didier Meurgues

didier Meurgues a �crit :

    > poldy a �crit :
    > > In article <[email protected]. com>,
    > > "didier Meurgues" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Just a last... word... :
    > > > In fact, the best way to check the collection is with the "recherche
    > > > multicrit�re" and by choice of type of piece (oeuvre) :
    > > > "paintings" or "sculptures+3D objects+objects" or "objects of design"
    > > > or "prints (estampes)+drawings(dessins)", etc...
    > > >
    > > > Duffy, Chagall, Giacometti, Lipchitz, Gonzalez, Pevsner, Picabia,
    > > > Laurens, Soutines, Dubuffet, Alechinsky (1), Hantai (1), Marquet,
    > > > Derain, Masson, Duchamp, Breton or Fautrier, for ex. are particularly
    > > > well represented as well, which is of course normal for the french
    > > > ones. (Sorry, I could not resist to complete !)...
    > > > Many have average representation : Van Dongen, Magritte, Lempicka,
    > > > Matta, Lam, Dali, Bacon, Jawlenski, Tanguy, Beckman, Baselitz, Richter,
    > > > etc..., etc... or for the US, Pollock, Warhol, Oldenburg, Francis,
    > > > Newman, etc...
    > > > (1) great artists injustly unknown... abroad ! See their pieces...
    > >
    > > It's a nice presentation and looks fairly comprehensive.
    > The multiple choice possibilities notably by date or country added to
    > the type of piece or artist is particularly usefull.
    > > Wonder if they still sell those expensive CD-ROMs with similar content?
    > No idea.
    > > Looks like the Louvre has also put a lot of images online.
    > http://www.louvre.fr/llv/oeuvres/bdd...bmLocale=fr_FR
    > at least for the pieces exposed
    > Orsay hasn't put its collection online so you still need to go to
    > http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documenta...de/fr/pres.htm
For the "mus�e d'orsay" the Joconde database gives only 3725 pieces
and 1669 with images, including 2187 paintings and 1321 with images (to
choose the type of pieces in the "recherche multicrit�re", you need to
choose "Domaine" with the lift in the white case, then "Peinture",
"sculpture", etc...

or
    > http://www.photo.rmn.fr
    > and limit the results to Orsay museum

The RMN database gives only images but is more complete for the mus�e
d'orsay : 30537 images, including 3310 for paintings (choose in
"fonds"), 3027 for sculptures, 6259 for drawings, etc....

    > > So Pompidou may follow what the Louvre did, which is to prohibit
    > > picture-taking, which is a shame because part of the appeal is how
    > > they're presented and the architectural complement to the pieces.
    > The prohibition of images in the online collection of the national
    > museum of modern art comes in fact from the copyrights owners like the
    > Braque (French) or Man Ray (US) families (reproduction non autoris�e)
    > not from the museum itself. The museum has to buy these rights. That's
    > why some images are indicated in course of negociation (en attente
    > d'autorisation). Those with "pas d'image" are free of copyright but the
    > museum has simply not yet put the photographies online. The Louvre has
    > not this problem since the heirs of the copyrights of pieces created
    > before 1848 are, like their creators, dead since a long time... :+)
    >
    > didier Meurgues

Poldy

In article <[email protected]. com>,
"didier Meurgues" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > The budgets of the 14 Paris municipal museums come only from the city
    > of Paris budget, voted and spent independently from the State, and
    > which not only includes local property taxes (in part or totality ?) or
    > (in minority) some automatic state "dotations" (for "fonctionnement"
    > notably) like in every french communes. In France, income and VAT are
    > not local but, yes, state taxes.

My sense was that the state was financing some of the things in Paris,
in particular the big monuments or Grands Travaux.

No doubt the city collects a lot from tourism through hotel taxes too.

Poldy

In article <[email protected] .com>,
"didier Meurgues" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > So Pompidou may follow what the Louvre did, which is to prohibit
    > > picture-taking, which is a shame because part of the appeal is how
    > > they're presented and the architectural complement to the pieces.
    >
    > The prohibition of images in the online collection of the national
    > museum of modern art comes in fact from the copyrights owners like the
    > Braque (French) or Man Ray (US) families (reproduction non autoris�e)
    > not from the museum itself. The museum has to buy these rights. That's
    > why some images are indicated in course of negociation (en attente
    > d'autorisation). Those with "pas d'image" are free of copyright but the
    > museum has simply not yet put the photographies online. The Louvre has
    > not this problem since the heirs of the copyrights of pieces created
    > before 1848 are, like their creators, dead since a long time... :+)

But a few years ago, Louvre didn't have any prohibitions on
picture-taking and now it does, especially certain parts like the
painting galleries.

