Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
May 31st 2003, 8:06 am
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
On Sat, 31 May 2003 19:58:20 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, Tony B
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... Oh, so is the news meant to only be critical and bring down the
... government? What about the mass graves and freed people? What is the
... bottom line here?? People nitpicking over WMD after so many other bad
... things have been revealed are only acting politically and have nothing
... to do with news reporting.
Oh, yes ?
Read this, then.
Published on Thursday, May 29, 2003 by the National Catholic Reporter
"Is There Anything Left That Matters?
by Joan Chittister, OSB
This is what I don't understand: All of a sudden nothing seems to matter.
First, they said they wanted Bin Laden "dead or alive." But they didn't get him. So now
they tell us that it doesn't matter. Our mission is greater than one man.
Then they said they wanted Saddam Hussein, "dead or alive." He's apparently alive but we
haven't got him yet, either. However, President Bush told reporters recently, "It doesn't
matter. Our mission is greater than one man."
Finally, they told us that we were invading Iraq to destroy their weapons of mass
destruction. Now they say those weapons probably don't exist. Maybe never existed.
Apparently that doesn't matter either.
Except that it does matter.
I know we're not supposed to say that. I know it's called "unpatriotic."
But it's also called honesty. And dishonesty matters.
It matters that the infrastructure of a foreign nation that couldn't defend itself against
us has been destroyed on the grounds that it was a military threat to the world.
It matters that it was destroyed by us under a new doctrine of "pre-emptive war" when
there was apparently nothing worth pre-empting.
It surely matters to the families here whose sons went to war to make the world safe from
weapons of mass destruction and will never come home.
It matters to families in the United States whose life support programs were ended, whose
medical insurance ran out, whose food stamps were cut off, whose day care programs were
eliminated so we could spend the money on sending an army to do what did not need to be
done.
It matters to the Iraqi girl whose face was burned by a lamp that toppled over as a result
of a U.S. bombing run.
It matters to Ali, the Iraqi boy who lost his family - and both his arms - in a U.S. air
attack.
It matters to the people in Baghdad whose water supply is now fetid, whose electricity is
gone, whose streets are unsafe, whose 158 government ministries' buildings and all their
records have been destroyed, whose cultural heritage and social system has been looted and
whose cities teem with anti-American protests.
It matters that the people we say we "liberated" do not feel liberated in the midst of the
lawlessness, destruction and wholesale social suffering that so-called liberation created.
It matters to the United Nations whose integrity was impugned, whose authority was denied,
whose inspection teams are even now still being overlooked in the process of technical
evaluation and disarmament.
It matters to the reputation of the United States in the eyes of the world, both now and
for decades to come, perhaps.
And surely it matters to the integrity of this nation whether or not its intelligence
gathering agencies have any real intelligence or not before we launch a military armada on
its say-so.
And it should matter whether or not our government is either incompetent and didn't know
what they were doing or were dishonest and refused to say. The unspoken truth is that
either as a people we were misled, or we were lied to, about the real reason for this war.
Either we made a huge - and unforgivable - mistake, an arrogant or ignorant mistake, or we
are swaggering around the world like a blind giant, flailing in all directions while the
rest of the world watches in horror or in ridicule.
If Bill Clinton's definition of "is" matters, surely this matters. If a president's sex
life matters, surely a president's use of global force against some of the weakest people
in the world matters. If a president's word in a court of law about a private indiscretion
matters, surely a president's word to the community of nations and the security of
millions of people matters.
And if not, why not? If not, surely there is something as wrong with us as citizens, as
thinkers, as Christians as there must be with some facet of the government. If wars that
the public says are wrong yesterday - as over 70% of U.S. citizens did before the attack
on Iraq - suddenly become "right" the minute the first bombs drop, what kind of national
morality is that?
Of what are we really capable as a nation if the considered judgment of politicians and
people around the world means nothing to us as a people?
What is the depth of the American soul if we can allow destruction to be done in our name
and the name of "liberation" and never even demand an accounting of its costs, both
personal and public, when it is over?
We like to take comfort in the notion that people make a distinction between our
government and ourselves. We like to say that the people of the world love Americans, they
simply mistrust our government. But excoriating a distant and anonymous "government" for
wreaking rubble on a nation in pretence of good requires very little of either character
or intelligence.
What may count most, however, is that we may well be the ones Proverbs warns when it
reminds us: "Kings take pleasure in honest lips; they value the one who speaks the truth."
The point is clear: If the people speak and the king doesn't listen, there is something
wrong with the king. If the king acts precipitously and the people say nothing, something
is wrong with the people.
It may be time for us to realize that in a country that prides itself on being democratic,
we are our government. And the rest of the world is figuring that out very quickly.
From where I stand, that matters."
==============
A Benedictine Sister of Erie, Sister Joan is a best-selling author and well- known
international lecturer. She is founder and executive director of Benetvision: A Resource
and Research Center for Contemporary Spirituality, and past president of the Conference of
American Benedictine Prioresses and the Leadership Conference of Women Religious. Sister
Joan has been recognized by universities and national organizations for her work for
justice, peace and equality for women in the Church and society. She is an active member
of the International Peace Council.
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... Oh, so is the news meant to only be critical and bring down the
... government? What about the mass graves and freed people? What is the
... bottom line here?? People nitpicking over WMD after so many other bad
... things have been revealed are only acting politically and have nothing
... to do with news reporting.
Oh, yes ?
Read this, then.
Published on Thursday, May 29, 2003 by the National Catholic Reporter
"Is There Anything Left That Matters?
by Joan Chittister, OSB
This is what I don't understand: All of a sudden nothing seems to matter.
First, they said they wanted Bin Laden "dead or alive." But they didn't get him. So now
they tell us that it doesn't matter. Our mission is greater than one man.
Then they said they wanted Saddam Hussein, "dead or alive." He's apparently alive but we
haven't got him yet, either. However, President Bush told reporters recently, "It doesn't
matter. Our mission is greater than one man."
Finally, they told us that we were invading Iraq to destroy their weapons of mass
destruction. Now they say those weapons probably don't exist. Maybe never existed.
Apparently that doesn't matter either.
Except that it does matter.
I know we're not supposed to say that. I know it's called "unpatriotic."
But it's also called honesty. And dishonesty matters.
It matters that the infrastructure of a foreign nation that couldn't defend itself against
us has been destroyed on the grounds that it was a military threat to the world.
It matters that it was destroyed by us under a new doctrine of "pre-emptive war" when
there was apparently nothing worth pre-empting.
It surely matters to the families here whose sons went to war to make the world safe from
weapons of mass destruction and will never come home.
It matters to families in the United States whose life support programs were ended, whose
medical insurance ran out, whose food stamps were cut off, whose day care programs were
eliminated so we could spend the money on sending an army to do what did not need to be
done.
It matters to the Iraqi girl whose face was burned by a lamp that toppled over as a result
of a U.S. bombing run.
It matters to Ali, the Iraqi boy who lost his family - and both his arms - in a U.S. air
attack.
It matters to the people in Baghdad whose water supply is now fetid, whose electricity is
gone, whose streets are unsafe, whose 158 government ministries' buildings and all their
records have been destroyed, whose cultural heritage and social system has been looted and
whose cities teem with anti-American protests.
It matters that the people we say we "liberated" do not feel liberated in the midst of the
lawlessness, destruction and wholesale social suffering that so-called liberation created.
It matters to the United Nations whose integrity was impugned, whose authority was denied,
whose inspection teams are even now still being overlooked in the process of technical
evaluation and disarmament.
It matters to the reputation of the United States in the eyes of the world, both now and
for decades to come, perhaps.
And surely it matters to the integrity of this nation whether or not its intelligence
gathering agencies have any real intelligence or not before we launch a military armada on
its say-so.
And it should matter whether or not our government is either incompetent and didn't know
what they were doing or were dishonest and refused to say. The unspoken truth is that
either as a people we were misled, or we were lied to, about the real reason for this war.
Either we made a huge - and unforgivable - mistake, an arrogant or ignorant mistake, or we
are swaggering around the world like a blind giant, flailing in all directions while the
rest of the world watches in horror or in ridicule.
If Bill Clinton's definition of "is" matters, surely this matters. If a president's sex
life matters, surely a president's use of global force against some of the weakest people
in the world matters. If a president's word in a court of law about a private indiscretion
matters, surely a president's word to the community of nations and the security of
millions of people matters.
And if not, why not? If not, surely there is something as wrong with us as citizens, as
thinkers, as Christians as there must be with some facet of the government. If wars that
the public says are wrong yesterday - as over 70% of U.S. citizens did before the attack
on Iraq - suddenly become "right" the minute the first bombs drop, what kind of national
morality is that?
