Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
Dec 3rd 2004, 6:00 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
Deep Frayed Morgues <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
> > OK, let's see if I can cause some offence... :o)
<shrug> Everyone's entitled to their opinions. What's to get offended
about?
>
> Milan is not worth going out of your way to see. The first impressions
If we all ran our lives by first impressions, many of us would never
get a date.
> are lousy, as it's high density, with lots of traffic, and high costs.
> Note also that it rains a lot too, far more than, say, Rome. It's a
> city built for workers, not for tourists.
The point might be made that, if you want to see how real Italians
live, Milan is a good place to do so. In fact, I would highly
recommend it to the starry-eyed tourists who spend two weeks in
Tuscany and declare "I'm in love with Italy, let's move here!" Fine
and dandy if you have a few million euros in the bank, not so easy for
ordinary mortals.
> Outside of that, there are no major tourist attractions,
People who care deeply about fashion would disagree with you there.
> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
> Rome. The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
There are lots of good restaurants, see
<http://www.straughan.com/italy/travel/restaurants.htm> for a very
small start. Maybe fewer than in Rome, but Rome has at least 3 times
Milan's population, so that's only reasonable.
If you're paying 10 euros for a beer, you're in the wrong bars. The
upside of the aperitivo hour is that it's all you can eat - you can
get a meal for the price of a drink, and 10 euros for a meal ain't bad
anywhere in Europe.
>Also public
> transport is quite mediocre, with a reasonable metro, rattly old
> trams, and buses that will shake you to pieces when they go over the
> cobbled streets.
The buses are frequent most times of day and not too closely packed
(unlike Rome). And I defy you to find any vehicle that doesn't shake
your bones on those quaint old cobblestone streets that tourists are
so fond of!
The rattly old trams, looked at another way, are charming antiques
such as my grandparents used to ride in New Orleans, with seats of
polished slatted wood, cast-iron steps that fold down when the doors
open, and bells that go ding-ding-ding. The city of San Francisco
bought two old Milanese trams and shipped them all the way to
California for use in their own transport system. Evidently the San
Franciscans like them, too.
> Italy has a hell of a lot to offer, but put Milan down the bottom of
> your list somewhere.
Milan has a lot to offer, for the non-lazy tourist. One thing I
appreciate is that the sights are not full of stalls selling tourist
crap, and that everyone assumes you couldn't possibly be a tourist
(unless you are with a large group of Japanese), so they leave you
alone.
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan
http://www.straughan.com
> > OK, let's see if I can cause some offence... :o)
<shrug> Everyone's entitled to their opinions. What's to get offended
about?
>
> Milan is not worth going out of your way to see. The first impressions
If we all ran our lives by first impressions, many of us would never
get a date.
> are lousy, as it's high density, with lots of traffic, and high costs.
> Note also that it rains a lot too, far more than, say, Rome. It's a
> city built for workers, not for tourists.
The point might be made that, if you want to see how real Italians
live, Milan is a good place to do so. In fact, I would highly
recommend it to the starry-eyed tourists who spend two weeks in
Tuscany and declare "I'm in love with Italy, let's move here!" Fine
and dandy if you have a few million euros in the bank, not so easy for
ordinary mortals.
> Outside of that, there are no major tourist attractions,
People who care deeply about fashion would disagree with you there.
> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
> Rome. The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
There are lots of good restaurants, see
<http://www.straughan.com/italy/travel/restaurants.htm> for a very
small start. Maybe fewer than in Rome, but Rome has at least 3 times
Milan's population, so that's only reasonable.
If you're paying 10 euros for a beer, you're in the wrong bars. The
upside of the aperitivo hour is that it's all you can eat - you can
get a meal for the price of a drink, and 10 euros for a meal ain't bad
anywhere in Europe.
>Also public
> transport is quite mediocre, with a reasonable metro, rattly old
> trams, and buses that will shake you to pieces when they go over the
> cobbled streets.
The buses are frequent most times of day and not too closely packed
(unlike Rome). And I defy you to find any vehicle that doesn't shake
your bones on those quaint old cobblestone streets that tourists are
so fond of!
