Sacramento to London Options?
Sep 22nd 2004, 10:02 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:56:49 -0400, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:
>AJC wrote:
>> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
>> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
>> the 'generous' US carriers?
>You have to agree that set pre-selection is far less common in airlines
>outside of north america versus north american airlines (except low cost carriers).
>Also, outside north america, luggage allowance is more restricted. (although
>most airlines do provice the 2PC system for flights to/from north america).
>So there is a case to say that european airlines are more stingy.
That is the point I am making. Stinginess may be a contributing factor
in the relatively better health of European airlines compared with
their North American counterparts.
--==++AJC++==--
>AJC wrote:
>> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
>> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
>> the 'generous' US carriers?
>You have to agree that set pre-selection is far less common in airlines
>outside of north america versus north american airlines (except low cost carriers).
>Also, outside north america, luggage allowance is more restricted. (although
>most airlines do provice the 2PC system for flights to/from north america).
>So there is a case to say that european airlines are more stingy.
That is the point I am making. Stinginess may be a contributing factor
in the relatively better health of European airlines compared with
their North American counterparts.
--==++AJC++==--
Sep 23rd 2004, 12:49 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
In article <[email protected]>, AJC
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:56:49 -0400, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >AJC wrote:
> >> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
> >> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
> >> the 'generous' US carriers?
> >
> >You have to agree that set pre-selection is far less common in airlines
> >outside of north america versus north american airlines (except low cost
> >carriers).
> >
> >Also, outside north america, luggage allowance is more restricted. (although
> >most airlines do provice the 2PC system for flights to/from north america).
> >
> >So there is a case to say that european airlines are more stingy.
>
> That is the point I am making. Stinginess may be a contributing factor
> in the relatively better health of European airlines compared with
> their North American counterparts.
Could be, but U.S. domestic has many more years of vigorous competition
to erode profit margins. Carry-ons and seat assignment have not been
one of the casualties, it's a reflection of 'service' level that is
demanded.
That said, the best financial performer in the U.S. does not give
seating assignments.
I'm a fanatic about my seat assignments, even in Biz class I have a
preferred specific seat.
jay
Thu Sep 23, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
> --==++AJC++==--
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:56:49 -0400, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >AJC wrote:
> >> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
> >> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
> >> the 'generous' US carriers?
> >
> >You have to agree that set pre-selection is far less common in airlines
> >outside of north america versus north american airlines (except low cost
> >carriers).
> >
> >Also, outside north america, luggage allowance is more restricted. (although
> >most airlines do provice the 2PC system for flights to/from north america).
> >
> >So there is a case to say that european airlines are more stingy.
>
> That is the point I am making. Stinginess may be a contributing factor
> in the relatively better health of European airlines compared with
> their North American counterparts.
Could be, but U.S. domestic has many more years of vigorous competition
to erode profit margins. Carry-ons and seat assignment have not been
one of the casualties, it's a reflection of 'service' level that is
demanded.
That said, the best financial performer in the U.S. does not give
seating assignments.
I'm a fanatic about my seat assignments, even in Biz class I have a
preferred specific seat.
jay
Thu Sep 23, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
> --==++AJC++==--
Sep 23rd 2004, 1:13 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
> the 'generous' US carriers?
You mean like Alitalia?
Letting you book seats in advance does not seem that it would substantially
affect the bottom line. (except of course the passengers' ;-D )
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
> the 'generous' US carriers?
You mean like Alitalia?
Letting you book seats in advance does not seem that it would substantially
affect the bottom line. (except of course the passengers' ;-D )
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Sep 23rd 2004, 2:32 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:13:16 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
>> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
>> the 'generous' US carriers?
>You mean like Alitalia?
Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
--==++AJC++==--
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
>> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
>> the 'generous' US carriers?
>You mean like Alitalia?
Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
--==++AJC++==--
Sep 23rd 2004, 2:34 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>You mean like Alitalia?
> Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
> compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
Ocean. The line between success and failure in the airline industry is quite
fine.
And you snipped the important point of my post, which is that allowing early
seat selection hardly affects an airlines bottom line.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
>>You mean like Alitalia?
> Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
> compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
Ocean. The line between success and failure in the airline industry is quite
fine.
