Martin Bienwald

Tam schrieb:

    > The sign has the following significance (by way of explanation, not
    > justification): persons who engage in abusive behaviour towards staff
    > of the French consulate general will be refused visas and will have
    > their names added to the Schengen list of persons who have had visas
    > refused.

Well, what would probably happen if I went to the US consulate general,
dealed out assorted insults to the staff and tried to apply for a visa?

(They don't erect warning signs, however, probably because they rely
on visa applicants' common sense.)

    > French bureaucrats do not always act rationally, diplomatically or in
    > accordance with the reasonable expectations of petitoiners/patrons.

I think you can delete "French" from that sentence. In my experience,
there are always a few bureaucrats who like to show off their "power"
by acting arbitrarily. German bureaucracy certainly has its share of
them, and I seriously doubt that you won't find them in US bureaucracy
as well.

... Martin

Tim Kroesen

Just read the thread where some French *admit* arrogance and the rest of
the world (here) seems to agree. Pointing out yet *more* America
bashing; that's all...

Tim K

"devil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:41:25 +0000, Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > > Tim Kroesen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> Secondly, French arrogance is a well documented and world known
    > >> nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at the
USA
    > >> over the same grounds. Should you and yours *ever* use the
derisive
    > >> handle "merkin"
    > >
    > > When'd you get so P.C.?
    > What about:
    > "Secondly, American arrogance is a well documented and world known
    > nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at
    > France over the same grounds."
    > Doesn't it sound about just as good?
    > :-)

Tim Kroesen

To a Poodle like you Beagle crap is likewise "perfect"...

Tim K

"Magda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:58:58 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil
<[email protected]>
    > arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:41:25 +0000, Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > ...
    > ... > Tim Kroesen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ... >> Secondly, French arrogance is a well documented and world
known
    > ... >> nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing
at the USA
    > ... >> over the same grounds. Should you and yours *ever* use the
derisive
    > ... >> handle "merkin"
    > ... >
    > ... > When'd you get so P.C.?
    > ...
    > ... What about:
    > ... "Secondly, American arrogance is a well documented and world
known
    > ... nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing
at
    > ... France over the same grounds."
    > ...
    > ... Doesn't it sound about just as good?
    > ...
    > ... :-)
    > Perfect !

Tim Kroesen

Your jailhouse 'friend' admitted personal knowledge of a prison
murder... Again, when will he testify? In the US it is illegal to
profit from a crime by law; the basis on which 'prison authors' are
routinely sued for book profits by their victims, and rightfully so...

I'm glad you two feel so at home amongst Convicts BTW; (moral) birds of
a feather...

Tim K

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BD23E6BB.41250%[email protected]...
    > On 21/07/04 0:17, in article
    > [email protected] t, "Tim Kroesen"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > I wonder who gets the publishing rights; the Elveths or the Cons...
    > Depends on the publication agreement. The last book my wife worked on
    > was
    > ****
    > ROSSI, Richard Michael. Dix-sept ans dans le couloir de la mort :
    > témoignage, Préface de Robert Badinter, Traduit de l¹anglais par
Fabian
    > Gastellier et Donna Evleth, Paris. Fayard, 2001, 305 p.
    > Dans ce livre, l¹auteur, qui pendant 17 ans a attendu la date de son
    > exécution dans le couloir de la mort, nous parle maintenant des
conditions
    > psychologiques et matérielles de ces détenus des prisons à haute
sécurité
    > aux États-Unis.
    > ****
    > Rossi got most of the book proceeds. He has an English version which
will
    > appear in the US. He is a confessed murderer who has been on death row
    > in Arizona now 20 years.
    > > Do any actually believe a prison guard allowed a man with Two shanks
to
    > > walk hallways unfettered??? *45*Minutes of mayhem in a guarded and
    > > observed outside area and not a single guard intervened??? It would
    > > seem someone is pulling the prison newsletter publishers legs! All
the
    > > 'systems and guards' fault is the root of course...
    > You have a perfect record as a know-nothing! Especially how French
prisons
    > work but I suspect you are in the dark about American prisons also.
    > The story was confirmed by others in the prison. Not exceptional for
    > the guards to avoid intervening, it happens frequently in the US. In
    > fact in the US, guards have been known to beat prisoners to death
themselves
    > or arrange their deaths.
    > So it is not exceptional, another prisoner died recently in France
prison
    > killed by his cell mate who then ate his brains. Basically, some
people
    > feel like they need brains. You do!
    > Earl
    > ******
    > Un détenu en tue un autre et commence à manger sa cervelle
    > PARIS (AP) - Fait divers dramatique à la maison centrale de Saint-Maur
    > (Indre): un détenu a tué un autre prisonnier dimanche puis a commencé
Ã
    > manger sa cervelle.
    > L'homme a été mis en examen pour «meurtre suivi d'actes de barbarie»
et
    > placé, par décision du préfet de l'Indre, dans une Unité pour malades
    > difficiles à Sarreguemines (Moselle), a-t-on appris jeudi de source
    > judiciaire.
    > Ce fait divers s'est produit dimanche lors de la distribution des
plateaux
    > repas du soir qui sont servis par des détenus, accompagnés par deux
    > surveillants qui ouvrent les portes des cellules.
    > Il repose la question de l'incarcération des détenus souffrant de
graves
    > problèmes psychiatriques et de la façon dont il sont traités et suivis
    > pendant leur détention. Ce prisonnier de 36 ans avait été condamné en
2000
    > par la cour d'assises de Corrèze pour meurtre suivi d'actes de
cannibalisme.
    > L'homme s'est précipité sur les deux détenus qui servaient le repas et
Ã
    > commencé à les frapper violemment à l'aide d'un cendrier tandis que
les
    > gardiens allaient quérir de l'aide.
    > Lorsque ces derniers sont revenus, l'homme était au-dessus de sa
victime,
    > morte après avoir eu le crâne fracassé, et avait commencé à manger sa
    > cervelle, précise-t-on de sources pénitentiaires. L'autre détenu,
violemment
    > frappé, a failli perdre un oeil, a-t-on ajouté de mêmes sources.
    > L'agresseur a ensuite été placé dans une autre cellule avant d'être
remis
    > aux policiers. Le parquet a ouvert une information judiciaire pour
«meurtre
    > suivi d'actes de barbarie», «violences volontaires avec arme ayant
entraîné
    > une incapacité totale de travail supérieure à huit jours»,
précise-t-on de
    > sources judiciaires.
    > Dès le lendemain de ce drame, deux cellules psychologiques, l'une pour
le
    > personnel, l'autre pour les détenus, ont été mises en place par
    > l'Administration pénitentiaire, a-t-on indiqué de sources syndicales.
    > »Les prisons ne peuvent se substituer à l'hôpital psychiatrique ni
être un
    > hospice», a souligné jeudi, Rémy Carrier, secrétaire général de Force
    > ouvrière pénitentiaire.
    > La centrale de Saint-Maur, où ne sont incarcérés que des détenus ayant
été
    > condamnés à des longues peines, compte environ 200 prisonniers placés
dans
    > des cellules individuelles. AP
    > pas/der/cr

Tim Kroesen

Why not just admit you're an idiot and where dead wrong ignorant???

Tim K

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BD2563F5.415A7%[email protected]...
    > On 22/07/04 0:09, in article
[email protected],
    > "Jipsey" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> For instance, there is a www.f--kfrance.com web site, there is no
    > >> political equivalent attacking the USA from France.
    > >
    > > Maybe you weren't looking hard enough:
    > I tried the equivalent www.f--kusa.com site and it was porno!
    > > http://antiusa.fr.fm/
    > > http://fr.rob.free.fr/antiusa.html

Tim Kroesen

It appears the 'French Factor' is well documented and well known
*across* other Nationalistic lines... As I said.

I've nothing personal against them either, yet the conduct is still
observable fact. Don't bother to rebut Mr. Elveth; you'll *never* be
French in their eyes anyway via the same nationalistic arrogance...<g>

Tim K

"Pan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Tam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > French bureaucrats do not always act rationally, diplomatically or
in
    > > accordance with the reasonable expectations of petitoiners/patrons.
I
    > > once sought a visitor's visa for our Filipnina nanny after she had
    > > been refused (in London) and told to go to Abidjan (where she had
    > > worked for my family) or Manila (her capital). After I debated the
    > > issue with the consular officer for ten minutes he said he would
grant
    > > the visa ... "but only because you speak French".
    > >
    > > Say that again?...
    > That type of behavior is probably common across nationalities, but the
    > French do have a certain flair for being obnoxious. Note I say this
and I
    > still like France and the French people, as opposed to their
bureaucrats
    > (U.S. bureaucrats can be equally obnoxious and unamusing). A few
years back
    > I took my wife (then a permanent resident) to the French embassy in DC
to
    > get a visa since we were planning on taking a few weeks off driving
around
    > Europe. As we didn't have a set itinerary the consular at the visa
section
    > refused to issue the visa. No problem, as I was only trying to comply
with
    > their laws, but we got in via Germany to cross an unmanned border and
saved
    > a few bucks on that French visa we didn't need. So there!

