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Planned Belgian motorway tax

Planned Belgian motorway tax

Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:15 am
  #46  
Gerrit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

"tim....." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > > 'Omrijden via Duitsland verdien je zo terug, want als je de wazige
> > > wegbewijzering moet volgen, die zonder verlichting achter bomen en
> > > struiken
> > > hangt, rij je snel meer dan 75 kilometer verkeerd.'
> >
> > > Op dezelfde website Vlietstra uit Almere:
> >
> > > 'Pure discriminatie. Ik ben zelfstandig ondernemer en overweeg mijn
> > > prijzen voor
> > > Belgische klanten fors te verhogen. '
> >
> > > Sonia van der Elst uit Halle, België, op de site.
> >
> > > 'Eindelijk rust op onze wegen. Geen eindeloze rijen caravans meer die
> > > naar
> > > het
> > > zuiden trekken en onze wegen belasten.' "Would you like to enlighten
> > > those of us who can't read it?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > tim
>
> 1) diverting via Germany will save money as you need to drive 75kph to
> see the badly placed signs
> 2) discrimination, I've got my own business and I'll have to charge my
> Belgian clients more.
> 3) thank **** no more ****ing caravans travelling south (some poetic
> license)
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>

The translation leaves a bit to be desired:

1) Taking a detour via Germany is no more expensive because if you must
follow the difficult to see road signs (in Belgium - g) that that are
placed, unlit, behind trees and bushes, you will soon drive 75 km too far.
2) Pure discrimination. I am an independent contractor and am contemplating
drastically increasing my prices for Belgian customers.
3) Finally peace and quiet on our roads. No more endless columns of caravans
trekking southwards taxing our roads.
NOTE: poetic license in this case misrepresents what the lady was saying.

Gerrit
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:20 am
  #47  
Gerrit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

"tim....." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected] oups.com...
> > http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
> >
>
> > However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
> > Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
> > A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
> > The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
> > European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
> > discriminates against their motorists.
>
> This seems fair in principle to me.
>
> The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's
> roads through their taxes, other national's do not.
>
> It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other
> nationals is perfectly reasonable.
>
> (whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way
> of charging is another matter)
>
> tim
>

I thought I read somewhere that one of the guiding principles of the EC is
that access should be the same for each and every citizen.
So if the Belgians charge their citizens the same tax then no one can
complain.

Gerrit
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:22 am
  #48  
Gerrit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

"Mister Bartlett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1hrw0y3.f416ekd6r52iN%[email protected]...
> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
> crappy motorways :-(
>
> B;
>

Crappy motorways in the Netherlands?

Explain please.

Gerrit - Oz
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:25 am
  #49  
Gerrit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
> >> crappy motorways :-(
> >>
> >> B;
> >>
> >
> >Austria and Switzerland already do
>
> and France and Italy and ...
> --
>
> Martin
>

In France and Italy the locals also pay the same for the use of their toll
roads.

Gerrit
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:31 am
  #50  
Gerrit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:18:20 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett)
wrote:
>
> >J. Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
> >> > Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....."
<[email protected]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
> >> > >
>>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
> >> >
> >> > > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
> >> > > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
> >> > > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
> >> > > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
> >> > > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
> >> > > >> discriminates against their motorists.
> >> >
> >> > > >This seems fair in principle to me.
> >> >
> >> > > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's roads
> >> > > >through their taxes, other national's do not.
> >> >
> >> > > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other nationals
is
> >> > > >perfectly reasonable.
> >> >
> >> > > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way of
> >> > > >charging is another matter)
> >> >
> >> > > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
> >> > motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for
using
> >> > their crappy motorways :-(
> >> >
> >> > B;
> >> >
> >>
> >> Austria and Switzerland already do
> >
> >I meant *all* foreigners - even those with NL plates :-(
>
>
> Incidentally EUR 60 is for a whole year, there will be a lower charge for
> example 10 days.
>
> " Alle automobilisten moeten het vignet in 2008 kopen. Belgen krijgen het
bedrag
> vergoed via de wegenbelasting, Nederlanders en alle andere niet-Belgen die
> bijvoorbeeld op weg naar de camping in Frankrijk via België rijden,
krijgen het
> niet vergoed. De Vlaamse regering wil met het geld de wegen opknappen en
het
> openbaar vervoer verbeteren.
>
> Overigens is de 60 euro die het vignet gaat kosten alleen voor een
jaarvignet.
> Er komen ook goedkopere versies voor bijvoorbeeld tien dagen, zei Van
Brempt."
> --
>
> Martin
>