And you snipped the important point of my post, which is that allowing early
seat selection hardly affects an airlines bottom line.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Sep 23rd 2004, 2:50 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:32:10 +0200, AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:13:16 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
>>> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
>>> the 'generous' US carriers?
>>You mean like Alitalia?
>Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
>compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
Do you mean KLM?
>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:13:16 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
>>> 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
>>> the 'generous' US carriers?
>>You mean like Alitalia?
>Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
>compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
Do you mean KLM?
Sep 23rd 2004, 3:06 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>You mean like Alitalia?
>> Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
>> compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
>The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
>Ocean.
The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
being in such dire straits.
>The line between success and failure in the airline industry is quite
>fine.
And it isn't in many industries?
>And you snipped the important point of my post, which is that allowing early
>seat selection hardly affects an airlines bottom line.
It may be important to you, but not to me. You snipped the important
part of the previous posts where I was clearly responding to Miguel's
general comments about European carriers being stingy "about all sorts
of things". My point was obviously that their stinginess "about all
sorts of things" may contibute to their success compared with their US
competition.
--==++AJC++==--
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>You mean like Alitalia?
>> Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
>> compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
>The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
>Ocean.
The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
being in such dire straits.
>The line between success and failure in the airline industry is quite
>fine.
And it isn't in many industries?
>And you snipped the important point of my post, which is that allowing early
>seat selection hardly affects an airlines bottom line.
It may be important to you, but not to me. You snipped the important
part of the previous posts where I was clearly responding to Miguel's
general comments about European carriers being stingy "about all sorts
of things". My point was obviously that their stinginess "about all
sorts of things" may contibute to their success compared with their US
competition.
--==++AJC++==--
Sep 23rd 2004, 3:25 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:06:08 +0200, AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
>>Ocean.
>The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
>bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
>from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
>being in such dire straits.
Two -- count em, two -- U.S. carriers are in various stages of
bankruptcy. While Delta's in a precarious position, its problems
aren't as severe as United's became and unions are more willing to
work things out there. Keep in mind United was representative of the
best/worst that employee ownership has to offer. At a certain point,
they just said enough. Smart? Well, that's a matter of opinion. People
who've been through these things always advise them to stay at the
table, but hostilities get in the way sometimes.
Secondly, name me a European carrier that operates on the scale of a
U.S. carrier? How many U.S. cities do European carriers serve? We're
the world's biggest aviation market, so it's a relevant question.
Comparing Europe's industry to the U.S.' is just beyond ludicrous.
>>The line between success and failure in the airline industry is quite
>>fine.
>And it isn't in many industries?
Not nearly as much so. The airline industry is swayed heavily by the
price of oil, the economy, etc. You won't find another industry whose
existence is hanging in the balance over a commodity price increase.
Other industries are much better able to pass that along to customers,
incrementally over time.
>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
>>Ocean.
>The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
>bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
>from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
>being in such dire straits.
Two -- count em, two -- U.S. carriers are in various stages of
bankruptcy. While Delta's in a precarious position, its problems
aren't as severe as United's became and unions are more willing to
work things out there. Keep in mind United was representative of the
best/worst that employee ownership has to offer. At a certain point,
they just said enough. Smart? Well, that's a matter of opinion. People
who've been through these things always advise them to stay at the
table, but hostilities get in the way sometimes.
Secondly, name me a European carrier that operates on the scale of a
U.S. carrier? How many U.S. cities do European carriers serve? We're
the world's biggest aviation market, so it's a relevant question.
Comparing Europe's industry to the U.S.' is just beyond ludicrous.
>>The line between success and failure in the airline industry is quite
>>fine.
>And it isn't in many industries?
Not nearly as much so. The airline industry is swayed heavily by the
price of oil, the economy, etc. You won't find another industry whose
existence is hanging in the balance over a commodity price increase.
Other industries are much better able to pass that along to customers,
incrementally over time.
Sep 23rd 2004, 3:56 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
"nobody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1095933173.ZZPoUyCbSHCfjwummzS5nA@teranews...
> AJC wrote:
> > Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
> > 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
> > the 'generous' US carriers?
