Paris Ticket Scam
Aug 5th 2004, 12:27 pm
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris Ticket Scam
Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles writes:
> Sometimes it's easy to forget that things one takes for granted back home
> work quite differently elsewhere. In the US, credit cards are read by
> machines that you stick your card into and then pull back out (by hand).
> The card is read simply from the sliding action *you* provide. There are
> probably 200 million US folk who would think that's the only way credit
> cards are read... the "smart" cards with embedded info on a chip simply
> haven't happened here (they tried a few years ago, but they went nowhere).
>
> The funny thing is that someone in the US has simply known no other way for
> a credit card to work, and credit cards are such an integral part of life
> that there's an assumption that that's simply the way the world must work.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
The machines in the Métro don't completely swallow my card; the card is
always extending partially from the machine. Assuming they do not
behave differently for cards without a chip (perhaps by detecting the
presence of a chip), this means that they cannot be reading the magnetic
stripe, because doing that requires drawing the entire card past a read
station.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Sometimes it's easy to forget that things one takes for granted back home
> work quite differently elsewhere. In the US, credit cards are read by
> machines that you stick your card into and then pull back out (by hand).
> The card is read simply from the sliding action *you* provide. There are
> probably 200 million US folk who would think that's the only way credit
> cards are read... the "smart" cards with embedded info on a chip simply
> haven't happened here (they tried a few years ago, but they went nowhere).
>
> The funny thing is that someone in the US has simply known no other way for
> a credit card to work, and credit cards are such an integral part of life
> that there's an assumption that that's simply the way the world must work.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
The machines in the Métro don't completely swallow my card; the card is
always extending partially from the machine. Assuming they do not
behave differently for cards without a chip (perhaps by detecting the
presence of a chip), this means that they cannot be reading the magnetic
stripe, because doing that requires drawing the entire card past a read
station.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Aug 5th 2004, 2:32 pm
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris Ticket Scam
The machines would not take my Mastercard or Visa (from USA banks). I had to
go to the counter.
This was in Clamart on 7/28.
"Joe Gradeless" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just got back from a great four-day break in Paris (first time).
> However I thought I would warn people about a ticket scam which operates
in
> the Metro ticket hall at the Gard du Nord - but no reason not to assume it
> doesn't work elsewhere.
> I waited in a longish queue to buy a carnet of tickets for the metro (10
> tickets for the price of 7 cost 10.50 Euro). I was approached by a man who
> told me that there were ticket issuing machines available in another part
of
> the hall. I (foolishly) went with him. He bought me the tickets using his
> credit card (although I have no doubt it was stolen) - he told me the
> machine only accepted French cards. He then wanted the money for the
tickets
> (50.10 Euro). I realised I was the potential victim of a scam and told him
I
> only had a credit card (I must remember to confess my lie). He wasn't very
> happy.
> I rejoined the queue and noticed that there were 2 other (at least)
> operating the same scam.
> Jo
go to the counter.
This was in Clamart on 7/28.
"Joe Gradeless" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just got back from a great four-day break in Paris (first time).
> However I thought I would warn people about a ticket scam which operates
in
> the Metro ticket hall at the Gard du Nord - but no reason not to assume it
> doesn't work elsewhere.
> I waited in a longish queue to buy a carnet of tickets for the metro (10
> tickets for the price of 7 cost 10.50 Euro). I was approached by a man who
> told me that there were ticket issuing machines available in another part
of
> the hall. I (foolishly) went with him. He bought me the tickets using his
> credit card (although I have no doubt it was stolen) - he told me the
> machine only accepted French cards. He then wanted the money for the
tickets
> (50.10 Euro). I realised I was the potential victim of a scam and told him
I
> only had a credit card (I must remember to confess my lie). He wasn't very
> happy.
> I rejoined the queue and noticed that there were 2 other (at least)
> operating the same scam.
> Jo
Aug 5th 2004, 9:35 pm
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris Ticket Scam
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
> Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles writes:
>
> > Sometimes it's easy to forget that things one takes for granted back home
> > work quite differently elsewhere. In the US, credit cards are read by
> > machines that you stick your card into and then pull back out (by hand).
> > The card is read simply from the sliding action *you* provide. There are
> > probably 200 million US folk who would think that's the only way credit
> > cards are read... the "smart" cards with embedded info on a chip simply
> > haven't happened here (they tried a few years ago, but they went nowhere).
> >
> > The funny thing is that someone in the US has simply known no other way for
> > a credit card to work, and credit cards are such an integral part of life
> > that there's an assumption that that's simply the way the world must work.
>
> I have no idea what you are trying to say.
>
> The machines in the Métro don't completely swallow my card; the card is
> always extending partially from the machine. Assuming they do not
> behave differently for cards without a chip (perhaps by detecting the
> presence of a chip), this means that they cannot be reading the magnetic
> stripe, because doing that requires drawing the entire card past a read
> station.
Perhaps is the info written only on a part of the card stripe. Ive got
a prepaid night club entrance card of which I broke both angles on the
side of the stripe and without a chip. It still works. So the info is
only on the middle of the stripe on this card.
didier Meurgues
> Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles writes:
>
> > Sometimes it's easy to forget that things one takes for granted back home
> > work quite differently elsewhere. In the US, credit cards are read by
> > machines that you stick your card into and then pull back out (by hand).
> > The card is read simply from the sliding action *you* provide. There are
> > probably 200 million US folk who would think that's the only way credit
> > cards are read... the "smart" cards with embedded info on a chip simply
> > haven't happened here (they tried a few years ago, but they went nowhere).
> >
> > The funny thing is that someone in the US has simply known no other way for
> > a credit card to work, and credit cards are such an integral part of life
> > that there's an assumption that that's simply the way the world must work.
>
> I have no idea what you are trying to say.
>
> The machines in the Métro don't completely swallow my card; the card is
> always extending partially from the machine. Assuming they do not
> behave differently for cards without a chip (perhaps by detecting the
> presence of a chip), this means that they cannot be reading the magnetic
> stripe, because doing that requires drawing the entire card past a read
> station.
Perhaps is the info written only on a part of the card stripe. Ive got
a prepaid night club entrance card of which I broke both angles on the
side of the stripe and without a chip. It still works. So the info is
only on the middle of the stripe on this card.
didier Meurgues
Aug 5th 2004, 10:12 pm
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris Ticket Scam
meurgues writes:
> Perhaps is the info written only on a part of the card stripe.
As far as I know, the information tracks extend nearly to the ends of
the card. To read the card successfully, the entire card must be moved
past the read station at a reasonable speed. Since the card always
extends a bit from the slot in the Métro machines and has no other
motion other than the slow and irregular motion I impart to it while
inserting it, I don't see how the machine can read the stripe on a card,
although it's easy to see how it could read the chip (all it needs is
some contacts right inside the slot for that--the card need not be fully
inserted, and in fact most chip-oriented readers don't require full
insertion).
> Ive got a prepaid night club entrance card of which I broke both
> angles on the side of the stripe and without a chip. It still works.
> So the info is only on the middle of the stripe on this card.
It may use a very simple track format for reliability, like Métro
tickets do.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Perhaps is the info written only on a part of the card stripe.
As far as I know, the information tracks extend nearly to the ends of
the card. To read the card successfully, the entire card must be moved
past the read station at a reasonable speed. Since the card always
extends a bit from the slot in the Métro machines and has no other
motion other than the slow and irregular motion I impart to it while
inserting it, I don't see how the machine can read the stripe on a card,
although it's easy to see how it could read the chip (all it needs is
some contacts right inside the slot for that--the card need not be fully
inserted, and in fact most chip-oriented readers don't require full
insertion).
> Ive got a prepaid night club entrance card of which I broke both
> angles on the side of the stripe and without a chip. It still works.
> So the info is only on the middle of the stripe on this card.
It may use a very simple track format for reliability, like Métro
tickets do.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Aug 6th 2004, 1:43 pm
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris Ticket Scam
> The machines in the Métro don't completely swallow my card; the card is
> always extending partially from the machine. Assuming they do not
> behave differently for cards without a chip (perhaps by detecting the
> presence of a chip), this means that they cannot be reading the magnetic
> stripe, because doing that requires drawing the entire card past a read
> station.
I recall the Metro ticket machines having two card slots, not one, and
wondering how the first one could possibly work with a credit card until I
found the second slot. Or my memory could still be fuzzy... darn... I'll
try and see if I took a picture of one. The only thing I can guarantee is
that I did use my non-smart credit-card to buy Metro tickets from the
machines, more than once.
Y'know, if it wasn't for the joys of an 11-hour flight, I'd just have to hop
on a plane and head back to Paris to straighten this one out! (If I did
that, it would probably be during the third week of September; did that a
couple years ago and had the best-time imaginable... very few crowds,
awesome weather, cheap air & hotel fare... what's not to like?)
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles writes:
> > Sometimes it's easy to forget that things one takes for granted back
home
> > work quite differently elsewhere. In the US, credit cards are read by
> > machines that you stick your card into and then pull back out (by hand).
> > The card is read simply from the sliding action *you* provide. There
are
> > probably 200 million US folk who would think that's the only way credit
> > cards are read... the "smart" cards with embedded info on a chip simply
> > haven't happened here (they tried a few years ago, but they went
nowhere).
> >
> > The funny thing is that someone in the US has simply known no other way
for
> > a credit card to work, and credit cards are such an integral part of
life
> > that there's an assumption that that's simply the way the world must
work.
