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Price differences for Eurostar.

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Price differences for Eurostar.

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Old Nov 8th 2003, 11:49 am
  #1  
Lennart Petersen
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Default Price differences for Eurostar.

Trying to travel the channel tunnel and new CTRL for the first time and have
some break in dark December I tried some bookings.
Was no problem to find excellent fares on Ryanair Skavsta-Charleroi was
SEK259 and Stansted-Västerås was GBP18.26
The Eurostar was more problematic, heard about some advance prices tried the
Eurostar page http://www.eurostar.com/dctm/jsp/index.jsp
but found only expensive one-way trips 1cl GBP205 and 2clGBP149 wasn't
bargains exactly for a Brussels-London one-way
However I tried SNCB http://www.b-rail.be/internat/E/booking/index.html
and found much more affordable prices 2cl was Euro40 and 1cl was Euro80 21
day advance booking. With the substantial savings on the airtrips I
thought some luxury with a first class trip was justified and booked a such
trip.
So question remains: why are one-way bargains advertised on SNCB but not on
Eurostar itself.
Second question: can't read out any seat allocation on the confirmation.
How are seats allocated on Eurostar ? At check in or.. ? Possible to ask
for a specific seat ?
 
Old Nov 8th 2003, 9:17 pm
  #2  
David Horne
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Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

Lennart Petersen <[email protected]> wrote:

    > So question remains: why are one-way bargains advertised on SNCB but not on
    > Eurostar itself.

Eurostar is under the illusion that it is an airline, operating a
pricing policy that even the airlines have abandoned. I'm always booked
return tickets, but I was pretty sure that one-way tickets from London
were about the same price. That would put it in line with UK pricing
structures, where one way fares are usually almost the same price. In
much of Europe, a return is just double the price of a one-way. The fare
you quotes of 40 euros for a single is _very_ cheap. Maybe it's a
limited special fare?

    > Second question: can't read out any seat allocation on the confirmation.
    > How are seats allocated on Eurostar ? At check in or.. ? Possible to ask
    > for a specific seat ?

You'll have your seat numbers on the ticket. There are no reservation
signs, so if you try to pick a 'better' seat you most likely will have
to move when someone else comes along.

David

--
David Horne- website under re-construction
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
 
Old Nov 9th 2003, 2:59 am
  #3  
P.L.Guillemin
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Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

[email protected] (David Horne) wrote in message news:<1g45j26.194516e1d95i49N%this_address_is_for_ [email protected]>...
    > Lennart Petersen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > So question remains: why are one-way bargains advertised on SNCB but not on
    > > Eurostar itself.
    >
    > Eurostar is under the illusion that it is an airline, operating a
    > pricing policy that even the airlines have abandoned.

Greater London Stations are now full with huge Eurostar posters
boasting:


No seat belts. No restrictions.

Fly Eurostar...


While I agree that there are no seat belts on board of Eurostar (but
who knows, maybe the HSE will have that imposed...), there are
definitely (too many IMHO) restrictions...


I'm always booked
    > return tickets, but I was pretty sure that one-way tickets from London
    > were about the same price.

A return Leisure fare (not Flexi) is always cheaper than the ripp-off
Full fare... I m pretty sure Eurostar loses many seats with people
that reserve 2 Leisure returns just to make one return journey, in
order to avoid the Saturday Night and 14 day maximum stay rule, as
well as the alternative 21-day booking deadline. In other words,
plenty of seats bought £29-49/EUR 39-69 which could be sold a much
higher rates to walk-on travellers...



That would put it in line with UK pricing
    > structures, where one way fares are usually almost the same price.

Let alone all those book-ahead bargain fares, often only available for
return journeys...


In
    > much of Europe, a return is just double the price of a one-way.

Yes, as far as full Open fares are concerned. But some discounts are
only available if you make a return journey.


The fare
    > you quotes of 40 euros for a single is _very_ cheap. Maybe it's a
    > limited special fare?

Probably a Leisure fare, single leg. Eurostar lowest leisure fare is
EUR 79/£ 59 return. But if you now book at least 21 days in advance,
you have the option to buy only one of the 2 legs if you wish so.

Concerning the changing availability of Leisure fares from one country
to another, I suspect some discriminatory pricing. Nothing really new
here: a comparison between opodo.fr and opodo.co.uk will show you very
different fares for the same flight, depending on which side of the
Channel you make your booking... And almost invariably, you will see
that the UK consumer is being ripped off :-((((


    > > Second question: can't read out any seat allocation on the confirmation.
    > > How are seats allocated on Eurostar ? At check in or.. ? Possible to ask
    > > for a specific seat ?
    >
    > You'll have your seat numbers on the ticket. There are no reservation
    > signs, so if you try to pick a 'better' seat you most likely will have
    > to move when someone else comes along.

