Hatunen

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:13:14 +0000 (UTC),
[email protected] wrote:

    >In article ,
    >[email protected] (Christer) wrote:
    >> This is what happened to me and my wife last week in Paris. We still
    >> do not understand what really happened. On Champs Elysées two Asian
    >> ladies came up to us. They seemed to be about 30 years old and looked
    >> "normal". They explained that they had just bought a lady wallet in a
    >> shop called Verges close to where we were. They wanted to have two
    >> wallets, but the shop would only sell one because of some limitation.
    >> So now they wanted us to go into this shop and buy another one for
    >> them. They had already tried to go back but were refused to buy one
    >> more. We said okay, we will help you.
    >As you say, very strange. I can only think that the shop was trying to
    >prevent people buying large quantities and reselling them in another
    >country where the price is higher. It is possible YSL imposes such
    >restrictions on the shop.

I believe there has been a problem (if such it really be)in the
past with Asians coming to Paris and buying up large quantities
of such classy items and then setting up what amounts to a black,
or at least grey, market in them in Asia.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:33:59 GMT, "Adrian Rothery"
wrote:

    >"Christer" wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> 1 The money was false. This was a way of turning the money into
    >> something legal.
    >> 2 Money laundry.
    >> 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    >> these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    >> that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
    >> Christer Hagström
    >> Sweden
    >Not being in the business :-) aren't 1 and 2 the same thing?

NO. The first involves counterfeit currency and the second
illegally gained real currency.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Christer

This is what happened to me and my wife last week in Paris. We still
do not understand what really happened. On Champs Elysées two Asian
ladies came up to us. They seemed to be about 30 years old and looked
"normal". They explained that they had just bought a lady wallet in a
shop called Verges close to where we were. They wanted to have two
wallets, but the shop would only sell one because of some limitation.
So now they wanted us to go into this shop and buy another one for
them. They had already tried to go back but were refused to buy one
more. We said okay, we will help you.

Then one of the ladies took out about 800 Euros out of her bag,
handed it over to us and said: I would like to have two, please! I
starred at her. Now I became suspicious. Even more so, when the ladies
did not even want to go with us. This was weird! We could just walk
away with 800 Euros in our pocket and disappear in central Paris. Why
would they trust us? My thought was to cancel the whole thing, but the
Asian ladies were very persistant.

- Please! So off we went and the ladies did not follow. As far as I
could see nobody elese did either. We had no plans to fool them and we
went straight to the shop. Before we went in, I said to my wife:
- Maybe they gave us false money. I had another look at the money. It
looked quite normal. There must be something very wrong.
Verges proved to be a very expensive shop. I had just spilled some
coffee on my shorts and felt like an alien standing there among much
more beautifully dressed and richer people. This shop belonged to an
other world. I pointed at one of the wallets and asked:
- How much is that one?
- 300 Euros
- I´ll have two then.
I listened to my own voice. Here I was, looking like a tramp,
prepared to spend a fortune on two small wallets. I´ll have two then!
- Sorry sir but we will only sell you one. The fact that you are a
pair means we consider you as one.
-Why won´t you sell two? I asked.
-Well, it´s our policy and besides we have some troubles with Asian
people, who send in tourists to buy these.

Then she added something I did not get, about money. I still could
not understand. So what? If I had a shop I would gladly sell every
wallet people would like to buy and I would not give a damn whether
the customers were Asian or Swedish. and at those prices.. As soon as
she started talking about Asians we decided to back off. So we said
that we would come back later in the afternoon. Then we went back to
the place where we had met the Asian ladies. I noticed that an other
Asian lady tried to see what was going on with some other people
walking towards the Verges shop. She had a hand bag of the same brand,
Yves Saint Laurent. It took a minute or two for us to find the ladies.
I got the impression that they were very careful not to bee seen, but
eventually they came up to us. One of them said thanks, but I told
them that the shop would not sell any wallets to us.
-Okay, she said and did not sound very surprised.
We gave back the 800 Euros and walked away, very very puzzled.

