Meeting the locals
Jun 4th 2003, 7:21 am
#31
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Re: Meeting the locals
The Reid writes:
> Or perhaps visitors to London are not really
> interested in finding good food.
Perhaps they know what an exercise in futility that can be!
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Or perhaps visitors to London are not really
> interested in finding good food.
Perhaps they know what an exercise in futility that can be!
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 4th 2003, 7:51 am
#32
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Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Luca Logi writes:
> I almost like more being in a business trip then
> in a tourist travel, as you get to actually *work*
> with locals.
Only a subset of locals, usually. They are locals who are trained or
accustomed to working with foreigners. You never see the rest of the
locals.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> I almost like more being in a business trip then
> in a tourist travel, as you get to actually *work*
> with locals.
Only a subset of locals, usually. They are locals who are trained or
accustomed to working with foreigners. You never see the rest of the
locals.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 4th 2003, 7:57 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Wow! Big response!
It seems most people suggested talking to people and knowing the language. I
speak four languages (plus various incomprehensible combinations of those
) and talk to people whenever I have the chance. Yet, I do not feel like I
"met the locals". Maybe my definition is more demanding. Talking to the
locals is mostly superficial and one learns very little about the country
you are in (or maybe I just don't know how to listen well). Some suggested
going to various clubs/groups which have same interests as you. Yet a single
visit is hardly enough. Once you keep in touch with the people you meet and
you visit again and again, can you say that you know how the country
breathes. Striking up conversations is definitely not sufficient (imho).
Avoiding touristy places is definitely a must - a castle is a castle is a
castle after a while. But if we all avoid touristy places, then those will
be the places to go to, as no-one will go there any more (one can only
hope).
This is what I do... I read local papers (regardless of language - I read
Thai papers (which is all Greek to me, but just by looking at pictures,
one can learn what local people are worried about, what makes them excited,
etc.). I also avoid tourist restaurants like the plague. My favorite is
being stopped on the street by other tourist and being asked about
directions or information. However, one learns most from foreigners around
you (easy in some countries, hard in the other). What I know about certain
countries, I learned from "local" foreigners.
Now when I think about it, I think I might have phrased the initial question
wrong. I didn't mean how do you meet locals physically, but rather what it
means to meet a local. Maybe I'm trying to get too much out of my visits. My
claim is that one cannot know the local ways without living there (or
spending extensive periods there). In one visit, one cannot learn much about
the country and the people and why do they think the way they do. This topic
is a science, interdisciplinary at that. My worry is also that differences
are getting smaller and smaller and it leaves me sad that when I come
somewhere I see same things. Maybe I should go to Burkina Faso next...
Anyone been there?
Marko
It seems most people suggested talking to people and knowing the language. I
speak four languages (plus various incomprehensible combinations of those
) and talk to people whenever I have the chance. Yet, I do not feel like I"met the locals". Maybe my definition is more demanding. Talking to the
locals is mostly superficial and one learns very little about the country
you are in (or maybe I just don't know how to listen well). Some suggested
going to various clubs/groups which have same interests as you. Yet a single
visit is hardly enough. Once you keep in touch with the people you meet and
you visit again and again, can you say that you know how the country
breathes. Striking up conversations is definitely not sufficient (imho).
Avoiding touristy places is definitely a must - a castle is a castle is a
castle after a while. But if we all avoid touristy places, then those will
be the places to go to, as no-one will go there any more (one can only
hope
).This is what I do... I read local papers (regardless of language - I read
Thai papers (which is all Greek to me
, but just by looking at pictures,one can learn what local people are worried about, what makes them excited,
etc.). I also avoid tourist restaurants like the plague. My favorite is
being stopped on the street by other tourist and being asked about
directions or information. However, one learns most from foreigners around
you (easy in some countries, hard in the other). What I know about certain
countries, I learned from "local" foreigners.
Now when I think about it, I think I might have phrased the initial question
wrong. I didn't mean how do you meet locals physically, but rather what it
means to meet a local. Maybe I'm trying to get too much out of my visits. My
claim is that one cannot know the local ways without living there (or
spending extensive periods there). In one visit, one cannot learn much about
the country and the people and why do they think the way they do. This topic
is a science, interdisciplinary at that. My worry is also that differences
are getting smaller and smaller and it leaves me sad that when I come
somewhere I see same things. Maybe I should go to Burkina Faso next...
