OT: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Jan 23rd 2005, 6:03 am
#61
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Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> Even an American, Miquel, could not distinguish between the News and Fox's
> Commentary programs...
Dont be ridiculous (assuming that "Miquel" is me). Fox deliberately blurs
the line, switching between what they will have to defend as news and what
they can dismiss as commentary from one minute to the next within a single
"show".
> but then he admitted it didn't really ever watch a show in entirety,
I have since had the pleasure, while marooned in a hotel room. My opinion of
the channel was only diminished by the experience.
> As far as their Commentary format, they always have opposing guest that
> are given equal time... what could be wrong with that ?
The opposition guest is either a pathetic human strawman who can't debate
his/her way out of a paper bag, not allowed to speak freely, or both.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
> Even an American, Miquel, could not distinguish between the News and Fox's
> Commentary programs...
Dont be ridiculous (assuming that "Miquel" is me). Fox deliberately blurs
the line, switching between what they will have to defend as news and what
they can dismiss as commentary from one minute to the next within a single
"show".
> but then he admitted it didn't really ever watch a show in entirety,
I have since had the pleasure, while marooned in a hotel room. My opinion of
the channel was only diminished by the experience.
> As far as their Commentary format, they always have opposing guest that
> are given equal time... what could be wrong with that ?
The opposition guest is either a pathetic human strawman who can't debate
his/her way out of a paper bag, not allowed to speak freely, or both.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Jan 23rd 2005, 11:43 am
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
The Reids wrote:
> Following up to Go Fig
>
>
>>The Right to political speech is protected in the U.S., no mater what
>>the content is, as is the Right to rebut that speech. Moreover,
>>reporters are not subject licence granted by the state.
>
>
> you're so funny, Jay. Rather than ponder the crappiness of Fox
> and the damage it might be doing, you spout some old Land of the
> Free and our wonderful constitution and ignore the problem.
Unfortunately, he's not alone! The "Oh, but that can't
happen here" brigade is still alive and well in the US, alas.
> Following up to Go Fig
>
>
>>The Right to political speech is protected in the U.S., no mater what
>>the content is, as is the Right to rebut that speech. Moreover,
>>reporters are not subject licence granted by the state.
>
>
> you're so funny, Jay. Rather than ponder the crappiness of Fox
> and the damage it might be doing, you spout some old Land of the
> Free and our wonderful constitution and ignore the problem.
Unfortunately, he's not alone! The "Oh, but that can't
happen here" brigade is still alive and well in the US, alas.
Jan 23rd 2005, 11:51 am
#63
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Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Mika wrote:
> The Reids <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>
> Fox probably expresses Figgy's views. If we go by his posts here.
Was anyone here ever in any doubt?
> The Reids <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>
> Fox probably expresses Figgy's views. If we go by his posts here.
Was anyone here ever in any doubt?
Jan 23rd 2005, 1:11 pm
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:34:58 +0100, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]> wrote:
<[email protected]>
>That, my friend, is your big mistake. Broadcast media are a product,
>tailored for a market. In the US the brainless bigot market is
>particularly lucrative. Ergo, Fox.
Was it H L Mencken who said "You'll never go broke underestimating the
intelligence of the American people" ?
(change Arabic number to Roman numeral to email)
<[email protected]>
>That, my friend, is your big mistake. Broadcast media are a product,
>tailored for a market. In the US the brainless bigot market is
>particularly lucrative. Ergo, Fox.
Was it H L Mencken who said "You'll never go broke underestimating the
intelligence of the American people" ?
(change Arabic number to Roman numeral to email)
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:06 pm
#65
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Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Following up to Padraig Breathnach
>>I think the ownership and operation of the broadcast media
>>constitutes a real threat to effective democracy in the west.
>>Look at Italy. Look at Fox.
>Look at the Beeb, and the fuss over the reporting of the death of Dr.
>Kelly. In essence, the government got rid of the Chairman and the DG
>over a badly-chosen phrase: "sexed-up",
Yes, a bad affair all round. I thought the report blaming the BBC
was a farce. Especially as history has shown the Blair position
was wrong.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>>I think the ownership and operation of the broadcast media
>>constitutes a real threat to effective democracy in the west.
>>Look at Italy. Look at Fox.
>Look at the Beeb, and the fuss over the reporting of the death of Dr.
>Kelly. In essence, the government got rid of the Chairman and the DG
>over a badly-chosen phrase: "sexed-up",
Yes, a bad affair all round. I thought the report blaming the BBC
was a farce. Especially as history has shown the Blair position
was wrong.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:06 pm
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Following up to nitram
>>Look at the Beeb, and the fuss over the reporting of the death of Dr.