I still do not understand why all this happened. I have come up with
three theories.

1 The money was false. This was a way of turning the money into
something legal.
2 Money laundry.
3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.

But...

Number one; Handling false money is a very serious crime. Too risky
even for the Asian ladies. Since the shop assistant knew about the
Asians it does not make sense.
Number two; Yes, but how???
Number three; Would make sense, but why would YVS make such a
limitation?

Have you ever heard about this? Any theories? What would have
happened if we had bought the two wallets for them? Would they have
asked for the additional 200 Euros back? I doubt they would have asked
for any receipts. What would have happened if we had just taken the
money and walked away? I thing about this every day. The whole thing
does not make sense. Please help me to understand what is going on
there. I guess those Asian normal looking ladies are still standing
there on Champs Elysées trying to send in tourists in Verges buying
wallets from YSL.

Christer Hagström
Sweden

barney

In article ,
[email protected] (Christer) wrote:

    > This is what happened to me and my wife last week in Paris. We still
    > do not understand what really happened. On Champs Elysées two Asian
    > ladies came up to us. They seemed to be about 30 years old and looked
    > "normal". They explained that they had just bought a lady wallet in a
    > shop called Verges close to where we were. They wanted to have two
    > wallets, but the shop would only sell one because of some limitation.
    > So now they wanted us to go into this shop and buy another one for
    > them. They had already tried to go back but were refused to buy one
    > more. We said okay, we will help you.



As you say, very strange. I can only think that the shop was trying to
prevent people buying large quantities and reselling them in another
country where the price is higher. It is possible YSL imposes such
restrictions on the shop.

I have encountered a similar thing buying Levi's jeans during sales in the
U.S., where they are much cheaper than in Britain. I think the limit there
was about four pairs per person. I guess you might want four pairs of
identical jeans, but not many people would want more than one wallet of
the same design.

Leek

In article ,
[email protected] (Christer) wrote:

    > This is what happened to me and my wife last week in Paris. We still
    > do not understand what really happened. On Champs Elysées two Asian
    > ladies came up to us. They seemed to be about 30 years old and looked
    > "normal". They explained that they had just bought a lady wallet in a
    > shop called Verges close to where we were. They wanted to have two
    > wallets, but the shop would only sell one because of some limitation.
    > So now they wanted us to go into this shop and buy another one for
    > them. They had already tried to go back but were refused to buy one
    > more. We said okay, we will help you.
[snip]
    > I still do not understand why all this happened. I have come up with
    > three theories.
    >
    > 1 The money was false. This was a way of turning the money into
    > something legal.
    > 2 Money laundry.
    > 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    > these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    > that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.

It is number Three, sort of. Apparently the items sell for much more
money in Asian stores, so some people make their living going to Europe,
buying the items, then going home and selling them for more than they
paid, but less than the stores in Asia charge.

Adrian Rothery

"Christer" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > 1 The money was false. This was a way of turning the money into
    > something legal.
    > 2 Money laundry.
    > 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    > these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    > that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
    > Christer Hagström
    > Sweden

Not being in the business :-) aren't 1 and 2 the same thing?

Adrian.

Cb

Another one of those "conspiracy theory" posts that makes a good read but is
really not that unusual. It's very common to limit the quantities that you
can buy and I experienced this same restriction at the Louis Vuitton shop on
the Champs Elysees. When I went there a few years ago, it was just
absolutely packed with Asian, probably Japanese, and there were limits on
some items. I did find that the prices at that store was about 20% cheaper
than othe LV stores I had checked out in Munich, Brussel, Amsterdam and a
few other places and so limiting the quantities probably points to theory
number (3). The other things about counterfeits and laundering are things
that happen in the movies. I did find it weird however, that they would
trust a stranger with 800 Euros. Maybe you have an "honest face" and they
were right because you did return the money