Anyone been there?
Marko
Jun 4th 2003, 8:01 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
But that should not be an issue. They are not in the tourist industry. They
are your equivalent abroad. They are what you want to know. What they do,
what they eat, is life easy or hard for them... You get my drift. But one
would hope you get over that initial business-only attitude. If you
cooperate with them for a longer period of time, I think this experience is
pretty damn near to living there.
Marko
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Luca Logi writes:
> > I almost like more being in a business trip then
> > in a tourist travel, as you get to actually *work*
> > with locals.
> Only a subset of locals, usually. They are locals who are trained or
> accustomed to working with foreigners. You never see the rest of the
> locals.
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
are your equivalent abroad. They are what you want to know. What they do,
what they eat, is life easy or hard for them... You get my drift. But one
would hope you get over that initial business-only attitude. If you
cooperate with them for a longer period of time, I think this experience is
pretty damn near to living there.
Marko
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Luca Logi writes:
> > I almost like more being in a business trip then
> > in a tourist travel, as you get to actually *work*
> > with locals.
> Only a subset of locals, usually. They are locals who are trained or
> accustomed to working with foreigners. You never see the rest of the
> locals.
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 4th 2003, 9:23 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
In article , Mxsmanic
writes
>The Reid writes:
>> Or perhaps visitors to London are not really
>> interested in finding good food.
>Perhaps they know what an exercise in futility that can be!
You really are behind the times. But then, you only eat in McDonald's
so how would you know?
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>The Reid writes:
>> Or perhaps visitors to London are not really
>> interested in finding good food.
>Perhaps they know what an exercise in futility that can be!
You really are behind the times. But then, you only eat in McDonald's
so how would you know?
--
Marie Lewis
Jun 4th 2003, 9:34 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Marko writes:
> But that should not be an issue.
But it is. People who deal a lot with foreigners are never
representative of the local population, by that very fact alone. Just
as expatriates are never representative of the locals in the country
from which they come--the typical locals never leave the country!
> They are your equivalent abroad.
Yup. And you are not representative of your own countrymen; if you
were, you wouldn't be abroad!
As a general rule, expatriates are just about the worst possible source
of information on how the locals feel in any country. Expatriates are
always the eccentrics, for better or for worse.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> But that should not be an issue.
But it is. People who deal a lot with foreigners are never
representative of the local population, by that very fact alone. Just
as expatriates are never representative of the locals in the country
from which they come--the typical locals never leave the country!
> They are your equivalent abroad.
Yup. And you are not representative of your own countrymen; if you
were, you wouldn't be abroad!
As a general rule, expatriates are just about the worst possible source
of information on how the locals feel in any country. Expatriates are
always the eccentrics, for better or for worse.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 4th 2003, 9:41 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Luca Logi writes:
>> I almost like more being in a business trip then in a tourist travel, as
>> you get to actually *work* with locals.
> Only a subset of locals, usually. They are locals who are trained or
> accustomed to working with foreigners. You never see the rest of the
> locals.
Nonsense. My work puts me side-by-side with locals all over and frequently
they don't even speak English, let alone hang out with foreigners all the
time.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> Luca Logi writes:
>> I almost like more being in a business trip then in a tourist travel, as
>> you get to actually *work* with locals.
> Only a subset of locals, usually. They are locals who are trained or
> accustomed to working with foreigners. You never see the rest of the
> locals.
Nonsense. My work puts me side-by-side with locals all over and frequently
they don't even speak English, let alone hang out with foreigners all the
time.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 4th 2003, 9:45 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Marko wrote:
> Maybe I should go to Burkina Faso next... Anyone been there?
Been to the border but not inside - visa hassles.
Assuming the adjacent areas are like the inside, then it's definitely not
Europe. In Africa, hitchhiking was a great way to meet people. We'd sit
side-by-side for many hours, stopping for meals, etc., so there was plenty
of chance to have conversations that went well beyond the superficial.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> Maybe I should go to Burkina Faso next... Anyone been there?
