NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
Jul 20th 2004, 12:59 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com
French Consulate demands respect
By Stewart Stogel
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published July 20, 2004
NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
before entering.
    "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
    French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
appeared.
    Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
    "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
[European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
French-Canadian by birth.
    Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
    As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
    American tourists and business officials who visit France or the
rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
   Â
Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
Return to the article
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com
French Consulate demands respect
By Stewart Stogel
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published July 20, 2004
NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
before entering.
    "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
    French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
appeared.
    Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
    "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
[European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
French-Canadian by birth.
    Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
    As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
    American tourists and business officials who visit France or the
rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
   Â
Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
Return to the article
Jul 20th 2004, 2:09 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
automatically suspect.
However, source notwithstanding, Americans don't need visas to go to France.
This doesn't make any sense.
"Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:200720040559392333%[email protected]...
> What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
> jay
> Tue Jul 20, 2004
> mailto:[email protected]
> The Washington Times
> www.washingtontimes.com
> French Consulate demands respect
> By Stewart Stogel
> THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> Published July 20, 2004
> NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
> remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
> in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
> before entering.
> "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
> requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
> will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
> of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
> Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
> French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
> explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
> appeared.
> Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
> United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
> "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
> Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
> [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
> authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
> French-Canadian by birth.
> Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
> Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
> As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
> clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
> to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
> American tourists and business officials who visit France or the
> rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
> Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
> Return to the article
automatically suspect.
However, source notwithstanding, Americans don't need visas to go to France.
This doesn't make any sense.
"Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:200720040559392333%[email protected]...
> What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
> jay
> Tue Jul 20, 2004
> mailto:[email protected]
> The Washington Times
> www.washingtontimes.com
> French Consulate demands respect
> By Stewart Stogel
> THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> Published July 20, 2004
> NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
> remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
> in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
> before entering.
> "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
> requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
> will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
> of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
> Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
> French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
> explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
> appeared.
> Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
> United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
> "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
> Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
> [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
> authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
> French-Canadian by birth.
> Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
> Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
> As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
> clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
> to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
> American tourists and business officials who visit France or the
> rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
> Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
> Return to the article
Jul 20th 2004, 2:15 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:59:39 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
> What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
>
> jay
> Tue Jul 20, 2004
> mailto:[email protected]
Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
refuse a visa to anyone.
And surely they should refuse a visa to anyone who is offensive to
consulate personnel? Try the same at a US consulate, how far do you think
you'll get?
> The Washington Times
> www.washingtontimes.com
>
> French Consulate demands respect
> By Stewart Stogel
> THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> Published July 20, 2004
> NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
> remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
> in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
> before entering.
> Â Â Â Â "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
> requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
> will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
> of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
> Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
> Â Â Â Â French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
> explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
> appeared.
> Â Â Â Â Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
> United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
> Â Â Â Â "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
> Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
> [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
> authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
> French-Canadian by birth.
> Â Â Â Â Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
> Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
I guess they are just taking a hit from US representation behavior? If
you want similar examples, we can give you a few.
> Â Â Â Â As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
> clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
> to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
> Â Â Â Â American tourists and business officials who visit France or
> the
> rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
As to "denying visas to the EU," that sounds like a bit of a stretch in
the interpretation. OTOH, if the various EU countries share a database,
which they may, or even if the application form asks whether the
applicatant has ever been denied an EU visa, then they are actually more
or less right.
Anyway, what's the fuss all about? Still quite a bit milder than US
representations, which even charge just for answering the phone.
> What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
>
> jay
> Tue Jul 20, 2004
> mailto:[email protected]
Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
refuse a visa to anyone.
And surely they should refuse a visa to anyone who is offensive to
consulate personnel? Try the same at a US consulate, how far do you think
you'll get?
> The Washington Times
> www.washingtontimes.com
>
> French Consulate demands respect
> By Stewart Stogel
> THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> Published July 20, 2004
> NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
> remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
> in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
> before entering.
> Â Â Â Â "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
> requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
> will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
> of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
> Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
> Â Â Â Â French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
> explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
> appeared.
> Â Â Â Â Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
> United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
> Â Â Â Â "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
> Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
> [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
> authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
> French-Canadian by birth.
> Â Â Â Â Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
> Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
I guess they are just taking a hit from US representation behavior? If
you want similar examples, we can give you a few.
> Â Â Â Â As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
> clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
> to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
> Â Â Â Â American tourists and business officials who visit France or
> the
> rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
As to "denying visas to the EU," that sounds like a bit of a stretch in
the interpretation. OTOH, if the various EU countries share a database,
which they may, or even if the application form asks whether the
applicatant has ever been denied an EU visa, then they are actually more
or less right.
