely visa
    > requirements have been dropped.
    >
    > Most eastern countries now have visa free regulations with "Schengen", but
    > passport controls still reman effective (similar to the situation that
    > existed between Western European countries for many decades). So they
    > aren't part of "Schengen" in any meaningful way, yet.
    >
    > Regards

for Americans the relevant fact here is that you can only stay in all
Schengen countries combined for 90 days -- you used to be able to spend
months in Europe by moving from country to country. That is no longer
legally possible.

Frank F. Matthews

It's still possible just more complicated. You have to limit yourself
to 90 days in each 180 in Schengen, UK/Eire, East Europe. FFM

Jenn wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Will Trash-Spam" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>news:[email protected]:
    >>>Erm not sure how up to date all the stuff you have is, but you no
    >>>longer need a visa to travel to any Schengen country from Romania and
    >>>vice-versa, so I think the areas been enlarged somewhat, even if not
    >>>"officially" in "schengen" speak. My Romanian wife travelled to Spain
    >>>last year without a visa and we checked with the Spanish embassy and
    >>>it was fine, part of Schengen they told us.
    >>I think you're confusing two issues:
    >>"Schengen" means there are no internal border controls at all. In this
    >>sense, "Schengen area" is like one big country.
    >>"Visa free" means, mutual agreements between two countries to let each
    >>others citizens enter without prior application for a visa. It doesn't mean
    >>that mutual passport controls cease. They still exist, merely visa
    >>requirements have been dropped.
    >>Most eastern countries now have visa free regulations with "Schengen", but
    >>passport controls still reman effective (similar to the situation that
    >>existed between Western European countries for many decades). So they
    >>aren't part of "Schengen" in any meaningful way, yet.
    >>Regards
    >
    >
    > for Americans the relevant fact here is that you can only stay in all
    > Schengen countries combined for 90 days -- you used to be able to spend
    > months in Europe by moving from country to country. That is no longer
    > legally possible.

Miguel Cruz

Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:
    > It's still possible just more complicated. You have to limit yourself
    > to 90 days in each 180 in Schengen, UK/Eire, East Europe. FFM

6 months in UK/Ireland unless they've changed things very recently.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu