Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
Aug 24th 2003, 9:33 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
"Where Are Da White Women At?" <My Whitey Woman Left me for the Chef
@South Park.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> Thank god , if Hope lived in London, he would have had to wait in
line
> behind street bums in the Socialized Medicine ward whenever he
became ill,
> and likely would have died in his 60's.
At least it would have stopped him repeating his jokes.
@South Park.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> Thank god , if Hope lived in London, he would have had to wait in
line
> behind street bums in the Socialized Medicine ward whenever he
became ill,
> and likely would have died in his 60's.
At least it would have stopped him repeating his jokes.
Aug 24th 2003, 4:23 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
"Orange" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Out of interest what kind of medical treatment do the millions of people
who
> can't afford health insurance in the USA get?
Sometimes a damm sight better than those with health insurance. You see
there is this little thing called Medcaid, that is administered by the
states, and recieves both state and Federal fuunding. Those who are on
Medicaid, are those who live below what is defined as the poverty line. the
medical care they recieve is paid for, in most, if not all cases, 100% There
are those that can recieve organ transplants for free, and have their
immunosuppressive medications, which they must take for a lifetime, for
free. While I have health insurance, I still have to pay out money in the
form of "co-pays". Yes, it is far, far less than paying full fees, or even
20% under the old insurance ways, but the fact that someone like myself, who
works his ass of, has to pay for his health care (taken out of my paycheck
every week, thank you.), and someone who is indigent, has no job, can get
free health care.
--
David Spiro
Liver Transplant recipient - 8/1/97
RECYCLE YOURSELF! BE AN ORGAN DOOR! -
"Religion is a defense against the experience of God."
Carl Jung
news:[email protected]...
> Out of interest what kind of medical treatment do the millions of people
who
> can't afford health insurance in the USA get?
Sometimes a damm sight better than those with health insurance. You see
there is this little thing called Medcaid, that is administered by the
states, and recieves both state and Federal fuunding. Those who are on
Medicaid, are those who live below what is defined as the poverty line. the
medical care they recieve is paid for, in most, if not all cases, 100% There
are those that can recieve organ transplants for free, and have their
immunosuppressive medications, which they must take for a lifetime, for
free. While I have health insurance, I still have to pay out money in the
form of "co-pays". Yes, it is far, far less than paying full fees, or even
20% under the old insurance ways, but the fact that someone like myself, who
works his ass of, has to pay for his health care (taken out of my paycheck
every week, thank you.), and someone who is indigent, has no job, can get
free health care.
--
David Spiro
Liver Transplant recipient - 8/1/97
RECYCLE YOURSELF! BE AN ORGAN DOOR! -
"Religion is a defense against the experience of God."
Carl Jung
Aug 24th 2003, 9:11 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
David Spiro wrote:
> "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Out of interest what kind of medical treatment do the millions of people
>
> who
>
>>can't afford health insurance in the USA get?
>
>
> Sometimes a damm sight better than those with health insurance. You see
> there is this little thing called Medcaid, that is administered by the
> states, and recieves both state and Federal fuunding. Those who are on
> Medicaid, are those who live below what is defined as the poverty line. the
> medical care they recieve is paid for, in most, if not all cases, 100% There
> are those that can recieve organ transplants for free, and have their
> immunosuppressive medications, which they must take for a lifetime, for
> free. While I have health insurance, I still have to pay out money in the
> form of "co-pays". Yes, it is far, far less than paying full fees, or even
> 20% under the old insurance ways, but the fact that someone like myself, who
> works his ass of, has to pay for his health care (taken out of my paycheck
> every week, thank you.), and someone who is indigent, has no job, can get
> free health care.
>
So basically, you get shafted?
Sounds like a shit way to run a health service.
> "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Out of interest what kind of medical treatment do the millions of people
>
> who
>
>>can't afford health insurance in the USA get?
>
>
> Sometimes a damm sight better than those with health insurance. You see
> there is this little thing called Medcaid, that is administered by the
> states, and recieves both state and Federal fuunding. Those who are on
> Medicaid, are those who live below what is defined as the poverty line. the
> medical care they recieve is paid for, in most, if not all cases, 100% There
> are those that can recieve organ transplants for free, and have their
> immunosuppressive medications, which they must take for a lifetime, for
> free. While I have health insurance, I still have to pay out money in the
> form of "co-pays". Yes, it is far, far less than paying full fees, or even
> 20% under the old insurance ways, but the fact that someone like myself, who
> works his ass of, has to pay for his health care (taken out of my paycheck
> every week, thank you.), and someone who is indigent, has no job, can get
> free health care.