Anyway, what's the fuss all about? Still quite a bit milder than US
representations, which even charge just for answering the phone.
Jul 20th 2004, 2:48 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:09:26 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
>automatically suspect.
is the washington post a better source? i don't think so, all media
outlets have their bias, but facts remain facts regardless of the
messenger. You just have to learn how to read everything with a filter
wrote:
>Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
>automatically suspect.
is the washington post a better source? i don't think so, all media
outlets have their bias, but facts remain facts regardless of the
messenger. You just have to learn how to read everything with a filter
Jul 20th 2004, 3:16 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
In article <[email protected] >, PTRAVEL
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
> automatically suspect.
>
> However, source notwithstanding, Americans don't need visas to go to France.
> This doesn't make any sense.
As it clearly states in the article, VISA is not needed for a short
stay to France.
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
>
> "Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:200720040559392333%[email protected]...
> > What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
> >
> > jay
> > Tue Jul 20, 2004
> > mailto:[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Washington Times
> > www.washingtontimes.com
> >
> > French Consulate demands respect
> > By Stewart Stogel
> > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> > Published July 20, 2004
> > NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
> > remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
> > in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
> > before entering.
> > "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
> > requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
> > will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
> > of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
> > Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
> > French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
> > explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
> > appeared.
> > Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
> > United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
> > "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
> > Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
> > [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
> > authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
> > French-Canadian by birth.
> > Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
> > Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
> > As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
> > clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
> > to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
> > American tourists and business officials who visit France or the
> > rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
> > Return to the article
>
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
> automatically suspect.
>
> However, source notwithstanding, Americans don't need visas to go to France.
> This doesn't make any sense.
As it clearly states in the article, VISA is not needed for a short
stay to France.
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
>
> "Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:200720040559392333%[email protected]...
> > What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
> >
> > jay
> > Tue Jul 20, 2004
> > mailto:[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Washington Times
> > www.washingtontimes.com
> >
> > French Consulate demands respect
> > By Stewart Stogel
> > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> > Published July 20, 2004
> > NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
> > remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
> > in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
> > before entering.
> > "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
> > requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
> > will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
> > of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
> > Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
> > French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
> > explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
> > appeared.
> > Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
> > United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
> > "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
> > Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
> > [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
> > authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
> > French-Canadian by birth.
> > Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
> > Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
> > As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
> > clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
> > to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
> > American tourists and business officials who visit France or the
> > rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
> > Return to the article
>
Jul 20th 2004, 3:26 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
In article <[email protected]>, devil
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:59:39 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
>
> > What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
> >
> > jay
> > Tue Jul 20, 2004
> > mailto:[email protected]
>
> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
> refuse a visa to anyone.
but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
> And surely they should refuse a visa to anyone who is offensive to
> consulate personnel? Try the same at a US consulate, how far do you think
> you'll get?
>
> > The Washington Times
> > www.washingtontimes.com
> >
> > French Consulate demands respect
> > By Stewart Stogel
> > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> > Published July 20, 2004
> > NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
> > remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
> > in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
> > before entering.
> > Â Â Â Â "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
> > requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
> > will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
> > of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
> > Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
> > Â Â Â Â French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
> > explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
> > appeared.
> > Â Â Â Â Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
> > United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
> > Â Â Â Â "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
> > Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
> > [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
> > authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
> > French-Canadian by birth.
> > Â Â Â Â Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
> > Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
>
> I guess they are just taking a hit from US representation behavior? If
> you want similar examples, we can give you a few.
Who is "we", are you now a collective of some sort ?
>
> > Â Â Â Â As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
> > clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
> > to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
> > Â Â Â Â American tourists and business officials who visit France or
> > the
> > rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
>
> As to "denying visas to the EU," that sounds like a bit of a stretch in
> the interpretation.
How do you 'interpret' this:
"...Failure to do so will result in the denial of the application and
denied entry into any of the EU countries," says the sign posted in
English at the French Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the
European Union.
> OTOH, if the various EU countries share a database,
> which they may, or even if the application form asks whether the
> applicatant has ever been denied an EU visa, then they are actually more
> or less right.
So, it is still up to the individual country to decide.
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
> Anyway, what's the fuss all about? Still quite a bit milder than US
> representations, which even charge just for answering the phone.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:59:39 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
>
> > What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
> >
> > jay
> > Tue Jul 20, 2004
> > mailto:[email protected]
>
> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
> refuse a visa to anyone.
but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
> And surely they should refuse a visa to anyone who is offensive to
> consulate personnel? Try the same at a US consulate, how far do you think
> you'll get?