The planned refund to Belgian registered vehicle owners just means that the
Belgian government will be discriminating against non-Belgians which is
against the rules of the EC.

BTW when I next come to Europe I intend to lease a car from CDG and drive to
Vlissingen. The leased vehicle will be registered in my name and Australian
address. Will the Belgians try to chase me for any fine if they catch me?

Gerrit - Oz
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:32 am
  #51  
J. Walker
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

On Jan 14, 3:15 pm, "gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "tim....." <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > 'Omrijden via Duitsland verdien je zo terug, want als je de wazige
> > > > wegbewijzering moet volgen, die zonder verlichting achter bomen en
> > > > struiken
> > > > hangt, rij je snel meer dan 75 kilometer verkeerd.'
>
> > > > Op dezelfde website Vlietstra uit Almere:
>
> > > > 'Pure discriminatie. Ik ben zelfstandig ondernemer en overweeg mijn
> > > > prijzen voor
> > > > Belgische klanten fors te verhogen. '
>
> > > > Sonia van der Elst uit Halle, Belgi�, op de site.
>
> > > > 'Eindelijk rust op onze wegen. Geen eindeloze rijen caravans meer die
> > > > naar
> > > > het
> > > > zuiden trekken en onze wegen belasten.' "Would you like to enlighten
> > > > those of us who can't read it?
>
> > > thanks
>
> > > tim
>
> > 1) diverting via Germany will save money as you need to drive 75kph to
> > see the badly placed signs
> > 2) discrimination, I've got my own business and I'll have to charge my
> > Belgian clients more.
> > 3) thank **** no more ****ing caravans travelling south (some poetic
> > license)
>
> > ThanksThe translation leaves a bit to be desired:
>
> 1) Taking a detour via Germany is no more expensive because if you must
> follow the difficult to see road signs (in Belgium - g) that that are
> placed, unlit, behind trees and bushes, you will soon drive 75 km too far.
> 2) Pure discrimination. I am an independent contractor and am contemplating
> drastically increasing my prices for Belgian customers.
> 3) Finally peace and quiet on our roads. No more endless columns of caravans
> trekking southwards taxing our roads.
> NOTE: poetic license in this case misrepresents what the lady was saying.
>
> Gerrit

I blame the Delerium Tremens
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:37 am
  #52  
-Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:20:40 +0900, "gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"tim....." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected] oups.com...
>> > http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>> >
>>
>> > However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
>> > Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
>> > A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
>> > The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
>> > European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
>> > discriminates against their motorists.
>>
>> This seems fair in principle to me.
>>
>> The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's
>> roads through their taxes, other national's do not.
>>
>> It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other
>> nationals is perfectly reasonable.
>>
>> (whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way
>> of charging is another matter)
>>
>> tim
>>
>
>I thought I read somewhere that one of the guiding principles of the EC is
>that access should be the same for each and every citizen.
>So if the Belgians charge their citizens the same tax then no one can
>complain.

The Belgians pay for their roads with their road tax. The Dutch pay nothing for
using Belgian roads.
--

Martin
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:39 am
  #53  
-Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:22:38 +0900, "gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Mister Bartlett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:1hrw0y3.f416ekd6r52iN%[email protected]...
>> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
>> crappy motorways :-(
>>
>> B;
>>
>
>Crappy motorways in the Netherlands?
>
>Explain please.