>>Kelly. In essence, the government got rid of the Chairman and the DG
>>over a badly-chosen phrase: "sexed-up",
>In essence it was caused by one reporter and somebody not checking the
>facts.
Was it? Some badly chosen words. The crisis was that Hutton found
against the BBC, when in essence they were right. Newspapers are
much further from the truth every day! Overall, looking at
everything it should be Blair that goes for at the least being
totally naive in believing Bush. I seem to remember we were
supposed to believe Blair was told there were WMDs but didn't ask
what sort.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>>Look at the Beeb, and the fuss over the reporting of the death of Dr.
>>Kelly. In essence, the government got rid of the Chairman and the DG
>>over a badly-chosen phrase: "sexed-up",
>In essence it was caused by one reporter and somebody not checking the
>facts.
Was it? Some badly chosen words. The crisis was that Hutton found
against the BBC, when in essence they were right. Newspapers are
much further from the truth every day! Overall, looking at
everything it should be Blair that goes for at the least being
totally naive in believing Bush. I seem to remember we were
supposed to believe Blair was told there were WMDs but didn't ask
what sort.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:06 pm
#67
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Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Following up to Go Fig
>> I think the ownership and operation of the broadcast media
>> constitutes a real threat to effective democracy in the west.
>> Look at Italy. Look at Fox.
>We know you have never set foot in the U.S., but how many hours of Fox
>News have you watched... careful there may be a quiz....
There was a nice quote from it here a couple of days ago, are you
aware of the thing called the Internet? But thanks for the extra
evidence its a bad thing.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>> I think the ownership and operation of the broadcast media
>> constitutes a real threat to effective democracy in the west.
>> Look at Italy. Look at Fox.
>We know you have never set foot in the U.S., but how many hours of Fox
>News have you watched... careful there may be a quiz....
There was a nice quote from it here a couple of days ago, are you
aware of the thing called the Internet? But thanks for the extra
evidence its a bad thing.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:06 pm
#68
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Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Following up to Go Fig
>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:28 pm
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to Go Fig
>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
scientific matters.
--
Martin
If there is alt.net in the header, the post is a forgery.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to Go Fig
>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
scientific matters.
--
Martin
If there is alt.net in the header, the post is a forgery.
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:31 pm
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
The Reids <[email protected]> wrote:
> Following up to nitram
>
> >>Look at the Beeb, and the fuss over the reporting of the death of Dr.
> >>Kelly. In essence, the government got rid of the Chairman and the DG
> >>over a badly-chosen phrase: "sexed-up",
> >
> >In essence it was caused by one reporter and somebody not checking the
> >facts.
>
> Was it? Some badly chosen words. The crisis was that Hutton found
> against the BBC, when in essence they were right. Newspapers are
> much further from the truth every day! Overall, looking at
> everything it should be Blair that goes for at the least being
> totally naive in believing Bush. I seem to remember we were
> supposed to believe Blair was told there were WMDs but didn't ask
> what sort.
I recently re-read the original transcripts of Gilligan's comments on
R4. Most of what he said was absolutely correct.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> Following up to nitram
>
> >>Look at the Beeb, and the fuss over the reporting of the death of Dr.
> >>Kelly. In essence, the government got rid of the Chairman and the DG
> >>over a badly-chosen phrase: "sexed-up",
> >
> >In essence it was caused by one reporter and somebody not checking the
> >facts.
>
> Was it? Some badly chosen words. The crisis was that Hutton found
> against the BBC, when in essence they were right. Newspapers are
> much further from the truth every day! Overall, looking at
> everything it should be Blair that goes for at the least being
> totally naive in believing Bush. I seem to remember we were
> supposed to believe Blair was told there were WMDs but didn't ask
> what sort.
I recently re-read the original transcripts of Gilligan's comments on
R4. Most of what he said was absolutely correct.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:32 pm
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>Following up to Go Fig
>>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
>>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
>Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
>Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
>scientific matters.
Being wrong is not the same as lying. I don't believe that they were
intentionally wrong -- not even Gilligan: all he did was sex up his
story with a badly-chosen phrase. But the essence of his story was
probably right.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>Following up to Go Fig
>>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
>>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
>Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
>Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
>scientific matters.
Being wrong is not the same as lying. I don't believe that they were
intentionally wrong -- not even Gilligan: all he did was sex up his
story with a badly-chosen phrase. But the essence of his story was
probably right.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:46 pm
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:32:14 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:
>nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Following up to Go Fig
>>>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
>>>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
>>Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
>>Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
>>scientific matters.
>Being wrong is not the same as lying.
The BBC should not be wrong when reporting factual news.