>
So basically, you get shafted?
Sounds like a shit way to run a health service.
Aug 24th 2003, 9:17 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
In article <[email protected]>, David Spiro
<[email protected]> writes
>Those who are on
>Medicaid, are those who live below what is defined as the poverty line.
But what about those not officially below the poverty line, who still
cannot afford treatment, for example, those who have lost their job and
its health insurance.
One of my American friends was always telling me how those who could not
afford insurance were fine - until her husband lost his job and
insurance. She changed her mind. Among other things, she forbade her
daughter to take part in any dangerous activities like horse riding and
skating, because of possible long term medical problems.
I do not believe that everyone in the USA gets all the medical treatment
they need (and who is to define need?) when they cannot afford to pay
for it.
--
Marie Lewis
<[email protected]> writes
>Those who are on
>Medicaid, are those who live below what is defined as the poverty line.
But what about those not officially below the poverty line, who still
cannot afford treatment, for example, those who have lost their job and
its health insurance.
One of my American friends was always telling me how those who could not
afford insurance were fine - until her husband lost his job and
insurance. She changed her mind. Among other things, she forbade her
daughter to take part in any dangerous activities like horse riding and
skating, because of possible long term medical problems.
I do not believe that everyone in the USA gets all the medical treatment
they need (and who is to define need?) when they cannot afford to pay
for it.
--
Marie Lewis
Aug 25th 2003, 1:24 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
"sparkup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So basically, you get shafted?
> Sounds like a shit way to run a health service.
In certain ways, yes. I was in health care here for 22 years, and have seen
it from many sides, as a paramedic, hospital department head, and patient.
Yes, I have been fortunate. When I received my transplant in 1997, the
entire cost was picked up by my health insurance, sans the cost of my
immunosuppression medications that I pay a co-pay for. I pay a small
amount, $15.00 a month for each of two immunosuppression meds, plus smaller
amounts for three other medications. If I paid full price for these
immunosuppression meds, I'd be paying over $800 a month for each of them.
Now on the plus side, I don't have to endure "waiting lists" as is so often
seen in most socialistic helath systems, such as in France, U.K., Canada,
etc. I have friends in Canada, who have been diagnosed as needing organ
transplants, and are going through hell with the waiting list system there
in terms of getting to see the proper specialists for their condition. I
never encountered that. I make my appointments, and within a week, I go,
unless it is something urgent, in which case I get to see my doctors, and
have my tests run immediately. I also have a wide array of choice when it
comes to doctors, as to who I want taking care of me.
My complaints here in the U.S., is in the disparity of policies. While so
many of the poor can qualify for what is literally free medical care, so
many others, who also have financial difficulties, cannot qualify. They may
not live below the poverty line as defined bythe government, but it doesn't
mean they don't need help to pay for their medical care, at least up until
the time that they can get private insurance.
What has really screwed the system up here was the introduction in the
1980's of Health Maintenance Organizations (HMO's). Far too many of them are
not true HMO's, but insurance companies disguised as one. A true HMO
(Kaiser-Permanente out on the west coast is one example) is a true HMO. They
own the hospitals, clinics, and other facilities that their patients go to.
Insurance companies simply contract with certain hospitals, an apply
incredibly restrictive rules on the doctors who are part of them, as well as
restrictive reimbursement policies. People used ot complain about how much
money doectors made in the past, but quite frankly, this is in part what
spurred them on to be the best at what they do. I would have gladly seen my
transplant surgeon get twice what she was paid for my operation. The woman
saved my life just as much as my donor did.
In the end,there is no thing as a perfect health care system. France is
certainly proving that right now. We here have a long way to go in improving
our system, but I will take it over certain other systems I have learned
about. we won't even discuss Russian health care...........
--
David Spiro
Liver Transplant recipient - 8/1/97
RECYCLE YOURSELF! BE AN ORGAN DOOR! -
"Religion is a defense against the experience of God."
Carl Jung
news:[email protected]...