The rattly old trams, looked at another way, are charming antiques
such as my grandparents used to ride in New Orleans, with seats of
polished slatted wood, cast-iron steps that fold down when the doors
open, and bells that go ding-ding-ding. The city of San Francisco
bought two old Milanese trams and shipped them all the way to
California for use in their own transport system. Evidently the San
Franciscans like them, too.
> Italy has a hell of a lot to offer, but put Milan down the bottom of
> your list somewhere.
Milan has a lot to offer, for the non-lazy tourist. One thing I
appreciate is that the sights are not full of stalls selling tourist
crap, and that everyone assumes you couldn't possibly be a tourist
(unless you are with a large group of Japanese), so they leave you
alone.
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan
http://www.straughan.com
Dec 3rd 2004, 6:18 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 22:11:36 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:20:55 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:26:06 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:20:58 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
>>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>>Did I mention that it's one of the most nervous cities I have ever
>>>>seen? On every street you can see people chewing their nails and
>>>>smoking cigarettes like the invading hordes are coming through the
>>>>alps.
>>>I noticed that with the people I worked with in Milan.
>>All of them, on edge, all the time. Leave the metro zone, and it
>>reverts back to Italy again.
>>Utterly mad I say.
>I thought perhaps brain damage caused by heavy pollution.
Oh, and I also forgot to mention how dusty this place is. Look across
the top of any car, and there is inevitably a thick layer of dust, if
not, dirt. It's hard not to notice these cars too, as they are all
over the footpath. Creative parkers, these guys!
---
DFM
>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:20:55 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:26:06 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:20:58 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
>>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>>Did I mention that it's one of the most nervous cities I have ever
>>>>seen? On every street you can see people chewing their nails and
>>>>smoking cigarettes like the invading hordes are coming through the
>>>>alps.
>>>I noticed that with the people I worked with in Milan.
>>All of them, on edge, all the time. Leave the metro zone, and it
>>reverts back to Italy again.
>>Utterly mad I say.
>I thought perhaps brain damage caused by heavy pollution.
Oh, and I also forgot to mention how dusty this place is. Look across
the top of any car, and there is inevitably a thick layer of dust, if
not, dirt. It's hard not to notice these cars too, as they are all
over the footpath. Creative parkers, these guys!
---
DFM
Dec 3rd 2004, 10:22 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 07:18:24 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 22:11:36 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:20:55 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:26:06 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:20:58 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
>>>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>>>Did I mention that it's one of the most nervous cities I have ever
>>>>>seen? On every street you can see people chewing their nails and
>>>>>smoking cigarettes like the invading hordes are coming through the
>>>>>alps.
>>>>I noticed that with the people I worked with in Milan.
>>>All of them, on edge, all the time. Leave the metro zone, and it
>>>reverts back to Italy again.
>>>Utterly mad I say.
>>I thought perhaps brain damage caused by heavy pollution.
>Oh, and I also forgot to mention how dusty this place is. Look across
>the top of any car, and there is inevitably a thick layer of dust, if
>not, dirt. It's hard not to notice these cars too, as they are all
>over the footpath. Creative parkers, these guys!
I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
--
Martin
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 22:11:36 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:20:55 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:26:06 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:20:58 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
>>>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>>>Did I mention that it's one of the most nervous cities I have ever
>>>>>seen? On every street you can see people chewing their nails and
>>>>>smoking cigarettes like the invading hordes are coming through the
>>>>>alps.
>>>>I noticed that with the people I worked with in Milan.
>>>All of them, on edge, all the time. Leave the metro zone, and it
>>>reverts back to Italy again.
>>>Utterly mad I say.
>>I thought perhaps brain damage caused by heavy pollution.
>Oh, and I also forgot to mention how dusty this place is. Look across
>the top of any car, and there is inevitably a thick layer of dust, if
>not, dirt. It's hard not to notice these cars too, as they are all
>over the footpath. Creative parkers, these guys!