> I have no idea what you are trying to say.
> The machines in the Métro don't completely swallow my card; the card is
> always extending partially from the machine. Assuming they do not
> behave differently for cards without a chip (perhaps by detecting the
> presence of a chip), this means that they cannot be reading the magnetic
> stripe, because doing that requires drawing the entire card past a read
> station.
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> always extending partially from the machine. Assuming they do not
> behave differently for cards without a chip (perhaps by detecting the
> presence of a chip), this means that they cannot be reading the magnetic
> stripe, because doing that requires drawing the entire card past a read
> station.
I recall the Metro ticket machines having two card slots, not one, and
wondering how the first one could possibly work with a credit card until I
found the second slot. Or my memory could still be fuzzy... darn... I'll
try and see if I took a picture of one. The only thing I can guarantee is
that I did use my non-smart credit-card to buy Metro tickets from the
machines, more than once.
Y'know, if it wasn't for the joys of an 11-hour flight, I'd just have to hop
on a plane and head back to Paris to straighten this one out! (If I did
that, it would probably be during the third week of September; did that a
couple years ago and had the best-time imaginable... very few crowds,
awesome weather, cheap air & hotel fare... what's not to like?)
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles writes:
> > Sometimes it's easy to forget that things one takes for granted back
home
> > work quite differently elsewhere. In the US, credit cards are read by
> > machines that you stick your card into and then pull back out (by hand).
> > The card is read simply from the sliding action *you* provide. There
are
> > probably 200 million US folk who would think that's the only way credit
> > cards are read... the "smart" cards with embedded info on a chip simply
> > haven't happened here (they tried a few years ago, but they went
nowhere).
> >
> > The funny thing is that someone in the US has simply known no other way
for
> > a credit card to work, and credit cards are such an integral part of
life
> > that there's an assumption that that's simply the way the world must
work.
> I have no idea what you are trying to say.
> The machines in the Métro don't completely swallow my card; the card is
> always extending partially from the machine. Assuming they do not
> behave differently for cards without a chip (perhaps by detecting the
> presence of a chip), this means that they cannot be reading the magnetic
> stripe, because doing that requires drawing the entire card past a read
> station.
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Aug 9th 2004, 1:14 am
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German and French rail ticket machines
OCEANRADIO schrieb:
> Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the German and
> French rail ticket machines?
Some French rail ticket machines accept only French cards AFAIK.
However, I'm aware of no such restriction regarding German rail ticket
machines. A machine which accepts credit cards should take yours.
... Martin
> Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the German and
> French rail ticket machines?
Some French rail ticket machines accept only French cards AFAIK.
However, I'm aware of no such restriction regarding German rail ticket
machines. A machine which accepts credit cards should take yours.
... Martin
Aug 9th 2004, 1:47 am
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German and French rail ticket machines
>However, I'm aware of no such restriction regarding German rail ticket
>machines. A machine which accepts credit cards should take yours.
I agree, but for the past few years it has not. I have written MasterCard and
the help desk says they've never had any trouble. But the guy admitted he'd
never been to Europe. I've just gotten another credit card since my bank,
USAA, will not pursue this problem. I'm anxious to see whether it will let me
buy tickets in German rail machines since it's usually much faster buying from
a machine than standing in line at a station.
John
>machines. A machine which accepts credit cards should take yours.
I agree, but for the past few years it has not. I have written MasterCard and
the help desk says they've never had any trouble. But the guy admitted he'd
never been to Europe. I've just gotten another credit card since my bank,
USAA, will not pursue this problem. I'm anxious to see whether it will let me
buy tickets in German rail machines since it's usually much faster buying from
a machine than standing in line at a station.
John
Aug 9th 2004, 5:24 am
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German and French rail ticket machines
OCEANRADIO) wrote
>Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the German and
> French rail ticket machines?
> Interestingly, it does work in the Paris Metro ticket machines.
> I've complained to MasterCard and my bank and they both say they haven't had
> this problem (probably because they never travel overseas).
> The card is always accepted at the ticket counter. Since some stations are not
> manned, this isn't good enough.
> John
Try to get an up-to-date card with a chip on it.
That should work
>Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the German and
> French rail ticket machines?
> Interestingly, it does work in the Paris Metro ticket machines.
> I've complained to MasterCard and my bank and they both say they haven't had
> this problem (probably because they never travel overseas).
> The card is always accepted at the ticket counter. Since some stations are not
> manned, this isn't good enough.
> John
Try to get an up-to-date card with a chip on it.
That should work
Aug 9th 2004, 11:10 am
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German and French rail ticket machines
I agree, many machines in France are dealing with debit cards that
have a chip in them, aka a Smart Card. If your bank in the US offers
one, then get it and save yourself some worries about carrying cash.
