Jacques Chirac

Jonathan wrote:

    >When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    >of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    >we get paid public holidays.
    >In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    >countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    >they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    >productive countries in the world.
    >If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    >such a system and not lose their mind???
    >Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    >highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    >that no matter how much they paid me.

Everybody around the world knows that Americans are highly neurotic
and hysterical - and now you have discovered the reason.

Americans live to work. The rest of the people in the world work to
live.

Americans don't have enough vacation time to travel to other countries
and see how other people live so they think they live in "the best
country in the world" and other such propaganda that their government
feeds them. They don't know that many millions of people live better,
especially in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, etc.

Americans are ignorant and their government likes it that way, it
makes it easier to brainwash them.

Nospam

    > Everybody around the world knows that Americans are highly
    > neurotic and hysterical - and now you have discovered the reason.

That is hardly the sole reason, but you have the right idea. Religion
is much more of a factor.

    > Americans live to work. The rest of the people in the world work
    > to live.

It is not so simple. Those of us who wish to take more vacation
time often end up unemployed because our workaholic bosses
deem us to have a bad attitude. And those of us unlucky to be
married to a typical American woman have no choice but to work
long hours to support their lifestyle of SUVs, large house full of
trinkets, never-ending gifts for spoiled children, etc.

    > Americans are ignorant and their government likes it that way, it
    > makes it easier to brainwash them.

True but you ignored the major effect American TV has on the
population. That is a major thesis by itself.


Pete

Phyl

Jacques Chirac wrote:

    > Jonathan wrote:
    >
    >
    >>When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    >>of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    >>we get paid public holidays.
    >>In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    >>countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    >>they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    >>productive countries in the world.
    >>If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    >>such a system and not lose their mind???
    >>Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    >>highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    >>that no matter how much they paid me.
    >
    >
    > Everybody around the world knows that Americans are highly neurotic
    > and hysterical - and now you have discovered the reason.
    >
    > Americans live to work. The rest of the people in the world work to
    > live.
    >
    > Americans don't have enough vacation time to travel to other countries
    > and see how other people live so they think they live in "the best
    > country in the world" and other such propaganda that their government
    > feeds them. They don't know that many millions of people live better,
    > especially in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, etc.
    >
    > Americans are ignorant and their government likes it that way, it
    > makes it easier to brainwash them.


My husband gets six weeks of vacation, I get four.

Not ignorant, not brainwashed. Next?


--
Phyl

"You can fool some of the people all of the time and those are the ones
you want to concentrate on." George W. Bush -- Gridiron Dinner,
Washington, D.C., 3/31/01.

Sara

Phyl wrote:
    > Jacques Chirac wrote:
    >
    >> Jonathan wrote:
    >>> When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    >>> of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    >>> we get paid public holidays.
    >>> In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    >>> countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    >>> they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    >>> productive countries in the world.
    >>> If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    >>> such a system and not lose their mind???
    >>> Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    >>> highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    >>> that no matter how much they paid me.
    >> Everybody around the world knows that Americans are highly neurotic
    >> and hysterical - and now you have discovered the reason.
    >> Americans live to work. The rest of the people in the world work to
    >> live.
    >> Americans don't have enough vacation time to travel to other countries
    >> and see how other people live so they think they live in "the best
    >> country in the world" and other such propaganda that their government
    >> feeds them. They don't know that many millions of people live better,
    >> especially in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, etc.
    >> Americans are ignorant and their government likes it that way, it
    >> makes it easier to brainwash them.
    >
    >
    >
    > My husband gets six weeks of vacation, I get four.
    >
    > Not ignorant, not brainwashed. Next?


That is an exception, not the rule (two weeks is the average). I am not
condoning the stupid comment about Americans, but it is well known that
we get on the average get less vacation and work longer hours than any
other industrial country. Americans call a lot of vacation time being
lazy and unproductive, Europeans call it quality of life. There has
always been very different views on "quality of life" between Europeans
and the US.

I remember seeing a study that was done asking people if they could
choose between getting a few more weeks off or getting a few extra weeks
salary which would they take? Americans took the money.
    >
    >

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in634664.shtml

http://www.post-gazette.com/lifestyl...tion0824p1.asp

http://money.howstuffworks.com/benefits3.htm

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate...ts/6049680.htm

http://www.commonground.ca/iss/04101...9_Europe.shtml
--
"Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all
across this country.'' -- George Bush, Sept 7

Phyl

Sara wrote:

    > Phyl wrote:
    >
    >> Jacques Chirac wrote:
    >>> Jonathan wrote:
    >>>> When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    >>>> of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    >>>> we get paid public holidays.
    >>>> In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    >>>> countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    >>>> they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    >>>> productive countries in the world.
    >>>> If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    >>>> such a system and not lose their mind???
    >>>> Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    >>>> highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    >>>> that no matter how much they paid me.
    >>> Everybody around the world knows that Americans are highly neurotic
    >>> and hysterical - and now you have discovered the reason.
    >>> Americans live to work. The rest of the people in the world work to
    >>> live.
    >>> Americans don't have enough vacation time to travel to other countries
    >>> and see how other people live so they think they live in "the best
    >>> country in the world" and other such propaganda that their government
    >>> feeds them. They don't know that many millions of people live better,
    >>> especially in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, etc.
    >>> Americans are ignorant and their government likes it that way, it
    >>> makes it easier to brainwash them.
    >> My husband gets six weeks of vacation, I get four.
    >> Not ignorant, not brainwashed. Next?
    >
    >
    >
    > That is an exception, not the rule (two weeks is the average). I am not
    > condoning the stupid comment about Americans, but it is well known that
    > we get on the average get less vacation and work longer hours than any
    > other industrial country. Americans call a lot of vacation time being
    > lazy and unproductive, Europeans call it quality of life. There has
    > always been very different views on "quality of life" between Europeans
    > and the US.
    >
    > I remember seeing a study that was done asking people if they could
    > choose between getting a few more weeks off or getting a few extra weeks
    > salary which would they take? Americans took the money.


I agree that we are the exception. I still didn't like the comment about
stupid Americans.

--
Phyl

"You can fool some of the people all of the time and those are the ones
you want to concentrate on." George W. Bush -- Gridiron Dinner,
Washington, D.C., 3/31/01.

Nospam

    >> My husband gets six weeks of vacation, I get four.
    >> Not ignorant, not brainwashed. Next?
    > That is an exception, not the rule (two weeks is the average).

And almost no company starts new employees with more than two
weeks. If you try to negotiate more, you are classified as lazy or
a bad employee and they will not hire you. The OP probably has
worked at her company for ten years or more.

    > I remember seeing a study that was done asking people if they
    > could choose between getting a few more weeks off or getting a
    > few extra weeks salary which would they take? Americans took
    > the money.

I have worked for companies where many people work through
their vacations, and of course the implied thought is "You should
work through your vacation, too." Then these losers whine about
them being martyrs.


Pete

Miguel Cruz

nospam <[email protected]> wrote:
    > And almost no company starts new employees with more than two
    > weeks. If you try to negotiate more, you are classified as lazy or
    > a bad employee and they will not hire you.

Have you tried? I always negotiate for more before I accept a job. A few
years ago I managed 8(!). Sadly the dotcom-boom HR pushover days are behind
us.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Rod Speed

"Sara" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Phyl wrote:
    >> Jacques Chirac wrote:
    >>> Jonathan wrote:
    >>>> When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    >>>> of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    >>>> we get paid public holidays.
    >>>> In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    >>>> countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    >>>> they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    >>>> productive countries in the world.
    >>>> If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    >>>> such a system and not lose their mind???
    >>>> Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    >>>> highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    >>>> that no matter how much they paid me.
    >>> Everybody around the world knows that Americans are highly neurotic
    >>> and hysterical - and now you have discovered the reason.
    >>> Americans live to work. The rest of the people in the world work to
    >>> live.
    >>> Americans don't have enough vacation time to travel to other countries
    >>> and see how other people live so they think they live in "the best
    >>> country in the world" and other such propaganda that their government
    >>> feeds them. They don't know that many millions of people live better,
    >>> especially in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, etc.
    >>> Americans are ignorant and their government likes it that way, it
    >>> makes it easier to brainwash them.
    >> My husband gets six weeks of vacation, I get four.
    >> Not ignorant, not brainwashed. Next?

    > That is an exception, not the rule (two weeks is the average).

I doubt it, particularly with those who actually do get vacations, as
opposed to those employed casually or who work for themselves etc.

    > I am not condoning the stupid comment about Americans, but it is well known
    > that we get on the average get less vacation and work longer hours than any
    > other industrial country.

That is just plain wrong, most obviously with Japan.

    > Americans call a lot of vacation time being lazy and unproductive, Europeans
    > call it quality of life.

Its nothing like as black and white as that.

    > There has always been very different views on "quality of life" between
    > Europeans and the US.

Wrong again, particularly back say 150 years ago.

    > I remember seeing a study that was done asking people if they could choose
    > between getting a few more weeks off or getting a few extra weeks salary which
    > would they take? Americans took the money.

But clearly quite a few choose not to. And lets not forget the 60s.

    > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in634664.shtml
    > http://www.post-gazette.com/lifestyl...tion0824p1.asp
    > http://money.howstuffworks.com/benefits3.htm
    > http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate...ts/6049680.htm
    > http://www.commonground.ca/iss/04101...9_Europe.shtml

Auntie Em

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 04:38:08 GMT, "nospam" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Everybody around the world knows that Americans are highly
    >> neurotic and hysterical - and now you have discovered the reason.
    >That is hardly the sole reason, but you have the right idea. Religion
    >is much more of a factor.
    >> Americans live to work. The rest of the people in the world work
    >> to live.
    >It is not so simple. Those of us who wish to take more vacation
    >time often end up unemployed because our workaholic bosses
    >deem us to have a bad attitude. And those of us unlucky to be
    >married to a typical American woman have no choice but to work
    >long hours to support their lifestyle of SUVs, large house full of
    >trinkets, never-ending gifts for spoiled children, etc.
    >> Americans are ignorant and their government likes it that way, it
    >> makes it easier to brainwash them.
    >True but you ignored the major effect American TV has on the
    >population. That is a major thesis by itself.
    >Pete

wow. You guys are awesome. Too bad everybody else hasn't figured it
out yet.