Tim Kroesen

...but we see no such signs in front of German and US embassies, hence
the OP's post... Saying in spirit; better be nice to *us* or you won't
be visiting *elsewhere either*...

Tim K

"Martin Bienwald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Tam schrieb:
    > > The sign has the following significance (by way of explanation, not
    > > justification): persons who engage in abusive behaviour towards
staff
    > > of the French consulate general will be refused visas and will have
    > > their names added to the Schengen list of persons who have had visas
    > > refused.
    > Well, what would probably happen if I went to the US consulate
general,
    > dealed out assorted insults to the staff and tried to apply for a
visa?
    > (They don't erect warning signs, however, probably because they rely
    > on visa applicants' common sense.)
    > > French bureaucrats do not always act rationally, diplomatically or
in
    > > accordance with the reasonable expectations of petitoiners/patrons.
    > I think you can delete "French" from that sentence. In my experience,
    > there are always a few bureaucrats who like to show off their "power"
    > by acting arbitrarily. German bureaucracy certainly has its share of
    > them, and I seriously doubt that you won't find them in US bureaucracy
    > as well.
    > ... Martin

jbk

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:23:40 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:58:58 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil <[email protected]>
    >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:41:25 +0000, Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > ...
    > ... > Tim Kroesen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ... >> Secondly, French arrogance is a well documented and world known
    > ... >> nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at the USA
    > ... >> over the same grounds. Should you and yours *ever* use the derisive
    > ... >> handle "merkin"
    > ... >
    > ... > When'd you get so P.C.?
    > ...
    > ... What about:
    > ... "Secondly, American arrogance is a well documented and world known
    > ... nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at
    > ... France over the same grounds."
    > ...
    > ... Doesn't it sound about just as good?
    > ...
    > ... :-)
    >Perfect !

Too bad it's complete nonsense and a lie isn't it?

jbk

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:32:09 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:36:13 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, Miguel Cruz <[email protected]>
    >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... Tim Kroesen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ... >"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ... >> Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps
    > ... >> you could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as
    > ... >> a continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
    > ... >> Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is
    > ... >> that the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
    > ... >
    > ... > Curious why no other consulates feel need to display such similar
    > ... > signage...
    > ...
    > ... Maybe because various morons in the US have taken it upon themselves to
    > ... blame the French for all the world's ills, not the Italians or the Germans
    > ... or the Swedish. I'm sure the French are sick of hearing about it.
    >I'd say that the French are not even paying attention...
    >It's like being insulted by a 2 year-old - the poor tyke may be furious, but the adults
    >just don't care.

Well, that leaves you out with you juvenile anti-American babble
doesn't it little girl?

Earl Evleth

On 22/07/04 19:38, in article
[email protected] t, "Tim Kroesen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Your jailhouse 'friend' admitted personal knowledge of a prison
    > murder... Again, when will he testify? In the US it is illegal to
    > profit from a crime by law; the basis on which 'prison authors' are
    > routinely sued for book profits by their victims, and rightfully so...
    >
    > I'm glad you two feel so at home amongst Convicts BTW; (moral) birds of
    > a feather...
    >
    > Tim K
    >

This murder took place in the prison yard, which is equipped with
surveillance cameras. There were also dozens of eye witnesses who were in a
much better position than Barry to see what happened since they were
actually in the yard at the time. Barry was not in the yard at the time,
saw this murder only from a distance from a cell window. Barry would thus
be very unlikely to be called to testify.

I still do not see how he is profiting from any crime, even under US law,
since he has written no book, thus has made no profits, and there are no
victims who would sue him. We explained this to you before. But since you
have an IQ of 140, you surely feel you know better than I do, and I
therefore invite you to explain to me how Barry is profiting from any crime.

Donna Evleth

Earl Evleth

On 22/07/04 19:43, in article
[email protected] t, "Tim Kroesen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Why not just admit you're an idiot and where dead wrong ignorant???
    >

Please compare

www.f--kfrance.com
www.f--kusa.com

And report back your comparative analysis.

Earl

Tam

Martin Bienwald <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Tam schrieb:
    >
    > > The sign has the following significance (by way of explanation, not
    > > justification): persons who engage in abusive behaviour towards staff
    > > of the French consulate general will be refused visas and will have
    > > their names added to the Schengen list of persons who have had visas
    > > refused.
    >
    > Well, what would probably happen if I went to the US consulate general,
    > dealed out assorted insults to the staff and tried to apply for a visa?
    >
    > (They don't erect warning signs, however, probably because they rely
    > on visa applicants' common sense.)
    >
    > > French bureaucrats do not always act rationally, diplomatically or in
    > > accordance with the reasonable expectations of petitoiners/patrons.
    >
    > I think you can delete "French" from that sentence. In my experience,
    > there are always a few bureaucrats who like to show off their "power"
    > by acting arbitrarily. German bureaucracy certainly has its share of
    > them, and I seriously doubt that you won't find them in US bureaucracy
    > as well.

