Devil

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:34:15 -0400, 127.0.0.1 wrote:

    > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:59:15 +0100, "Owain"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>"Icono Clast" wrote
    >>| Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
    >>...
    >>| And this be our motto: "In God is our trust".
    >>Thought there was supposed to be separation between Church and State?
    >
    > and just how does that motto connect church and state? you can believe
    > in god without ever stepping foot into a church

If it were "in a god...," you might have a point. But as it is, it's a
very specific god, implication being that it's "the" one. And it does have
churches.

Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:59:31 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <[email protected]>, Olivers
    > ><[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
    > >>
    > >> > The flag code does not have the force of law.
    > >> >
    > >> Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in the
    > >> US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal criticism,
    > >> cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal thrashing.
    > >
    > >The latter two I have never witnessed, the first two are free speech,
    > >aren't they ?
    >
    > What's that got to do with it?


If people want to make a statement or protest by not observing the
Code, fine. But other's have the right to protest that action as
well... like in 'loud vocal criticism' of the action.

jay
Fri Aug 27, 2004
mailto:[email protected]

    >
    >
    > ************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
    > * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
    > * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:32:55 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:24:34 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    >> ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:23:44 GMT, "geotek" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> >> There are many of us who would prefer that "America the Beutiful"
    >> >> be the ntional anthem.
    >> >
    >> >FWIW: Irving Berlin was not in favor of this and he maintained that
    >> >position till his death.... I'm sure you know this common trivia
    >> >through ;-)
    >>
    >> I'm not sure wy this is important. Berlin didn't write "America
    >> the Beautiful." Perhaps you're thinking of "God Bless America."
    >I am. When I saw "prefer" I jumped the gun. I believe, Berlin's "God
    >Bless America" is the only song that was really ever strongly
    >considered to be a replacement.
    >>
No. "America the Beautiful has always been considered the
potential anthem.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:24:34 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    > ><[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:23:44 GMT, "geotek" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >
    > >> >"Icono Clast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> >news:[email protected]. com...
    > >> >> Go Fig wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> > For a U.S. Citizen, placing your hand over the heart is part of the
    > >> >> > official code.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> It is? Can you cite it? I always put my hands behind my back as the
    > >> >> national anthem of the USA is too violent and godly for me to honor.
    > >> >> It fits the current Administration well.
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >> >It fit past administrations well, also. It described the birth of the
    > >> >United States well, too. Perhaps you should try to stick one thumb up you
    > >> >arse, and one thumb in your mouth. Switch hands periodically, while you
    > >> >curl in the fetal position.
    > >> >geotek
    > >>
    > >> There are many of us who would prefer that "America the Beutiful"
    > >> be the ntional anthem.
    > >
    > >FWIW: Irving Berlin was not in favor of this and he maintained that
    > >position till his death.... I'm sure you know this common trivia
    > >through ;-)
    >
    > I'm not sure wy this is important. Berlin didn't write "America
    > the Beautiful." Perhaps you're thinking of "God Bless America."


I am. When I saw "prefer" I jumped the gun. I believe, Berlin's "God
Bless America" is the only song that was really ever strongly
considered to be a replacement.
    >
    > >You would never catch Berlin without standing at attention and hand
    > >over heart during the National Anthem, he was profoundly grateful, as
    > >an immigrant from Russia, to be an American. A Jewish American who
    > >wrote "Easter Parade" and "White Christmas".... go figure ? Nope,
    > >America !
    >
    > Do you think he wouldn't have stood reverently for "America the
    > Beautiful"?

no.

jay
Fri Aug 27, 2004
mailto:[email protected]


    >
    > ************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
    > * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
    > * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>, devil
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:35:05 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Hatunen writes:
    > >>
    > >> > As already cited in this thread:
    > >> >
    > >> > U.S. Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171
    > >>
    > >> The official suggestion, you mean?
    > >
    > > I posted the text. It is not a suggestion, it just carries no penalty
    > > under law. For those who choose not to, I doubt they feel those who do
    > > are 'silly'.
    >
    >
    > Of course they are. The whole idea is. Manipulation of the worst kind,
    > actually.

Many American's, new and old, are grateful to be Americans. Why is
this small and voluntary gesture silly ?

What if you just stand, is that too silly ?

jay
Fri Aug 27, 2004
mailto:[email protected]

Mxsmanic

Hatunen writes:

    > Besides, national anthems are supposed to be pathetic, mediocre
    > and derivative. On National Public Radio the other day a
    > commentator played parts of a number of national anthems to show
    > how similar the tunes were.

They all bear an eerie resemblance to the stupid songs that cheerleaders
would lead at high-school football games. I think they are in roughly
the same intellectual category.

