Passport Eligibility...
May 25th 2004, 1:40 pm
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Passport Eligibility...
Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
questions.
I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties. I
assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father - also
British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible for
British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from mother.
Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988 that
said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some clarification
on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
well.
Marcus
questions.
I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties. I
assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father - also
British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible for
British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from mother.
Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988 that
said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some clarification
on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
well.
Marcus
May 25th 2004, 4:12 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
In article <OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win>,
"Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> questions.
>
> I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties. I
> assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
>
> I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father - also
> British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible for
> British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from mother.
>
> Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988 that
> said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some clarification
> on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> well.
see this. It would appear your 1/2 sibs ARe British citizens
"5. Will a child who is born in the United Kingdom from 1 January 1983
be a British citizen? (see Chart A)
The child will be a British citizen if one of his or her parents (see
Note 4) is a British citizen at the time of the birth. It does not
matter how the parent concerned became a British citizen. If neither
parent is a British citizen, the child will still be a British citizen
if one of his or her parents is settled here (see Note 5) at the time of
the birth. If neither of the child's parents is a British citizen and
neither is settled in the United Kingdom, then the child will not be a
British citizen when he or she is born."
and
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/filestore/Chart_A.pdf
I hope it is comprehensive enough.
"Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> questions.
>
> I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties. I
> assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
>
> I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father - also
> British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible for
> British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from mother.
>
> Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988 that
> said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some clarification
> on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> well.
see this. It would appear your 1/2 sibs ARe British citizens
"5. Will a child who is born in the United Kingdom from 1 January 1983
be a British citizen? (see Chart A)
The child will be a British citizen if one of his or her parents (see
Note 4) is a British citizen at the time of the birth. It does not
matter how the parent concerned became a British citizen. If neither
parent is a British citizen, the child will still be a British citizen
if one of his or her parents is settled here (see Note 5) at the time of
the birth. If neither of the child's parents is a British citizen and
neither is settled in the United Kingdom, then the child will not be a
British citizen when he or she is born."
and
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/filestore/Chart_A.pdf
I hope it is comprehensive enough.
May 25th 2004, 4:13 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
In article <OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win>,
"Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> questions.
>
> I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties. I
> assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
>
> I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father - also
> British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible for
> British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from mother.
In my previous response, I thought it was your mother who was British.
it seems that since the 1/2 sibs are bastards/illegitimate, they cannot
derive British citizenship from their father.
> Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988 that
> said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some clarification
> on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> well.
>
> Marcus
>
"Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> questions.
>
> I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties. I
> assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
>
> I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father - also
> British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible for
> British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from mother.
In my previous response, I thought it was your mother who was British.
it seems that since the 1/2 sibs are bastards/illegitimate, they cannot
derive British citizenship from their father.
> Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988 that
> said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some clarification
> on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> well.
>
> Marcus
>
May 25th 2004, 8:22 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
"Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In my previous response, I thought it was your mother who was British.
> it seems that since the 1/2 sibs are bastards/illegitimate, they cannot
> derive British citizenship from their father.
Shouldn't make any difference. Unless Marcus's unmarried stepfather is the
10th Lord Godall-Mitey, when the circumstances of his half-brother will
prevent his become 11th baron, the concept of "legitimacy" is pretty well
defunct. It certainly wouldn't prevent the children being British, if he is
named as the father on the birth cert. In any event, it sounds as if
Marcus's mother may well have right to claim British citzenship for her
children on the grounds of residency.
Alan Harrison
news:[email protected]...
> In my previous response, I thought it was your mother who was British.
> it seems that since the 1/2 sibs are bastards/illegitimate, they cannot
> derive British citizenship from their father.
Shouldn't make any difference. Unless Marcus's unmarried stepfather is the
10th Lord Godall-Mitey, when the circumstances of his half-brother will
prevent his become 11th baron, the concept of "legitimacy" is pretty well
defunct. It certainly wouldn't prevent the children being British, if he is
named as the father on the birth cert. In any event, it sounds as if
Marcus's mother may well have right to claim British citzenship for her
children on the grounds of residency.