I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
--
Martin
Dec 3rd 2004, 11:02 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:22:02 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
electrons, so they looked like this :
... I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
... reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
... rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
... completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
... for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
... got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
The "bad news" could not wait 8 a.m. ?
electrons, so they looked like this :
... I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
... reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
... rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
... completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
... for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
... got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
The "bad news" could not wait 8 a.m. ?
Dec 4th 2004, 4:55 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
Magda wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:22:02 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
> electrons, so they looked like this :
>
>
> ... I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
> ... reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
> ... rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
> ... completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
> ... for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
> ... got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
>
> The "bad news" could not wait 8 a.m. ?
>
If you feel generous, perhaps they were trying for hints as to which
direction he might have crawled.
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:22:02 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
> electrons, so they looked like this :
>
>
> ... I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
> ... reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
> ... rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
> ... completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
> ... for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
> ... got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
>
> The "bad news" could not wait 8 a.m. ?
>
If you feel generous, perhaps they were trying for hints as to which
direction he might have crawled.
Dec 4th 2004, 9:07 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 17:55:27 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Frank F. Matthews"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
...
... Magda wrote:
...
... > On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:22:02 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
... > electrons, so they looked like this :
... >
... >
... > ... I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
... > ... reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
... > ... rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
... > ... completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
... > ... for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
... > ... got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
... >
... > The "bad news" could not wait 8 a.m. ?
...
... If you feel generous, perhaps they were trying for hints as to which
... direction he might have crawled.
Wasn't he supposed to be dead ?
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
...
... Magda wrote:
...
... > On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:22:02 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
... > electrons, so they looked like this :
... >
... >
... > ... I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
... > ... reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
... > ... rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
... > ... completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
... > ... for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
... > ... got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
... >
... > The "bad news" could not wait 8 a.m. ?
...
... If you feel generous, perhaps they were trying for hints as to which
... direction he might have crawled.
Wasn't he supposed to be dead ?
Dec 4th 2004, 9:40 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
Magda wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 17:55:27 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Frank F. Matthews"
> <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
> ...
> ... Magda wrote:
> ...
> ... > On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:22:02 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
> ... > electrons, so they looked like this :
> ... >
> ... >
> ... > ... I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
> ... > ... reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
> ... > ... rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
> ... > ... completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
> ... > ... for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
> ... > ... got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
> ... >
> ... > The "bad news" could not wait 8 a.m. ?
> ...
> ... If you feel generous, perhaps they were trying for hints as to which
> ... direction he might have crawled.
>
> Wasn't he supposed to be dead ?
>
The term missing implies a certain level of uncertainty. Severely
injured individuals can get some level of mobility. It is possible that
is what generated their early morning activity.
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 17:55:27 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Frank F. Matthews"
> <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
> ...
> ... Magda wrote:
> ...
> ... > On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:22:02 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
> ... > electrons, so they looked like this :
> ... >
> ... >
> ... > ... I knew an Italian, who left his car parked on a grass central
> ... > ... reservation, in neutral with the handbrake off. During the night it
> ... > ... rolled off/was pushed by a drunk, into the busy road. The car was
> ... > ... completely wrecked. The police thought he had been in it and searched
> ... > ... for his body. His mother who he still lived with (he being under 50),
> ... > ... got a call around 3 a.m. to tell her that he was missing.
> ... >
> ... > The "bad news" could not wait 8 a.m. ?
> ...
> ... If you feel generous, perhaps they were trying for hints as to which
> ... direction he might have crawled.
>
> Wasn't he supposed to be dead ?
>
The term missing implies a certain level of uncertainty. Severely
injured individuals can get some level of mobility. It is possible that
is what generated their early morning activity.
Dec 4th 2004, 9:30 pm
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
On 3 Dec 2004 23:00:12 -0800, [email protected]
(DeirdreStraughan) wrote:
>Deep Frayed Morgues <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>> are lousy, as it's high density, with lots of traffic, and high costs.
>> Note also that it rains a lot too, far more than, say, Rome. It's a
>> city built for workers, not for tourists.
>The point might be made that, if you want to see how real Italians
>live, Milan is a good place to do so.
I absolutely 100% disagree. Milan is FAR from representative of the
rest of Italy. To see how real Italians live, go anywhere but Milan.