"Christer" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > This is what happened to me and my wife last week in Paris. We still
    > do not understand what really happened. On Champs Elysées two Asian
    > ladies came up to us. They seemed to be about 30 years old and looked
    > "normal". They explained that they had just bought a lady wallet in a
    > shop called Verges close to where we were. They wanted to have two
    > wallets, but the shop would only sell one because of some limitation.
    > So now they wanted us to go into this shop and buy another one for
    > them. They had already tried to go back but were refused to buy one
    > more. We said okay, we will help you.
    > Then one of the ladies took out about 800 Euros out of her bag,
    > handed it over to us and said: I would like to have two, please! I
    > starred at her. Now I became suspicious. Even more so, when the ladies
    > did not even want to go with us. This was weird! We could just walk
    > away with 800 Euros in our pocket and disappear in central Paris. Why
    > would they trust us? My thought was to cancel the whole thing, but the
    > Asian ladies were very persistant.
    > - Please! So off we went and the ladies did not follow. As far as I
    > could see nobody elese did either. We had no plans to fool them and we
    > went straight to the shop. Before we went in, I said to my wife:
    > - Maybe they gave us false money. I had another look at the money. It
    > looked quite normal. There must be something very wrong.
    > Verges proved to be a very expensive shop. I had just spilled some
    > coffee on my shorts and felt like an alien standing there among much
    > more beautifully dressed and richer people. This shop belonged to an
    > other world. I pointed at one of the wallets and asked:
    > - How much is that one?
    > - 300 Euros
    > - I´ll have two then.
    > I listened to my own voice. Here I was, looking like a tramp,
    > prepared to spend a fortune on two small wallets. I´ll have two then!
    > - Sorry sir but we will only sell you one. The fact that you are a
    > pair means we consider you as one.
    > -Why won´t you sell two? I asked.
    > -Well, it´s our policy and besides we have some troubles with Asian
    > people, who send in tourists to buy these.
    > Then she added something I did not get, about money. I still could
    > not understand. So what? If I had a shop I would gladly sell every
    > wallet people would like to buy and I would not give a damn whether
    > the customers were Asian or Swedish. and at those prices.. As soon as
    > she started talking about Asians we decided to back off. So we said
    > that we would come back later in the afternoon. Then we went back to
    > the place where we had met the Asian ladies. I noticed that an other
    > Asian lady tried to see what was going on with some other people
    > walking towards the Verges shop. She had a hand bag of the same brand,
    > Yves Saint Laurent. It took a minute or two for us to find the ladies.
    > I got the impression that they were very careful not to bee seen, but
    > eventually they came up to us. One of them said thanks, but I told
    > them that the shop would not sell any wallets to us.
    > -Okay, she said and did not sound very surprised.
    > We gave back the 800 Euros and walked away, very very puzzled.
    > I still do not understand why all this happened. I have come up with
    > three theories.
    > 1 The money was false. This was a way of turning the money into
    > something legal.
    > 2 Money laundry.
    > 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    > these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    > that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
    > But...
    > Number one; Handling false money is a very serious crime. Too risky
    > even for the Asian ladies. Since the shop assistant knew about the
    > Asians it does not make sense.
    > Number two; Yes, but how???
    > Number three; Would make sense, but why would YVS make such a
    > limitation?
    > Have you ever heard about this? Any theories? What would have
    > happened if we had bought the two wallets for them? Would they have
    > asked for the additional 200 Euros back? I doubt they would have asked
    > for any receipts. What would have happened if we had just taken the
    > money and walked away? I thing about this every day. The whole thing
    > does not make sense. Please help me to understand what is going on
    > there. I guess those Asian normal looking ladies are still standing
    > there on Champs Elysées trying to send in tourists in Verges buying
    > wallets from YSL.
    > Christer Hagström
    > Sweden

Jenn

In article ,
"Adrian Rothery" wrote:

    > "Christer" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > 1 The money was false. This was a way of turning the money into
    > > something legal.
    > > 2 Money laundry.
    > > 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    > > these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    > > that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
    > >
    > >
    > > Christer Hagström
    > > Sweden
    >
    > Not being in the business :-) aren't 1 and 2 the same thing?
    >
    > Adrian.
    >
    >
    >

well no -- one involves counterfeit money, the other illicit money

Dave Smith

Adrian Rothery wrote:

    > Not being in the business :-) aren't 1 and 2 the same thing?