Alan Harrison
May 26th 2004, 2:34 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
"Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win...
> Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> questions.
> I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties.
I
> assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
You are eligible for British passport. You obtained British nationality
through descent from a British father. Your place of birth is irrelevant. It
helps if your birth was registered at British consulate, but Irish
certificate plus proof of your father's nationality (e.g. passport, birth
certificate) will do. But you cannot pass on your nationality to any
children you may have, unless they are born in UK (and a few dependent
territories like Channel Islands, Falklands, Gib etc), because you are
British 'by descent'. Unless you were born in Northern Ireland.
> I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father -
also
> British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible
for
> British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from
mother.
They should also be eligible for British passport. They were born in UK of a
British father. And unlike you, they can pass on the nationality
irrespective of where their children are born, because they are British
'otherwise than by descent'. Difficulty can arise if their father isn't on
their birth certificate, in which case further proof will be needed. Also
perhaps their mother wasn't considered 'settled' in UK at that time, even
though Irish citizens have right of abode in UK (and vice versa).
> Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988
that
> said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some
clarification
> on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> well.
British Nationality Act 1981 came in on 1.1.83 and made radical changes to
citizenship. It made more difficult for children born abroad to claim
citizenship by descent, and deprived it from those born in UK of parents who
are not settled. One positive move was to enable British mothers to pass on
nationality. The act doesn't affect eligibility for any of you for
citizenship, but your ability to pass it on.
It's a very complicated piece of legislation (subsequently revised several
times e.g. Asylum & Immigration Act) and you should study the official Home
Office site: www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk
Alec
message news:OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win...
> Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> questions.
> I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties.
I
> assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
You are eligible for British passport. You obtained British nationality
through descent from a British father. Your place of birth is irrelevant. It
helps if your birth was registered at British consulate, but Irish
certificate plus proof of your father's nationality (e.g. passport, birth
certificate) will do. But you cannot pass on your nationality to any
children you may have, unless they are born in UK (and a few dependent
territories like Channel Islands, Falklands, Gib etc), because you are
British 'by descent'. Unless you were born in Northern Ireland.
> I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father -
also
> British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible
for
> British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from
mother.
They should also be eligible for British passport. They were born in UK of a
British father. And unlike you, they can pass on the nationality
irrespective of where their children are born, because they are British
'otherwise than by descent'. Difficulty can arise if their father isn't on
their birth certificate, in which case further proof will be needed. Also
perhaps their mother wasn't considered 'settled' in UK at that time, even
though Irish citizens have right of abode in UK (and vice versa).
> Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988
that
> said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some
clarification
> on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> well.
British Nationality Act 1981 came in on 1.1.83 and made radical changes to
citizenship. It made more difficult for children born abroad to claim
citizenship by descent, and deprived it from those born in UK of parents who
are not settled. One positive move was to enable British mothers to pass on
nationality. The act doesn't affect eligibility for any of you for
citizenship, but your ability to pass it on.
It's a very complicated piece of legislation (subsequently revised several
times e.g. Asylum & Immigration Act) and you should study the official Home
Office site: www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk
Alec
May 26th 2004, 3:23 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
In article <[email protected]>,
"Alec" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win...
> > Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> > questions.
> >
> > I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> > son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties.
> I
> > assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> > father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
> >
> You are eligible for British passport. You obtained British nationality
> through descent from a British father. Your place of birth is irrelevant. It
Not always true. He has British citizenship because he is a legitimate
issue of his British father.
> helps if your birth was registered at British consulate, but Irish
> certificate plus proof of your father's nationality (e.g. passport, birth
> certificate) will do. But you cannot pass on your nationality to any
> children you may have, unless they are born in UK (and a few dependent
> territories like Channel Islands, Falklands, Gib etc), because you are
> British 'by descent'. Unless you were born in Northern Ireland.