> In fact, I would highly
>recommend it to the starry-eyed tourists who spend two weeks in
>Tuscany and declare "I'm in love with Italy, let's move here!" Fine
>and dandy if you have a few million euros in the bank, not so easy for
>ordinary mortals.
Prices in Milan are higher than in Tuscanny, that's for sure.
>> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
>> Rome. The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
>> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
>There are lots of good restaurants, see
><http://www.straughan.com/italy/travel/restaurants.htm> for a very
>small start. Maybe fewer than in Rome, but Rome has at least 3 times
>Milan's population, so that's only reasonable.
>If you're paying 10 euros for a beer, you're in the wrong bars. The
>upside of the aperitivo hour is that it's all you can eat - you can
>get a meal for the price of a drink, and 10 euros for a meal ain't bad
>anywhere in Europe.
Except the food is always cheap tasteless crap. I can't find any bars
on your website.
>>Also public
>> transport is quite mediocre, with a reasonable metro, rattly old
>> trams, and buses that will shake you to pieces when they go over the
>> cobbled streets.
>The buses are frequent most times of day and not too closely packed
>(unlike Rome). And I defy you to find any vehicle that doesn't shake
>your bones on those quaint old cobblestone streets that tourists are
>so fond of!
Legs.
>> Italy has a hell of a lot to offer, but put Milan down the bottom of
>> your list somewhere.
>Milan has a lot to offer, for the non-lazy tourist. One thing I
>appreciate is that the sights are not full of stalls selling tourist
>crap, and that everyone assumes you couldn't possibly be a tourist
>(unless you are with a large group of Japanese), so they leave you
>alone.
Central Milan is plenty touristy enough. Anywhere around Duomo, Il
Castello, and Brera are riddled with crappy tourist places.
This is Italy we are talking about. Why pay top-euro in Milan when
there are many, many far better places?
---
DFM
(DeirdreStraughan) wrote:
>Deep Frayed Morgues <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>> are lousy, as it's high density, with lots of traffic, and high costs.
>> Note also that it rains a lot too, far more than, say, Rome. It's a
>> city built for workers, not for tourists.
>The point might be made that, if you want to see how real Italians
>live, Milan is a good place to do so.
I absolutely 100% disagree. Milan is FAR from representative of the
rest of Italy. To see how real Italians live, go anywhere but Milan.
> In fact, I would highly
>recommend it to the starry-eyed tourists who spend two weeks in
>Tuscany and declare "I'm in love with Italy, let's move here!" Fine
>and dandy if you have a few million euros in the bank, not so easy for
>ordinary mortals.
Prices in Milan are higher than in Tuscanny, that's for sure.
>> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
>> Rome. The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
>> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
>There are lots of good restaurants, see
><http://www.straughan.com/italy/travel/restaurants.htm> for a very
>small start. Maybe fewer than in Rome, but Rome has at least 3 times
>Milan's population, so that's only reasonable.
>If you're paying 10 euros for a beer, you're in the wrong bars. The
>upside of the aperitivo hour is that it's all you can eat - you can
>get a meal for the price of a drink, and 10 euros for a meal ain't bad
>anywhere in Europe.
Except the food is always cheap tasteless crap. I can't find any bars
on your website.
>>Also public
>> transport is quite mediocre, with a reasonable metro, rattly old
>> trams, and buses that will shake you to pieces when they go over the
>> cobbled streets.
>The buses are frequent most times of day and not too closely packed
>(unlike Rome). And I defy you to find any vehicle that doesn't shake
>your bones on those quaint old cobblestone streets that tourists are
>so fond of!
Legs.
>> Italy has a hell of a lot to offer, but put Milan down the bottom of
>> your list somewhere.
>Milan has a lot to offer, for the non-lazy tourist. One thing I
>appreciate is that the sights are not full of stalls selling tourist
>crap, and that everyone assumes you couldn't possibly be a tourist
>(unless you are with a large group of Japanese), so they leave you
>alone.
Central Milan is plenty touristy enough. Anywhere around Duomo, Il
Castello, and Brera are riddled with crappy tourist places.
