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louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

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Old Aug 8th 2004, 8:17 am
  #31  
Emilia
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

jcoulter <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Emilia <emilia@(spam-so-)easy.com> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >> Exactly. To say "visit the Orsay" is not exactly beautiful in
    >> English.
    >>
    >> Anyway, the point of my post was to assure the OP that the Mona Lisa
    >> in the Louvre is in fact a fake. Can we never stick to the topic?
    >>
    > Ok we can skip the intelligent discussion of linguistic nuance and
    > jump right into the conspiracy of the week topic. Silly me!

    > You offer what as validation for your claim of fakery? Untill I see
    > credible proof to the contrary, I am going to continue to believe that
    > the Louvre as one of the world's premier art exhibitions is not
    > conning us.

It's a joke. I don't really care if it is a fake. The OP's question is
silly.

I didn't realize we were discussing "linguistic nuances". ;o)
I though you were just picking on grammar errors (which is just as bad as
discussing the conspiracy theory of the week. ;o)

Anyway, re: linguistic nuances: I agreed with Mx in that:

Mx Quote:
"sometimes one says things
strangely in other languages for the sake of _euphony_ or recognition.
It's routine to say the Pont Neuf bridge, for example, even though
"pont" already means "bridge."
Unquote

To which I replied
    >> Exactly. To say "visit the Orsay" is not exactly beautiful in
    >> English.
 
Old Aug 8th 2004, 9:42 pm
  #32  
The Reids
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

Following up to BB

    >Its extremely hyped; we got there early people in the line were trying to
    >figure out the quickest way to get to the Mona Lisa, so we joined in the
    >mad rush.

I think tourists should ask themselves this question:-

"do I look at art at home, do I buy and read art history books?"

If "no", for christ sake get out of the gallery and enjoy
yourself. I spend the time saved sitting in bars people watching.
Beats any old master i've seen as an insight into the foreign
country you spent so much trouble getting to.

But architecture I *do* enjoy although I certainly don't traipse
round numerous ABCs in good drinking/eating time.
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
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Old Aug 9th 2004, 4:54 am
  #33  
Bb
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:42:50 +0100, The Reids wrote:

    > I think tourists should ask themselves this question:-
    >
    > "do I look at art at home, do I buy and read art history books?"
    >
    > If "no", for christ sake get out of the gallery and enjoy
    > yourself. I spend the time saved sitting in bars people watching.
    > Beats any old master i've seen as an insight into the foreign
    > country you spent so much trouble getting to.

Thats a very good point. I imagine a lot of people would find it odd that
one would go to Paris and not visit the Louvre, just as many might find it
odd not to go up the Eiffel Tower. But there is no obligation to do
anything other than what one enjoys.

Since impressionist and modern art are housed elsewhere, even art lovers
may find reason to skip the Louvre and go elsewhere.

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 7:40 am
  #34  
Me
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

The Reids <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > Following up to BB
    >
    > >Its extremely hyped; we got there early people in the line were trying to
    > >figure out the quickest way to get to the Mona Lisa, so we joined in the
    > >mad rush.
    >
    > I think tourists should ask themselves this question:-
    >
    > "do I look at art at home, do I buy and read art history books?"
    >
    > If "no", for christ sake get out of the gallery and enjoy
    > yourself. I spend the time saved sitting in bars people watching.
    > Beats any old master i've seen as an insight into the foreign
    > country you spent so much trouble getting to.
[snip]

This gets into that old discussion about why we travel. There
is "trophy tourism" and although it's not my cup of tea, there
are folks who travel for that reason. I will also admit that often
I go on vacation to do things I don't, or can't, home. So I'm not
sure that is particularly a good measure either. I will admit
though in my 3 visits to Paris, I've never found I wanted to spend
the time to get into the Louvre, other things always called.
But then again, I've been saving the British Museum for a "rainy day"
over about 5 trips to London so far. Still haven't made it.
Ya see, on the few rainy days I've had... well... ya see...
they have these things called "pubs".....
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 9:53 am
  #35  
Rita
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:42:50 +0100, The Reids <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to BB
    >>Its extremely hyped; we got there early people in the line were trying to
    >>figure out the quickest way to get to the Mona Lisa, so we joined in the
    >>mad rush.
    >I think tourists should ask themselves this question:-
    >"do I look at art at home, do I buy and read art history books?"
    >If "no", for christ sake get out of the gallery and enjoy
    >yourself. I spend the time saved sitting in bars people watching.
    >Beats any old master i've seen as an insight into the foreign
    >country you spent so much trouble getting to.
    >But architecture I *do* enjoy although I certainly don't traipse
    >round numerous ABCs in good drinking/eating time.

I am one who looks at art at home and so selectively views it
when I travel. My prime interest is contemporary art and I welcome
the chance to see a far larger selection than available to me in
New York museums. When visiting other museums, such as the Louvre,
I know I want to see a half dozen things and limit my visit to those.

But I agree that if you are not passionate about viewing art, it is
rather silly to spend a good part of one's trip doing that. Just
because you think you "should".