They have, however, right of abode in the U.K. and can obtain
citizenship if they live there long enough
> > I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father -
> also
> > British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> > England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible
> for
> > British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from
> mother.
> >
> They should also be eligible for British passport. They were born in UK of a
> British father. And unlike you, they can pass on the nationality
Depends... Not always and more difficult beause theya re not legitimate
issue.
> irrespective of where their children are born, because they are British
> 'otherwise than by descent'. Difficulty can arise if their father isn't on
> their birth certificate, in which case further proof will be needed. Also
> perhaps their mother wasn't considered 'settled' in UK at that time, even
> though Irish citizens have right of abode in UK (and vice versa).
> >
> > Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988
> that
> > said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> > Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> > nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some
> clarification
> > on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> > well.
> >
> British Nationality Act 1981 came in on 1.1.83 and made radical changes to
> citizenship. It made more difficult for children born abroad to claim
> citizenship by descent, and deprived it from those born in UK of parents who
> are not settled. One positive move was to enable British mothers to pass on
> nationality. The act doesn't affect eligibility for any of you for
> citizenship, but your ability to pass it on.
> It's a very complicated piece of legislation (subsequently revised several
> times e.g. Asylum & Immigration Act) and you should study the official Home
> Office site: www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk
>
> Alec
>
"Alec" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win...
> > Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> > questions.
> >
> > I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> > son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties.
> I
> > assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> > father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
> >
> You are eligible for British passport. You obtained British nationality
> through descent from a British father. Your place of birth is irrelevant. It
Not always true. He has British citizenship because he is a legitimate
issue of his British father.
> helps if your birth was registered at British consulate, but Irish
> certificate plus proof of your father's nationality (e.g. passport, birth
> certificate) will do. But you cannot pass on your nationality to any
> children you may have, unless they are born in UK (and a few dependent
> territories like Channel Islands, Falklands, Gib etc), because you are
> British 'by descent'. Unless you were born in Northern Ireland.
They have, however, right of abode in the U.K. and can obtain
citizenship if they live there long enough
> > I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father -
> also
> > British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> > England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible
> for
> > British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from
> mother.
> >
> They should also be eligible for British passport. They were born in UK of a
> British father. And unlike you, they can pass on the nationality
Depends... Not always and more difficult beause theya re not legitimate
issue.
> irrespective of where their children are born, because they are British
> 'otherwise than by descent'. Difficulty can arise if their father isn't on
> their birth certificate, in which case further proof will be needed. Also
> perhaps their mother wasn't considered 'settled' in UK at that time, even
> though Irish citizens have right of abode in UK (and vice versa).
> >
> > Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988
> that
> > said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> > Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> > nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some
> clarification
> > on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> > well.
> >
> British Nationality Act 1981 came in on 1.1.83 and made radical changes to
> citizenship. It made more difficult for children born abroad to claim
> citizenship by descent, and deprived it from those born in UK of parents who
> are not settled. One positive move was to enable British mothers to pass on
> nationality. The act doesn't affect eligibility for any of you for
> citizenship, but your ability to pass it on.
> It's a very complicated piece of legislation (subsequently revised several
> times e.g. Asylum & Immigration Act) and you should study the official Home
> Office site: www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk
>
> Alec
>
May 26th 2004, 3:28 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
In article <[email protected]>,
"Alan Harrison" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > In my previous response, I thought it was your mother who was British.
> > it seems that since the 1/2 sibs are bastards/illegitimate, they cannot
> > derive British citizenship from their father.
>
> Shouldn't make any difference. Unless Marcus's unmarried stepfather is the
> 10th Lord Godall-Mitey, when the circumstances of his half-brother will
> prevent his become 11th baron, the concept of "legitimacy" is pretty well
> defunct. It certainly wouldn't prevent the children being British, if he is
hmmm, according to that U.K. immigration and nationality directorate
informaton I posted, it DOES make a difference.
"4. Parents
Only a legitimate child (born to parents who are married to each other)
can get British citizenship from the father. However, if the parents
are not married when the child is born in the United Kingdom, but then
get married, and the marriage legitimates the child then if the father
was a British citizen (or settled) when the child was born, the child
would become a British citizen and would be regarded as having been one
from birth."