Of what are we really capable as a nation if the considered judgment of politicians and
people around the world means nothing to us as a people?
What is the depth of the American soul if we can allow destruction to be done in our name
and the name of "liberation" and never even demand an accounting of its costs, both
personal and public, when it is over?
We like to take comfort in the notion that people make a distinction between our
government and ourselves. We like to say that the people of the world love Americans, they
simply mistrust our government. But excoriating a distant and anonymous "government" for
wreaking rubble on a nation in pretence of good requires very little of either character
or intelligence.
What may count most, however, is that we may well be the ones Proverbs warns when it
reminds us: "Kings take pleasure in honest lips; they value the one who speaks the truth."
The point is clear: If the people speak and the king doesn't listen, there is something
wrong with the king. If the king acts precipitously and the people say nothing, something
is wrong with the people.
It may be time for us to realize that in a country that prides itself on being democratic,
we are our government. And the rest of the world is figuring that out very quickly.
From where I stand, that matters."
==============
A Benedictine Sister of Erie, Sister Joan is a best-selling author and well- known
international lecturer. She is founder and executive director of Benetvision: A Resource
and Research Center for Contemporary Spirituality, and past president of the Conference of
American Benedictine Prioresses and the Leadership Conference of Women Religious. Sister
Joan has been recognized by universities and national organizations for her work for
justice, peace and equality for women in the Church and society. She is an active member
of the International Peace Council.
May 31st 2003, 8:13 am
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
On Sat, 31 May 2003 19:59:52 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, Tony B
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
...
... It was just a warning of some people here that think they speak for
... everyone.
Oh, and you are just the right little boy for the job, aren't you ?
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
...
... It was just a warning of some people here that think they speak for
... everyone.
Oh, and you are just the right little boy for the job, aren't you ?
May 31st 2003, 11:04 am
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
>
> Published on Thursday, May 29, 2003 by the National Catholic Reporter
>
> "Is There Anything Left That Matters?
> by Joan Chittister, OSB
>
> This is what I don't understand: All of a sudden nothing seems to matter.
Agreed. Why do mass graves and countless acts of terror against a people
no longer matter?
> Finally, they told us that we were invading Iraq to destroy their weapons of mass
> destruction. Now they say those weapons probably don't exist. Maybe never existed.
> Apparently that doesn't matter either.
If the doctor exrays you for cancer, but doesn't find any, but yet
discovers you need heart surgery when doing it, was it a waste?
>
> Except that it does matter.
Sure it matters - IF the Iraqi people were living above the poverty
level and weren't being slaughtered, maybe then WMD might matter still.
>
> I know we're not supposed to say that. I know it's called "unpatriotic."
It's called "politics" and that's all you're playing.
> It surely matters to the families here whose sons went to war to make the world safe from
> weapons of mass destruction and will never come home.
Don't get the military into this. Every service person I have heard
despises back stabbers like this.
>
> It matters to families in the United States whose life support programs were ended, whose
> medical insurance ran out, whose food stamps were cut off, whose day care programs were
> eliminated so we could spend the money on sending an army to do what did not need to be
> done.
Why a load of unproven bullshit.
>
> It matters to the Iraqi girl whose face was burned by a lamp that toppled over as a result
> of a U.S. bombing run.
>
> It matters to Ali, the Iraqi boy who lost his family - and both his arms - in a U.S. air
> attack.
>
It matters to all those Iraqi people whose families were slaughtered.
They now run there hands through the bones, desperately searching for
lost loved ones, by the thousands. Two little kids get hurt is the best
you can do? A one month war is worse than decades of murder? What an
idiot.
> It matters to the people in Baghdad whose water supply is now fetid,
It already was, Saddam spent very little on that "system". What a joke.
> whose electricity is
> gone,
Gone forever, right goon?
> whose streets are unsafe,
By who, you mean Saddams goons? The people are asking for even more
military.
Enough of this. Sister Joan, eh? She sounds almost as senile as the
Pope. In all this, not one word about Saddams atrocities. What a
hypocrite.
> Published on Thursday, May 29, 2003 by the National Catholic Reporter
>
> "Is There Anything Left That Matters?
> by Joan Chittister, OSB
>
> This is what I don't understand: All of a sudden nothing seems to matter.
Agreed. Why do mass graves and countless acts of terror against a people
no longer matter?