> You have to agree that set pre-selection is far less common in airlines
> outside of north america versus north american airlines (except low cost
carriers).
All of the U.S. majors, and many of the low-fares (i.e., ATA, AmericaWest,
Frontier) provide for advance seat selection; AirTran offers it on selected
flights)
> Also, outside north america, luggage allowance is more restricted.
(although
> most airlines do provice the 2PC system for flights to/from north
america).
The 2 piece system is a result of U.S. government regulations.
> So there is a case to say that european airlines are more stingy.
Also, the fact that U.S. low fare carriers still have decent legroom (32-34"
compared to 29" on RyanAir, EasyJet, etc.), complimentary beverages,
pretzels/peanuts, etc.
news:1095933173.ZZPoUyCbSHCfjwummzS5nA@teranews...
> AJC wrote:
> > Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
> > 'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
> > the 'generous' US carriers?
> You have to agree that set pre-selection is far less common in airlines
> outside of north america versus north american airlines (except low cost
carriers).
All of the U.S. majors, and many of the low-fares (i.e., ATA, AmericaWest,
Frontier) provide for advance seat selection; AirTran offers it on selected
flights)
> Also, outside north america, luggage allowance is more restricted.
(although
> most airlines do provice the 2PC system for flights to/from north
america).
The 2 piece system is a result of U.S. government regulations.
> So there is a case to say that european airlines are more stingy.
Also, the fact that U.S. low fare carriers still have decent legroom (32-34"
compared to 29" on RyanAir, EasyJet, etc.), complimentary beverages,
pretzels/peanuts, etc.
Sep 23rd 2004, 4:01 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
Juliana L Holm wrote:
> In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
>>'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
>>the 'generous' US carriers?
> You mean like Alitalia?
> Letting you book seats in advance does not seem that it would substantially
> affect the bottom line. (except of course the passengers' ;-D )
It does require significant infrastructure investment, however.
> In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Is it not possible, that there is a link between the fact that the
>>'mean stingy' European carriers are generally in a better shape than
>>the 'generous' US carriers?
> You mean like Alitalia?
> Letting you book seats in advance does not seem that it would substantially
> affect the bottom line. (except of course the passengers' ;-D )
It does require significant infrastructure investment, however.
Sep 23rd 2004, 4:03 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
"Juliana L Holm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>You mean like Alitalia?
> >>
> > Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
> > compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
> The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
> Ocean. The line between success and failure in the airline industry is
quite
> fine.
> And you snipped the important point of my post, which is that allowing
early
> seat selection hardly affects an airlines bottom line.
An argument can be made that it does. Southwest, for example, says that not
offering seat selection causes their passengers to check in early (to get in
the first boarding group), and, as a result, it takes them less time to
board their planes. This allows quicker turnarounds, which means that they
get more use of their equipment during the day. Since an airplane only
makes money when it is flying, this results in significantly lower operating
costs.
That being said, I'll still choose the airline with advance seat selection
over one without any time.
> --
> Julie
> **********
> Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
> http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
news:[email protected]...
> In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>You mean like Alitalia?
> >>
> > Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
> > compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
> The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
> Ocean. The line between success and failure in the airline industry is
quite
> fine.
> And you snipped the important point of my post, which is that allowing
early
> seat selection hardly affects an airlines bottom line.
An argument can be made that it does. Southwest, for example, says that not
offering seat selection causes their passengers to check in early (to get in
the first boarding group), and, as a result, it takes them less time to
board their planes. This allows quicker turnarounds, which means that they
get more use of their equipment during the day. Since an airplane only
makes money when it is flying, this results in significantly lower operating
costs.
That being said, I'll still choose the airline with advance seat selection
over one without any time.
> --
> Julie
> **********
> Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
> http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Sep 23rd 2004, 4:06 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
"AJC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>You mean like Alitalia?
> >>>
> >
> >> Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
> >> compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
> >
> >The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
> >Ocean.
> The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
> bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
> from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
> being in such dire straits.
Over last few years:
1. Sabena - bankrupt and shut down;
2. Swissair - bankrupt and shut down;
3. Aer Lingus - saved only by re-inventing itself as a low cost/low fare
airline;
4. Alitalia - on the verge of bankruptcy
5. Olympic - on the verge of bankruptcy.
There are some European carriers in dire straits too.