"Alan Harrison" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > In my previous response, I thought it was your mother who was British.
> > it seems that since the 1/2 sibs are bastards/illegitimate, they cannot
> > derive British citizenship from their father.
>
> Shouldn't make any difference. Unless Marcus's unmarried stepfather is the
> 10th Lord Godall-Mitey, when the circumstances of his half-brother will
> prevent his become 11th baron, the concept of "legitimacy" is pretty well
> defunct. It certainly wouldn't prevent the children being British, if he is
hmmm, according to that U.K. immigration and nationality directorate
informaton I posted, it DOES make a difference.
"4. Parents
Only a legitimate child (born to parents who are married to each other)
can get British citizenship from the father. However, if the parents
are not married when the child is born in the United Kingdom, but then
get married, and the marriage legitimates the child then if the father
was a British citizen (or settled) when the child was born, the child
would become a British citizen and would be regarded as having been one
from birth."
May 26th 2004, 3:28 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
In article <[email protected]>,
"Alan Harrison" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > In my previous response, I thought it was your mother who was British.
> > it seems that since the 1/2 sibs are bastards/illegitimate, they cannot
> > derive British citizenship from their father.
>
> Shouldn't make any difference. Unless Marcus's unmarried stepfather is the
> 10th Lord Godall-Mitey, when the circumstances of his half-brother will
> prevent his become 11th baron, the concept of "legitimacy" is pretty well
> defunct. It certainly wouldn't prevent the children being British, if he is
> named as the father on the birth cert. In any event, it sounds as if
> Marcus's mother may well have right to claim British citzenship for her
> children on the grounds of residency.
As long as the parents were "settled" in the U.K. at time of birth, it
would appear so.
"Alan Harrison" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > In my previous response, I thought it was your mother who was British.
> > it seems that since the 1/2 sibs are bastards/illegitimate, they cannot
> > derive British citizenship from their father.
>
> Shouldn't make any difference. Unless Marcus's unmarried stepfather is the
> 10th Lord Godall-Mitey, when the circumstances of his half-brother will
> prevent his become 11th baron, the concept of "legitimacy" is pretty well
> defunct. It certainly wouldn't prevent the children being British, if he is
> named as the father on the birth cert. In any event, it sounds as if
> Marcus's mother may well have right to claim British citzenship for her
> children on the grounds of residency.
As long as the parents were "settled" in the U.K. at time of birth, it
would appear so.
May 26th 2004, 4:32 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
"Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Alec" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message news:OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win...
> > > Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted
my
> > > questions.
> > >
> > > I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI
passport),
> > > son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the
fifties.
> > I
> > > assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> > > father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
> > >
> > You are eligible for British passport. You obtained British nationality
> > through descent from a British father. Your place of birth is
irrelevant. It
> Not always true. He has British citizenship because he is a legitimate
> issue of his British father.
> > helps if your birth was registered at British consulate, but Irish
> > certificate plus proof of your father's nationality (e.g. passport,
birth
> > certificate) will do. But you cannot pass on your nationality to any
> > children you may have, unless they are born in UK (and a few dependent
> > territories like Channel Islands, Falklands, Gib etc), because you are
> > British 'by descent'. Unless you were born in Northern Ireland.
> They have, however, right of abode in the U.K. and can obtain
> citizenship if they live there long enough
> > > I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different
father -
> > also
> > > British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> > > England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not
eligible
> > for
> > > British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from
> > mother.
> > >
> > They should also be eligible for British passport. They were born in UK
of a
> > British father. And unlike you, they can pass on the nationality
> Depends... Not always and more difficult beause theya re not legitimate
> issue.
You are right on that. Parents need to be married to each other before you
can claim citizenship from your British father. You can claim descent from
your mother regardless of her marital status. Before you are 18, your father
can apply for citizenship on your behalf. After 18, you need to be resident
in UK or qualifying territory for 3 years before you can be 'registered' as
British.