Maybe once they get all the images online, they will simply prohibit
cameras for the whole museum, like some Italian museums have done.

Magda

On 25 Sep 2006 07:57:55 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "didier Meurgues"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... The permanent collections of the 14 museums of the city of Paris are
... free of charge except the mus�e Galliera (fashion collection of the
... city of Paris open for temporary exhibitions only) and the Catacombes,
... if I remember well...

But the Catacombes are so cheap... For years the entrance fee was 8 FF. I haven't been
there in ages, but I believe it's about 2 Euro now.

didier Meurgues

poldy a �crit :

    > In article <[email protected] .com>,
    > "didier Meurgues" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > So Pompidou may follow what the Louvre did, which is to prohibit
    > > > picture-taking, which is a shame because part of the appeal is how
    > > > they're presented and the architectural complement to the pieces.
    > >
    > > The prohibition of images in the online collection of the national
    > > museum of modern art comes in fact from the copyrights owners like the
    > > Braque (French) or Man Ray (US) families (reproduction non autoris�e)
    > > not from the museum itself. The museum has to buy these rights. That's
    > > why some images are indicated in course of negociation (en attente
    > > d'autorisation). Those with "pas d'image" are free of copyright but the
    > > museum has simply not yet put the photographies online. The Louvre has
    > > not this problem since the heirs of the copyrights of pieces created
    > > before 1848 are, like their creators, dead since a long time... :+)
    > But a few years ago, Louvre didn't have any prohibitions on
    > picture-taking and now it does, especially certain parts like the
    > painting galleries.
    > Maybe once they get all the images online, they will simply prohibit
    > cameras for the whole museum, like some Italian museums have done.

Only the busiest galeries of the Louvre are concerned (Apollo gallery
and italian in the � galerie du bord de l'eau � + spanish + french
grand formats paintings) because of the increase of visitors (7.5
millions) and the complaints of the other visitors about "blocked
views"... , according to the louvre (in front of Mona Lisa, at least) :


http://www.louvre.fr/llv/musee/etude...=1159870828496

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/pratique/pr...02&bmLocale=en
    :

� in the most crowded areas of the museum, namely the Galerie
d'Apollon and all of the first-floor rooms in the Denon wing (Italian,
Spanish, and French paintings).
With the growing success of the Grand Louvre project, marked by a sharp
increase in annual attendance, the museum decided that the implemention
of a partial restriction of photography and filming was needed. The
restriction affects only the most crowded areas of the museum, where
blocked views are most frustrating to the visiting public. �

I've not heard and I don't think that this policy will be extended
elswhere, since no other places in french museums are crowded that way
(except perhaps the � galerie des hauteurs � (impressionists) of
Orsay museum and.... apparently ? the Uffizi in Firenze. :+)

didier Meurgues

Markku Gr�nroos

"poldy" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestiss�:[email protected]...
    > But a few years ago, Louvre didn't have any prohibitions on
    > picture-taking and now it does, especially certain parts like the
    > painting galleries.
That's right. Took Mona Lisa just walked out.

Markku Gr�nroos

"poldy" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestiss�:[email protected]...
    > But a few years ago, Louvre didn't have any prohibitions on
    > picture-taking and now it does, especially certain parts like the
    > painting galleries.
That's right. I took Mona Lisa and just walked out. It is different now.

didier Meurgues

poldy a �crit :

    > In article <[email protected]. com>,
    > "didier Meurgues" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > The budgets of the 14 Paris municipal museums come only from the city
    > > of Paris budget, voted and spent independently from the State, and
    > > which not only includes local property taxes (in part or totality ?) or
    > > (in minority) some automatic state "dotations" (for "fonctionnement"
    > > notably) like in every french communes. In France, income and VAT are
    > > not local but, yes, state taxes.
    > My sense was that the state was financing some of the things in Paris,
    > in particular the big monuments or Grands Travaux.
    > No doubt the city collects a lot from tourism through hotel taxes too.