> Finally, they told us that we were invading Iraq to destroy their weapons of mass
> destruction. Now they say those weapons probably don't exist. Maybe never existed.
> Apparently that doesn't matter either.
If the doctor exrays you for cancer, but doesn't find any, but yet
discovers you need heart surgery when doing it, was it a waste?
>
> Except that it does matter.
Sure it matters - IF the Iraqi people were living above the poverty
level and weren't being slaughtered, maybe then WMD might matter still.
>
> I know we're not supposed to say that. I know it's called "unpatriotic."
It's called "politics" and that's all you're playing.
> It surely matters to the families here whose sons went to war to make the world safe from
> weapons of mass destruction and will never come home.
Don't get the military into this. Every service person I have heard
despises back stabbers like this.
>
> It matters to families in the United States whose life support programs were ended, whose
> medical insurance ran out, whose food stamps were cut off, whose day care programs were
> eliminated so we could spend the money on sending an army to do what did not need to be
> done.
Why a load of unproven bullshit.
>
> It matters to the Iraqi girl whose face was burned by a lamp that toppled over as a result
> of a U.S. bombing run.
>
> It matters to Ali, the Iraqi boy who lost his family - and both his arms - in a U.S. air
> attack.
>
It matters to all those Iraqi people whose families were slaughtered.
They now run there hands through the bones, desperately searching for
lost loved ones, by the thousands. Two little kids get hurt is the best
you can do? A one month war is worse than decades of murder? What an
idiot.
> It matters to the people in Baghdad whose water supply is now fetid,
It already was, Saddam spent very little on that "system". What a joke.
> whose electricity is
> gone,
Gone forever, right goon?
> whose streets are unsafe,
By who, you mean Saddams goons? The people are asking for even more
military.
Enough of this. Sister Joan, eh? She sounds almost as senile as the
Pope. In all this, not one word about Saddams atrocities. What a
hypocrite.
May 31st 2003, 1:52 pm
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
>Subject: Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
>From: [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
>Date: 5/31/03 10:56 Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id:
>Tony B wrote:
>> I would watch out for the loud-mouthed idiots we have here, though. They
>> are in the minority but claim to speak for everyone. You will constantly
>> hear them bring up Fox news for some reason and bash it, but Fox is the
>> most popular news and Bush is the most popular front runner for the next
>> election.
>So merit is intrinsic to popularity? When Carter or Clinton were the most
>popular candidates were you singing their praises?
>miguel
>--
>Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
>Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Does King Bill still hold the record for sending the most troops to the most
places than any other president?
Gary Nichols
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------
All countries are good. Some are better than others. That's all.
All people are good. Some are better than others. That's all.
Gary Nichols
>From: [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
>Date: 5/31/03 10:56 Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id:
>Tony B wrote:
>> I would watch out for the loud-mouthed idiots we have here, though. They
>> are in the minority but claim to speak for everyone. You will constantly
>> hear them bring up Fox news for some reason and bash it, but Fox is the
>> most popular news and Bush is the most popular front runner for the next
>> election.
>So merit is intrinsic to popularity? When Carter or Clinton were the most
>popular candidates were you singing their praises?
>miguel
>--
>Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
>Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Does King Bill still hold the record for sending the most troops to the most
places than any other president?
Gary Nichols
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------
All countries are good. Some are better than others. That's all.
All people are good. Some are better than others. That's all.
Gary Nichols
May 31st 2003, 6:58 pm
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
Tony B wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John Stolz wrote:
> > Having recently returned from the US, I was shocked at the quality of
new
> > programming. I searched in vain for news with some degree of
criticalality,
> > but failed.
> > Surely the job of the news media is to challenge the current authority,
not
> > simply to parrot it and deflect interest to 'American Idols' nonsense.
> > Back home in Europe, I see the UK governemnet getting a very hard time
over
> > the non-existence of WMD, in the US I saw only a very pro-government
line.
> Oh, so is the news meant to only be critical and bring down the
> government? What about the mass graves and freed people? What is the
> bottom line here?? People nitpicking over WMD after so many other bad
> things have been revealed are only acting politically and have nothing
> to do with news reporting.
Not *only* critical, but its job is to be critical - otherwise we could just
rely on government press releases
Its not nitpicking - our governmnets told us that we were going to war
because of WMD - they lied to us. There are plenty of bad guys in the
world, but we're not planning to go to war against them - Bush and Blair
told us it was about WMD - they lied, sadly the US media don't seem to think
that's very important.
news:[email protected]...