> >The line between success and failure in the airline industry is quite
> >fine.
> And it isn't in many industries?
> >
> >And you snipped the important point of my post, which is that allowing
early
> >seat selection hardly affects an airlines bottom line.
> It may be important to you, but not to me. You snipped the important
> part of the previous posts where I was clearly responding to Miguel's
> general comments about European carriers being stingy "about all sorts
> of things". My point was obviously that their stinginess "about all
> sorts of things" may contibute to their success compared with their US
> competition.
> --==++AJC++==--
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >In rec.travel.europe AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>You mean like Alitalia?
> >>>
> >
> >> Hardly. It would be pointless to pick an unrepresentative example to
> >> compare with the state that many of the major US carriers are in.
> >
> >The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
> >Ocean.
> The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
> bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
> from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
> being in such dire straits.
Over last few years:
1. Sabena - bankrupt and shut down;
2. Swissair - bankrupt and shut down;
3. Aer Lingus - saved only by re-inventing itself as a low cost/low fare
airline;
4. Alitalia - on the verge of bankruptcy
5. Olympic - on the verge of bankruptcy.
There are some European carriers in dire straits too.
> >The line between success and failure in the airline industry is quite
> >fine.
> And it isn't in many industries?
> >
> >And you snipped the important point of my post, which is that allowing
early
> >seat selection hardly affects an airlines bottom line.
> It may be important to you, but not to me. You snipped the important
> part of the previous posts where I was clearly responding to Miguel's
> general comments about European carriers being stingy "about all sorts
> of things". My point was obviously that their stinginess "about all
> sorts of things" may contibute to their success compared with their US
> competition.
> --==++AJC++==--
Sep 23rd 2004, 4:11 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
"Cyrus Afzali" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:06:08 +0200, AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
>>>Ocean.
>>The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
>>bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
>>from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
>>being in such dire straits.
> Two -- count em, two -- U.S. carriers are in various stages of
> bankruptcy. While Delta's in a precarious position, its problems
> aren't as severe as United's became and unions are more willing to
> work things out there. Keep in mind United was representative of the
> best/worst that employee ownership has to offer. At a certain point,
> they just said enough. Smart? Well, that's a matter of opinion. People
> who've been through these things always advise them to stay at the
> table, but hostilities get in the way sometimes.
US Airways have also filed for banruptcy again
so its at least 3
> Secondly, name me a European carrier that operates on the scale of a
> U.S. carrier? How many U.S. cities do European carriers serve?
How many European cities do US carriers serve ?
European carriers do most of their business on
overseas flights.
> We're
> the world's biggest aviation market, so it's a relevant question.
> Comparing Europe's industry to the U.S.' is just beyond ludicrous.
The bureau of transportation statistics seems to disagee
In 2001 there were some 600m US domestic passenger trips
while within the EU there were some 400m air passenger
trips.
The markets arent quite as mismatched as you believe.
Keith
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:06:08 +0200, AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
>>>Ocean.
>>The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
>>bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
>>from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
>>being in such dire straits.
> Two -- count em, two -- U.S. carriers are in various stages of
> bankruptcy. While Delta's in a precarious position, its problems
> aren't as severe as United's became and unions are more willing to
> work things out there. Keep in mind United was representative of the
> best/worst that employee ownership has to offer. At a certain point,
> they just said enough. Smart? Well, that's a matter of opinion. People
> who've been through these things always advise them to stay at the
> table, but hostilities get in the way sometimes.
US Airways have also filed for banruptcy again
so its at least 3
> Secondly, name me a European carrier that operates on the scale of a
> U.S. carrier? How many U.S. cities do European carriers serve?
How many European cities do US carriers serve ?
European carriers do most of their business on
overseas flights.
> We're
> the world's biggest aviation market, so it's a relevant question.
> Comparing Europe's industry to the U.S.' is just beyond ludicrous.
The bureau of transportation statistics seems to disagee
In 2001 there were some 600m US domestic passenger trips
while within the EU there were some 400m air passenger
trips.
The markets arent quite as mismatched as you believe.
