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McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

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McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

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Old Sep 18th 2006, 5:53 am
  #76  
Martin
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:46:40 -0700, Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:24:17 -0700,
    >"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Dave Frightens Me wrote:
    >>>
    >>> It's a franchise where they make really healthy looking sandwiches
    >>> using only the finest freshly baked bread. The absence of flavour is
    >>> made up for by delicious sounding desciptions, like:
    >>And "freshly baked bread" is only as good as the ingredients.
    >Subway's "freshly baked bread" has roughly the taste and texture
    >of brown-and-serve bread from the refrigerator case at the
    >supermarket. Which, from the looks of the baking process at
    >Subway, is pretty much what it is.
    >I don't much care for Subway sandwiches, although if in a hurry
    >I'll someitmes buy one for a quick bite.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodm...851284,00.html

"Subway Turkey Breast and Bacon Melt Wrap

This lunchtime snack contains 5g of salt -more than 80 per cent of the
total recommended daily limit. And the turkey breast is made from
're-formed meat' ..."
--

Martin
 
Old Sep 18th 2006, 6:16 am
  #77  
Iceman
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

Cathy L wrote:
    > We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    > dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    > France and Germany were superb!

Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.
 
Old Sep 18th 2006, 8:12 am
  #78  
Martin
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

On 18 Sep 2006 11:16:15 -0700, "Iceman" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Cathy L wrote:
    >> We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    >> dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    >> France and Germany were superb!
    >Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    >instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.

I'm still waiting to see Cathy and Bill's holiday photos.
--

Martin
 
Old Sep 18th 2006, 2:45 pm
  #79  
EvelynVogtGamble
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

Iceman wrote:

    > Cathy L wrote:
    >
    >>We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    >>dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    >>France and Germany were superb!
    >
    >
    > Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    > instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.

Good point!
    >
 
Old Sep 18th 2006, 9:15 pm
  #80  
Martin
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:45:09 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Iceman wrote:
    >> Cathy L wrote:
    >>
    >>>We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    >>>dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    >>>France and Germany were superb!
    >>
    >>
    >> Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    >> instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.
    >Good point!

Actually visiting Europe would be a good start.
--

Martin
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 4:22 am
  #81  
EvelynVogtGamble
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

Martin wrote:

    > On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:45:09 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Iceman wrote:
    >>>Cathy L wrote:
    >>>>We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    >>>>dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    >>>>France and Germany were superb!
    >>>Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    >>>instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.
    >>Good point!
    >
    >
    > Actually visiting Europe would be a good start.

    :-) (I think the suggestion was for a "neighborhood Italian
bakery" IN Italy!)
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 4:35 am
  #82  
Frank F. Matthews
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

Iceman wrote:

    > Cathy L wrote:
    >
    >>We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    >>dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    >>France and Germany were superb!
    >
    >
    > Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    > instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.
    >

Actually I would say that bread is the weak point of Italian cooking.
Some is decent but the overall quality is fairly weak.
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 4:51 am
  #83  
Martin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:22:55 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Martin wrote:
    >> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:45:09 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Iceman wrote:
    >>>>Cathy L wrote:
    >>>>>We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    >>>>>dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    >>>>>France and Germany were superb!
    >>>>Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    >>>>instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.
    >>>Good point!
    >>
    >>
    >> Actually visiting Europe would be a good start.
    >:-) (I think the suggestion was for a "neighborhood Italian
    >bakery" IN Italy!)

I'm not convinced that Cathy/Bill aren't just an elaborate troll.
They're holiday photos might just make me change my mind.
I've eaten good bread in Italy.
--

Martin
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 5:02 am
  #84  
Padraig Breathnach
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

"Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Actually I would say that bread is the weak point of Italian cooking.
    >Some is decent but the overall quality is fairly weak.

It's not a question of good or bad, but of what is to your taste. In
general, I have not found bread in Italy to be to my taste.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 5:11 am
  #85  
James Silverton
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Default Re: McDonald's Doing GREAT In Europe...