> John Stolz wrote:
> > Having recently returned from the US, I was shocked at the quality of
new
> > programming. I searched in vain for news with some degree of
criticalality,
> > but failed.
> > Surely the job of the news media is to challenge the current authority,
not
> > simply to parrot it and deflect interest to 'American Idols' nonsense.
> > Back home in Europe, I see the UK governemnet getting a very hard time
over
> > the non-existence of WMD, in the US I saw only a very pro-government
line.
> Oh, so is the news meant to only be critical and bring down the
> government? What about the mass graves and freed people? What is the
> bottom line here?? People nitpicking over WMD after so many other bad
> things have been revealed are only acting politically and have nothing
> to do with news reporting.
Not *only* critical, but its job is to be critical - otherwise we could just
rely on government press releases
Its not nitpicking - our governmnets told us that we were going to war
because of WMD - they lied to us. There are plenty of bad guys in the
world, but we're not planning to go to war against them - Bush and Blair
told us it was about WMD - they lied, sadly the US media don't seem to think
that's very important.
May 31st 2003, 9:41 pm
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
gatsby wrote:
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> Tony B wrote:
>>> I would watch out for the loud-mouthed idiots we have here, though. They
>>> are in the minority but claim to speak for everyone. You will constantly
>>> hear them bring up Fox news for some reason and bash it, but Fox is the
>>> most popular news and Bush is the most popular front runner for the next
>>> election.
>> So merit is intrinsic to popularity? When Carter or Clinton were the most
>> popular candidates were you singing their praises?
> Does King Bill still hold the record for sending the most troops to the
> most places than any other president?
That's sort of a non-sequitur, isn't it? What am I supposed to say now? Does
William Howard Taft still hold the record for requiring the widest car door?
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> Tony B wrote:
>>> I would watch out for the loud-mouthed idiots we have here, though. They
>>> are in the minority but claim to speak for everyone. You will constantly
>>> hear them bring up Fox news for some reason and bash it, but Fox is the
>>> most popular news and Bush is the most popular front runner for the next
>>> election.
>> So merit is intrinsic to popularity? When Carter or Clinton were the most
>> popular candidates were you singing their praises?
> Does King Bill still hold the record for sending the most troops to the
> most places than any other president?
That's sort of a non-sequitur, isn't it? What am I supposed to say now? Does
William Howard Taft still hold the record for requiring the widest car door?
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 1st 2003, 2:06 am
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
>Subject: Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
>From: [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
>Date: 6/1/03 02:41 Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id:
>gatsby wrote:
>> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>> Tony B wrote:
>>>> I would watch out for the loud-mouthed idiots we have here, though. They
>>>> are in the minority but claim to speak for everyone. You will constantly
>>>> hear them bring up Fox news for some reason and bash it, but Fox is the
>>>> most popular news and Bush is the most popular front runner for the next
>>>> election.
>>> So merit is intrinsic to popularity? When Carter or Clinton were the most
>>> popular candidates were you singing their praises?
>> Does King Bill still hold the record for sending the most troops to the
>> most places than any other president?
>That's sort of a non-sequitur, isn't it? What am I supposed to say now? Does
>William Howard Taft still hold the record for requiring the widest car door?
>miguel
>--
>Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
>Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
WHAT? People are bashing President Bush for sending troops to Iraq. I believe
King Bill sent troops to many, many unusual places to "help out".
No libs bashed him with the intensity that they are attacking President Bush.
Gary Nichols
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------
All countries are good. Some are better than others. That's all.
All people are good. Some are better than others. That's all.
Gary Nichols
>From: [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
>Date: 6/1/03 02:41 Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id:
>gatsby wrote:
>> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>> Tony B wrote:
>>>> I would watch out for the loud-mouthed idiots we have here, though. They
>>>> are in the minority but claim to speak for everyone. You will constantly
>>>> hear them bring up Fox news for some reason and bash it, but Fox is the
>>>> most popular news and Bush is the most popular front runner for the next
>>>> election.
>>> So merit is intrinsic to popularity? When Carter or Clinton were the most
>>> popular candidates were you singing their praises?
>> Does King Bill still hold the record for sending the most troops to the
>> most places than any other president?
>That's sort of a non-sequitur, isn't it? What am I supposed to say now? Does
>William Howard Taft still hold the record for requiring the widest car door?