The city of Paris finances its own museums (14), churches (about 50 are
pre-1800 including 4 protestant and about 100 of the XIXth century
including at least the 2 great synagogues), city halls (21 in Paris),
several hospitals (including historical ones like St Louis, Port
Royal...), or... the Sorbonne, etc..., but normally not with the hotel
taxe or "taxe de s�jour" used to compensate touristic costs (garbages
collect, equipements...) and comprised between 0.2 and 1.5 � maximum
a night according to art. L. 2333-30 (legislative part) and R. 2333-45
of the Code g�n�ral des collectivit�s territoriales (CGCT, search in
    : http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/ListeCodes), which I already
explained in a Google travel europe post (make a search with "meurgues
taxe sejour, forfaitairement", etc...

While, like on the quasi totality of the surface of the Earth, the
state finances the maintenance and refurbishment of its own properties,
including the construction of new cultural ones, for ex. when they are
needed to receive national collections for a better presentation (for
ex. in Paris : Orsay, Picasso, Branly museums).
When a french cultural institution (depending of the ministery of
culture : mainly museums), is concerned, its creation (former � grands
travaux �) or refurbishment is managed by a special governmental body
called EMOC : http://www.emoc.fr . As well, the use of mecenat is
growing, above all thanks to the 2002 law wich allowed considerably
higher tax deductions (recent restorations of the Apollo galery of the
Louvre and mirors galery of Versailles (Vinci) for ex.).
In Paris, state properties are mainly, administrative and governmental,
sometimes situated in buildings as well protected as historical
monuments : Elys�e (president), Luxembourg (Senate) or Bourbon
(Assembly) palaces, Hotel Matignon (1me minister), more than 10
ministeries in former aristocratic mansions, justice palace, Conseil
d'Etat, several institutions like the academies, com�die fran�aise,
national archives, national library, mint, legion of honour, opera,
some schools like the �cole des mines, or hospitals like the val de
grace, etc..., to which must be added 15 official � national museums
� plus about 10 � unofficial � ones (natural history, science (3),
army, marine...), 6 � Monuments � (taken litteraly) : Arc de
triomphe, Pantheon, including 3 churches : ND cathedral, and, with only
exceptional services, the Sainte Chapelle and the Chapelle Expiatoire
(see the list of the Paris state � Monuments � at :
http://www.monum.fr by choosing � visit the monuments �, then �
discover �, then clic on Paris map). The rest, if not municipal, is
owned by administrative or commercial � �tablissements publics �,
foreign states, churches, associations and of course privately owned by
companies or persons, etc... and financed accordingly.

If you want to learn the status and the public subsidies (mainly state
but not only) to protect particularly the french � historical
monuments � (%age depending of their heritage value), including the
municipal, architecturaly interesting, and consequently listed
churches, synagogues, great mosk or buddhist temple of Paris, etc...
and the state monuments or properties which, on the other hand, don't
need to be helped notably by other public collectivities, see my former
posts by making a search on Google travel europe with :
� 1905 trinit� solesmes � and � meurgues secteurs sauvegard�s
historiques �

didier Meurgues

didier Meurgues

Magda a �crit :

    > On 25 Sep 2006 07:57:55 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "didier Meurgues"
    > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
    > ...
    > ... The permanent collections of the 14 museums of the city of Paris are
    > ... free of charge except the mus�e Galliera (fashion collection of the
    > ... city of Paris open for temporary exhibitions only) and the Catacombes,
    > ... if I remember well...
    > But the Catacombes are so cheap... For years the entrance fee was 8 FF. I haven't been
    > there in ages, but I believe it's about 2 Euro now.

It's a little... bit more expensive now... :+)
But a new, tortuous, dark and quite long... quarry galery has been
added, wich precedes now the Catacumbs themselves : before the door
bearing the moto : � stop mortal : here begins the kindom of death �
! Brrrr...

http://www.paris.fr/portail/Culture/...rtlet_id=14628

Tarifs d'entr�e

Visiteurs individuels
Plein tarif : 7 �
Tarif r�duit : 5,50 �
Tarif jeune : 3,50 �

Here is as well, for those interested, the program of the � Nuit
Blanche � in Paris (October 7, this year) :

http://www.nb2006.paris.fr

didier Meurgues

Magda

On 3 Oct 2006 04:13:50 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "didier Meurgues"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... Magda a �crit :
... >
... > But the Catacombes are so cheap... For years the entrance fee was 8 FF. I haven't been
... > there in ages, but I believe it's about 2 Euro now.
...
... It's a little... bit more expensive now... :+)
... But a new, tortuous, dark and quite long... quarry galery has been
... added, wich precedes now the Catacumbs themselves : before the door
... bearing the moto : � stop mortal : here begins the kindom of death �
... ! Brrrr...

