National Anthem Traditions?
Aug 27th 2004, 7:01 am
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Greece is still part of the Third World.
no
--
don't you
want want
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
news:[email protected]:
> Greece is still part of the Third World.
no
--
don't you
want want
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
Aug 27th 2004, 7:03 am
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:09:46 -0500, Olivers
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
>
>>
>> The flag code does not have the force of law.
>>
>
>Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in the
>US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal criticism,
>cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal thrashing.
>Out there in the Heartland/Flyover states, especially in rural areas and
>small town public gatherings, the principle which allows one not to observe
>the flag code often gives way to a harsher reality of an intolerant
>populace.
Your point being, what? There are a great many things one can do
that are not illegal but which will bring disapproval from
others.
>Taking your hat off for the pregame prayer is also recommended.
I suggest you not go to these events.
>I'm interested at the choice of many US athletes, mostly men
>(appropriately, I believe, "uncovering" as it were) to hold the laurel
>wreath over their hearts during the Anthem. The traditional ancient salute
>was probably to hold it extended at arm's length in the right hand.
>While one could hardly applaud the musical capacity of the US women who
>play soccer and sing loudly, their commitment to trying to sing and joy of
>the moment were appealing. Whenever I see Olympic winners actually singing
>or otherwise enraptured by their national anthems, I'm always reminded that
>that's what Beethoven may have meant by "Ode to Joy".
Schiller wrote "ode to Joy"; Beethoven set it to music.
>I note that the
>Greek winners seem fully as jingoistic as any of the USAians (most of whom
>have acted other than 'Merkinish).
Most of the winners have been wrapping themselves in their flags
- - literally.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
>
>>
>> The flag code does not have the force of law.
>>
>
>Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in the
>US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal criticism,
>cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal thrashing.
>Out there in the Heartland/Flyover states, especially in rural areas and
>small town public gatherings, the principle which allows one not to observe
>the flag code often gives way to a harsher reality of an intolerant
>populace.
Your point being, what? There are a great many things one can do
that are not illegal but which will bring disapproval from
others.
>Taking your hat off for the pregame prayer is also recommended.
I suggest you not go to these events.
>I'm interested at the choice of many US athletes, mostly men
>(appropriately, I believe, "uncovering" as it were) to hold the laurel
>wreath over their hearts during the Anthem. The traditional ancient salute
>was probably to hold it extended at arm's length in the right hand.
>While one could hardly applaud the musical capacity of the US women who
>play soccer and sing loudly, their commitment to trying to sing and joy of
>the moment were appealing. Whenever I see Olympic winners actually singing
>or otherwise enraptured by their national anthems, I'm always reminded that
>that's what Beethoven may have meant by "Ode to Joy".
Schiller wrote "ode to Joy"; Beethoven set it to music.
>I note that the
>Greek winners seem fully as jingoistic as any of the USAians (most of whom
>have acted other than 'Merkinish).
Most of the winners have been wrapping themselves in their flags
- - literally.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Aug 27th 2004, 7:04 am
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:05:45 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Olivers <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>> Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
>>> The flag code does not have the force of law.
>> Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in
>> the US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal
>> criticism, cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal
>> thrashing.
>Would they treat a visible foreigner that way too? I mean the USA aren't
>my country, it would be ridiculous if I posed like that to a foreign
>country's anthem.
>> Taking your hat off for the pregame prayer is also recommended.
>What if I'm agnostic and tell everyone in advance?
Im many parts of America that would be even worse.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Olivers <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>> Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
>>> The flag code does not have the force of law.
>> Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in
>> the US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal
>> criticism, cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal
>> thrashing.
>Would they treat a visible foreigner that way too? I mean the USA aren't
>my country, it would be ridiculous if I posed like that to a foreign
>country's anthem.
>> Taking your hat off for the pregame prayer is also recommended.
>What if I'm agnostic and tell everyone in advance?
Im many parts of America that would be even worse.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Aug 27th 2004, 7:05 am
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
Olivers <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
>> The flag code does not have the force of law.
> Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in
> the US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal
> criticism, cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal
> thrashing.
Would they treat a visible foreigner that way too? I mean the USA aren't
my country, it would be ridiculous if I posed like that to a foreign
country's anthem.
> Taking your hat off for the pregame prayer is also recommended.
What if I'm agnostic and tell everyone in advance?
Regards
--
don't you
want want
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
news:[email protected]:
> Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
>> The flag code does not have the force of law.
> Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in
> the US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal
> criticism, cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal
> thrashing.
Would they treat a visible foreigner that way too? I mean the USA aren't
my country, it would be ridiculous if I posed like that to a foreign
country's anthem.
> Taking your hat off for the pregame prayer is also recommended.
What if I'm agnostic and tell everyone in advance?