In Waterloo International, it is however possible to request a
specific seat when booking. But that's only available for Full Fare,
Leisure Flexi and FIP fares. Customers paying other fares can try
their luck, but that is as of discretion, not as of right.


Best regards.

Phil
 
Old Nov 9th 2003, 5:07 pm
  #4  
Hatunen
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Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 00:49:43 GMT, "Lennart Petersen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >So question remains: why are one-way bargains advertised on SNCB but not on
    >Eurostar itself.

I suspect it's because the Eurostar web site is a function of the
UK arm of Eurostar. Note, for instance, that fares from
Paris->London are not shown at http://www.eurostar.com nor
http://www.eurostar.co.uk.

It appears the UK has a separate company for handling Eurostar
while Belgium and France treat it as just another rail service.
it is probably significant that Belgium and France have
nationalized or quasi-nationalized railways, while the UK does
not.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 
Old Nov 9th 2003, 8:53 pm
  #5  
nospamplease
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

[email protected] (David Horne) writes:

    > You'll have your seat numbers on the ticket. There are no reservation
    > signs, so if you try to pick a 'better' seat you most likely will have
    > to move when someone else comes along.

Or perhaps not. When I travelled from Brussels to London a couple of
months ago, there were only about 6 people in the entire carriage, so
we had the pick of the best seats, and nobody asked us to move.
I could see why there was talk at the time of shutting down the
Brussels Eurostar - it really was practically empty on my journey.

(The nicest memory of the journey, since you asked, is the amusement
created by the contrast in linguistic abilities of the train drivers
going out and back. On the way out, the announcements were from a
native Flemish speaker, and were in fluent and smooth English, French
and Flemish. On the way back the announcements were given by an
English speaker from England's West Country. He attempted the French
announcements, but obviously hadn't a clue and didn't speak a word of
French. It sounded as if he was reading the words off the page. It
also sounded as if nobody had ever told him how to go about
pronouncing French words. Painful and hilarious to hear.)

--
-- Chris.
 
Old Nov 9th 2003, 10:22 pm
  #6  
Rian Van Der Borgt
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Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:53:05 +0000, [email protected] wrote:
    >(The nicest memory of the journey, since you asked, is the amusement
    >created by the contrast in linguistic abilities of the train drivers
    >going out and back. On the way out, the announcements were from a
    >native Flemish speaker, and were in fluent and smooth English, French
    >and Flemish.

You mean Dutch.
See also: http://www.belgium.be/ -> Belgium in short

    >On the way back the announcements were given by an
    >English speaker from England's West Country. He attempted the French
    >announcements, but obviously hadn't a clue and didn't speak a word of
    >French. It sounded as if he was reading the words off the page. It
    >also sounded as if nobody had ever told him how to go about
    >pronouncing French words. Painful and hilarious to hear.)

The Flemish staff seem to make the best announcements, followed by the
French-speaking *Belgian* staff, who usually can speak some Dutch. There
are also French "train managers" who don't really speak any other
languages than French, so then it helps if you understand French...

Regards,

Rian

--
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: [email protected] www: http://www.xs4all.be/~rvdborgt/
Fix Outlook Express: http://flash.to/oe-quotefix/
Fix Outlook: http://flash.to/outlook-quotefix/
 
Old Nov 9th 2003, 10:52 pm
  #7  
nospamplease
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

[email protected] (Rian van der Borgt) writes:

    > You mean Dutch.

Sorry - I knew it was Dutch but didn't want to offend any Belgians. Doh!
I'll just call it Dutch in future :-)

--
-- Chris.
 
Old Nov 10th 2003, 2:26 am
  #8  
Irwell
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:53:05 +0000, [email protected] wrote:

    >[email protected] (David Horne) writes:
    >> You'll have your seat numbers on the ticket. There are no reservation
    >> signs, so if you try to pick a 'better' seat you most likely will have
    >> to move when someone else comes along.
    >Or perhaps not. When I travelled from Brussels to London a couple of
    >months ago, there were only about 6 people in the entire carriage, so
    >we had the pick of the best seats, and nobody asked us to move.
    >I could see why there was talk at the time of shutting down the
    >Brussels Eurostar - it really was practically empty on my journey.
    >(The nicest memory of the journey, since you asked, is the amusement
    >created by the contrast in linguistic abilities of the train drivers
    >going out and back. On the way out, the announcements were from a
    >native Flemish speaker, and were in fluent and smooth English, French
    >and Flemish. On the way back the announcements were given by an
    >English speaker from England's West Country. He attempted the French
    >announcements, but obviously hadn't a clue and didn't speak a word of
    >French. It sounded as if he was reading the words off the page. It
    >also sounded as if nobody had ever told him how to go about
    >pronouncing French words. Painful and hilarious to hear.)
    >--
    > -- Chris.
Well he is in good company, old Churchill used to mangle
the French language, offending some of the snobs of his day.
 