Overloaded and the narrowest motorway lanes anywhere. Access points are
implemented in a very crude cheap way.
--

Martin
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:45 am
  #54  
-Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:25:06 +0900, "gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
>motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
>> >> crappy motorways :-(
>> >>
>> >> B;
>> >>
>> >
>> >Austria and Switzerland already do
>>
>> and France and Italy and ...
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
>In France and Italy the locals also pay the same for the use of their toll
>roads.
and? the Dutch avoid using them, instead during holidays they choke secondary
roads with cars towing caravans.

and? there are often traffic jams at tolls, We sometimes had to wait 10-20
minutes to pay about a Euro toll near Turin.
It is better to collect money in away that doesn't effect traffic flow.
EUR60 for 12 months seems cheap.
--

Martin
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 1:50 am
  #55  
-Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:31:56 +0900, "gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:18:20 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett)
>wrote:
>>
>> >J. Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> >> > Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....."
><[email protected]>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> > > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
>> >> > >
>>>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>> >> >
>> >> > > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
>> >> > > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
>> >> > > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
>> >> > > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
>> >> > > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
>> >> > > >> discriminates against their motorists.
>> >> >
>> >> > > >This seems fair in principle to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's roads
>> >> > > >through their taxes, other national's do not.
>> >> >
>> >> > > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other nationals
>is
>> >> > > >perfectly reasonable.
>> >> >
>> >> > > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way of
>> >> > > >charging is another matter)
>> >> >
>> >> > > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
>> >> > motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for
>using
>> >> > their crappy motorways :-(
>> >> >
>> >> > B;
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Austria and Switzerland already do
>> >
>> >I meant *all* foreigners - even those with NL plates :-(
>>
>>
>> Incidentally EUR 60 is for a whole year, there will be a lower charge for
>> example 10 days.
>>
>> " Alle automobilisten moeten het vignet in 2008 kopen. Belgen krijgen het
>bedrag
>> vergoed via de wegenbelasting, Nederlanders en alle andere niet-Belgen die
>> bijvoorbeeld op weg naar de camping in Frankrijk via Belgi� rijden,
>krijgen het
>> niet vergoed. De Vlaamse regering wil met het geld de wegen opknappen en
>het
>> openbaar vervoer verbeteren.
>>
>> Overigens is de 60 euro die het vignet gaat kosten alleen voor een
>jaarvignet.
>> Er komen ook goedkopere versies voor bijvoorbeeld tien dagen, zei Van
>Brempt."
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
>The planned refund to Belgian registered vehicle owners just means that the
>Belgian government will be discriminating against non-Belgians which is
>against the rules of the EC.

No it doesn't and isn't. Belgians have already paid their share by paying
Belgian road tax.

>
>BTW when I next come to Europe I intend to lease a car from CDG and drive to
>Vlissingen. The leased vehicle will be registered in my name and Australian
>address. Will the Belgians try to chase me for any fine if they catch me?

Any unpaid fines will be paid by the leasing company, who will deduct them from
your credit card. Better not to incur a fine.
--

Martin
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 2:12 am
  #56  
Mister Bartlett
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:22:38 +0900, "gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Mister Bartlett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:1hrw0y3.f416ekd6r52iN%[email protected]...
> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
> >> crappy motorways :-(
> >>
> >> B;
> >>
> >
> >Crappy motorways in the Netherlands?
> >
> >Explain please.
>
> Overloaded and the narrowest motorway lanes anywhere. Access points are
> implemented in a very crude cheap way.

Not just cheap, but also very thoughtless (maybe that's the same thing).
It often happens that you need to enter a motorway and IMMEDIATELY cross
a lot of lanes to get into the lane you need to be in. It's extremely
dangerous, especially when it's dark and raining (i.e. most of the
time).

B;


--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
<http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG>
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 2:35 am
  #57  
-Martin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:12:51 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:

>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:22:38 +0900, "gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Mister Bartlett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:1hrw0y3.f416ekd6r52iN%[email protected]...
>> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
>> >> crappy motorways :-(
>> >>
>> >> B;
>> >>
>> >
>> >Crappy motorways in the Netherlands?
>> >
>> >Explain please.
>>
>> Overloaded and the narrowest motorway lanes anywhere. Access points are
>> implemented in a very crude cheap way.
>
>Not just cheap, but also very thoughtless (maybe that's the same thing).
>It often happens that you need to enter a motorway and IMMEDIATELY cross
>a lot of lanes to get into the lane you need to be in. It's extremely
>dangerous, especially when it's dark and raining (i.e. most of the
>time).



