Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>, devil
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:42:07 -0400, jbk wrote:
    >
    > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:23:40 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:58:58 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil
    > >><[email protected]>
    > >>arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > >>
    > >> ... On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:41:25 +0000, Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > >> ...
    > >> ... > Tim Kroesen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> ... >> Secondly, French arrogance is a well documented and world known
    > >> ... >> nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at the
    > >> USA
    > >> ... >> over the same grounds. Should you and yours *ever* use the derisive
    > >> ... >> handle "merkin"
    > >> ... >
    > >> ... > When'd you get so P.C.?
    > >> ...
    > >> ... What about:
    > >> ... "Secondly, American arrogance is a well documented and world known
    > >> ... nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at
    > >> ... France over the same grounds."
    > >> ...
    > >> ... Doesn't it sound about just as good?
    > >> ...
    > >> ... :-)
    > >>
    > >>Perfect !
    > >
    > > Too bad it's complete nonsense and a lie isn't it?
    >
    > What's a lie? American nationalism? French nationalism? American
    > arrogance, french arrogance? Having lived in both countries without being
    > a citizen of either, and having been on the receiving end of all, I can
    > attest to the effect that all are too real. And that French and American
    > arrgoance and nationalism/chauvinism are close cousins.
    >

Without the unmerited seat on the UN SC, France is left to barely
claim, arrogantly, the worlds fine wines... even that is in question
for sometime.

While arrogance is far from an endearing behavior, it becomes laughable
and pathetic when the claims are so unfounded.

jay
Thu Jul 22, 2004
mailto:[email protected]

Devil

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:55:37 -0700, Go Fig wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, devil
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:42:07 -0400, jbk wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:23:40 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
    >> > wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:58:58 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil
    >> >><[email protected]>
    >> >>arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >> >>
    >> >> ... On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:41:25 +0000, Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >> >> ...
    >> >> ... > Tim Kroesen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >> ... >> Secondly, French arrogance is a well documented and world known
    >> >> ... >> nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at the
    >> >> USA
    >> >> ... >> over the same grounds. Should you and yours *ever* use the derisive
    >> >> ... >> handle "merkin"
    >> >> ... >
    >> >> ... > When'd you get so P.C.?
    >> >> ...
    >> >> ... What about:
    >> >> ... "Secondly, American arrogance is a well documented and world known
    >> >> ... nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at
    >> >> ... France over the same grounds."
    >> >> ...
    >> >> ... Doesn't it sound about just as good?
    >> >> ...
    >> >> ... :-)
    >> >>
    >> >>Perfect !
    >> >
    >> > Too bad it's complete nonsense and a lie isn't it?
    >>
    >> What's a lie? American nationalism? French nationalism? American
    >> arrogance, french arrogance? Having lived in both countries without being
    >> a citizen of either, and having been on the receiving end of all, I can
    >> attest to the effect that all are too real. And that French and American
    >> arrgoance and nationalism/chauvinism are close cousins.
    >>
    >
    > Without the unmerited seat on the UN SC, France is left to barely
    > claim, arrogantly, the worlds fine wines... even that is in question
    > for sometime.
    >
    > While arrogance is far from an endearing behavior, it becomes laughable
    > and pathetic when the claims are so unfounded.

Have you ever been at the receiving end of either?

Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>, devil
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:55:37 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>, devil
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:42:07 -0400, jbk wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:23:40 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
    > >> > wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:58:58 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil
    > >> >><[email protected]>
    > >> >>arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > >> >>
    > >> >> ... On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:41:25 +0000, Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > >> >> ...
    > >> >> ... > Tim Kroesen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> >> ... >> Secondly, French arrogance is a well documented and world known
    > >> >> ... >> nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at
    > >> >> the
    > >> >> USA
    > >> >> ... >> over the same grounds. Should you and yours *ever* use the
    > >> >> derisive
    > >> >> ... >> handle "merkin"
    > >> >> ... >
    > >> >> ... > When'd you get so P.C.?
    > >> >> ...
    > >> >> ... What about:
    > >> >> ... "Secondly, American arrogance is a well documented and world
    > >> >> known
    > >> >> ... nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at
    > >> >> ... France over the same grounds."
    > >> >> ...
    > >> >> ... Doesn't it sound about just as good?
    > >> >> ...
    > >> >> ... :-)
    > >> >>
    > >> >>Perfect !
    > >> >
    > >> > Too bad it's complete nonsense and a lie isn't it?
    > >>
    > >> What's a lie? American nationalism? French nationalism? American
    > >> arrogance, french arrogance? Having lived in both countries without being
    > >> a citizen of either, and having been on the receiving end of all, I can
    > >> attest to the effect that all are too real. And that French and American
    > >> arrgoance and nationalism/chauvinism are close cousins.
    > >>
    > >
    > > Without the unmerited seat on the UN SC, France is left to barely
    > > claim, arrogantly, the worlds fine wines... even that is in question
    > > for sometime.
    > >
    > > While arrogance is far from an endearing behavior, it becomes laughable
    > > and pathetic when the claims are so unfounded.
    >
    > Have you ever been at the receiving end of either?

Sure one is; arrogant, rude and ignorant and the other is only the
former two.

jay
Thu Jul 22, 2004
mailto:[email protected]


    >

Tim Challenger

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:06:47 +0200, Luca Logi wrote:

    > Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Are you saying that Italy can issue such a visa for stay in France ?
    >
    > Please note that the question was different. The correct question is:
    > may France prevent you from getting an Italian visa? Yes, they can. If a
    > French officer puts your name on the common database of aliens
    > inelegible for Schengen visas, you are likely to be denied visas from
    > any consulate of Schengen countries.