Hello, Padraig!
You wrote on Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:02:58 +0100:

??>> Actually I would say that bread is the weak point of
??>> Italian cooking. Some is decent but the overall quality is
??>> fairly weak.

PB> It's not a question of good or bad, but of what is to your
PB> taste. In general, I have not found bread in Italy to be to
PB> my taste.

It's an interesting thing but many "Italian Bread" recipes on
the net are basically those for French and extol the crusty
nature. I think real Italian Bread recipes usually include olive
oil, produce a softer result and I'm not that enthusiastic about
them either. I'd also much rather have petits pains (did I get
the grammar right?) than brioches at breakfast.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 5:45 am
  #86  
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian bread. was Re: MacDonalds

Frank F. Matthews wrote:
    > Iceman wrote:
    > > Cathy L wrote:
    > >
    > >>We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    > >>dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    > >>France and Germany were superb!
    > >
    > >
    > > Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    > > instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.
    > >
    > Actually I would say that bread is the weak point of Italian cooking.
    > Some is decent but the overall quality is fairly weak.

As compared to what? Many of the basis of comparisons of the
people around here might make it "amongst" the best varieties
they've had.
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 9:20 am
  #87  
Martin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Italian bread. was Re: MacDonalds

On 19 Sep 2006 10:45:56 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Frank F. Matthews wrote:
    >> Iceman wrote:
    >> > Cathy L wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>We were so looking forward to having Italian bread in Italy. How
    >> >>dissapointed we were to find how tasteless it was. The breads in
    >> >>France and Germany were superb!
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    >> > instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.
    >> >
    >> Actually I would say that bread is the weak point of Italian cooking.
    >> Some is decent but the overall quality is fairly weak.
    > As compared to what? Many of the basis of comparisons of the
    >people around here might make it "amongst" the best varieties
    >they've had.

The same thought occurred to me. As far as Italian bread recipes
always contain oil goes, I googled about 20 Italian bread recipes as
opposed to pizza bread recipes and found only one that had oil as an
ingredient.
--

Martin
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 9:22 am
  #88  
B Vaughan
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Italian bread. was Re: MacDonalds

On 19 Sep 2006 10:45:56 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Frank F. Matthews wrote:
    >> Iceman wrote:

    >> Actually I would say that bread is the weak point of Italian cooking.
    >> Some is decent but the overall quality is fairly weak.
    > As compared to what? Many of the basis of comparisons of the
    >people around here might make it "amongst" the best varieties
    >they've had.

I agree that bread is not a strong point of Italian cuisine. To start
with, it's almost all made with bleached white flour. I make almost
all of my own bread, because I'm tired of the bread I can find in my
town.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 9:39 am
  #89  
Martin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Italian bread. was Re: MacDonalds

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:22:49 +0200, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 19 Sep 2006 10:45:56 -0700, "[email protected]"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Frank F. Matthews wrote:
    >>> Iceman wrote:
    >>> Actually I would say that bread is the weak point of Italian cooking.
    >>> Some is decent but the overall quality is fairly weak.
    >> As compared to what? Many of the basis of comparisons of the
    >>people around here might make it "amongst" the best varieties
    >>they've had.
    >I agree that bread is not a strong point of Italian cuisine. To start
    >with, it's almost all made with bleached white flour. I make almost
    >all of my own bread, because I'm tired of the bread I can find in my
    >town.

We make almost all of our bread too, but it doesn't mean that good
bread is not available in the Netherlands.
--

Martin
 
Old Sep 19th 2006, 8:45 pm
  #90  
Giovanni Drogo
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Italian bread. was Re: MacDonalds

    > > > Next time try the bread at an actual neighborhood Italian bakery
    > > > instead of a tourist trap restaurant where they bring bus tours.
    > >
    > > Actually I would say that bread is the weak point of Italian cooking.
    > > Some is decent but the overall quality is fairly weak.

It is probably a matter of taste and local customs. As a native italian
(and in particular milanese) I seldom find bread abroad up to my taste.
But I also find excellent bread difficult to find in my country.

