Olivers

Donna Evleth extrapolated from data available...

    >
    >
    >
    > Dans l'article <[email protected]>, Olivers
    > <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >
    >
    >> Is it a deterrent? Of course, for not a single person ever executed
    >> has killed again.
    >> TMO
    >
    > "Deterrence" is not quite the right word here. Generally it's called
    > "incapacitation." Deterrence is before the fact, incapacitation after
    > it.
    >
Given the murder rate in most prisons, quite high for a disarmed and
controlled populace, one could hardly argue the theortetical or statistical
conclusion that capital punishment prevents one category of offender from
increasing the numbers and the rate.

TMO

Tim Kroesen

...so you think life in prison (LIFE; which is DENIED the VICTIM in
TOTAL) is more 'just' than the DP... ? I want the value of *my* life
and that of my families (and society) *protected* by the DP.

The fact is that without strong deterrence to the contrary, life is
cheapened to 'just the cost of doing business' to killers...

Tim K

"David Horne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1ghsbme.1w5aobl1mdooyoN%[email protected]...
    > Arwel Parry <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > However the main reason for not executing people is that in far too
many
    > > cases evidence later comes to light that the person convicted didn't
do
    > > it.
    > I don't think there is a consensus on the 'main reason' here. The
reason
    > I don't support the DP is because I think it's barbaric- and I'd think
    > that even if the person being executed clearly committed the crime.
    > David
    > --
    > David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    > usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Pjw

Capitol punishment? Is being elected to Congress a punishment now?

On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 12:56:09 +0000, "Donna Evleth"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Dans l'article <[email protected]>, Olivers
    ><[email protected]> a écrit :
    >> Is it a deterrent? Of course, for not a single person ever executed has
    >> killed again.
    >> TMO
    >"Deterrence" is not quite the right word here. Generally it's called
    >"incapacitation." Deterrence is before the fact, incapacitation after it.
    >Donna Evleth

Tim Kroesen

Hey, the Elveths know all about Prison Murder; they are up to their
white eyebrows as prison newsletter publishers right now!

Olivers, how do you actually conclude that the DP in no disincentive to
further Murder simply stating that jailed murderers kill each other at
an alarmingly high rate??? Sure they do conclude too; they *know*
nothing worse than their present situation of incarceration will occur
no matter what they do... The incontrovertible fact presented to you is
that no executed killer has killed again... the fact is that *if
executed*, no juvenile sex predator would ever prey on children
again... If *executed*, how many politicos or corporate generals would
ever blithely betray the public trust again...?

Ahh, but the punishment should reflect the 'severity' of the crime
you're about to say... and I agree totally! Sexually prey on children
and you get incarcerated and neutered; betray the public trust and get
incarcerated and never hold a position of public trust again; murder and
you forfeit what you have taken; life in prison is still the same "life"
deprived from the victim ... May we assume that *most* victims would
chose to retain their life at the cost of their attackers life; or that
we all are truly Lemmings willing to give away our most precious gift
to anyone that would want to take it? As such the DP *speaks* for
those in society that cannot voice *their* rights; the rights of the
silenced victims!

Tim K

"Olivers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Donna Evleth extrapolated from data available...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Dans l'article <[email protected]>, Olivers
    > > <[email protected]> a écrit :
    > >
    > >
    > >> Is it a deterrent? Of course, for not a single person ever
executed
    > >> has killed again.
    > >>
    > >> TMO
    > >
    > > "Deterrence" is not quite the right word here. Generally it's
called
    > > "incapacitation." Deterrence is before the fact, incapacitation
after
    > > it.
    > >
    > Given the murder rate in most prisons, quite high for a disarmed and
    > controlled populace, one could hardly argue the theortetical or
statistical
    > conclusion that capital punishment prevents one category of offender
from
    > increasing the numbers and the rate.
    > TMO

Olivers

Tim Kroesen extrapolated from data available...

    > Hey, the Elveths know all about Prison Murder; they are up to their
    > white eyebrows as prison newsletter publishers right now!
    >
    > Olivers, how do you actually conclude that the DP in no disincentive to
    > further Murder simply stating that jailed murderers kill each other at
    > an alarmingly high rate??? Sure they do conclude too; they *know*
    > nothing worse than their present situation of incarceration will occur
    > no matter what they do... The incontrovertible fact presented to you is
    > that no executed killer has killed again... the fact is that *if
    > executed*, no juvenile sex predator would ever prey on children
    > again... If *executed*, how many politicos or corporate generals would
    > ever blithely betray the public trust again...?

You don't read very well, do you?

A. I'm the one who oritinally posted that capital punishment certainly
deterred those who, having been executed, never kill again. I'm all for
it, and have some collateral expereience, having served as Foreman of a
Grand Jury returning an indictment for Capital Murder, one of those moments
which brings the issue to within something less than armchair arm's length.

B. My note about prisons and murder rates in prison referred to the high
murder rate among a controlled and weaponless population, and that capital
punishment provides, in theory at least, an absolute "deterrent" to
additional murder in prison by those convicted of capitals crimes. I don't
have any statistics likely to dem,onstrate that imprisoned murderers kill
other prisoners at a greater rate than convicted armed robbers do so.
Prisons and corrections departments proably don't keep or release those
numbers.


TMO

    >
    > Ahh, but the punishment should reflect the 'severity' of the crime
    > you're about to say... and I agree totally! Sexually prey on children
    > and you get incarcerated and neutered; betray the public trust and get
    > incarcerated and never hold a position of public trust again; murder and
    > you forfeit what you have taken; life in prison is still the same "life"
    > deprived from the victim ... May we assume that *most* victims would
    > chose to retain their life at the cost of their attackers life; or that
    > we all are truly Lemmings willing to give away our most precious gift
    > to anyone that would want to take it? As such the DP *speaks* for
    > those in society that cannot voice *their* rights; the rights of the
    > silenced victims!
    >
    > Tim K
    >
    > "Olivers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Donna Evleth extrapolated from data available...
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Dans l'article <[email protected]>, Olivers
    >> > <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >> Is it a deterrent? Of course, for not a single person ever
    > executed
    >> >> has killed again.
    >> >>
    >> >> TMO
    >> >
    >> > "Deterrence" is not quite the right word here. Generally it's
    > called
    >> > "incapacitation." Deterrence is before the fact, incapacitation
    > after
    >> > it.
    >> >
    >> Given the murder rate in most prisons, quite high for a disarmed and
    >> controlled populace, one could hardly argue the theortetical or
    > statistical
    >> conclusion that capital punishment prevents one category of offender
    > from
    >> increasing the numbers and the rate.
    >> TMO
    >
    >