Regards
--
don't you
want want
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
Aug 27th 2004, 7:09 am
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:43:24 -0500, jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
>I used to go to the movies in Canada and always stood when their
>national anthem was played before the show -- a minimal sense of
>civility is indicated when a guest in someone else's country
When I lived in Canada in the mid-1960s they played "O Canada"
and "God Save the Queen" after the last movie. Friends visiting
from the States who had gone to a movie remarked how easy it was
to exit since everyone was just standing there.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
>I used to go to the movies in Canada and always stood when their
>national anthem was played before the show -- a minimal sense of
>civility is indicated when a guest in someone else's country
When I lived in Canada in the mid-1960s they played "O Canada"
and "God Save the Queen" after the last movie. Friends visiting
from the States who had gone to a movie remarked how easy it was
to exit since everyone was just standing there.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Aug 27th 2004, 7:19 am
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:41:48 -0500, jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hatunen wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:23:44 GMT, "geotek" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Icono Clast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected] e.com...
>>>>Go Fig wrote:
>>>>>For a U.S. Citizen, placing your hand over the heart is part of the
>>>>>official code.
>>>>It is? Can you cite it? I always put my hands behind my back as the
>>>>national anthem of the USA is too violent and godly for me to honor.
>>>>It fits the current Administration well.
>>>It fit past administrations well, also. It described the birth of the
>>>United States well, too. Perhaps you should try to stick one thumb up you
>>>arse, and one thumb in your mouth. Switch hands periodically, while you
>>>curl in the fetal position.
>>>geotek
>>
>>
>> There are many of us who would prefer that "America the Beutiful"
>> be the ntional anthem.
>and even more pathetic and mediocre and derivative song than the one now
>used
The lyrics have considerably more meaning for me than some
off-the-cuff doggerel about a battle at Fort McHenry set to the
tune of an old drinking son.
Besides, national anthems are supposed to be pathetic, mediocre
and derivative. On National Public Radio the other day a
commentator played parts of a number of national anthems to show
how similar the tunes were.
And the words... Take a look at the words to "Oh, Canada"
sometime. Or "Advance Australia Fair".
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
>Hatunen wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:23:44 GMT, "geotek" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Icono Clast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected] e.com...
>>>>Go Fig wrote:
>>>>>For a U.S. Citizen, placing your hand over the heart is part of the
>>>>>official code.
>>>>It is? Can you cite it? I always put my hands behind my back as the
>>>>national anthem of the USA is too violent and godly for me to honor.
>>>>It fits the current Administration well.
>>>It fit past administrations well, also. It described the birth of the
>>>United States well, too. Perhaps you should try to stick one thumb up you
>>>arse, and one thumb in your mouth. Switch hands periodically, while you
>>>curl in the fetal position.
>>>geotek
>>
>>
>> There are many of us who would prefer that "America the Beutiful"
>> be the ntional anthem.
>and even more pathetic and mediocre and derivative song than the one now
>used
The lyrics have considerably more meaning for me than some
off-the-cuff doggerel about a battle at Fort McHenry set to the
tune of an old drinking son.
Besides, national anthems are supposed to be pathetic, mediocre
and derivative. On National Public Radio the other day a
commentator played parts of a number of national anthems to show
how similar the tunes were.
And the words... Take a look at the words to "Oh, Canada"
sometime. Or "Advance Australia Fair".
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Aug 27th 2004, 7:41 am
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
Wolfgang Schwanke extrapolated from data available...
> Olivers <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
>
>>> The flag code does not have the force of law.
>
>> Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in
>> the US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal
>> criticism, cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal
>> thrashing.
>
> Would they treat a visible foreigner that way too? I mean the USA aren't
> my country, it would be ridiculous if I posed like that to a foreign
> country's anthem.
No, but they would expect you to stand, just as when in Germany, when an
anthem, once anathema to USAians, is played, attending USAians are supposed
to "stillstand", IIRC. Standing, uncovered, for the national anthems of
foreign countries is considered tasteful and appropriate and a good way to
avoid conflict. Shucks, with two major league baseball teams in Canada,
we've even gotten used to standing for at least one "foreign" anthem, and
many folks actually recognize the tune and opening line. Of course, in
some US states, you're expected to stand for the state song and at sporting
events the "alma mater" of both universities/colleges involved (also
applicable to high school contests).
Unlike the British practice of my youth (and maybe still), in the US, the
Anthem is rarely played in theaters, but still resounds from some drive in
movie screens. Some other tunes are normally "standing music", including
our version of the GSTQ, "God Bless America", and in some locales public
sentiment still calls for standing for "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"
and/or "Dixie".
One of the customs of NATO involved the tradition that naval vessels
calling in the port of another NATO member would at morning "Quarters" play
the host country's national anthem along with their own, with crews
mustered at attention.
>
>> Taking your hat off for the pregame prayer is also recommended.