Much of their political news is manufactured on the Radio 4 Today
program. Often when they are corrected in an interview, they repeat
the same errors all day. I've noticed the BBC TV 6 PM News is
sometimes wrong and contrary to the report on the same subject on the
BBC website.
> I don't believe that they were
>intentionally wrong -- not even Gilligan: all he did was sex up his
>story with a badly-chosen phrase. But the essence of his story was
>probably right.
In detail it was wrong and that's why he was sacked.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Following up to Go Fig
>>>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
>>>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
>>Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
>>Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
>>scientific matters.
>Being wrong is not the same as lying.
The BBC should not be wrong when reporting factual news.
Much of their political news is manufactured on the Radio 4 Today
program. Often when they are corrected in an interview, they repeat
the same errors all day. I've noticed the BBC TV 6 PM News is
sometimes wrong and contrary to the report on the same subject on the
BBC website.
> I don't believe that they were
>intentionally wrong -- not even Gilligan: all he did was sex up his
>story with a badly-chosen phrase. But the essence of his story was
>probably right.
In detail it was wrong and that's why he was sacked.
--
Martin
Jan 23rd 2005, 9:49 pm
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Following up to Go Fig
> >>
> >>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
> >>
> >>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
> >
> >Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
On the topic of innacurate reporting, he wasn't fired- he resigned.
> >Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
> >scientific matters.
>
> Being wrong is not the same as lying.
Inaccuracy in reporting, especially when it pertains to one's 'special'
subject(s) is nothing new. I rarely read or hear reports on the few
things I know a bit about where I feel an entirely accurate picture has
been presented, but that's as much a reflection of the blunt instrument
approach which news often has to take in order to present itself to a
wider audience as anything else.
> I don't believe that they were
> intentionally wrong -- not even Gilligan: all he did was sex up his
> story with a badly-chosen phrase.
That's a nice word play! :)
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Following up to Go Fig
> >>
> >>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
> >>
> >>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
> >
> >Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
On the topic of innacurate reporting, he wasn't fired- he resigned.
> >Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
> >scientific matters.
>
> Being wrong is not the same as lying.
Inaccuracy in reporting, especially when it pertains to one's 'special'
subject(s) is nothing new. I rarely read or hear reports on the few
things I know a bit about where I feel an entirely accurate picture has
been presented, but that's as much a reflection of the blunt instrument
approach which news often has to take in order to present itself to a
wider audience as anything else.
> I don't believe that they were
> intentionally wrong -- not even Gilligan: all he did was sex up his
> story with a badly-chosen phrase.
That's a nice word play! :)
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Jan 23rd 2005, 10:00 pm
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
In article <[email protected]>, Padraig
Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Following up to Go Fig
> >>
> >>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
> >>
> >>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
> >
> >Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
> >
> >Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
> >scientific matters.
>
> Being wrong is not the same as lying. I don't believe that they were
> intentionally wrong -- not even Gilligan: all he did was sex up his
> story with a badly-chosen phrase. But the essence of his story was
> probably right.
A single unsourced official for the "45 min" statement, that was known
not to be factual... but reported anyway....
jay
Mon Jan 24, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:54 +0000, The Reids
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Following up to Go Fig
> >>
> >>>But they haven't been shown to be liars, like the BBC, CBS, NBC and NYT!
> >>
> >>Where were the BBC shown to be lying?
> >
> >Around the time they fired Andrew Gilligan.
> >
> >Much of their reporting is wrong, especially on technical and
> >scientific matters.
>
> Being wrong is not the same as lying. I don't believe that they were
> intentionally wrong -- not even Gilligan: all he did was sex up his
> story with a badly-chosen phrase. But the essence of his story was
> probably right.
A single unsourced official for the "45 min" statement, that was known
not to be factual... but reported anyway....
jay
Mon Jan 24, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
Jan 23rd 2005, 10:13 pm
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Last one out of the US turn off the light
Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> A single unsourced official for the "45 min" statement, that was known
> not to be factual... but reported anyway....
You're being very sloppy in your choice of words here. What are you
saying, especially by 'known not to be factual'? If you can be clearer,
then I can perhaps argue with what you're saying. (There is very little
in Gilligan's R4 interview which is incorrect.)
I'd also point out that it was never alleged by the BBC that the source
was anything other than 'single.'
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
[]
> A single unsourced official for the "45 min" statement, that was known
> not to be factual... but reported anyway....
You're being very sloppy in your choice of words here. What are you
saying, especially by 'known not to be factual'? If you can be clearer,
then I can perhaps argue with what you're saying. (There is very little
in Gilligan's R4 interview which is incorrect.)
I'd also point out that it was never alleged by the BBC that the source
was anything other than 'single.'
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