Bread is (or was in the peasant culture of the past) a very important
part of the meal. Real italians cannot eat a "second course' (meat or
fish) without bread. I remember my uncles, who were masons, once went to
Switzerland for a work. They brought salame with them, but hoped to buy
bread there. They did not find any, and so did not eat anything.

There is an italian word, "companatico", which in the past was used to
indicate any food (meat, fish or vegetables) which you ate with bread
(pane). The word means "what goes along with bread". In fact bread was
the main component of meals for peasants (except in some areas where it
was replaced by polenta).

I was talking of local customs. There is a verse in Dante's Comedy,
where one of his ancestors in Paradise prophetises about Dante's exile,
and says that he will taste "si' come sa di sale lo pane altrui" i.e.
"how salty is somebody other's bread".

Here the pun is that it might both mean "how morally difficult is to beg
for hospitality in a foreign place" and how really salty is bread
outside of Tuscany, where they bake saltless bread.

So non-Tuscans often do not like Tuscan bread. Old milanese would like
"michette" (which I rank the best bread ever) and won't like their poor
imitation of romans "rosette", and maybe won't like pugliese bread,
while a pugliese will like only that. A venetian would be surprised to
find that michette are empty inside.

There are many variants of bread, some traditional like e.g. michette,
biove, ferraresi or the big pugliese loafs, some other commercial like
"pasta dura", "pane all'olio", "ciabatte".

Good bread is found at a "fornaio" or "panettiere" ("prestinaio" in
Milan) shop, i.e. baker. Fornaio comes from "forno" i.e. oven. But there
are nowadays not many shops with the oven, and the baker waking up early
in the night to bake "our daily bread".

Most "panettieri" are just "rivendite" (resellers). They sell bread
baked by a fornaio (best), a larger, but still craftsmanlike, oven
(acceptable) or an industrial bakery (worse).

The bottom of the scale are supermarkets with industrial bread, or even
half cooked bread to be heaten up in a microwave oven.

This is about the bread one eats in one's own house. If one is not
perverted, one should buy bread daily. And even so it is not enough.
Some of the bread done nowadays, specially in humid seasons like summer,
tend to be like rubber in the evening. The old michette did not do that,
but they tend to get stale soon. The best is to eat a michetta within a
few hours since it was baked. When I was a child and we had a baker
under our house, we could by freshly baked bread twice a day.

Now if one comes to the bread served in restaurants or hotels the
quality may vary. Rarely one finds good bread (expensive restaurants,
typical restaurants or maybe just bars which prepare "panini"), more
often not (average restaurant, fast food, station bars). In particularly
rarely in the average hotel at breakfast one finds the assortment of
bread one can find e.g. in Germany or Austria.

On the other hand my experience with bread abroad is not much different.

French bread is renowned but the situation does not like to me that
different from Italy (maybe it is easier to find freshly baked bread on
Sundays ... which in Italy is gone since ages).

In Germany one can find a good assortment of bread at a baker's shop,
but the average italian will wonder why it is not available in the
typical restaurant. According to German custom some dishes are served
with white bread, some other with brown bread (which usually tastes
acid to an Italian), some other with potatoes, some other with something
else or nothing at all. I tend to get used to it, but other Italians
will complain. I remember once in Regensburg we ate at a little
Wuerstkuche grill along the Danube, and there were baskets of bread on
the table, so we ate them all. Later the waiter came for the bill and
asked "Wieviele ?" (how many). We looked puzzled and replied "Alle !".

I am sorry to say that I rank UK as the worst for bread. The best I
could find when I lived there was integral sliced loaves of the sort
used for toasts (what we in Italy call "pan carre'"). Maybe nice at
breakfast, but really not what one expects to eat in a meal. Also it was
almost impossible to find a real baker, and specially one open early in
the morning or late in the afternoon (so one could buy bread going to
work or coming home, like I used to do in Germany), so I had to fall
back on weekly shopping at a supermarket.

--
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