Been to the border but not inside - visa hassles.
Assuming the adjacent areas are like the inside, then it's definitely not
Europe. In Africa, hitchhiking was a great way to meet people. We'd sit
side-by-side for many hours, stopping for meals, etc., so there was plenty
of chance to have conversations that went well beyond the superficial.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 4th 2003, 10:06 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:43:15 GMT, Marko wrote
> Hello hello,
>
> I just read a post from a gentleman going to Spain who wants to
> avoid tourist destinations and meet the locals. Now, I have
> traveled more than majority of people and have been all over the
> world, but still have no idea what it means to "meet the locals".
-snip-
I agree with your point entirely.
The classic case goes something like: "I trekked off to this remote
part of the country; slept in the open; and met *real* people".
This must mean that the ones they met elsewhere on that trip live "less
real" lives than these ones -- they're just not as "real", somehow.
Which passes judgement on all those types, who have been deemed to be
"less real", since they live on rather than off the beaten track.
(So that poor bloody hotel receptionist -- on minimum wage -- who left
15 minutes early to pick up her kids from school because her husband's
broken his foot and has a doctor's appointment, isn't real. Hmmmm.)
It's so bleeding arrogant for tourists -- or travellers or whatever-
they-wish-to-call-themselves -- to define the "real-ness" of people in
the countries they visit on the basis of where that tourist happened to
encounter the person.
--
Cheers,
Harvey
For e-mail, change harvey to whhvs.
> Hello hello,
>
> I just read a post from a gentleman going to Spain who wants to
> avoid tourist destinations and meet the locals. Now, I have
> traveled more than majority of people and have been all over the
> world, but still have no idea what it means to "meet the locals".
-snip-
I agree with your point entirely.
The classic case goes something like: "I trekked off to this remote
part of the country; slept in the open; and met *real* people".
This must mean that the ones they met elsewhere on that trip live "less
real" lives than these ones -- they're just not as "real", somehow.
Which passes judgement on all those types, who have been deemed to be
"less real", since they live on rather than off the beaten track.
(So that poor bloody hotel receptionist -- on minimum wage -- who left
15 minutes early to pick up her kids from school because her husband's
broken his foot and has a doctor's appointment, isn't real. Hmmmm.)
It's so bleeding arrogant for tourists -- or travellers or whatever-
they-wish-to-call-themselves -- to define the "real-ness" of people in
the countries they visit on the basis of where that tourist happened to
encounter the person.
--
Cheers,
Harvey
For e-mail, change harvey to whhvs.
Jun 4th 2003, 10:33 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Miguel Cruz writes:
> My work puts me side-by-side with locals all over
> and frequently they don't even speak English, let
> alone hang out with foreigners all the time.
Then you have a very unusual occupation.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> My work puts me side-by-side with locals all over
> and frequently they don't even speak English, let
> alone hang out with foreigners all the time.
Then you have a very unusual occupation.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 4th 2003, 10:35 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Harvey Van Sickle writes:
> This must mean that the ones they met elsewhere
> on that trip live "less real" lives than these ones
> -- they're just not as "real", somehow.
Many tourists assume that locals who resemble themselves are not "real"
locals, and that the natives must be very different and exotic, or they
are not authentic.
Of course, since human beings are pretty much the same everywhere, this
point of view is somewhat misinformed.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> This must mean that the ones they met elsewhere
> on that trip live "less real" lives than these ones
> -- they're just not as "real", somehow.
Many tourists assume that locals who resemble themselves are not "real"
locals, and that the natives must be very different and exotic, or they
are not authentic.
Of course, since human beings are pretty much the same everywhere, this
point of view is somewhat misinformed.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 4th 2003, 2:54 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
"Marko" wrote in message news:...
> Wow! Big response!
>
.> Now when I think about it, I think I might have phrased the initial
question
> wrong. I didn't mean how do you meet locals physically, but rather what it
> means to meet a local.
Well, yes. That is a different question from the one I originally
understood you to be asking.
> Maybe I'm trying to get too much out of my visits. My
> claim is that one cannot know the local ways without living there (or
> spending extensive periods there). In one visit, one cannot learn much about
> the country and the people and why do they think the way they do.