This is Italy we are talking about. Why pay top-euro in Milan when
there are many, many far better places?
---
DFM
Dec 7th 2004, 4:34 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
"Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:43:12 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
> >message news:[email protected]...
> >> On 2 Dec 2004 02:41:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> >Milan gets unfairly short shrift from travelers. Unlike Florence,
Rome,
> >> >or Venice, Milan doesn't offer herself up easily to the casual
tourist;
> >> >you have to look a little harder, but it's worth it. Alan's list gives
> >> >you a very good idea; see
> >> >http://www.straughan.com/italy/travel/milano.htm for some other links
> >> >and tips.
> >>
> >> OK, let's see if I can cause some offence... :o)
> >>
> >> Milan is not worth going out of your way to see. The first impressions
> >> are lousy, as it's high density, with lots of traffic, and high costs.
> >
> >High costs ? - Not compared to the UK.
> No, but higher than Rome, and it has far less to offer tourists.
Also higher than Shanghai, and higher than Kuala Lumpar.
> >> Note also that it rains a lot too, far more than, say, Rome. It's a
> >> city built for workers, not for tourists.
> >>
> >
> >Rains more than the UK ???
> Possibly more than London. It rains a LOT here!
It only rained a little this last weekend, and the drive from Bergamo to
Milan Saturday morning was in bright sunshine, the cloud cover seemed to
appear when we hit the Milan city limits.
> >> In winter it's freezing, in summer the heat is oppressive. It's an
> >> incredibly 'wet' city, meaning that the effects of the heat and cold
> >> are accentuated. You certainly wont be lonely in summer, because the
> >> place is infested with millions of savage mosquitoes. The Milanese
> >> love their dogs too, and despite efforts to make pooping areas, there
> >> are often dog turds on the street.
> >>
> >
> >But not as many turds as Paris.
> They're trying to catch up.
They have a long way to go.
> >> Currently, the Duomo has scaffolding covering the entire front, so is
> >> sure to dissapoint tourists.
> >
> >True but it isn't permanent
> >
> It's Italians working remember. 27 years is technically not
> permanent...!
I asked at the tourist information office and they said they didnt know how
much longer it would be up for - maybe a year or two.
> >> The Castello is interesting for a stroll,
> >> but not worth writing home about.
> >
> >But the fountain outside it is interesting :-)
> >
> *tries to think of it*
> mmmm.... I can only think of one, and can't recall it being special. I
> do remember the lighting on the Castello at night being quite good
> though...
The fountain changes shape regularly.
But the seats near it all look away from the fountain not towards it - DOH
> >> Outside of that, there are no major
> >> tourist attractions, and you can see both of these in an afternoon.
> >>
> >
> >What about La Scala ?
> >
> And Brera.
Is the natural history museum worth going in to ?
> >And there is more to tourism than attractions, I like Milan partly
because
> >it isn't totally full of Tourists, it is a working City, but with many
> >interesting things.
> There is certainly plenty to do, like in any big city, just not much
> really special. Remember, this is Italy we are talking about, so the
> bar is set very high.
> >> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
> >> Rome.
The pizza place I recommended here a few months ago seems to have been taken
over by the Chjinese and gone downhill (and half way into the valley).
I found SABATINI
MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
Tel. 0229402814
To be good - but watch out for the half bald ginger headed waiter, he tries
to make jokes in english.
>>>>The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
> >> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
In Sabatini above you can pay 4 EUR for a half bottle of very drinkable
wine.
> >> Also public
> >> transport is quite mediocre, with a reasonable metro, rattly old
> >> trams, and buses that will shake you to pieces when they go over the
> >> cobbled streets.
> >>
> >
> >But it is small enough to walk most of the main areas.
> For an afternoon.
> >> Italy has a hell of a lot to offer, but put Milan down the bottom of
> >> your list somewhere.
> >
> >It certainly shouldn't be at the top.
> Did I mention that it's one of the most nervous cities I have ever
> seen? On every street you can see people chewing their nails and
> smoking cigarettes like the invading hordes are coming through the
> alps.
But they tend to spit on the streets less than in most places.