No. Money laundering is not the same as passing counterfeit money, though
they are usually related. Money laundering involves removing the trail of
money "earned" through criminal activities.

Michelle

!!!!!! Exactly the same thing happened to people i know years ago!!!
Seems like it 's still happening.
Hm they had an exlanation when they told me, but i can't remember now ...


"Christer" schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > This is what happened to me and my wife last week in Paris. We still
    > do not understand what really happened. On Champs Elysées two Asian
    > ladies came up to us. They seemed to be about 30 years old and looked
    > "normal". They explained that they had just bought a lady wallet in a
    > shop called Verges close to where we were. They wanted to have two
    > wallets, but the shop would only sell one because of some limitation.
    > So now they wanted us to go into this shop and buy another one for
    > them. They had already tried to go back but were refused to buy one
    > more. We said okay, we will help you.
    > Then one of the ladies took out about 800 Euros out of her bag,
    > handed it over to us and said: I would like to have two, please! I
    > starred at her. Now I us. This was weird! We could just walk
    > away with 800 Euros in obecame suspicious. Even more so, when the ladies
    > did not even want to go with ur pocket and disappear in central Paris. Why
    > would they trust us? My thought was to cancel the whole thing, but the
    > Asian ladies were very persistant.
    > - Please! So off we went and the ladies did not follow. As far as I
    > could see nobody elese did either. We had no plans to fool them and we
    > went straight to the shop. Before we went in, I said to my wife:
    > - Maybe they gave us false money. I had another look at the money. It
    > looked quite normal. There must be something very wrong.
    > Verges proved to be a very expensive shop. I had just spilled some
    > coffee on my shorts and felt like an alien standing there among much
    > more beautifully dressed and richer people. This shop belonged to an
    > other world. I pointed at one of the wallets and asked:
    > - How much is that one?
    > - 300 Euros
    > - I´ll have two then.
    > I listened to my own voice. Here I was, looking like a tramp,
    > prepared to spend a fortune on two small wallets. I´ll have two then!
    > - Sorry sir but we will only sell you one. The fact that you are a
    > pair means we consider you as one.
    > -Why won´t you sell two? I asked.
    > -Well, it´s our policy and besides we have some troubles with Asian
    > people, who send in tourists to buy these.
    > Then she added something I did not get, about money. I still could
    > not understand. So what? If I had a shop I would gladly sell every
    > wallet people would like to buy and I would not give a damn whether
    > the customers were Asian or Swedish. and at those prices.. As soon as
    > she started talking about Asians we decided to back off. So we said
    > that we would come back later in the afternoon. Then we went back to
    > the place where we had met the Asian ladies. I noticed that an other
    > Asian lady tried to see what was going on with some other people
    > walking towards the Verges shop. She had a hand bag of the same brand,
    > Yves Saint Laurent. It took a minute or two for us to find the ladies.
    > I got the impression that they were very careful not to bee seen, but
    > eventually they came up to us. One of them said thanks, but I told
    > them that the shop would not sell any wallets to us.
    > -Okay, she said and did not sound very surprised.
    > We gave back the 800 Euros and walked away, very very puzzled.
    > I still do not understand why all this happened. I have come up with
    > three theories.
    > 1 The money was false. This was a way of turning the money into
    > something legal.
    > 2 Money laundry.
    > 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    > these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    > that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
    > But...
    > Number one; Handling false money is a very serious crime. Too risky
    > even for the Asian ladies. Since the shop assistant knew about the
    > Asians it does not make sense.
    > Number two; Yes, but how???
    > Number three; Would make sense, but why would YVS make such a
    > limitation?
    > Have you ever heard about this? Any theories? What would have
    > happened if we had bought the two wallets for them? Would they have
    > asked for the additional 200 Euros back? I doubt they would have asked
    > for any receipts. What would have happened if we had just taken the
    > money and walked away? I thing about this every day. The whole thing
    > does not make sense. Please help me to understand what is going on
    > there. I guess those Asian normal looking ladies are still standing
    > there on Champs Elysées trying to send in tourists in Verges buying
    > wallets from YSL.
    > Christer Hagström
    > Sweden