Don
Paris travelogues: http://www.visitparis.com
[email protected] ([email protected]) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> OCEANRADIO) wrote
> >Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the German and
> > French rail ticket machines?
[snip]
>
> Try to get an up-to-date card with a chip on it.
> That should work
have a chip in them, aka a Smart Card. If your bank in the US offers
one, then get it and save yourself some worries about carrying cash.
Don
Paris travelogues: http://www.visitparis.com
[email protected] ([email protected]) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> OCEANRADIO) wrote
> >Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the German and
> > French rail ticket machines?
[snip]
>
> Try to get an up-to-date card with a chip on it.
> That should work
Aug 9th 2004, 3:44 pm
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German and French rail ticket machines
In article <[email protected]>,
OCEANRADIO <[email protected]> wrote:
>Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the German and
>French rail ticket machines?
Our MasterCard worked the one time we used it in a German Rail ticket
machine in June, in Bonn. It was the standard type of machine that is in
all the stations we visited, and which we used frequently for looking up
schedules. So your problem couldn't have been a general MasterCard
problem.
--
Jon Bell <[email protected]> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA
OCEANRADIO <[email protected]> wrote:
>Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the German and
>French rail ticket machines?
Our MasterCard worked the one time we used it in a German Rail ticket
machine in June, in Bonn. It was the standard type of machine that is in
all the stations we visited, and which we used frequently for looking up
schedules. So your problem couldn't have been a general MasterCard
problem.
--
Jon Bell <[email protected]> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA
Aug 9th 2004, 11:00 pm
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German and French rail ticket machines
(Don) wrote
>semiretired wrote
>>OCEANRADIO) wrote
>>>Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the
>>>German and French rail ticket machines?
>>Try to get an up-to-date card with a chip on it.
>>That should work
>I agree, many machines in France are dealing with debit cards
>that have a chip in them, aka a Smart Card. If your bank in the
>US offers one, then get it and save yourself some worries about
>carrying cash. Don
I would say that a chip credit card is a good idea for anybody
visiting Europe in the next few years.
Britain has started the process of issuing ONLY chip cards, and when
that is complete then purchases will need to be made using a PIN
number. In the meantime signatures still work OK.
Is there a US bank which issues Chip cards which are easily obtained?
- somebody like Amex possibly?
>semiretired wrote
>>OCEANRADIO) wrote
>>>Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the
>>>German and French rail ticket machines?
>>Try to get an up-to-date card with a chip on it.
>>That should work
>I agree, many machines in France are dealing with debit cards
>that have a chip in them, aka a Smart Card. If your bank in the
>US offers one, then get it and save yourself some worries about
>carrying cash. Don
I would say that a chip credit card is a good idea for anybody
visiting Europe in the next few years.
Britain has started the process of issuing ONLY chip cards, and when
that is complete then purchases will need to be made using a PIN
number. In the meantime signatures still work OK.
Is there a US bank which issues Chip cards which are easily obtained?
- somebody like Amex possibly?
Aug 9th 2004, 11:12 pm
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German and French rail ticket machines
On 10 Aug 2004 04:00:36 -0700, [email protected]
([email protected]) wrote:
>(Don) wrote
>>semiretired wrote
>>>OCEANRADIO) wrote
>>>>Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the
>>>>German and French rail ticket machines?
>>>Try to get an up-to-date card with a chip on it.
>>>That should work
>>I agree, many machines in France are dealing with debit cards
>>that have a chip in them, aka a Smart Card. If your bank in the
>>US offers one, then get it and save yourself some worries about
>>carrying cash. Don
>I would say that a chip credit card is a good idea for anybody
>visiting Europe in the next few years.
>Britain has started the process of issuing ONLY chip cards, and when
>that is complete then purchases will need to be made using a PIN
>number. In the meantime signatures still work OK.
In the meantime European banks are looking for a more secure system
than the decades old much abused PIN. :-)
([email protected]) wrote:
>(Don) wrote
>>semiretired wrote
>>>OCEANRADIO) wrote
>>>>Does any of this explain why my U.S. MasterCard wont work in the
>>>>German and French rail ticket machines?
>>>Try to get an up-to-date card with a chip on it.
>>>That should work
>>I agree, many machines in France are dealing with debit cards
>>that have a chip in them, aka a Smart Card. If your bank in the
>>US offers one, then get it and save yourself some worries about
>>carrying cash. Don
>I would say that a chip credit card is a good idea for anybody
>visiting Europe in the next few years.
>Britain has started the process of issuing ONLY chip cards, and when
>that is complete then purchases will need to be made using a PIN
>number. In the meantime signatures still work OK.
In the meantime European banks are looking for a more secure system
than the decades old much abused PIN. :-)