>miguel
>--
>Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
>Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
WHAT? People are bashing President Bush for sending troops to Iraq. I believe
King Bill sent troops to many, many unusual places to "help out".
No libs bashed him with the intensity that they are attacking President Bush.
Gary Nichols
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------
All countries are good. Some are better than others. That's all.
All people are good. Some are better than others. That's all.
Gary Nichols
Jun 1st 2003, 4:35 am
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
gatsby wrote:
> WHAT? People are bashing President Bush for sending troops to Iraq. I
> believe King Bill sent troops to many, many unusual places to "help out".
> No libs bashed him with the intensity that they are attacking President Bush.
Perhaps they found the justifications less flimsy. You know, I can go around
kicking cats and dogs, and people will think I'm a jerk. You can kick a
soccer ball and people will think you're a genius? Are they being unfair to
me? Or is it possibly more nuanced than that?
But in any case, I just didn't see how that point followed from the
conversation.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> WHAT? People are bashing President Bush for sending troops to Iraq. I
> believe King Bill sent troops to many, many unusual places to "help out".
> No libs bashed him with the intensity that they are attacking President Bush.
Perhaps they found the justifications less flimsy. You know, I can go around
kicking cats and dogs, and people will think I'm a jerk. You can kick a
soccer ball and people will think you're a genius? Are they being unfair to
me? Or is it possibly more nuanced than that?
But in any case, I just didn't see how that point followed from the
conversation.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 1st 2003, 11:20 am
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
John Stolz wrote:
> Bush and Blair
> told us it was about WMD - they lied, sadly the US media don't seem to think
> that's very important.
The United Nations said there was WMD in Iraq. If Bush and Blair lied,
so did the whole world. It wasn't about whether there were WMD in Iraq,
but the means in containing them was the issue. So even if there are no
WMD in Iraq, a good side effect is a more stable world and the Iraqi
people are freed from a dictatorship. A lot better than starving and
suppressing the Iraq people for another 12 years.
This is what I mean. These people nitpicking over WMD just don't have
their priorities in order. They are sore losers because hundreds of
thousands weren't killed like THEY lied about.
> Bush and Blair
> told us it was about WMD - they lied, sadly the US media don't seem to think
> that's very important.
The United Nations said there was WMD in Iraq. If Bush and Blair lied,
so did the whole world. It wasn't about whether there were WMD in Iraq,
but the means in containing them was the issue. So even if there are no
WMD in Iraq, a good side effect is a more stable world and the Iraqi
people are freed from a dictatorship. A lot better than starving and
suppressing the Iraq people for another 12 years.
This is what I mean. These people nitpicking over WMD just don't have
their priorities in order. They are sore losers because hundreds of
thousands weren't killed like THEY lied about.
Jun 1st 2003, 11:22 am
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
Miguel Cruz wrote:
> But in any case, I just didn't see how that point followed from the
> conversation.
>
That's because you're blind hate for Bush won't let you.
> But in any case, I just didn't see how that point followed from the
> conversation.
>
That's because you're blind hate for Bush won't let you.
Jun 1st 2003, 11:44 am
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
[email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote in message news:...
> gatsby wrote:
> > WHAT? People are bashing President Bush for sending troops to Iraq. I
> > believe King Bill sent troops to many, many unusual places to "help out".
> >
> > No libs bashed him with the intensity that they are attacking President Bush.
>
> Perhaps they found the justifications less flimsy. You know, I can go around
> kicking cats and dogs, and people will think I'm a jerk. You can kick a
> soccer ball and people will think you're a genius? Are they being unfair to
> me? Or is it possibly more nuanced than that?
>
> But in any case, I just didn't see how that point followed from the
> conversation.
>
> miguel
I tak it bak. Your nt funney aymoore. Your jst piking on me. Beside arent
you from a place called kanyda? Wear the knights are long and the men r short?
Chers
Gay Nichos
> gatsby wrote:
> > WHAT? People are bashing President Bush for sending troops to Iraq. I
> > believe King Bill sent troops to many, many unusual places to "help out".
> >
> > No libs bashed him with the intensity that they are attacking President Bush.
>
> Perhaps they found the justifications less flimsy. You know, I can go around
> kicking cats and dogs, and people will think I'm a jerk. You can kick a
> soccer ball and people will think you're a genius? Are they being unfair to
> me? Or is it possibly more nuanced than that?
>
> But in any case, I just didn't see how that point followed from the
> conversation.