Lennart Petersen

"Christer" skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    > these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    > that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
As I can remember we've seen that story or something similar before.
1:The company have a good market in Japan selling their products at very
high prices.
2: They've a not so good ,but nevertheless profitable market in Paris.
3: They want to prevent Japanese tourists from buying home such products.
As Japanese tourists are well-known to be somewhat naive and believe anyone
they think they can trust I think this story is true and they were bona fide
customers.
Nevertheless I wouldn't personally want to be involved in such transactions
with money in the street. Who knows, perhaps it's the next trick cheating
tourists in the street ?
I.P

Rega

that's for the underground market in Japan, not againts you.

Wolfgang Schwanke

leek wrote in news:katman-
[email protected]:

    >> 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    >> these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    >> that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
    >
    > It is number Three, sort of. Apparently the items sell for much more
    > money in Asian stores, so some people make their living going to Europe,
    > buying the items, then going home and selling them for more than they
    > paid, but less than the stores in Asia charge.

That's called trade. Assuming it's true, there's nothing illegal or immoral
about making a living of trading goods. The shop who sells the bags do it
themselves. Why should they even care what the Asian ladies do with the
bags? Shouldn't the shop be happy to sell more?

Regards

--
Jetzt kommt das Wirtschaftswunder

Frank Lynch

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:11:29 +0200, in a clarity of expression
resembling Cicero, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

    >leek wrote in news:katman-
    >[email protected]:
    >>> 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    >>> these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    >>> that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
    >>
    >> It is number Three, sort of. Apparently the items sell for much more
    >> money in Asian stores, so some people make their living going to Europe,
    >> buying the items, then going home and selling them for more than they
    >> paid, but less than the stores in Asia charge.
    >That's called trade. Assuming it's true, there's nothing illegal or immoral
    >about making a living of trading goods. The shop who sells the bags do it
    >themselves. Why should they even care what the Asian ladies do with the
    >bags? Shouldn't the shop be happy to sell more?

The manufacturer has an interest in maintaining its distribution in
Japan, and that may require them to pressure on the French stores to
limit the quantities. The store may get compensation in exchange, such
as a lower price than others in the city, or co-op advertising
funds...

Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/

barney

In article , [email protected]
(Wolfgang Schwanke) wrote:

    > leek wrote in news:katman-
    > [email protected]:
    >
    > >> 3 Let us say that these ladies were from Japan. Let us also say that
    > >> these very exclusive wallets would sell for 1000 Euros in Japan and
    > >> that YSL had decided to sell them in Paris only. You get the rest.
    > >
    > > It is number Three, sort of. Apparently the items sell for much more
    > > money in Asian stores, so some people make their living going to
    > > Europe, buying the items, then going home and selling them for more
    > > than they paid, but less than the stores in Asia charge.
    >
    > That's called trade. Assuming it's true, there's nothing illegal or
    > immoral about making a living of trading goods. The shop who sells the
    > bags do it themselves. Why should they even care what the Asian ladies
    > do with the bags? Shouldn't the shop be happy to sell more?

The manufacturer, in this case YSL, may only supply the shop on condition
that it does not sell the bags to people who are going to resell them.

If YSL found out that the shop was selling large quantities of bags that
ended up in Asian markets, it might refuse to supply this Parisian shop
any longer, because YSL wants to keep the high-priced Asian market for
itself!

Note, I don't *know* that this is happening in this particular case, but
it does happen.