I haven't been there in a loooooong time indeed - I thought it was "Lasciate, o voi che
entrate, ogni speranza"... Maybe it's in another catacomb!

... http://www.paris.fr/portail/Culture/...rtlet_id=14628
...
... Tarifs d'entr�e
...
... Visiteurs individuels
... Plein tarif : 7 �
... Tarif r�duit : 5,50 �
... Tarif jeune : 3,50 �
...
... Here is as well, for those interested, the program of the � Nuit
... Blanche � in Paris (October 7, this year) :
...
... http://www.nb2006.paris.fr
...
... didier Meurgues

didier Meurgues

Markku Gr�nroos a �crit :

    > "poldy" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
    > viestiss�:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > But a few years ago, Louvre didn't have any prohibitions on
    > > picture-taking and now it does, especially certain parts like the
    > > painting galleries.
    > >
    > That's right. I took Mona Lisa and just walked out. It is different now.

Are you confirming what I myself witnessed about 8 months ago ? :+)
and that I couldn't dare to generalise further...
I was at the beginning of the archaic greek antiquities galery, level
-1, just on the left of the Denon pyramid entrance, when two about 40
years old and quite sympathetic american woman, who had entered not far
behind me, gently asked me where was the Venue of Milo. I told them :
up the stairs at the end of this gallery then cross the great staircase
hall straight away to the left and you'll see it at once, in the
perspective of the classical greek galery. I had just reached the
staircase of the arcaic gallery, previously used dozens of times,
when... I incredulously saw them come back, less than 10 minutes later,
and... get out of the museum !! :+)

didier Meurgues

Markku Gr�nroos

"didier Meurgues" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestiss�:[email protected] glegroups.com...

I was at the beginning of the archaic greek antiquities galery, level
-1, just on the left of the Denon pyramid entrance, when two about 40
years old and quite sympathetic american woman, who had entered not far
behind me, gently asked me where was the Venue of Milo. I told them :
up the stairs at the end of this gallery then cross the great staircase
hall straight away to the left and you'll see it at once, in the
perspective of the classical greek galery. I had just reached the
staircase of the arcaic gallery, previously used dozens of times,
when... I incredulously saw them come back, less than 10 minutes later,
and... get out of the museum !! :+)

I guess they spent 5 minutes at the gates of Versailles and then turned
around on their heels to catch the next train back to town.

didier Meurgues

Magda a �crit :

    > On 3 Oct 2006 04:13:50 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "didier Meurgues"
    > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
    > ... Magda a �crit :
    > ... >
    > ... > But the Catacombes are so cheap... For years the entrance fee was 8 FF. I haven't been
    > ... > there in ages, but I believe it's about 2 Euro now.
    > ...
    > ... It's a little... bit more expensive now... :+)
    > ... But a new, tortuous, dark and quite long... quarry galery has been
    > ... added, wich precedes now the Catacumbs themselves : before the door
    > ... bearing the moto : � stop mortal : here begins the kindom of death �
    > ... ! Brrrr...
    > I haven't been there in a loooooong time indeed - I thought it was "Lasciate, o voi che
    > entrate, ogni speranza"... Maybe it's in another catacomb!

Yes, perhaps the ones of san sebastaino or Calisto, etc.. in Roma or
those of Napoli, since I don't "think" it's this moto at the entrance
of the Paris ones, at least in italian. :+) But perhaps was I enough
impressed to loose my senses and did I forgot it.

    > ... http://www.paris.fr/portail/Culture/...rtlet_id=14628
    > ...
    > ... Tarifs d'entr�e
    > ...
    > ... Visiteurs individuels
    > ... Plein tarif : 7 �
    > ... Tarif r�duit : 5,50 �
    > ... Tarif jeune : 3,50 �
    > ...
    > ... Here is as well, for those interested, the program of the � Nuit
    > ... Blanche � in Paris (October 7, this year) :
    > ...
    > ... http://www.nb2006.paris.fr
    > ...
    > ... didier Meurgues

Poldy

In article <[email protected]. com>,
"didier Meurgues" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've not heard and I don't think that this policy will be extended
> elswhere, since no other places in french museums are crowded that way
> (except perhaps the « galerie des hauteurs » (impressionists) of
> Orsay museum and.... apparently ? the Uffizi in Firenze. :+)

The Accademia too.