>
> What if I'm agnostic and tell everyone in advance?
They would still expect you to take off your hat. Now were you of a faith
which follows rhe custom of keeping a hat on while praying, you'd get to
keep it on. With scores of denominations, even some hat wearing
Christaians, and all sorts of varied religions, USAians in the Heartland
are more intolerant of lack of observation than the variety thereof.
> Olivers <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Hatunen extrapolated from data available...
>
>>> The flag code does not have the force of law.
>
>> Unfortunately for those who ignore it, there are a number of venues in
>> the US where failure to comply so will bring opprobrium, loud vocal
>> criticism, cold sodas poured down your back, and the occasinal
>> thrashing.
>
> Would they treat a visible foreigner that way too? I mean the USA aren't
> my country, it would be ridiculous if I posed like that to a foreign
> country's anthem.
No, but they would expect you to stand, just as when in Germany, when an
anthem, once anathema to USAians, is played, attending USAians are supposed
to "stillstand", IIRC. Standing, uncovered, for the national anthems of
foreign countries is considered tasteful and appropriate and a good way to
avoid conflict. Shucks, with two major league baseball teams in Canada,
we've even gotten used to standing for at least one "foreign" anthem, and
many folks actually recognize the tune and opening line. Of course, in
some US states, you're expected to stand for the state song and at sporting
events the "alma mater" of both universities/colleges involved (also
applicable to high school contests).
Unlike the British practice of my youth (and maybe still), in the US, the
Anthem is rarely played in theaters, but still resounds from some drive in
movie screens. Some other tunes are normally "standing music", including
our version of the GSTQ, "God Bless America", and in some locales public
sentiment still calls for standing for "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"
and/or "Dixie".
One of the customs of NATO involved the tradition that naval vessels
calling in the port of another NATO member would at morning "Quarters" play
the host country's national anthem along with their own, with crews
mustered at attention.
>
>> Taking your hat off for the pregame prayer is also recommended.
>
> What if I'm agnostic and tell everyone in advance?
They would still expect you to take off your hat. Now were you of a faith
which follows rhe custom of keeping a hat on while praying, you'd get to
keep it on. With scores of denominations, even some hat wearing
Christaians, and all sorts of varied religions, USAians in the Heartland
are more intolerant of lack of observation than the variety thereof.
Aug 27th 2004, 7:41 am
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
Hatunen wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:23:44 GMT, "geotek" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>"Icono Clast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected] .com...
>>>Go Fig wrote:
>>>>For a U.S. Citizen, placing your hand over the heart is part of the
>>>>official code.
>>>It is? Can you cite it? I always put my hands behind my back as the
>>>national anthem of the USA is too violent and godly for me to honor.
>>>It fits the current Administration well.
>>It fit past administrations well, also. It described the birth of the
>>United States well, too. Perhaps you should try to stick one thumb up you
>>arse, and one thumb in your mouth. Switch hands periodically, while you
>>curl in the fetal position.
>>geotek
>
>
> There are many of us who would prefer that "America the Beutiful"
> be the ntional anthem.
and even more pathetic and mediocre and derivative song than the one now
used
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:23:44 GMT, "geotek" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>"Icono Clast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected] .com...
>>>Go Fig wrote:
>>>>For a U.S. Citizen, placing your hand over the heart is part of the
>>>>official code.
>>>It is? Can you cite it? I always put my hands behind my back as the
>>>national anthem of the USA is too violent and godly for me to honor.
>>>It fits the current Administration well.
>>It fit past administrations well, also. It described the birth of the
>>United States well, too. Perhaps you should try to stick one thumb up you
>>arse, and one thumb in your mouth. Switch hands periodically, while you
>>curl in the fetal position.
>>geotek
>
>
> There are many of us who would prefer that "America the Beutiful"
> be the ntional anthem.
and even more pathetic and mediocre and derivative song than the one now
used
Aug 27th 2004, 7:43 am
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Olivers writes:
>
>
>>Well that you should preserve expatriate status.
>
>
> I did it in the U.S.
>
>
>>In substantial portions of the US, public gatherings may be
>>filled with terribly intolerant folk unlikely to be troubled
>>by the concept of your right of personal choice.
>
>
> I don't care if it troubles them or not. If they have that severe a
> case of intolerance, perhaps _they_ should move to a country with fewer
> freedoms.
>
>
>>On the other hand, I suspect that even were you in the US, it's unlikely
>>that you would show up for many occasions when the Anthem is performed.
>
>
> I had to attend school, and we were subjected to it regularly. And I
> remained seated.
>
I used to go to the movies in Canada and always stood when their
national anthem was played before the show -- a minimal sense of
civility is indicated when a guest in someone else's country
> Olivers writes:
>
>
>>Well that you should preserve expatriate status.
>
>
> I did it in the U.S.