> > irrespective of where their children are born, because they are British
> > 'otherwise than by descent'. Difficulty can arise if their father isn't
on
> > their birth certificate, in which case further proof will be needed.
Also
> > perhaps their mother wasn't considered 'settled' in UK at that time,
even
> > though Irish citizens have right of abode in UK (and vice versa).
> > >
> > > Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988
> > that
> > > said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something
that
> > > Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining
British
> > > nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some
> > clarification
> > > on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this
too
> > > well.
> > >
> > British Nationality Act 1981 came in on 1.1.83 and made radical changes
to
> > citizenship. It made more difficult for children born abroad to claim
> > citizenship by descent, and deprived it from those born in UK of parents
who
> > are not settled. One positive move was to enable British mothers to pass
on
> > nationality. The act doesn't affect eligibility for any of you for
> > citizenship, but your ability to pass it on.
> > It's a very complicated piece of legislation (subsequently revised
several
> > times e.g. Asylum & Immigration Act) and you should study the official
Home
> > Office site: www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk
> >
> > Alec
> >
> >
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Alec" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message news:OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win...
> > > Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted
my
> > > questions.
> > >
> > > I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI
passport),
> > > son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the
fifties.
> > I
> > > assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> > > father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
> > >
> > You are eligible for British passport. You obtained British nationality
> > through descent from a British father. Your place of birth is
irrelevant. It
> Not always true. He has British citizenship because he is a legitimate
> issue of his British father.
> > helps if your birth was registered at British consulate, but Irish
> > certificate plus proof of your father's nationality (e.g. passport,
birth
> > certificate) will do. But you cannot pass on your nationality to any
> > children you may have, unless they are born in UK (and a few dependent
> > territories like Channel Islands, Falklands, Gib etc), because you are
> > British 'by descent'. Unless you were born in Northern Ireland.
> They have, however, right of abode in the U.K. and can obtain
> citizenship if they live there long enough
> > > I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different
father -
> > also
> > > British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> > > England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not
eligible
> > for
> > > British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from
> > mother.
> > >
> > They should also be eligible for British passport. They were born in UK
of a
> > British father. And unlike you, they can pass on the nationality
> Depends... Not always and more difficult beause theya re not legitimate
> issue.
You are right on that. Parents need to be married to each other before you
can claim citizenship from your British father. You can claim descent from
your mother regardless of her marital status. Before you are 18, your father
can apply for citizenship on your behalf. After 18, you need to be resident
in UK or qualifying territory for 3 years before you can be 'registered' as
British.
> > irrespective of where their children are born, because they are British
> > 'otherwise than by descent'. Difficulty can arise if their father isn't
on
> > their birth certificate, in which case further proof will be needed.
Also
> > perhaps their mother wasn't considered 'settled' in UK at that time,
even
> > though Irish citizens have right of abode in UK (and vice versa).
> > >
> > > Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988
> > that
> > > said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something
that
> > > Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining
British
> > > nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some
> > clarification
> > > on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this
too
> > > well.
> > >
> > British Nationality Act 1981 came in on 1.1.83 and made radical changes
to
> > citizenship. It made more difficult for children born abroad to claim
> > citizenship by descent, and deprived it from those born in UK of parents
who
> > are not settled. One positive move was to enable British mothers to pass
on
> > nationality. The act doesn't affect eligibility for any of you for
> > citizenship, but your ability to pass it on.
> > It's a very complicated piece of legislation (subsequently revised
several
> > times e.g. Asylum & Immigration Act) and you should study the official
Home
> > Office site: www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk
> >
> > Alec
> >
> >
May 26th 2004, 7:28 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
> http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/filestore/Chart_A.pdf
> I hope it is comprehensive enough.
The link you have directed me to states that "only a legitimate child can
derive British citizenship from the father", as there is an asterisk next to
the word parents in the part of the flow-chart which says " Was one of the
parents* a British citizen when the person was born? Yes/No?" Where Yes
indicates "Person will automatically become a British citizen".