And sorry Martin - I couldnt find your sandwich shop.
The christmas market (down one of the streets opposite the Duomo) was
interesting, but I didnt venture into mac donalds to check for beer :-)
message news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:43:12 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
> >message news:[email protected]...
> >> On 2 Dec 2004 02:41:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> >Milan gets unfairly short shrift from travelers. Unlike Florence,
Rome,
> >> >or Venice, Milan doesn't offer herself up easily to the casual
tourist;
> >> >you have to look a little harder, but it's worth it. Alan's list gives
> >> >you a very good idea; see
> >> >http://www.straughan.com/italy/travel/milano.htm for some other links
> >> >and tips.
> >>
> >> OK, let's see if I can cause some offence... :o)
> >>
> >> Milan is not worth going out of your way to see. The first impressions
> >> are lousy, as it's high density, with lots of traffic, and high costs.
> >
> >High costs ? - Not compared to the UK.
> No, but higher than Rome, and it has far less to offer tourists.
Also higher than Shanghai, and higher than Kuala Lumpar.
> >> Note also that it rains a lot too, far more than, say, Rome. It's a
> >> city built for workers, not for tourists.
> >>
> >
> >Rains more than the UK ???
> Possibly more than London. It rains a LOT here!
It only rained a little this last weekend, and the drive from Bergamo to
Milan Saturday morning was in bright sunshine, the cloud cover seemed to
appear when we hit the Milan city limits.
> >> In winter it's freezing, in summer the heat is oppressive. It's an
> >> incredibly 'wet' city, meaning that the effects of the heat and cold
> >> are accentuated. You certainly wont be lonely in summer, because the
> >> place is infested with millions of savage mosquitoes. The Milanese
> >> love their dogs too, and despite efforts to make pooping areas, there
> >> are often dog turds on the street.
> >>
> >
> >But not as many turds as Paris.
> They're trying to catch up.
They have a long way to go.
> >> Currently, the Duomo has scaffolding covering the entire front, so is
> >> sure to dissapoint tourists.
> >
> >True but it isn't permanent
> >
> It's Italians working remember. 27 years is technically not
> permanent...!
I asked at the tourist information office and they said they didnt know how
much longer it would be up for - maybe a year or two.
> >> The Castello is interesting for a stroll,
> >> but not worth writing home about.
> >
> >But the fountain outside it is interesting :-)
> >
> *tries to think of it*
> mmmm.... I can only think of one, and can't recall it being special. I
> do remember the lighting on the Castello at night being quite good
> though...
The fountain changes shape regularly.
But the seats near it all look away from the fountain not towards it - DOH
> >> Outside of that, there are no major
> >> tourist attractions, and you can see both of these in an afternoon.
> >>
> >
> >What about La Scala ?
> >
> And Brera.
Is the natural history museum worth going in to ?
> >And there is more to tourism than attractions, I like Milan partly
because
> >it isn't totally full of Tourists, it is a working City, but with many
> >interesting things.
> There is certainly plenty to do, like in any big city, just not much
> really special. Remember, this is Italy we are talking about, so the
> bar is set very high.
> >> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
> >> Rome.
The pizza place I recommended here a few months ago seems to have been taken
over by the Chjinese and gone downhill (and half way into the valley).
I found SABATINI
MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
Tel. 0229402814
To be good - but watch out for the half bald ginger headed waiter, he tries
to make jokes in english.
>>>>The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
> >> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
In Sabatini above you can pay 4 EUR for a half bottle of very drinkable
wine.
> >> Also public
> >> transport is quite mediocre, with a reasonable metro, rattly old
> >> trams, and buses that will shake you to pieces when they go over the
> >> cobbled streets.
> >>
> >
> >But it is small enough to walk most of the main areas.
> For an afternoon.
> >> Italy has a hell of a lot to offer, but put Milan down the bottom of
> >> your list somewhere.
> >
> >It certainly shouldn't be at the top.
> Did I mention that it's one of the most nervous cities I have ever
> seen? On every street you can see people chewing their nails and
> smoking cigarettes like the invading hordes are coming through the
> alps.