Old Nov 10th 2003, 2:50 am
  #9  
Lennart Petersen
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

"Hatunen" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > It appears the UK has a separate company for handling Eurostar
    > while Belgium and France treat it as just another rail service.
    > it is probably significant that Belgium and France have
    > nationalized or quasi-nationalized railways, while the UK does
    > not.
But doesn't say much about the price difference as SNCF and SNCB in this
case just handling as agents on behalf of Eurostar.
 
Old Nov 10th 2003, 4:28 am
  #10  
P.L.Guillemin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 00:49:43 GMT, "Lennart Petersen"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >So question remains: why are one-way bargains advertised on SNCB but not on
    > >Eurostar itself.
    >
    > I suspect it's because the Eurostar web site is a function of the
    > UK arm of Eurostar. Note, for instance, that fares from
    > Paris->London are not shown at http://www.eurostar.com nor
    > http://www.eurostar.co.uk.

But they are on eurostar.fr...


    > It appears the UK has a separate company for handling Eurostar

Well BR created European Passenger Service (EPS) Ltd. in 1989 to
operate Eurostar service. EPS also had a stake in Euro Night Services
Ltd, together with SNCF, NS and DB. ENS would have run the still-born
Nightstars...

EPS Ltd. was renamed Eurostar UK Ltd. in 1996, and it is indeed the UK
partner operator.


    > while Belgium and France treat it as just another rail service.

That was true at the begining but this pattern has evolved meanwhile.
SNCB has increasingly fenced off Eurostar services from its other
cross-border operations, and has been rumoured to pull out of Eurostar
at a later stage.

On the French side, Eurostar is partly integrated within TGV offer
(domestic passengers on Paris-Calais as on Brussels-Lille), but
overall the offer overwhelmingly looks very different from TGV,
especially in terms of pricing and 1st class service.


Best regards.

Phil
 
Old Nov 10th 2003, 10:40 am
  #11  
David Horne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

<[email protected]> wrote:

    > [email protected] (David Horne) writes:
    >
    > > You'll have your seat numbers on the ticket. There are no reservation
    > > signs, so if you try to pick a 'better' seat you most likely will have
    > > to move when someone else comes along.
    >
    > Or perhaps not. When I travelled from Brussels to London a couple of
    > months ago, there were only about 6 people in the entire carriage, so
    > we had the pick of the best seats, and nobody asked us to move.

That's happened to me too, also to Brussels. All the Paris journeys I've
been on have been a lot busier, though.

David

--
David Horne- website under re-construction
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
 
Old Nov 11th 2003, 1:44 am
  #12  
P.L.Guillemin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

[email protected] (David Horne) wrote in message news:<1g48e8x.3sda121yn2k4sN%this_address_is_for_s [email protected]>...

    > > Or perhaps not. When I travelled from Brussels to London a couple of
    > > months ago, there were only about 6 people in the entire carriage, so
    > > we had the pick of the best seats, and nobody asked us to move.
    >
    > That's happened to me too, also to Brussels. All the Paris journeys I've
    > been on have been a lot busier, though.


Pre-CTRL, loadings were in the region of 60% on Paris-London and 40%
on Brussels-London IIRC.


Best regards.

Phil
 
Old Nov 16th 2003, 10:18 am
  #13  
Phil Richards
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Price differences for Eurostar.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 00:49:43 GMT Lennart Petersen
<[email protected]> said...

    > So question remains: why are one-way bargains advertised on SNCB but not on
    > Eurostar itself.

Whilst the "core" Eurostar fare range is the same, there have always been
some differences in some of the fares offered between the three countries
in the Eurostar consortium. Possibly because sales from Belgium to London
are lower and it's a way to encourage more bookings?

    > Second question: can't read out any seat allocation on the confirmation.
    > How are seats allocated on Eurostar ? At check in or.. ? Possible to ask
    > for a specific seat ?

It's allocated at the time you make the booking. You can choose a
specific seat if done via a sales agent (phone, ticket counter etc.) but
not via the internet.

--
Phil Richards, London, UK
European Rail Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europeanrail/
 

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