Marcus
> I hope it is comprehensive enough.
The link you have directed me to states that "only a legitimate child can
derive British citizenship from the father", as there is an asterisk next to
the word parents in the part of the flow-chart which says " Was one of the
parents* a British citizen when the person was born? Yes/No?" Where Yes
indicates "Person will automatically become a British citizen".
Marcus
May 26th 2004, 7:35 am
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
> You are right on that. Parents need to be married to each other before you
> can claim citizenship from your British father. You can claim descent from
> your mother regardless of her marital status. Before you are 18, your
father
> can apply for citizenship on your behalf. After 18, you need to be
resident
> in UK or qualifying territory for 3 years before you can be 'registered'
as
> British.
Yeah, thats the problem, mother is Irish, father is British, but parents
unmarried. Issue of my nationality is not in doubt, as my parents were
married (but now divorced). Would it however have made any difference to my
citizenship if my parents had not been married? I was born in 1979, in
Ireland, before the BNA.
Doesn't look likely that my mother and stepfather will be getting married
:P. Brother and sister have UK birth certificates, born in Chatham, Kent,
but due to the unmarried parents issue, have been refused British passports.
Marcus
> can claim citizenship from your British father. You can claim descent from
> your mother regardless of her marital status. Before you are 18, your
father
> can apply for citizenship on your behalf. After 18, you need to be
resident
> in UK or qualifying territory for 3 years before you can be 'registered'
as
> British.
Yeah, thats the problem, mother is Irish, father is British, but parents
unmarried. Issue of my nationality is not in doubt, as my parents were
married (but now divorced). Would it however have made any difference to my
citizenship if my parents had not been married? I was born in 1979, in
Ireland, before the BNA.
Doesn't look likely that my mother and stepfather will be getting married
:P. Brother and sister have UK birth certificates, born in Chatham, Kent,
but due to the unmarried parents issue, have been refused British passports.
Marcus
May 26th 2004, 10:04 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
"Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:Eb7tc.239$44.144@newsfe4-win...
> Doesn't look likely that my mother and stepfather will be getting married
> :P. Brother and sister have UK birth certificates, born in Chatham, Kent,
> but due to the unmarried parents issue, have been refused British
passports.
An absurd and iniquitous situation, Marcus. I think that they should qualify
on the basis of your mother's being setteled here. I also suggest that you
should make yourself a thorough bloody nuisance to your Member of Parliament
until they have British passports in their hot little mitts.
Alan Harrison
message news:Eb7tc.239$44.144@newsfe4-win...
> Doesn't look likely that my mother and stepfather will be getting married
> :P. Brother and sister have UK birth certificates, born in Chatham, Kent,
> but due to the unmarried parents issue, have been refused British
passports.
An absurd and iniquitous situation, Marcus. I think that they should qualify
on the basis of your mother's being setteled here. I also suggest that you
should make yourself a thorough bloody nuisance to your Member of Parliament
until they have British passports in their hot little mitts.
Alan Harrison
May 26th 2004, 10:19 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
In article <[email protected]>,
"Alan Harrison" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:Eb7tc.239$44.144@newsfe4-win...
>
> > Doesn't look likely that my mother and stepfather will be getting married
> > :P. Brother and sister have UK birth certificates, born in Chatham, Kent,
> > but due to the unmarried parents issue, have been refused British
> passports.
>
> An absurd and iniquitous situation, Marcus. I think that they should qualify
> on the basis of your mother's being setteled here. I also suggest that you
What is the definition of "settled"? Being resident legally in the U.K.?
> should make yourself a thorough bloody nuisance to your Member of Parliament
> until they have British passports in their hot little mitts.
Other than not having the right to vote and in the event that the U.K.
leaves the E.U., are there any signficant disadvantages to being an
Irish citizen in the U.K?
"Alan Harrison" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:Eb7tc.239$44.144@newsfe4-win...