But they tend to spit on the streets less than in most places.
And sorry Martin - I couldnt find your sandwich shop.
The christmas market (down one of the streets opposite the Duomo) was
interesting, but I didnt venture into mac donalds to check for beer :-)
Dec 7th 2004, 4:38 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
> > Outside of that, there are no major tourist attractions,
> People who care deeply about fashion would disagree with you there.
Via della Spigo, is certainly an interesting place, but I dont know why they
allow so many beggars to hang around. And last weekend it seemed to be
invaved by golf carts with American Express adverts plastered over the side.
> Milan has a lot to offer, for the non-lazy tourist. One thing I
> appreciate is that the sights are not full of stalls selling tourist
> crap, and that everyone assumes you couldn't possibly be a tourist
> (unless you are with a large group of Japanese), so they leave you
> alone.
Here, Here
or is it Hear Hear.
> People who care deeply about fashion would disagree with you there.
Via della Spigo, is certainly an interesting place, but I dont know why they
allow so many beggars to hang around. And last weekend it seemed to be
invaved by golf carts with American Express adverts plastered over the side.
> Milan has a lot to offer, for the non-lazy tourist. One thing I
> appreciate is that the sights are not full of stalls selling tourist
> crap, and that everyone assumes you couldn't possibly be a tourist
> (unless you are with a large group of Japanese), so they leave you
> alone.
Here, Here
or is it Hear Hear.
Dec 7th 2004, 4:52 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:34:46 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>And sorry Martin - I couldnt find your sandwich shop.
It's on the online Michelin map ***
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>And sorry Martin - I couldnt find your sandwich shop.
It's on the online Michelin map ***
--
Martin
Dec 8th 2004, 5:57 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:34:46 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> No, but higher than Rome, and it has far less to offer tourists.
>Also higher than Shanghai, and higher than Kuala Lumpar.
Just got back from Venice, and the prices there were generally LOWER
for comparable stuff!!! No kidding!!!
>> It's Italians working remember. 27 years is technically not
>> permanent...!
>I asked at the tourist information office and they said they didnt know how
>much longer it would be up for - maybe a year or two.
I had a look on the 'info' boards out the front, and it say 2 years,
but it does not say when that 2 years began/begins.
>> >> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
>> >> Rome.
>The pizza place I recommended here a few months ago seems to have been taken
>over by the Chjinese and gone downhill (and half way into the valley).
>I found SABATINI
> MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
> Tel. 0229402814
OK, will give it a try sometime.
>To be good - but watch out for the half bald ginger headed waiter, he tries
>to make jokes in english.
>>>>>The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
>> >> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
>In Sabatini above you can pay 4 EUR for a half bottle of very drinkable
>wine.
What/where is Sabatini?
---
DFM
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> No, but higher than Rome, and it has far less to offer tourists.
>Also higher than Shanghai, and higher than Kuala Lumpar.
Just got back from Venice, and the prices there were generally LOWER
for comparable stuff!!! No kidding!!!
>> It's Italians working remember. 27 years is technically not
>> permanent...!
>I asked at the tourist information office and they said they didnt know how
>much longer it would be up for - maybe a year or two.
I had a look on the 'info' boards out the front, and it say 2 years,
but it does not say when that 2 years began/begins.
>> >> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
>> >> Rome.
>The pizza place I recommended here a few months ago seems to have been taken
>over by the Chjinese and gone downhill (and half way into the valley).
>I found SABATINI
> MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
> Tel. 0229402814
OK, will give it a try sometime.
>To be good - but watch out for the half bald ginger headed waiter, he tries
>to make jokes in english.
>>>>>The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
>> >> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
>In Sabatini above you can pay 4 EUR for a half bottle of very drinkable
>wine.
What/where is Sabatini?
---
DFM
Dec 8th 2004, 8:36 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
> >> >> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such
as
> >> >> Rome.
> >
> >The pizza place I recommended here a few months ago seems to have been
taken
> >over by the Chjinese and gone downhill (and half way into the valley).
> >
> >I found SABATINI
> > MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
> > Tel. 0229402814
> OK, will give it a try sometime.