Em

Be careful what you wish for....

Auntie Em

    >My husband gets six weeks of vacation, I get four.
    >Not ignorant, not brainwashed. Next?

Oh really?

So HOW MANY YEARS have you (and your husband), been getting up every
single morning and gone to the same, boring, useless job in order to
obtain these wonderful vacations?

Not brainwashed? Are you so sure about that?

Em
Be careful what you wish for....

Vitaly Shmatikov

In article <[email protected]>, Sara <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> My husband gets six weeks of vacation, I get four.
    >That is an exception, not the rule (two weeks is the average).

Two weeks is the average only for entry-level jobs. Bureau of Labor
Statistics (www.bls.gov) has a ton of data on paid vacation time
(nothing more recent than 1997-98, though). For example, the average
paid vacation time (this doesn't include paid personal leave days and
sick days) after 10 years of service is 16.9 days (almost 3.5 weeks)
for employees in private establishments, 18.6 days for employees of
state and local governments.

For what it's worth, I worked for a couple of private companies in
the US, and both times my vacation started at 15 workdays per year
plus several personal leave days, and increased at the rate of 1-2
days per year.

    >I am not
    >condoning the stupid comment about Americans, but it is well known that
    >we get on the average get less vacation and work longer hours than any
    >other industrial country.

Do Australia and Japan count as industrial countries? The average
worker there works longer hours than in the US.

Frank F. Matthews

Vitaly Shmatikov wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Sara <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>>My husband gets six weeks of vacation, I get four.
    >>That is an exception, not the rule (two weeks is the average).

    > Two weeks is the average only for entry-level jobs. Bureau of Labor
    > Statistics (www.bls.gov) has a ton of data on paid vacation time
    > (nothing more recent than 1997-98, though). For example, the average
    > paid vacation time (this doesn't include paid personal leave days and
    > sick days) after 10 years of service is 16.9 days (almost 3.5 weeks)
    > for employees in private establishments, 18.6 days for employees of
    > state and local governments.
    >
    > For what it's worth, I worked for a couple of private companies in
    > the US, and both times my vacation started at 15 workdays per year
    > plus several personal leave days, and increased at the rate of 1-2
    > days per year.

    >>I am not
    >>condoning the stupid comment about Americans, but it is well known that
    >>we get on the average get less vacation and work longer hours than any
    >>other industrial country.

    > Do Australia and Japan count as industrial countries? The average
    > worker there works longer hours than in the US.

I don't know about Australia but if you check recent data the
US is ahead of Japan.

Georgette Mossbacker

Jacques Chirac <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. .
    > Jonathan wrote:
    >
    > >When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > >of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > >we get paid public holidays.
    > >
    > >In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > >countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > >they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > >productive countries in the world.
    > >
    > >If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > >such a system and not lose their mind???
    > >
    > >Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    > >highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    > >that no matter how much they paid me.
    >
    > Everybody around the world knows that Americans are highly neurotic
    > and hysterical - and now you have discovered the reason.
    >
    > Americans live to work. The rest of the people in the world work to
    > live.
    >
    > Americans don't have enough vacation time to travel to other countries
    > and see how other people live so they think they live in "the best
    > country in the world" and other such propaganda that their government
    > feeds them. They don't know that many millions of people live better,
    > especially in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, etc.
    >
    > Americans are ignorant and their government likes it that way, it
    > makes it easier to brainwash them.

My (tiny) company gives 2 weeks after 1 year and 3 weeks after 2 years
- I also work a 35 hour work week in a salaried position. I usually
spend 2-3 weeks in Italy each year but have no desire to move there.
I hear of the complaints from young people who work there, still
living at home, and pay averaging 800-900 Euro per month, even with a
good education.

We're not the best country in the world but which country is? I like
to enjoy our differences.


gm

nitram

On 30 Oct 2004 14:00:51 -0700, [email protected] (Georgette
Mossbacker) wrote:


    >My (tiny) company gives 2 weeks after 1 year and 3 weeks after 2 years
    >- I also work a 35 hour work week in a salaried position. I usually
    >spend 2-3 weeks in Italy each year but have no desire to move there.
    >I hear of the complaints from young people who work there, still
    >living at home, and pay averaging 800-900 Euro per month, even with a
    >good education.

I discovered the same. Engineers in their forties still living with
mum, because their salary isn't enough to move out.
--
Martin

Vitaly Shmatikov

In article <[email protected]>,
Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Do Australia and Japan count as industrial countries? The average
    >> worker there works longer hours than in the US.
    >I don't know about Australia but if you check recent data the
    >US is ahead of Japan.

I got it from the August 21-27 issue of the Economist that's been
lying around my office. It has a table of average annual hours per
worker for all OECD countries, and lists Australia, New Zealand,
Japan, and Spain ahead of the US. If you don't like the numbers,
complain to OECD (they are credited as the source of the table).