>
> > Doesn't look likely that my mother and stepfather will be getting married
> > :P. Brother and sister have UK birth certificates, born in Chatham, Kent,
> > but due to the unmarried parents issue, have been refused British
> passports.
>
> An absurd and iniquitous situation, Marcus. I think that they should qualify
> on the basis of your mother's being setteled here. I also suggest that you
What is the definition of "settled"? Being resident legally in the U.K.?
> should make yourself a thorough bloody nuisance to your Member of Parliament
> until they have British passports in their hot little mitts.
Other than not having the right to vote and in the event that the U.K.
leaves the E.U., are there any signficant disadvantages to being an
Irish citizen in the U.K?
May 26th 2004, 12:25 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
"Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:Eb7tc.239$44.144@newsfe4-win...
> > You are right on that. Parents need to be married to each other before
you
> > can claim citizenship from your British father. You can claim descent
from
> > your mother regardless of her marital status. Before you are 18, your
> father
> > can apply for citizenship on your behalf. After 18, you need to be
> resident
> > in UK or qualifying territory for 3 years before you can be 'registered'
> as
> > British.
> Yeah, thats the problem, mother is Irish, father is British, but parents
> unmarried. Issue of my nationality is not in doubt, as my parents were
> married (but now divorced). Would it however have made any difference to
my
> citizenship if my parents had not been married? I was born in 1979, in
> Ireland, before the BNA.
> Doesn't look likely that my mother and stepfather will be getting married
> :P. Brother and sister have UK birth certificates, born in Chatham, Kent,
> but due to the unmarried parents issue, have been refused British
passports.
Well, according to nationality rules, a child born in UK after 1.1.83 is a
British citizen if one of the parents is a British citizen. If the father is
British, then they have to be married to each other (or do so subsequently).
If neither of them is British, then one of them has to be settled in UK.
'Settled' here means living in UK without time limit. With regard to EEA
national including Irish living in UK, prior to 2000 they were considered to
be settled, but since then only those who are unconditionally resident as a
pensioner, or unable to work due to incapacity, are considered as settled
(but those not working or have insufficient income cannot become a burden on
the state and remain in UK). So it seems the argument hinges on their Irish
mother's precise resident status at the time of their birth. I'm not sure
under immigration and nationality laws Irish citizens are treated
differently from other EU/EEA nationals. I know they can vote, enter armed
service, police, civil service etc.
Alec
message news:Eb7tc.239$44.144@newsfe4-win...
> > You are right on that. Parents need to be married to each other before
you
> > can claim citizenship from your British father. You can claim descent
from
> > your mother regardless of her marital status. Before you are 18, your
> father
> > can apply for citizenship on your behalf. After 18, you need to be
> resident
> > in UK or qualifying territory for 3 years before you can be 'registered'
> as
> > British.
> Yeah, thats the problem, mother is Irish, father is British, but parents
> unmarried. Issue of my nationality is not in doubt, as my parents were
> married (but now divorced). Would it however have made any difference to
my
> citizenship if my parents had not been married? I was born in 1979, in
> Ireland, before the BNA.
> Doesn't look likely that my mother and stepfather will be getting married
> :P. Brother and sister have UK birth certificates, born in Chatham, Kent,
> but due to the unmarried parents issue, have been refused British
passports.
Well, according to nationality rules, a child born in UK after 1.1.83 is a
British citizen if one of the parents is a British citizen. If the father is
British, then they have to be married to each other (or do so subsequently).
If neither of them is British, then one of them has to be settled in UK.
'Settled' here means living in UK without time limit. With regard to EEA
national including Irish living in UK, prior to 2000 they were considered to
be settled, but since then only those who are unconditionally resident as a
pensioner, or unable to work due to incapacity, are considered as settled
(but those not working or have insufficient income cannot become a burden on
the state and remain in UK). So it seems the argument hinges on their Irish
mother's precise resident status at the time of their birth. I'm not sure
under immigration and nationality laws Irish citizens are treated
differently from other EU/EEA nationals. I know they can vote, enter armed
service, police, civil service etc.