> >To be good - but watch out for the half bald ginger headed waiter, he
tries
> >to make jokes in english.
> >
> >>>>>The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
> >> >> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
> >
> >In Sabatini above you can pay 4 EUR for a half bottle of very drinkable
> >wine.
> What/where is Sabatini?
The restaurant above that you just said you will try WAKE UP !!
as
> >> >> Rome.
> >
> >The pizza place I recommended here a few months ago seems to have been
taken
> >over by the Chjinese and gone downhill (and half way into the valley).
> >
> >I found SABATINI
> > MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
> > Tel. 0229402814
> OK, will give it a try sometime.
> >To be good - but watch out for the half bald ginger headed waiter, he
tries
> >to make jokes in english.
> >
> >>>>>The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
> >> >> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
> >
> >In Sabatini above you can pay 4 EUR for a half bottle of very drinkable
> >wine.
> What/where is Sabatini?
The restaurant above that you just said you will try WAKE UP !!
Dec 9th 2004, 12:56 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:57:13 GMT, Deep Frayed Morgues
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:34:46 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>>message news:[email protected]...
>>> No, but higher than Rome, and it has far less to offer tourists.
>>Also higher than Shanghai, and higher than Kuala Lumpar.
>Just got back from Venice, and the prices there were generally LOWER
>for comparable stuff!!! No kidding!!!
>>> It's Italians working remember. 27 years is technically not
>>> permanent...!
>>I asked at the tourist information office and they said they didnt know how
>>much longer it would be up for - maybe a year or two.
>I had a look on the 'info' boards out the front, and it say 2 years,
>but it does not say when that 2 years began/begins.
>>> >> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
>>> >> Rome.
>>The pizza place I recommended here a few months ago seems to have been taken
>>over by the Chjinese and gone downhill (and half way into the valley).
>>I found SABATINI
>> MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
>> Tel. 0229402814
>OK, will give it a try sometime.
>>To be good - but watch out for the half bald ginger headed waiter, he tries
>>to make jokes in english.
>>>>>>The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
>>> >> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
>>In Sabatini above you can pay 4 EUR for a half bottle of very drinkable
>>wine.
>What/where is Sabatini?
" SABATINI
MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
Tel. 0229402814 "
a pizza place
--
Martin
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:34:46 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>>message news:[email protected]...
>>> No, but higher than Rome, and it has far less to offer tourists.
>>Also higher than Shanghai, and higher than Kuala Lumpar.
>Just got back from Venice, and the prices there were generally LOWER
>for comparable stuff!!! No kidding!!!
>>> It's Italians working remember. 27 years is technically not
>>> permanent...!
>>I asked at the tourist information office and they said they didnt know how
>>much longer it would be up for - maybe a year or two.
>I had a look on the 'info' boards out the front, and it say 2 years,
>but it does not say when that 2 years began/begins.
>>> >> There is also far fewer good restaurants than in other cities such as
>>> >> Rome.
>>The pizza place I recommended here a few months ago seems to have been taken
>>over by the Chjinese and gone downhill (and half way into the valley).
>>I found SABATINI
>> MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
>> Tel. 0229402814
>OK, will give it a try sometime.
>>To be good - but watch out for the half bald ginger headed waiter, he tries
>>to make jokes in english.
>>>>>>The bars in Milan are ridiculously expensive too. You can pay 10
>>> >> euros for a single beer when they have the appertivos out.
>>In Sabatini above you can pay 4 EUR for a half bottle of very drinkable
>>wine.
>What/where is Sabatini?
" SABATINI
MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
Tel. 0229402814 "
a pizza place
--
Martin
Dec 9th 2004, 1:02 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning a trip Milano(?)-Rome
> >
> >What/where is Sabatini?
> " SABATINI
> MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
> Tel. 0229402814 "
> a pizza place
And their ravioli is good too.
but not for Americans.
> >What/where is Sabatini?
> " SABATINI
> MILANO Via Boscovich 54 (ang.c.B.Aires)
> Tel. 0229402814 "
> a pizza place
And their ravioli is good too.
but not for Americans.