Well, if your mind is open enough, you can learn a fair amount about
SOME PART of the country, and SOME people and why THEY think the way
they do. But no, you can't really get an in-depth understanding of a
country on a single visit. And perhaps you never can. I've lived in
San Francisco for 20 years, and yet there are so many neighborhoods,
so many types of people pursuing so many different interests and
living such different lives, that I certainly don't "know the local
ways". So how could any visitor EVER claim to? And that's only a
small part of America. Who could ever understand the "local ways" of
this country, from the Louisiana bayous and the Southwest deserts to
the streets of Harlem and New England villages? (But admittedly the
US is more complex than most countries.)
So yes, if you are trying to know, really KNOW, the local ways, then
you ARE trying to get too much out of your visits. I'm happy just to
add a few more pieces -- a little more understanding -- of a puzzle
that will never be complete. That, and the wonderful memories gained
in the search, are reward enough for my travels.
> Maybe I should go to Burkina Faso next... Anyone been there?
I left my heart in Ouagadougou. ;-)
> Wow! Big response!
>
.> Now when I think about it, I think I might have phrased the initial
question
> wrong. I didn't mean how do you meet locals physically, but rather what it
> means to meet a local.
Well, yes. That is a different question from the one I originally
understood you to be asking.
> Maybe I'm trying to get too much out of my visits. My
> claim is that one cannot know the local ways without living there (or
> spending extensive periods there). In one visit, one cannot learn much about
> the country and the people and why do they think the way they do.
Well, if your mind is open enough, you can learn a fair amount about
SOME PART of the country, and SOME people and why THEY think the way
they do. But no, you can't really get an in-depth understanding of a
country on a single visit. And perhaps you never can. I've lived in
San Francisco for 20 years, and yet there are so many neighborhoods,
so many types of people pursuing so many different interests and
living such different lives, that I certainly don't "know the local
ways". So how could any visitor EVER claim to? And that's only a
small part of America. Who could ever understand the "local ways" of
this country, from the Louisiana bayous and the Southwest deserts to
the streets of Harlem and New England villages? (But admittedly the
US is more complex than most countries.)
So yes, if you are trying to know, really KNOW, the local ways, then
you ARE trying to get too much out of your visits. I'm happy just to
add a few more pieces -- a little more understanding -- of a puzzle
that will never be complete. That, and the wonderful memories gained
in the search, are reward enough for my travels.
> Maybe I should go to Burkina Faso next... Anyone been there?
I left my heart in Ouagadougou. ;-)
Jun 4th 2003, 10:44 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Following up to Marc
>Since 1991 most places in Europe that have an interesting
>attraction will be well visited.
Come and see Bexley. Real middle England within 15 miles of London, a
few minor sites and get an impression of what England is really like
:-)
--
Mike Reid
A rather dull page with a few photos of where I live
"Old Bexley" is at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/londonwalk9.htm"
(see website for email)
>Since 1991 most places in Europe that have an interesting
>attraction will be well visited.
Come and see Bexley. Real middle England within 15 miles of London, a
few minor sites and get an impression of what England is really like
:-)
--
Mike Reid
A rather dull page with a few photos of where I live
"Old Bexley" is at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/londonwalk9.htm"
(see website for email)
Jun 4th 2003, 10:44 pm
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Following up to Mxsmanic
>> Or perhaps visitors to London are not really
>> interested in finding good food.
>Perhaps they know what an exercise in futility that can be!
your out of touch or not looking, just like the tourists?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>> Or perhaps visitors to London are not really
>> interested in finding good food.
>Perhaps they know what an exercise in futility that can be!
your out of touch or not looking, just like the tourists?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Jun 4th 2003, 10:44 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Meeting the locals
Following up to Marko
> Once you keep in touch with the people you meet and
>you visit again and again, can you say that you know how the country
>breathes.
Absolutly, visiting a place once is no use at all. I have a friend who
never goes back to the same place twice, she has seen everything and
understands nothing.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
> Once you keep in touch with the people you meet and
>you visit again and again, can you say that you know how the country
>breathes.
Absolutly, visiting a place once is no use at all. I have a friend who
never goes back to the same place twice, she has seen everything and
understands nothing.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