Alec
Jun 2nd 2004, 9:45 am
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Passport Eligibility...
"Marcus Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<OrTsc.266$XI5.135@newsfe2-win>...
> Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> questions.
>
> I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties. I
> assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
If your father was born or naturalised in the UK, then you are a
British citizen. However, you are a British citizen by descent, which
means any children you have born in the ROI (or elsewhere outside the
UK) will not automatically be British. They may be registered as such
if they meet the requirements.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=148
If you have children born outside the ROI/Northern Ireland they will
be Irish citizens by descent automatically.
>
> I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father - also
> British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible for
> British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from mother.
They *are* British, even if they have been told otherwise.
From 1 January 1983 birth in the UK does not automatically confer
British citizenship. One parent must be a British citizen or
permanent resident ('settled' in the UK).
There are complications in trying to claim British citizenship from an
unmarried father, although the Home Office will now register (in most
cases) non-British children of an unmarried UK father as British
citizens if the children would have been British had the parents been
married. Application for this kind of registration must be made
before age 18.
However, in the case you cite, children born in the UK with an Irish
citizen mother (resident in the UK) are automatically British and it
is not necessary to even look at the father's status. This is because
Irish citizens are automatically considered settled in the UK.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/def...sp?PageId=1796
The position for citizens of other EEA countries did change from 2
October 2000 (in that EEA citizens from that date are not considered
settled in most cases) but Irish citizens were not affected by that
change.
>
> Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988 that
> said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some clarification
> on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> well.
Yes - the British Nationality Act of 1981, in force from 1 January
1983, changed a lot of laws regarding British nationality.
Irish citizens are considered settled for the purposes of this Act,
and generally children born in the UK to Irish people are British (as
if the parents were British themselves).
Jeremy
> Always wondered this, and the other post about the passports prompted my
> questions.
>
> I was born in Ireland in 1979 (and so eligible, and hold an ROI passport),
> son of British father and Irish mother, both married, born in the fifties. I
> assume that I am eligible for a British passport through descent from
> father, but have not confirmed this. My parents are now divorced.
If your father was born or naturalised in the UK, then you are a
British citizen. However, you are a British citizen by descent, which
means any children you have born in the ROI (or elsewhere outside the
UK) will not automatically be British. They may be registered as such
if they meet the requirements.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=148
If you have children born outside the ROI/Northern Ireland they will
be Irish citizens by descent automatically.
>
> I have a half sister and half brother, (same mother, different father - also
> British) but parents unmarried. Born in 1988 and 1993 respectively, in
> England and hence have british birth certificates. They are not eligible for
> British passports! But eligible for Irish ones through descent from mother.
They *are* British, even if they have been told otherwise.
From 1 January 1983 birth in the UK does not automatically confer
British citizenship. One parent must be a British citizen or
permanent resident ('settled' in the UK).
There are complications in trying to claim British citizenship from an
unmarried father, although the Home Office will now register (in most
cases) non-British children of an unmarried UK father as British
citizens if the children would have been British had the parents been
married. Application for this kind of registration must be made
before age 18.
However, in the case you cite, children born in the UK with an Irish
citizen mother (resident in the UK) are automatically British and it
is not necessary to even look at the father's status. This is because
Irish citizens are automatically considered settled in the UK.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/def...sp?PageId=1796
The position for citizens of other EEA countries did change from 2
October 2000 (in that EEA citizens from that date are not considered
settled in most cases) but Irish citizens were not affected by that
change.
>
> Was there some law brought in between 1979, year of my birth, and 1988 that
> said that children obtain the nationality from the mother? Something that
> Thatcher introduced to prevent immigrants/asylum seekers gaining British
> nationality? Or is it because the parents are unmarried? Some clarification
> on this would be great. Passport Office website does not explain this too
> well.
Yes - the British Nationality Act of 1981, in force from 1 January
1983, changed a lot of laws regarding British nationality.
Irish citizens are considered settled for the purposes of this Act,
and generally children born in the UK to Irish people are British (as
if the parents were British themselves).
Jeremy