>
> > The Washington Times
> > www.washingtontimes.com
> >
> > French Consulate demands respect
> > By Stewart Stogel
> > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> > Published July 20, 2004
> > NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
> > remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
> > in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
> > before entering.
> > Â Â Â Â "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
> > requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
> > will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
> > of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
> > Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
> > Â Â Â Â French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
> > explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
> > appeared.
> > Â Â Â Â Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
> > United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
> > Â Â Â Â "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
> > Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
> > [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
> > authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
> > French-Canadian by birth.
> > Â Â Â Â Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
> > Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
>
> I guess they are just taking a hit from US representation behavior? If
> you want similar examples, we can give you a few.
Who is "we", are you now a collective of some sort ?
>
> > Â Â Â Â As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
> > clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
> > to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
> > Â Â Â Â American tourists and business officials who visit France or
> > the
> > rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
>
> As to "denying visas to the EU," that sounds like a bit of a stretch in
> the interpretation.
How do you 'interpret' this:
"...Failure to do so will result in the denial of the application and
denied entry into any of the EU countries," says the sign posted in
English at the French Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the
European Union.
> OTOH, if the various EU countries share a database,
> which they may, or even if the application form asks whether the
> applicatant has ever been denied an EU visa, then they are actually more
> or less right.
So, it is still up to the individual country to decide.
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
> Anyway, what's the fuss all about? Still quite a bit milder than US
> representations, which even charge just for answering the phone.
Jul 20th 2004, 3:49 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:26:07 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, devil
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:59:39 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
>>
>> > What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
>> >
>> > jay
>> > Tue Jul 20, 2004
>> > mailto:[email protected]
>>
>> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
>> refuse a visa to anyone.
>
> but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
To the extent that the visa is valid for entry to any EU country, yes they
do.
The implication that a subsequent application might also be denied is not
theirs, but the reader's.
>> And surely they should refuse a visa to anyone who is offensive to
>> consulate personnel? Try the same at a US consulate, how far do you think
>> you'll get?
>>
>> > The Washington Times
>> > www.washingtontimes.com
>> >
>> > French Consulate demands respect
>> > By Stewart Stogel
>> > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>> > Published July 20, 2004
>> > NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
>> > remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
>> > in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
>> > before entering.
>> > Â Â Â Â "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
>> > requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
>> > will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
>> > of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
>> > Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
>> > Â Â Â Â French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
>> > explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
>> > appeared.
>> > Â Â Â Â Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
>> > United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
>> > Â Â Â Â "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
>> > Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
>> > [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
>> > authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
>> > French-Canadian by birth.
>> > Â Â Â Â Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
>> > Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
>>
>> I guess they are just taking a hit from US representation behavior? If
>> you want similar examples, we can give you a few.
>
> Who is "we", are you now a collective of some sort ?
Yes, I guess.
(Examples were not my own personal experience.)
>> > Â Â Â Â As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
>> > clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
>> > to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
>> > Â Â Â Â American tourists and business officials who visit France or
>> > the
>> > rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
>>
>> As to "denying visas to the EU," that sounds like a bit of a stretch in
>> the interpretation.
>
> How do you 'interpret' this:
>
> "...Failure to do so will result in the denial of the application and
> denied entry into any of the EU countries," says the sign posted in
> English at the French Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the
> European Union.
Factually correct. Denying the visa is denying entry in any of them
since the visa is valid in all of them.
>> OTOH, if the various EU countries share a database, which they may, or
>> even if the application form asks whether the applicatant has ever been
>> denied an EU visa, then they are actually more or less right.
>
> So, it is still up to the individual country to decide.
No. You get a visa from one, all others will accept it.
Nowhere does the note says or implies that subsequent applications might
be denied too. That was a more or less groundless conclusion that the
article writer (and you too apparently) made.
> In article <[email protected]>, devil
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:59:39 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
>>
>> > What were some of you saying about Sharon's comments ?
>> >
>> > jay
>> > Tue Jul 20, 2004
>> > mailto:[email protected]
>>
>> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
>> refuse a visa to anyone.
>
> but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
To the extent that the visa is valid for entry to any EU country, yes they
do.
The implication that a subsequent application might also be denied is not
theirs, but the reader's.
>> And surely they should refuse a visa to anyone who is offensive to
>> consulate personnel? Try the same at a US consulate, how far do you think
>> you'll get?