> So basically, you get shafted?
> Sounds like a shit way to run a health service.
In certain ways, yes. I was in health care here for 22 years, and have seen
it from many sides, as a paramedic, hospital department head, and patient.
Yes, I have been fortunate. When I received my transplant in 1997, the
entire cost was picked up by my health insurance, sans the cost of my
immunosuppression medications that I pay a co-pay for. I pay a small
amount, $15.00 a month for each of two immunosuppression meds, plus smaller
amounts for three other medications. If I paid full price for these
immunosuppression meds, I'd be paying over $800 a month for each of them.
Now on the plus side, I don't have to endure "waiting lists" as is so often
seen in most socialistic helath systems, such as in France, U.K., Canada,
etc. I have friends in Canada, who have been diagnosed as needing organ
transplants, and are going through hell with the waiting list system there
in terms of getting to see the proper specialists for their condition. I
never encountered that. I make my appointments, and within a week, I go,
unless it is something urgent, in which case I get to see my doctors, and
have my tests run immediately. I also have a wide array of choice when it
comes to doctors, as to who I want taking care of me.
My complaints here in the U.S., is in the disparity of policies. While so
many of the poor can qualify for what is literally free medical care, so
many others, who also have financial difficulties, cannot qualify. They may
not live below the poverty line as defined bythe government, but it doesn't
mean they don't need help to pay for their medical care, at least up until
the time that they can get private insurance.
What has really screwed the system up here was the introduction in the
1980's of Health Maintenance Organizations (HMO's). Far too many of them are
not true HMO's, but insurance companies disguised as one. A true HMO
(Kaiser-Permanente out on the west coast is one example) is a true HMO. They
own the hospitals, clinics, and other facilities that their patients go to.
Insurance companies simply contract with certain hospitals, an apply
incredibly restrictive rules on the doctors who are part of them, as well as
restrictive reimbursement policies. People used ot complain about how much
money doectors made in the past, but quite frankly, this is in part what
spurred them on to be the best at what they do. I would have gladly seen my
transplant surgeon get twice what she was paid for my operation. The woman
saved my life just as much as my donor did.
In the end,there is no thing as a perfect health care system. France is
certainly proving that right now. We here have a long way to go in improving
our system, but I will take it over certain other systems I have learned
about. we won't even discuss Russian health care...........
--
David Spiro
Liver Transplant recipient - 8/1/97
RECYCLE YOURSELF! BE AN ORGAN DOOR! -
"Religion is a defense against the experience of God."
Carl Jung
Aug 25th 2003, 3:45 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
In article <[email protected]>, David Spiro
<[email protected]> writes
>Now on the plus side, I don't have to endure "waiting lists" as is so often
>seen in most socialistic helath systems, such as in France, U.K., Canada,
There are no waiting lists in France, which, according to the WHO, has
the best health service in the world.
--
Marie Lewis
<[email protected]> writes
>Now on the plus side, I don't have to endure "waiting lists" as is so often
>seen in most socialistic helath systems, such as in France, U.K., Canada,
There are no waiting lists in France, which, according to the WHO, has
the best health service in the world.
--
Marie Lewis
Aug 25th 2003, 3:59 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
[email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> Iraq.
Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
Bjorn
> Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> Iraq.
Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
Bjorn
Aug 25th 2003, 4:23 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
In article <[email protected]>,
Marie Lewis <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, David Spiro
> <[email protected]> writes
> >Those who are on
> >Medicaid, are those who live below what is defined as the poverty line.
>
>
> But what about those not officially below the poverty line, who still
> cannot afford treatment, for example, those who have lost their job and
> its health insurance.
>
> One of my American friends was always telling me how those who could not
> afford insurance were fine - until her husband lost his job and
> insurance. She changed her mind. Among other things, she forbade her
> daughter to take part in any dangerous activities like horse riding and
> skating, because of possible long term medical problems.
>
> I do not believe that everyone in the USA gets all the medical treatment
> they need (and who is to define need?) when they cannot afford to pay
> for it.
medicaid is also not available to those 'below the poverty line' -- you
have to be far more destitute than that to qualify most places
Marie Lewis <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, David Spiro
> <[email protected]> writes
> >Those who are on
> >Medicaid, are those who live below what is defined as the poverty line.