Keith
Sep 23rd 2004, 5:52 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:11:38 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Cyrus Afzali" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:06:08 +0200, AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
>>>>Ocean.
>>>The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
>>>bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
>>>from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
>>>being in such dire straits.
>> Two -- count em, two -- U.S. carriers are in various stages of
>> bankruptcy. While Delta's in a precarious position, its problems
>> aren't as severe as United's became and unions are more willing to
>> work things out there. Keep in mind United was representative of the
>> best/worst that employee ownership has to offer. At a certain point,
>> they just said enough. Smart? Well, that's a matter of opinion. People
>> who've been through these things always advise them to stay at the
>> table, but hostilities get in the way sometimes.
>US Airways have also filed for banruptcy again
>so its at least 3
Uhhh, no. It's 2. Only US Airways and United are in bankruptcy.
Delta's shaky, but it is not a bankrupt company at this point.
>> Secondly, name me a European carrier that operates on the scale of a
>> U.S. carrier? How many U.S. cities do European carriers serve?
>How many European cities do US carriers serve ?
>European carriers do most of their business on
>overseas flights.
Which means you can't make a comparison between our two markets. It's
a totally different animal that for years benefitted enormously from
state ownership or subsidies.
>> We're
>> the world's biggest aviation market, so it's a relevant question.
>> Comparing Europe's industry to the U.S.' is just beyond ludicrous.
>The bureau of transportation statistics seems to disagee
>In 2001 there were some 600m US domestic passenger trips
>while within the EU there were some 400m air passenger
>trips.
>The markets arent quite as mismatched as you believe.
Believe what you want. You're totaling stats for an entire continent
to try and make an argument about how that compares with one
country's. It's absolutely, positively not a valid comparison. And
even then, it falls short.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Cyrus Afzali" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:06:08 +0200, AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>The point is that there are strong and weak carriers on both sides of the
>>>>Ocean.
>>>The point is that major US airlines are in various stages of
>>>bankruptcy, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, unable to get credit
>>>from their caterers, and so on. The industry in Europe is nowhere near
>>>being in such dire straits.
>> Two -- count em, two -- U.S. carriers are in various stages of
>> bankruptcy. While Delta's in a precarious position, its problems
>> aren't as severe as United's became and unions are more willing to
>> work things out there. Keep in mind United was representative of the
>> best/worst that employee ownership has to offer. At a certain point,
>> they just said enough. Smart? Well, that's a matter of opinion. People
>> who've been through these things always advise them to stay at the
>> table, but hostilities get in the way sometimes.
>US Airways have also filed for banruptcy again
>so its at least 3
Uhhh, no. It's 2. Only US Airways and United are in bankruptcy.
Delta's shaky, but it is not a bankrupt company at this point.
>> Secondly, name me a European carrier that operates on the scale of a
>> U.S. carrier? How many U.S. cities do European carriers serve?
>How many European cities do US carriers serve ?
>European carriers do most of their business on
>overseas flights.
Which means you can't make a comparison between our two markets. It's
a totally different animal that for years benefitted enormously from
state ownership or subsidies.
>> We're
>> the world's biggest aviation market, so it's a relevant question.
>> Comparing Europe's industry to the U.S.' is just beyond ludicrous.
>The bureau of transportation statistics seems to disagee
>In 2001 there were some 600m US domestic passenger trips
>while within the EU there were some 400m air passenger
>trips.
>The markets arent quite as mismatched as you believe.
Believe what you want. You're totaling stats for an entire continent
to try and make an argument about how that compares with one
country's. It's absolutely, positively not a valid comparison. And
even then, it falls short.
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:10 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Reserving specific Transatlantic seats in advance?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:45:03 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley)
wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:03:36 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>That being said, I'll still choose the airline with advance seat selection
>>over one without any time.
>I'll choose one without, I hate that it takes so long to board, that
>just feels like dead time...
My experience is that you don't always get the seats you
reserved.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:03:36 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>That being said, I'll still choose the airline with advance seat selection
>>over one without any time.
>I'll choose one without, I hate that it takes so long to board, that
>just feels like dead time...
My experience is that you don't always get the seats you
reserved.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