--
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Mxsmanic

Go Fig writes:

    > FWIW: Irving Berlin was not in favor of this and he maintained that
    > position till his death...

So?

    > You would never catch Berlin without standing at attention and hand
    > over heart during the National Anthem, he was profoundly grateful, as
    > an immigrant from Russia, to be an American.

So?

--
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Mxsmanic

jenn writes:

    > I used to go to the movies in Canada and always stood when their
    > national anthem was played before the show -- a minimal sense of
    > civility is indicated when a guest in someone else's country

I stand for the French national anthem, as I am a guest in France. But
I feel no such obligation for my native land.

--
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Mxsmanic

Olivers writes:

    > Fortunately for you, you were not in a School District in which the level
    > of peer pressure did not exceed premissive local practice.

Your constant adumbrations of violence betray a preoccupation with it.
Violence doesn't rule the world, despite appearances.

    > I can't imagine any school district nearby in which one could remain
    > seated during the national Anthem and long enjoy the nenfits of good health.

So?

    > Kids are far
    > crueler than adults and less likely to consider the accountability of their
    > actions.

They learn fast when they are held accountable.

    > Let's face it. Were you sitting out on the Champs D'Elysee on Bastille Day
    > during the ceremonies and the band struck up the French Anthem, do you not
    > expect that some among the French might be offended, yea, even so offended
    > as to respond.

The French are even less prone to violence than Americans.

--
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Mxsmanic

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

    > Would they treat a visible foreigner that way too?

Americans are even less tolerant of foreigners than they are of other
citizens--but they are not as ill-behaved as Olivers would seem to like
to believe.

    > I mean the USA aren't
    > my country, it would be ridiculous if I posed like that to a foreign
    > country's anthem.

Would it? I'll stand for the French anthem out of courtesy, although I
don't put my hand on my heart or salute for any anthem (nor for hats on
a pole, for that matter).

    > What if I'm agnostic and tell everyone in advance?

They'll just manifest their intolerance sooner, if they are prone to
doing that in the first place.

--
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Mxsmanic

Go Fig writes:

    > If people want to make a statement or protest by not observing the
    > Code, fine. But other's have the right to protest that action as
    > well... like in 'loud vocal criticism' of the action.

Some people cower or wet their pants in reaction to loud vocal
criticism.

--
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Mxsmanic

Go Fig writes:

    > It is not a suggestion, it just carries no penalty
    > under law.

What's the difference?

--
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Mxsmanic

Al writes:

    > What does it say about singing along? Did you see the US women's
    > soccer team receiving their medals?

As a general rule, I don't find the behavior of athletes to be an ideal
model to emulate.

--
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Joe White

In article <270820041758174575%[email protected]>, Go Fig <[email protected]>
wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, devil
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:35:05 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
    > >
    > > > In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
    > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> Hatunen writes:
    > > >>
    > > >> > As already cited in this thread:
    > > >> >
    > > >> > U.S. Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171
    > > >>
    > > >> The official suggestion, you mean?
    > > >
    > > > I posted the text. It is not a suggestion, it just carries no penalty
    > > > under law. For those who choose not to, I doubt they feel those who do
    > > > are 'silly'.
    > >
    > >
    > > Of course they are. The whole idea is. Manipulation of the worst kind,
    > > actually.
    >
    > Many American's, new and old, are grateful to be Americans. Why is
    > this small and voluntary gesture silly ?
    >
    > What if you just stand, is that too silly ?
    >
    > jay
    > Fri Aug 27, 2004
    > mailto:[email protected]

That's because more and more are not so grateful to be part of lies and
corruption which are held in such esteem by are so called "elected"
leaders in the land of the not so free.

Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>, Joe White
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <270820041758174575%[email protected]>, Go Fig <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>, devil
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:35:05 -0700, Go Fig wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
    > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > >> Hatunen writes:
    > > > >>
    > > > >> > As already cited in this thread:
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > U.S. Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171
    > > > >>
    > > > >> The official suggestion, you mean?
    > > > >
    > > > > I posted the text. It is not a suggestion, it just carries no penalty
    > > > > under law. For those who choose not to, I doubt they feel those who do
    > > > > are 'silly'.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Of course they are. The whole idea is. Manipulation of the worst kind,
    > > > actually.
    > >
    > > Many American's, new and old, are grateful to be Americans. Why is
    > > this small and voluntary gesture silly ?
    > >
    > > What if you just stand, is that too silly ?
    > >
    > > jay
    > > Fri Aug 27, 2004
    > > mailto:[email protected]
    >
    > That's because more and more are not so grateful to be part of lies and
    > corruption which are held in such esteem by are so called "elected"
    > leaders in the land of the not so free.

That energy has sadly been misguided, if Kerry is to be the opposition.

jay
Fri Aug 27, 2004
mailto:[email protected]