>
>
>>In substantial portions of the US, public gatherings may be
>>filled with terribly intolerant folk unlikely to be troubled
>>by the concept of your right of personal choice.
>
>
> I don't care if it troubles them or not. If they have that severe a
> case of intolerance, perhaps _they_ should move to a country with fewer
> freedoms.
>
>
>>On the other hand, I suspect that even were you in the US, it's unlikely
>>that you would show up for many occasions when the Anthem is performed.
>
>
> I had to attend school, and we were subjected to it regularly. And I
> remained seated.
>
I used to go to the movies in Canada and always stood when their
national anthem was played before the show -- a minimal sense of
civility is indicated when a guest in someone else's country
Aug 27th 2004, 7:47 am
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
Mxsmanic extrapolated from data available...
Olivers said...
>
>> On the other hand, I suspect that even were you in the US, it's
>> unlikely that you would show up for many occasions when the Anthem is
>> performed.
>
> I had to attend school, and we were subjected to it regularly. And I
> remained seated.
>
Fortunately for you, you were not in a School District in which the level
of peer pressure did not exceed premissive local practice. I can't imagine
any school district nearby in which one could remain seated during the
national Anthem and long enjoy the nenfits of good health. Kids are far
crueler than adults and less likely to consider the accountability of their
actions.
Let's face it. Were you sitting out on the Champs D'Elysee on Bastille Day
during the ceremonies and the band struck up the French Anthem, do you not
expect that some among the French might be offended, yea, even so offended
as to respond.
TMO
Olivers said...
>
>> On the other hand, I suspect that even were you in the US, it's
>> unlikely that you would show up for many occasions when the Anthem is
>> performed.
>
> I had to attend school, and we were subjected to it regularly. And I
> remained seated.
>
Fortunately for you, you were not in a School District in which the level
of peer pressure did not exceed premissive local practice. I can't imagine
any school district nearby in which one could remain seated during the
national Anthem and long enjoy the nenfits of good health. Kids are far
crueler than adults and less likely to consider the accountability of their
actions.
Let's face it. Were you sitting out on the Champs D'Elysee on Bastille Day
during the ceremonies and the band struck up the French Anthem, do you not
expect that some among the French might be offended, yea, even so offended
as to respond.
TMO
Aug 27th 2004, 8:11 am
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Well, the Italian president is insisting with Italian sportsmen, since
> > several years, that the Italian anthem should be sung together with the
> > band. This panicked a lot of them who do not know the words.
>
> That little ditty has words?
A lot of them, six or seven strophes. Usually only the first one is
sung.
--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)
> > Well, the Italian president is insisting with Italian sportsmen, since
> > several years, that the Italian anthem should be sung together with the
> > band. This panicked a lot of them who do not know the words.
>
> That little ditty has words?
A lot of them, six or seven strophes. Usually only the first one is
sung.
--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)
Aug 27th 2004, 8:14 am
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:48:28 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... Greece is still part of the Third World.
Better read this than be illiterate or blind, huh ?
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... Greece is still part of the Third World.
Better read this than be illiterate or blind, huh ?
Aug 27th 2004, 8:14 am
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
Olivers <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Let's face it. Were you sitting out on the Champs D'Elysee on
> Bastille Day during the ceremonies and the band struck up the French
> Anthem, do you not expect that some among the French might be
> offended, yea, even so offended as to respond.
No
--
don't you
want want
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
news:[email protected]:
> Let's face it. Were you sitting out on the Champs D'Elysee on
> Bastille Day during the ceremonies and the band struck up the French
> Anthem, do you not expect that some among the French might be
> offended, yea, even so offended as to respond.
No
--
don't you
want want
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
Aug 27th 2004, 8:18 am
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
"Icono Clast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] om...
> Go Fig wrote:
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Remembering Ronald Reagan: Let Us Remember Lest We Forget
> http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/rReagan.html#
who seems to have lived to the grand age of: minus 7
tim
news:[email protected] om...
> Go Fig wrote:
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Remembering Ronald Reagan: Let Us Remember Lest We Forget
> http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/rReagan.html#
who seems to have lived to the grand age of: minus 7
tim
Aug 27th 2004, 8:40 am
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: National Anthem Traditions?
"D.A.L." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > For a U.S. Citizen, placing your hand over the heart is part of the
> > official code.
> >
>
> And I thought the official code of the US was to stick your nose in
> everywhere, even where you're not wanted.
The United States has the world's largest nose. Some people like it
because it brings prosperity. - Modern Chinese Metaphore
> > For a U.S. Citizen, placing your hand over the heart is part of the
> > official code.
> >
>
> And I thought the official code of the US was to stick your nose in
> everywhere, even where you're not wanted.
The United States has the world's largest nose. Some people like it
because it brings prosperity. - Modern Chinese Metaphore