And of course it's one of the underlying conditions of the Schengen
agreement. As someone else said it's to stop "visa shopping". As a general
rule, once rejected by any country you are on the black list for all of
them. Individual nations may issue visas for their own country only, but
not a Schengen visa. I think they were being a bit optimistic when they
mentioned ALL EU states though.

--
Tim C.

Tim Challenger

On 22 Jul 2004 13:23:59 -0700, Tam wrote:

    > WW-registered van

What's WW-registered?
--
Tim C.

Tim Challenger

    > Â Â Â Â Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
    > United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
    > Â Â Â Â "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
    > Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
    > [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
    > authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
    > French-Canadian by birth.
    > Â Â Â Â Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
    > Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
    > Â Â Â Â As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
    > clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
    > to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
    > Â Â Â Â American tourists and business officials who visit France or the
    > rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.

The big message here is not to engage Mr. Sirois on your behalf if you ever
have any international law problems. It's amazing that a professional
specialist in the subject doesn't even have a basic working knowledge of
the Schengen accord. Hi might be technically right in that there is now
*law*, there is an international agreement. The cretin. Oh sorry, he's a
lawyer. That explains everything.

And what does his being French-Canadian have to do with it?

--
Tim C.

Sufaud

Nils Zonneveld <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > And they would right. A French visum grants you automatically access to
    > all other EU member states who are part of the Schengen treaty. The flip
    > side is, when you are refused a visum in one Schengen country you are
    > refused in all Schengen countries. This is to avoid "visum-shopping" at
    > different Schengen countries.
    >
    > So that would in effect mean that if you are refused a visum in France,
    > you can't get a visum for Italy either.

Well, for the well-heeled or the well-advised person who only was
barred because of insolence and not because he was a danger to public
order, health or safety, there's a workaround. Get a work visa for a
non-Schengen country: say Iceland, Britain, Ireland, Gibraltar,
Norway, Liechtenstein, Switzerland. Then have your employer, an EU/EEA
enterprise (perhaps owned by you) to send you on business or to work
for less than one year on a cross-border projectd in a Schengen
country, and the relevant EU member state must, absent a public
orde4r, health or safety argument, grant consent to such travel and
work.

Poetic Justice

"Loiseau [press attache at the French Embassy in Washington] pointed out
that most American citizens need not apply for visas to visit France and
as such, the warning was directed more at foreign nationals residing in
the United States."

www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/7/27/134531.shtml

Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:40 p.m. EDT
French Defend Consulate Warning

"A visa is a privilege, not a right. We are a sovereign nation,"
explained Natalie Loiseau, press attache at the French Embassy in
Washington, D.C., in a telephone interview Sunday.
Loiseau was reacting to a report first broken by NewsMax on Monday, July
19.
The story revealed that a sign at the entrance to the French consulate
in New York City warned visa applicants to "show due respect" to
consular personnel. If not, the warning claimed, the visa request would
be denied.
It went on to state that a French visa refusal also would be enforced by
most of the European Union nations.
Last Tuesday evening, officials at the French consulate discreetly
removed the controversial signr.
A French-Canadian attorney who works at the United Nations, Andre
Siroix, told NewsMax the French warning was "insulting, arrogant" and
"most probably illegal."
"Do the French have veto rights over other European countries granting
visas? I think not. What would the Germans say?" asked Siroix.
Munir Akram, Pakistan's U.N. ambassador, told NewsMax a French visa
refusal probably would be enforced by several neighboring European
countries that have immigration agreements with Paris.
"It is an effort to prevent someone from sneaking into the country
[France] through the back door," the ambassador explained.
It is unclear who originally posted the warning, and who ordered it
pulled.
It is also unclear whether the removal of the warning meant the policy
was discontinued, or whether it would now be "unofficially" or
"covertly" enforced.
"This is a serious question the French consul general should be made to
answer," explained Siroix in a telephone interview on Tuesday evening.
The warning also has been the subject of "hall talk" in the corridors of
U.N. headquarters, with the French policy receiving almost no support in
an unofficial straw poll.
After several days of attempting to solicit an explanation from French
officials, on Friday the NYC consulate explained that Consul General
Richard Duque "was on vacation." However, NewsMax was told the "request"
for an interview would be forwarded to the "proper officials."
Natalie Loiseau, press attache at the French Embassy in Washington,
explained her government's visa policy: "We are a sovereign nation, just
like the United States, and we can decide who gets a visa and who does
not."
Loiseau pointed out that most American citizens need not apply for visas
to visit France and as such, the warning was directed more at foreign
nationals residing in the United States.
"Just recently we [in Washington] had an incident where a visa applicant
did not like the questions being asked of her and as such punched one of
our consular officials. Others have tried to offer bribes for visas. To
our consular personnel, this is insulting."
"We only ask to be treated professionally, like anyone at the State
Department. You would be surprised how often this is not the case," she
added.
The French press attache also mentioned that the vast majority of visa
requests are honored. "We expect to have more than 16 million visitors
to France this summer."
Loiseau could offer no explanation as to why the warning posted at the
NYC consulate disappeared.
"This is all news to me," she replied.



..And Paradise Was Lost...like teardrops in the rain...

Tim Kroesen

Double Whammy...? <g>

Tim K

"Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
. Oh sorry, he's a
    > lawyer. That explains everything.
    > And what does his being French-Canadian have to do with it?
    > --
    > Tim C.

Tim Challenger

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:13:18 GMT, Tim Kroesen wrote:

    > Double Whammy...? <g>
    >
    > Tim K
    >
    > "Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > . Oh sorry, he's a
    >> lawyer. That explains everything.
    >> And what does his being French-Canadian have to do with it?

Hadn't thought of it quite like that.
French-Canadian and a Lawyer. I wonder if he has any friends?
--
Tim C.