>>
>> > The Washington Times
>> > www.washingtontimes.com
>> >
>> > French Consulate demands respect
>> > By Stewart Stogel
>> > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>> > Published July 20, 2004
>> > NEW YORK -- In a sign that relations between Washington and Paris
>> > remain a bit testy, a notice on the front door of the French Consulate
>> > in New York warns Americans applying for a visa to check their attitude
>> > before entering.
>> > Â Â Â Â "Visas for France are not a right. Persons applying for visas are
>> > requested to show due respect for Consular personnel. Failure to do so
>> > will result in the denial of the application and denied entry into any
>> > of the EU countries," says the sign posted in English at the French
>> > Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the European Union.
>> > Â Â Â Â French Foreign Ministry officials did not reply when asked for an
>> > explanation, making it impossible to determine when the notice first
>> > appeared.
>> > Â Â Â Â Andre Sirois, a lawyer who practices international law at the
>> > United Nations, said the warning in French is even stronger:
>> > Â Â Â Â "This is very rude, undiplomatic and probably illegal. ...
>> > Actually, it could cause a good rift between France and those
>> > [European] countries who have probably not delegated their visa
>> > authority to the French government," said Mr. Sirois, who is
>> > French-Canadian by birth.
>> > Â Â Â Â Mr. Sirois said he knows of no law that gives any one European
>> > Union nation a veto over immigration actions of another.
>>
>> I guess they are just taking a hit from US representation behavior? If
>> you want similar examples, we can give you a few.
>
> Who is "we", are you now a collective of some sort ?
Yes, I guess.
(Examples were not my own personal experience.)
>> > Â Â Â Â As for the sign on the consulate door in New York, it was not
>> > clear what brought on the warning, nor why Paris feels it has the right
>> > to exercise a veto over immigration to other European nations.
>> > Â Â Â Â American tourists and business officials who visit France or
>> > the
>> > rest of Western Europe for short periods do not need a visa.
>>
>> As to "denying visas to the EU," that sounds like a bit of a stretch in
>> the interpretation.
>
> How do you 'interpret' this:
>
> "...Failure to do so will result in the denial of the application and
> denied entry into any of the EU countries," says the sign posted in
> English at the French Consulate at 10 East 74th St., referring to the
> European Union.
Factually correct. Denying the visa is denying entry in any of them
since the visa is valid in all of them.
>> OTOH, if the various EU countries share a database, which they may, or
>> even if the application form asks whether the applicatant has ever been
>> denied an EU visa, then they are actually more or less right.
>
> So, it is still up to the individual country to decide.
No. You get a visa from one, all others will accept it.
Nowhere does the note says or implies that subsequent applications might
be denied too. That was a more or less groundless conclusion that the
article writer (and you too apparently) made.
Jul 20th 2004, 4:02 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
"127.0.0.1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:09:26 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
> >automatically suspect.
> is the washington post a better source?
Well, yes, in that, unlike the Washington Times, it doesn't have an agenda
beyond reporting the news.
> i don't think so, all media
> outlets have their bias, but facts remain facts regardless of the
> messenger.
I agree -- facts remain facts. However, I don't trust reporters of supposed
facts if they have an express agenda.
> You just have to learn how to read everything with a filter
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:09:26 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
> >automatically suspect.
> is the washington post a better source?
Well, yes, in that, unlike the Washington Times, it doesn't have an agenda
beyond reporting the news.
> i don't think so, all media
> outlets have their bias, but facts remain facts regardless of the
> messenger.
I agree -- facts remain facts. However, I don't trust reporters of supposed
facts if they have an express agenda.
> You just have to learn how to read everything with a filter
Jul 20th 2004, 4:10 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> devil <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
>> refuse a visa to anyone.
> but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps you
could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as a
continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is that
the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> devil <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
>> refuse a visa to anyone.
> but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps you
could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as a
continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is that
the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Jul 20th 2004, 4:21 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
In article <[email protected]>, PTRAVEL
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "127.0.0.1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:09:26 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
> > >automatically suspect.
> > is the washington post a better source?
>
> Well, yes, in that, unlike the Washington Times, it doesn't have an agenda
> beyond reporting the news.
But they all do, NSA Berger is in hot water today. It was the cover of
USA Today, page 18 in the NYT.
>
> > i don't think so, all media
> > outlets have their bias, but facts remain facts regardless of the
> > messenger.
>
> I agree -- facts remain facts. However, I don't trust reporters of supposed
> facts if they have an express agenda.
Do you trust the NYT ?