>
>
> But what about those not officially below the poverty line, who still
> cannot afford treatment, for example, those who have lost their job and
> its health insurance.
>
> One of my American friends was always telling me how those who could not
> afford insurance were fine - until her husband lost his job and
> insurance. She changed her mind. Among other things, she forbade her
> daughter to take part in any dangerous activities like horse riding and
> skating, because of possible long term medical problems.
>
> I do not believe that everyone in the USA gets all the medical treatment
> they need (and who is to define need?) when they cannot afford to pay
> for it.
medicaid is also not available to those 'below the poverty line' -- you
have to be far more destitute than that to qualify most places
Aug 25th 2003, 4:43 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
"Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> > Iraq.
> Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
> 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
> but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of drugs
and medical equipment for years through sanctions, and then overwhelmed by
the results of 'collateral' damage.
> Bjorn
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> > Iraq.
> Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
> 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
> but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of drugs
and medical equipment for years through sanctions, and then overwhelmed by
the results of 'collateral' damage.
> Bjorn
Aug 25th 2003, 4:58 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
In article <[email protected]>,
"Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> > > Iraq.
> >
> > Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
> > 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
> > but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
>
> Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of drugs
> and medical equipment for years through sanctions,
Another BBC viewer....
jay
Mon, Aug 25, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
and then overwhelmed by
> the results of 'collateral' damage.
>
>
> > Bjorn
>
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
"Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> > > Iraq.
> >
> > Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
> > 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
> > but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
>
> Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of drugs
> and medical equipment for years through sanctions,
Another BBC viewer....
jay
Mon, Aug 25, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
and then overwhelmed by
> the results of 'collateral' damage.
>
>
> > Bjorn
>
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Aug 25th 2003, 5:07 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
"Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > > > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> > > > Iraq.
> > >
> > > Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
> > > 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
> > > but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
> >
> > Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of
drugs
> > and medical equipment for years through sanctions,
> Another BBC viewer....
Well I do switch over to Fox News sometimes when I want a laugh...
> jay
> Mon, Aug 25, 2003
> mailto:[email protected]
> and then overwhelmed by
> > the results of 'collateral' damage.
> >
> >
> > > Bjorn
> >
> >
> --
> Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
> Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > > > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> > > > Iraq.
> > >
> > > Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
> > > 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
> > > but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
> >
> > Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of
drugs
> > and medical equipment for years through sanctions,
> Another BBC viewer....
Well I do switch over to Fox News sometimes when I want a laugh...
> jay
> Mon, Aug 25, 2003
> mailto:[email protected]
> and then overwhelmed by
> > the results of 'collateral' damage.
> >
> >
> > > Bjorn
> >
> >
> --
> Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
> Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Aug 25th 2003, 8:22 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
"sparkup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
(SNIP)
> > There
> > are those that can recieve organ transplants for free, and have their
> > immunosuppressive medications, which they must take for a lifetime, for
> > free. While I have health insurance, I still have to pay out money in
the
> > form of "co-pays". Yes, it is far, far less than paying full fees, or
even
> > 20% under the old insurance ways, but the fact that someone like myself,
who
> > works his ass of, has to pay for his health care (taken out of my
paycheck
> > every week, thank you.), and someone who is indigent, has no job, can
get
> > free health care.
> >
> So basically, you get shafted?
> Sounds like a shit way to run a health service.
It is. It's called cost shifting. That's why, when some indigent person
gets never-to-be-paid-for care at an Emergency Room, everyone else pays for
it in some other form -- higher room rates, $5 aspirins, etc. So the cost
of health insurance goes up, along with co-pays. But the fault isn't
Medicaid, it's the underfunding of it. Medicade doesn't begin to cover the
cost to the hospitals. I guess the Republicans out there would say that
cost shifting is better than higher taxes, but it's not.
A single payer system would help, as would the scrapping of private health
insurance (except as a voluntary supplement.) Other civilized countries
have successful systems, so why can't the US?
Tom
news:[email protected]...
(SNIP)
> > There
> > are those that can recieve organ transplants for free, and have their
> > immunosuppressive medications, which they must take for a lifetime, for
> > free. While I have health insurance, I still have to pay out money in
the
> > form of "co-pays". Yes, it is far, far less than paying full fees, or
even
> > 20% under the old insurance ways, but the fact that someone like myself,
who
> > works his ass of, has to pay for his health care (taken out of my
paycheck
> > every week, thank you.), and someone who is indigent, has no job, can
get
> > free health care.