>
> miguel
I tak it bak. Your nt funney aymoore. Your jst piking on me. Beside arent
you from a place called kanyda? Wear the knights are long and the men r short?
Chers
Gay Nichos
Jun 1st 2003, 1:34 pm
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
>sadly the US media don't seem to think
>> that's very important.
I dont think it was that important as well. Who cares if they had the weapons
or not. The beauty of it was they they got their asses kicked and are out of
power. We need to get on with the war now and do Iran and Syria
Never Forgive, Never Forget
9-11-01
>> that's very important.
I dont think it was that important as well. Who cares if they had the weapons
or not. The beauty of it was they they got their asses kicked and are out of
power. We need to get on with the war now and do Iran and Syria
Never Forgive, Never Forget
9-11-01
Jun 1st 2003, 2:49 pm
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
On Sat, 31 May 2003 08:09:38 GMT, Tony B
wrote:
>Cadillac_Jones wrote:
>> Even if your speaking French I doubt half the people you meet on
>> the street would be even able to tell what language you are speaking.
>You must be a total idiot if you can't understand French.
>>
>> Don't worry about it. Anyone who would be likely to give you a hard
>> time would be huddled in front of their TV waiting for the next FOX
>> News bulletin to tell them who they should hate next.
>ANd again, why the Fox bashing? Because they are number one in the
>ratings and represent the majority of Americans?? Why is it the
>minorities in the US - gays and liberals - have the biggest fattest
>mouths in here??
>You're in the minority dickwad, deal with it. Who's gonna beat Bush,
>Sharpton? LMAO at such a pitiful party and idiot.
Nice job, dickwad. I probably the only gay, liberal that voted for
Dole.
Just because I'm a Republican doesn't mean I have to toe the Bush
Party line and listen to inaccurate crap spewed out by a "news"
channel who's parent company brought us "Alien Autopsy".
"I'm the luckiest man in the world. I have a cigarette
lighter and a wife...and they both work!"
wrote:
>Cadillac_Jones wrote:
>> Even if your speaking French I doubt half the people you meet on
>> the street would be even able to tell what language you are speaking.
>You must be a total idiot if you can't understand French.
>>
>> Don't worry about it. Anyone who would be likely to give you a hard
>> time would be huddled in front of their TV waiting for the next FOX
>> News bulletin to tell them who they should hate next.
>ANd again, why the Fox bashing? Because they are number one in the
>ratings and represent the majority of Americans?? Why is it the
>minorities in the US - gays and liberals - have the biggest fattest
>mouths in here??
>You're in the minority dickwad, deal with it. Who's gonna beat Bush,
>Sharpton? LMAO at such a pitiful party and idiot.
Nice job, dickwad. I probably the only gay, liberal that voted for
Dole.
Just because I'm a Republican doesn't mean I have to toe the Bush
Party line and listen to inaccurate crap spewed out by a "news"
channel who's parent company brought us "Alien Autopsy".
"I'm the luckiest man in the world. I have a cigarette
lighter and a wife...and they both work!"
Jun 1st 2003, 8:35 pm
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
Following up to NC Penguin
>> Are you referring to French wine being overpriced? Surely, you're
>> mistaken. French wine is cheaper in France than overseas unless you're
>> talking about drinking some serious wines in Michelin 3 star
>> restaurants.
Sorry, no, i'm thinking of French wine being expensive compared to
other countries here in London, when in France there seems little
option, and who would want any.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>> Are you referring to French wine being overpriced? Surely, you're
>> mistaken. French wine is cheaper in France than overseas unless you're
>> talking about drinking some serious wines in Michelin 3 star
>> restaurants.
Sorry, no, i'm thinking of French wine being expensive compared to
other countries here in London, when in France there seems little
option, and who would want any.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Jun 1st 2003, 8:35 pm
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it safe for a Frenchman to visit the US at this time?
Following up to Tony B
>> I have indeed vowed to never eat a burger, US style deep pan pizza or
>> hot dog again.
>I guess it means you would rather be Sieg Hieling to Deustchland Uber
>Alles right now?
No, it means I dont like burgers, US style pizza and hot dogs :-)
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>> I have indeed vowed to never eat a burger, US style deep pan pizza or
>> hot dog again.
>I guess it means you would rather be Sieg Hieling to Deustchland Uber
>Alles right now?
No, it means I dont like burgers, US style pizza and hot dogs :-)
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