It's what I meant by crude. Entry and exit points coincide. In most countries
they are separated. Usually in most countries an exit from a motorway is
followed some distance later by an entrance to the motorway.
--

Martin
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 4:39 am
  #58  
mini Mini
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

"gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
> motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using
> their
>> >> crappy motorways :-(
>> >>
>> >> B;
>> >>
>> >
>> >Austria and Switzerland already do
>>
>> and France and Italy and ...
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
> In France and Italy the locals also pay the same for the use of their
> toll roads.


So do the Swiss & the Austrian locals. I imagine the Belgian system will
be the same as the Swiss system (except more expensive).
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 4:42 am
  #59  
mini Mini
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

"gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:18:20 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett)
> wrote:
>>
>> >J. Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> >> > Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....."
> <[email protected]>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> > > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
>> >> > >
>>>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>> >> >
>> >> > > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
>> >> > > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
>> >> > > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
>> >> > > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue
>> >> > > >> with the European Commission, as they feel that the new
>> >> > > >> motorway tax discriminates against their motorists.
>> >> >
>> >> > > >This seems fair in principle to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's
>> >> > > >roads through their taxes, other national's do not.
>> >> >
>> >> > > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other
>> >> > > >nationals
> is
>> >> > > >perfectly reasonable.
>> >> >
>> >> > > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way of
>> >> > > >charging is another matter)
>> >> >
>> >> > > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
>> >> > motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for
> using
>> >> > their crappy motorways :-(
>> >> >
>> >> > B;
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Austria and Switzerland already do
>> >
>> >I meant *all* foreigners - even those with NL plates :-(
>>
>>
>> Incidentally EUR 60 is for a whole year, there will be a lower charge
>> for example 10 days.
>>
>> " Alle automobilisten moeten het vignet in 2008 kopen. Belgen krijgen
>> het
> bedrag
>> vergoed via de wegenbelasting, Nederlanders en alle andere
>> niet-Belgen die bijvoorbeeld op weg naar de camping in Frankrijk via
>> België rijden,
> krijgen het
>> niet vergoed. De Vlaamse regering wil met het geld de wegen opknappen
>> en
> het
>> openbaar vervoer verbeteren.
>>
>> Overigens is de 60 euro die het vignet gaat kosten alleen voor een
> jaarvignet.
>> Er komen ook goedkopere versies voor bijvoorbeeld tien dagen, zei Van
> Brempt."
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
> The planned refund to Belgian registered vehicle owners just means
> that the Belgian government will be discriminating against
> non-Belgians which is against the rules of the EC.

I didn't see anything about a 'refund'. I read that the road taxes
currently paid would be reduced. That's not the same. I imagine that the
system will be the say as in Austria & Switzerland.


> BTW when I next come to Europe I intend to lease a car from CDG and
> drive to Vlissingen. The leased vehicle will be registered in my name
> and Australian address. Will the Belgians try to chase me for any fine
> if they catch me?

Paying the fee to use the motorway will probably be cheaper than the
fine.
 
Old Jan 14th 2007, 6:13 am
  #60  
Tim.....
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Planned Belgian motorway tax

"gerrit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
> motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using
> their
>> >> crappy motorways :-(
>> >>
>> >> B;
>> >>
>> >
>> >Austria and Switzerland already do
>>
>> and France and Italy and ...
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
> In France and Italy the locals also pay the same for the use of their toll
> roads.

As will the Belgians.

But the Dutch arguement is that the Belgians wil pay a
reduced car tax so they will see no overall increase and
hence that Belgians are getting their motorway pass for
free.

But that's rubbish, they will still be paying a tax to use
the roads.

tim

>
> Gerrit
>
>
 

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