> >
> So basically, you get shafted?
> Sounds like a shit way to run a health service.
It is. It's called cost shifting. That's why, when some indigent person
gets never-to-be-paid-for care at an Emergency Room, everyone else pays for
it in some other form -- higher room rates, $5 aspirins, etc. So the cost
of health insurance goes up, along with co-pays. But the fault isn't
Medicaid, it's the underfunding of it. Medicade doesn't begin to cover the
cost to the hospitals. I guess the Republicans out there would say that
cost shifting is better than higher taxes, but it's not.
A single payer system would help, as would the scrapping of private health
insurance (except as a voluntary supplement.) Other civilized countries
have successful systems, so why can't the US?
Tom
Aug 25th 2003, 8:26 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
In article <[email protected]>,
"Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > > > > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> > > > > Iraq.
> > > >
> > > > Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
> > > > 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
> > > > but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
> > >
> > > Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of
> drugs
> > > and medical equipment for years through sanctions,
> >
> >
> > Another BBC viewer....
>
> Well I do switch over to Fox News sometimes when I want a laugh...
Iraq hospitals are not lacking because of sanctions -- medical supplies
etc were specifically exempted -- they are lacking because Saddam
Hussein chose to spend his ample funds on other things -- like more
weapons and more palaces and more fancy cars for himself and his
supporters
"Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > > > > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer than in
> > > > > Iraq.
> > > >
> > > > Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad and
> > > > 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more air-conditioners,
> > > > but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
> > >
> > > Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of
> drugs
> > > and medical equipment for years through sanctions,
> >
> >
> > Another BBC viewer....
>
> Well I do switch over to Fox News sometimes when I want a laugh...
Iraq hospitals are not lacking because of sanctions -- medical supplies
etc were specifically exempted -- they are lacking because Saddam
Hussein chose to spend his ample funds on other things -- like more
weapons and more palaces and more fancy cars for himself and his
supporters
Aug 25th 2003, 8:53 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
"Jenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
> > > > news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > > > > > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer
than in
> > > > > > Iraq.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad
and
> > > > > 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more
air-conditioners,
> > > > > but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
> > > >
> > > > Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of
> > drugs
> > > > and medical equipment for years through sanctions,
> > >
> > >
> > > Another BBC viewer....
> >
> > Well I do switch over to Fox News sometimes when I want a laugh...
> Iraq hospitals are not lacking because of sanctions -- medical supplies
> etc were specifically exempted -- they are lacking because Saddam
> Hussein chose to spend his ample funds on other things -- like more
> weapons and more palaces and more fancy cars for himself and his
> supporters
Real effects of UN sanctions on Iraq
Robert Patton ([email protected])
The articles address how the Security Council's unjust sanctions have
affected the citizens of Iraq, claiming that the sanctions themselves have
led to more deaths than the Gulf War in 1991.Child mortality has tripled
since 1990, and despite the deaths of over half a million Iraqi children due
to starvation, which has been reported by the UN's own agencies (FAO,
UNICEF), the US State Department and the UN continue to severely limit
Iraq's ability to sell oil for desperately needed food and medical supplies.
on the conditions in Iraq, "Since 1993 the situation has become much worse
for the majority of the population, beggars and street children are seen
widely, crime has increased and infantile malnutrition can be observed in
both hospitals and the general population." "If this situation is allowed to
continue the result will undoubtedly be even further deterioration in the
nutritional status and health of large sections of the Iraqi population.
There is a strong possibility of an outright collapse of the food and
agricultural economy which would cripple the food ration system and lead to
widespread famine and hunger." The sanctions on Iraq are not aimed at
punishing Saddam Hussein and his police state but are rather used to
suppress any attempt by the Iraqi nation to rebuild its economy and power
and challenge Western influence in the region. Perhaps the worst effect of
the sanctions is that the people of Iraq who might under liveable conditions
attempt to oppose the dictatorship are now forced to simply concentrate on
their own survival because of shortages of food and medical supplies. The
sanctions actually give the police state in Iraq more power to control and
suppress its opposition by rationing supplies and awarding those areas who
support the dictatorship. Any supplies that are not humanitarian in
character are strictly prohibited from being imported into Iraq, including
parts for computers, wheels for tractors, and other industrial products
absolutely necessary for rebuilding Iraq's productive capacity. "The effect
of the sanctions, if not their direct intent, is to maintain the Iraqi
people in a situation of welfare recipients, depending on the good will of
the UN and its masters." These sanctions do little more than deny 20 million
completely innocent Iraqi citizens of their basic human rights, and allow
the dictatorial rule of Saddam Hussein to go unchallenged.