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
> > You just have to learn how to read everything with a filter
>
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "127.0.0.1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:09:26 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
> > >automatically suspect.
> > is the washington post a better source?
>
> Well, yes, in that, unlike the Washington Times, it doesn't have an agenda
> beyond reporting the news.
But they all do, NSA Berger is in hot water today. It was the cover of
USA Today, page 18 in the NYT.
>
> > i don't think so, all media
> > outlets have their bias, but facts remain facts regardless of the
> > messenger.
>
> I agree -- facts remain facts. However, I don't trust reporters of supposed
> facts if they have an express agenda.
Do you trust the NYT ?
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
> > You just have to learn how to read everything with a filter
>
Jul 20th 2004, 4:26 am
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:02:21 -0700, "PTRAVEL"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"127.0.0.1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:09:26 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
>> >automatically suspect.
>> is the washington post a better source?
>Well, yes, in that, unlike the Washington Times, it doesn't have an agenda
>beyond reporting the news.
bullshit, the post has as much of an agenda as any other newspaper,
maybe you're just too biased to see it
>> i don't think so, all media
>> outlets have their bias, but facts remain facts regardless of the
>> messenger.
>I agree -- facts remain facts. However, I don't trust reporters of supposed
>facts if they have an express agenda.
and the post's reporters don't have an agenda? grow up!
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"127.0.0.1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:09:26 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >Well, first of all it's from the Washington Times, which makes it
>> >automatically suspect.
>> is the washington post a better source?
>Well, yes, in that, unlike the Washington Times, it doesn't have an agenda
>beyond reporting the news.
bullshit, the post has as much of an agenda as any other newspaper,
maybe you're just too biased to see it
>> i don't think so, all media
>> outlets have their bias, but facts remain facts regardless of the
>> messenger.
>I agree -- facts remain facts. However, I don't trust reporters of supposed
>facts if they have an express agenda.
and the post's reporters don't have an agenda? grow up!
Jul 20th 2004, 4:27 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
In article <[email protected]>, Miguel Cruz
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> > devil <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
> >> refuse a visa to anyone.
> >
> > but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
>
> Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps you
> could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as a
> continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
> Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is that
> the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
You should read more carefully, the French are saying you can't go to
Italy if your rude to the French.
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
> miguel
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> > devil <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
> >> refuse a visa to anyone.
> >
> > but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
>
> Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps you
> could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as a
> continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
> Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is that
> the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
You should read more carefully, the French are saying you can't go to
Italy if your rude to the French.
jay
Tue Jul 20, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
> miguel
Jul 20th 2004, 4:27 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:21:17 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>Do you trust the NYT ?
do you trust any media outlet?
>Do you trust the NYT ?
do you trust any media outlet?
Jul 20th 2004, 4:29 am
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
Curious why no other consulates feel need to display such similar
signage...
Tim K
"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> > devil <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right
to
> >> refuse a visa to anyone.
> >
> > but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
> Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps
you
> could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as a
> continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
> Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is
that
> the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
> miguel
> --
> Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
signage...
Tim K
"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> > devil <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right
to
> >> refuse a visa to anyone.
> >
> > but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
> Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps
you
> could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as a
> continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
> Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is
that
> the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
> miguel
> --
> Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
Jul 20th 2004, 4:35 am
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NYC French Consulate makes illegal threat to Americans
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:27:01 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Miguel Cruz
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > devil <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
>> >> refuse a visa to anyone.
>> >
>> > but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
>>
>> Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps you
>> could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as a
>> continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
>> Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is that
>> the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
>
> You should read more carefully, the French are saying you can't go to
> Italy if your rude to the French.
No they don't. They day you should not ask them to give you a visa to go
to Italy if you are going to be rude.
That's all. They'll deny your application for a visa to enter the EU.
> In article <[email protected]>, Miguel Cruz
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > devil <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Where is this "illegal threat?" Surely they do have every right to
>> >> refuse a visa to anyone.
>> >
>> > but to any EU country, they don't have that right.
>>
>> Go to the Italian consulate, for example, and be rude to them (perhaps you
>> could storm in yelling at them about how they're morally bankrupt as a
>> continent because of what happened under the Netherlands' watch in
>> Srebrenica), and see if you get your visa. The only difference here is that
>> the French have reportedly put the obvious on a sign.
>
> You should read more carefully, the French are saying you can't go to
> Italy if your rude to the French.
No they don't. They day you should not ask them to give you a visa to go
to Italy if you are going to be rude.
That's all. They'll deny your application for a visa to enter the EU.