By the way, the Internet is a great way to preview what there is to
see in various art museums. Almost all museums of any size have
websites and you can browse the collections. A great way to find what
interests you and what does not.
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 10:13 am
  #36  
Jcoulter
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

Rita <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:42:50 +0100, The Reids
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Following up to BB
    >>>Its extremely hyped; we got there early people in the line were
    >>>trying to figure out the quickest way to get to the Mona Lisa, so we
    >>>joined in the mad rush.
    >>I think tourists should ask themselves this question:-
    >>"do I look at art at home, do I buy and read art history books?"
No I don't except of course for the art in my home, But then I don't have
any orginal Monet's and anyone who has seen an original Van Gogh knows how
inadequate even the best reproductions are.
    >>If "no", for christ sake get out of the gallery and enjoy
    >>yourself. I spend the time saved sitting in bars people watching.
    >>Beats any old master i've seen as an insight into the foreign
    >>country you spent so much trouble getting to.
    >>But architecture I *do* enjoy although I certainly don't traipse
    >>round numerous ABCs in good drinking/eating time.
    >

Antoher one, Do I look at architecture at home? well a little, but then
nothing the the SE USA looks at all like the Opera Garnier in Paris.
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 10:36 am
  #37  
Bb
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 21:53:20 GMT, Rita wrote:

    > I am one who looks at art at home and so selectively views it
    > when I travel. My prime interest is contemporary art and I welcome
    > the chance to see a far larger selection than available to me in
    > New York museums. When visiting other museums, such as the Louvre,
    > I know I want to see a half dozen things and limit my visit to those.

Well I feel the same way about impressionist art. Its been an iterest ever
since I was in high school (which unfortunately was eons ago). A nice
thing about the art museums in Paris is that those interested in
impressionist and/or contemporary art can just skip the Louvre and visit
"the d'Orsay" ;-) or the Pompidou.

    > By the way, the Internet is a great way to preview what there is to
    > see in various art museums. Almost all museums of any size have
    > websites and you can browse the collections. A great way to find what
    > interests you and what does not.

This is a really, really good point. I looked at the Louvre website after
this discussion moved beyond its initial silliness, and found that it gave
a pretty good description of the art therein. Had I looked at it before my
trip last year, I'd have probably just spent my time elsewhere. Maybe. As
a semi-art-lover, I'd have probably felt that I slighted myself to visit
Paris but not the Louvre. Oh well, lesson learned for the next trip.

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 7:49 pm
  #38  
nitram
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

On 9 Aug 2004 22:36:08 GMT, BB <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 21:53:20 GMT, Rita wrote:
    >> I am one who looks at art at home and so selectively views it
    >> when I travel. My prime interest is contemporary art and I welcome
    >> the chance to see a far larger selection than available to me in
    >> New York museums. When visiting other museums, such as the Louvre,
    >> I know I want to see a half dozen things and limit my visit to those.
    >Well I feel the same way about impressionist art. Its been an iterest ever
    >since I was in high school (which unfortunately was eons ago). A nice
    >thing about the art museums in Paris is that those interested in
    >impressionist and/or contemporary art can just skip the Louvre and visit
    >"the d'Orsay" ;-) or the Pompidou.

Not forgetting Musée de l'Orangerie des Tuileries

More museums listed at
http://www.discoverfrance.net/France..._museums.shtml
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 8:16 pm
  #39  
The Reids
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

Following up to Rita

    >By the way, the Internet is a great way to preview what there is to
    >see in various art museums. Almost all museums of any size have
    >websites and you can browse the collections. A great way to find what
    >interests you and what does not.

Yes, as i'm not an enthusiast I just bought a book about the
Prado and saved the time. Its rarely opened!
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 8:16 pm
  #40  
The Reids
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

Following up to me

    >There
    >is "trophy tourism" and although it's not my cup of tea, there
    >are folks who travel for that reason. I will also admit that often
    >I go on vacation to do things I don't, or can't, home

Yes, if you cant do it at home the test is invalid. But I wonder
how many Londoners have walked round churches in Spain and
visited galleries having never done so in London?
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 8:18 pm
  #41  
The Reids
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

Following up to jcoulter

    >No I don't except of course for the art in my home, But then I don't have
    >any orginal Monet's and anyone who has seen an original Van Gogh knows how
    >inadequate even the best reproductions are.

To me, they look much the same. What can be so different? Brush
strokes? So what?
(I ask genuinely, not as a wind up)
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 8:22 pm
  #42  
The Reids
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

Following up to The Reids

    >To me, they look much the same. What can be so different? Brush
    >strokes? So what?
    >(I ask genuinely, not as a wind up)

I should have added, how come fakes go undetected if there is so
much difference?
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 8:25 pm
  #43  
The Reids
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

Following up to The Reids

    >I should have added, how come fakes go undetected if there is so
    >much difference?

Doh! Trouble with posting online, should also have said I can
acknowledge the genius that vreated the original, but cant see
why "scientific genius" cant make a good as perfect copy.
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
 
Old Aug 10th 2004, 12:06 am
  #44  
Jcoulter
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

The Reids <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Following up to jcoulter
    >
    >>No I don't except of course for the art in my home, But then I don't
    >>have any orginal Monet's and anyone who has seen an original Van Gogh
    >>knows how inadequate even the best reproductions are.
    >
    > To me, they look much the same. What can be so different? Brush
    > strokes? So what?
    > (I ask genuinely, not as a wind up)

Basically yes brushstrokes. (I am not so much talking of professional
quality fakes as prints that which we humble denizens of middle america can
afford to decorate our homes with.

Monet or Renoir printa have a light airy touch that is part of their appeal
and reflect the moods of the originals, Van Gogh's brush stokes bespeak the
twisted soul behind them, Starry night in print is beautiful in real life
it is a nightmare, a hauting possessed thing of unreal beauty and awesome
force.
 
Old Aug 10th 2004, 6:16 am
  #45  
Bogus Address
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Default Re: louvre:do you think Mona is genuine?

    >> No I don't except of course for the art in my home, But then I don't
    >> have any orginal Monet's and anyone who has seen an original Van Gogh
    >> knows how inadequate even the best reproductions are.
    > To me, they look much the same. What can be so different? Brush
    > strokes? So what? (I ask genuinely, not as a wind up)

Scale, for one thing. You don't get many 1:1 Monet reproductions.
I didn't get the point of Monet at all until I saw a real one.

Klee, on the other hand, reproduces in books just fine - his pictures
are mostly tiny.

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