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > "Orange" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > [email protected] (Rainer Wolfcastle) wrote in message
> > > > news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > > > > > Seems like a lot more people are dying in France this summer
than in
> > > > > > Iraq.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not likely. The forecast for this week says 110-112 F in Baghdad
and
> > > > > 70-80 F in Paris. I'm not sure which city has more
air-conditioners,
> > > > > but I do know which has the electricity to run them.
> > > >
> > > > Not to mention fully working hospitals that haven't been starved of
> > drugs
> > > > and medical equipment for years through sanctions,
> > >
> > >
> > > Another BBC viewer....
> >
> > Well I do switch over to Fox News sometimes when I want a laugh...
> Iraq hospitals are not lacking because of sanctions -- medical supplies
> etc were specifically exempted -- they are lacking because Saddam
> Hussein chose to spend his ample funds on other things -- like more
> weapons and more palaces and more fancy cars for himself and his
> supporters
Real effects of UN sanctions on Iraq
Robert Patton ([email protected])
The articles address how the Security Council's unjust sanctions have
affected the citizens of Iraq, claiming that the sanctions themselves have
led to more deaths than the Gulf War in 1991.Child mortality has tripled
since 1990, and despite the deaths of over half a million Iraqi children due
to starvation, which has been reported by the UN's own agencies (FAO,
UNICEF), the US State Department and the UN continue to severely limit
Iraq's ability to sell oil for desperately needed food and medical supplies.
on the conditions in Iraq, "Since 1993 the situation has become much worse
for the majority of the population, beggars and street children are seen
widely, crime has increased and infantile malnutrition can be observed in
both hospitals and the general population." "If this situation is allowed to
continue the result will undoubtedly be even further deterioration in the
nutritional status and health of large sections of the Iraqi population.
There is a strong possibility of an outright collapse of the food and
agricultural economy which would cripple the food ration system and lead to
widespread famine and hunger." The sanctions on Iraq are not aimed at
punishing Saddam Hussein and his police state but are rather used to
suppress any attempt by the Iraqi nation to rebuild its economy and power
and challenge Western influence in the region. Perhaps the worst effect of
the sanctions is that the people of Iraq who might under liveable conditions
attempt to oppose the dictatorship are now forced to simply concentrate on
their own survival because of shortages of food and medical supplies. The
sanctions actually give the police state in Iraq more power to control and
suppress its opposition by rationing supplies and awarding those areas who
support the dictatorship. Any supplies that are not humanitarian in
character are strictly prohibited from being imported into Iraq, including
parts for computers, wheels for tractors, and other industrial products
absolutely necessary for rebuilding Iraq's productive capacity. "The effect
of the sanctions, if not their direct intent, is to maintain the Iraqi
people in a situation of welfare recipients, depending on the good will of
the UN and its masters." These sanctions do little more than deny 20 million
completely innocent Iraqi citizens of their basic human rights, and allow
the dictatorial rule of Saddam Hussein to go unchallenged.
Aug 25th 2003, 12:00 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris & France More Dangerous Than Bagdad & Iraq?
> Iraq hospitals are not lacking because of sanctions -- medical supplies
> etc were specifically exempted -- they are lacking because Saddam
> Hussein chose to spend his ample funds on other things -- like more
> weapons and more palaces and more fancy cars for himself and his
> supporters
Their hospitals have also suffered in the extreme due to a certain
ill-advised war, which meant bombs and looting finished off the damage that
the sanctions caused.
---
DFM
> etc were specifically exempted -- they are lacking because Saddam
> Hussein chose to spend his ample funds on other things -- like more
> weapons and more palaces and more fancy cars for himself and his
> supporters
Their hospitals have also suffered in the extreme due to a certain
ill-advised war, which meant bombs and looting finished off the damage that
the sanctions caused.
---
DFM