No, but the French have a way of smirking when they say, «Monsieur,
vous êtes en situation irrégulière».

I recall once being stopped for inspection by a CRS gendarme on a
country road near Marseille with a WW-registered van containing crates
of wine for which I had no particular documentation. It gave me some
pleasure to be able to respond to his demand for my papers with
documents in the name of my government, plus my diplomatic credentials
and ordre de mission, and the polite insistence that while he could
not look inside the van without specific authorisation from the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, he had my assurance that everything
therein was property of my country's ambassador in Paris being
despatched to our ambassador in Algiers. I did not smirk, but I was
let go on my terms, albeit with (I perhaps imagined) some reluctance.

(For info: within 25 kms of a French frontier, any traveler can be
interpolated by the gendarmes on suspicion (or not) of
smuggling/trafficking: i.e., for any reason or none at all. And wine,
when carried in quantities of more than a couple of cases requires
itemised VAT receipts.)

And, BTW, nobody ever caused me grief during my brief tenure as a
consular officer; and only rarely in other capacities. But in most of
my career I happily did not have to deal with the general public.

Tim Kroesen

I'll bet that Jailbird will testify at some civil action or another he
warned the guards that there would be trouble; guards saw this inmate
with weapons, and that they did nothing... Priorities, you know...
(YOURS AND HIS)

Tim K

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BD25EA56.4173D%[email protected]...
    > On 22/07/04 19:38, in article
    > [email protected] t, "Tim Kroesen"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Your jailhouse 'friend' admitted personal knowledge of a prison
    > > murder... Again, when will he testify? In the US it is illegal to
    > > profit from a crime by law; the basis on which 'prison authors' are
    > > routinely sued for book profits by their victims, and rightfully
so...
    > >
    > > I'm glad you two feel so at home amongst Convicts BTW; (moral)
birds of
    > > a feather...
    > >
    > > Tim K
    > >
    > This murder took place in the prison yard, which is equipped with
    > surveillance cameras. There were also dozens of eye witnesses who
were in a
    > much better position than Barry to see what happened since they were
    > actually in the yard at the time. Barry was not in the yard at the
time,
    > saw this murder only from a distance from a cell window. Barry would
thus
    > be very unlikely to be called to testify.
    > I still do not see how he is profiting from any crime, even under US
law,
    > since he has written no book, thus has made no profits, and there are
no
    > victims who would sue him. We explained this to you before. But
since you
    > have an IQ of 140, you surely feel you know better than I do, and I
    > therefore invite you to explain to me how Barry is profiting from any
crime.
    > Donna Evleth

Tim Kroesen

Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:

    >For instance, there is a www.f--kfrance.com web site, there is no
    >political equivalent attacking the USA from France.

Maybe you weren't looking hard enough:

http://antiusa.fr.fm/
http://fr.rob.free.fr/antiusa.html

Whinnying again? That site was never used to rebut your fallacy...

Tim K

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BD25EAD1.4173E%[email protected]...
    > On 22/07/04 19:43, in article
    > [email protected] t, "Tim Kroesen"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Why not just admit you're an idiot and where dead wrong ignorant???
    > >
    > Please compare
    > www.f--kfrance.com
    > www.f--kusa.com
    > And report back your comparative analysis.
    > Earl

Devil

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:42:07 -0400, jbk wrote:

    > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:23:40 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:58:58 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil <[email protected]>
    >>arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >> ... On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:41:25 +0000, Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >> ...
    >> ... > Tim Kroesen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> ... >> Secondly, French arrogance is a well documented and world known
    >> ... >> nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at the USA
    >> ... >> over the same grounds. Should you and yours *ever* use the derisive
    >> ... >> handle "merkin"
    >> ... >
    >> ... > When'd you get so P.C.?
    >> ...
    >> ... What about:
    >> ... "Secondly, American arrogance is a well documented and world known
    >> ... nationalistic phenomena that far exceeds any finger pointing at
    >> ... France over the same grounds."
    >> ...
    >> ... Doesn't it sound about just as good?
    >> ...
    >> ... :-)
    >>Perfect !
    >
    > Too bad it's complete nonsense and a lie isn't it?

What's a lie? American nationalism? French nationalism? American
arrogance, french arrogance? Having lived in both countries without being
a citizen of either, and having been on the receiving end of all, I can
attest to the effect that all are too real. And that French and American
arrgoance and nationalism/chauvinism are close cousins.