Frank F. Matthews

Trish wrote:

    > "_merlinO_" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>"Trish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>[...]
    >>>Italians seem to understand Romanian and vice versa.
    >>I'm not so sure ;-) (I'm italian)
    >>Italians can understand a bit of Spanish, and maybe the reverse is true
    >>(are similar languages but many words are very different). Portuguese is
    >>similar to Brazilian, not Italian or Spanish.s
    >
    >
    > Perhaps I am wrong. I can only go on what I see in our school.
    > The Romanian children can easily make themselves understood to our Italian
    > classroom assistants, even before they start classes in Italian.
    >


If the Italians could handle Latin better they would do better with
Romanian.

Luca Logi

Deep Frayed Morgues <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

    > I have read that Romanian is closer to classical Latin than anything
    > else. It's certainly not difficult to learn, coming from a Latin
    > language background.

Romanian is quite different from Latin, and has had a Slav influx (for
example, "yes" is "da", like in Russian) that other Latin languages had
not. Probably the language closer to classical Latin is Italian, but
even Italian is quite distant.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)

Luca Logi

ARKADYA <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >>There are 5 latin derivated idioms in this world... hehehe
    > >>italian
    > >>french
    > >>spanish
    > >>poruguese
    > >>romanian
    >
    > Add Catalan and Corsican

Valencian, Gallego, Friulano & Ladino, Sardinian, etc.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

Frank F. Matthews

Gerald Oliver Swift wrote:

    > "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] om...
    >
    >>Swedish and Norwegian.
    >>Dutch and Flamish.
    >>Russian and Byelorussian.
    >>Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian.
    >>Bjorn
    >
    >
    > There are basically only 3 "main" European languages / language families:-
    >
    > Scandinavic - which includes English, German, Dutch, Swedish, Danish,
    > Norwegian, etc.
    > Mediterranic - which includes French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian,
    > Romanian, etc.
    > Slavic - which includes Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, Czech, Serbo-Croat, etc.
    > Then there's the rest - which include Turkish, Greek, Finnish, Hungarian,
    > Basque, Maltese, etc.
    >
    > If you speak a language in any one of the above 3 main families, you should
    > be able to comprehend some of the other languages in the same family. To
    > what extent is obviously a personal matter!
    >
    > Regards
    > Gerry
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



I think that your analysis is primarily grammar related. Personally I
find more French to be more understandable than the others that you
include with English. Because of the extensive borrowing of vocabulary
for modern terms I understood Russian better as a derivative of French.
Any of these comprehension comparisons need to consider vocabulary
carefully.

al-Farrob

Magda wrote:

    > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:10:59 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, al-Farrob
    > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
    > this :
    >
    > ... >> I'm not so sure ;-) (I'm italian)
    > ... >> Italians can understand a bit of Spanish, and maybe the reverse is
    > true ... >> (are similar languages but many words are very different).
    > Portuguese is ... >> similar to Brazilian, not Italian or Spanish.s
    > ... >
    > ... > Portuguese similar to Brazilian?
    > ... >
    > ... > Like English is similar to Australian?
    > ...
    > ... :)))
    > ... Don't be too hard :)
    >
    > He wasn't.

I know, I am portuguese. I was being ironic:)


--
al-Farrob
--
"16 photographs by al-Farrob"
http://www.al-farrob.com

R J Carpenter

In the late 1960s I discussed language teaching
with a Dutch school teacher. At the time the Dutch
educational system had just stopped requiring 3
foreign languages (perhaps only for college-bound
students). With a one-foreign-language
requirement, most were choosing English, most of
the rest chose German.

My mother worked translating patents from a number
of European languages into English. In her work,
Norwegian and Danish were considered essentially
the same. Swedish was separate.

I once was in the lobby of a hotel at St Tropez
late in the evening. A fellow came in looking for
a room for his family. He spoke only Spanish.
There was very little successful communication
with the desk clerk - but the hotel was full in
any case.

I recently looked at a Web site for professional
Scandanavian pilots. What I hadn't expected to
find was a language war. There was a strong
argument that the language of the site was
ENGLISH - primarily directed at the Finns. Finns
were "Scandanavian" by the rules of the group, but
no one else knew their langauge.

We've had a stream of French students at the US
lab where I work(ed). I've kept in touch with one
of the earliest ones. While in grad school he
organized a trip from his French univ. to Quebec.
Aside from accent, he commented that the
Quebequois invented "French" words for things
where real French used the English word.

And my cousin's son won all sorts of prizes in
high school for his German. His mother was German.
He went to visit his cousins in Germany and said
it took him quite a bit of time to be able to
understand the German they spoke at home. They
lived in the Ruhr. They were very much
middle-class (or higher). I've since read that
most Germans speak a local dielect at home - is
that true.

bob c.

nitram

On 24 Nov 2004 14:17:15 -0800, [email protected] (Mika)
wrote:

    >[email protected] (David) wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
    >> I am interested to know what languages is used in Europe, and how
    >> close these languages are to each other in terms of being understood.
    >>
    >> I'm thinking (High German) can usually be understood by most Swiss
    >> (East of Fribourg anyway), and Austrians.
    >The other way round is not always true or at least takes some
    >practice.
    >> Certainly many Dutch people
    >> seem to have no problem with German.
    >No, but they all claim to have learned it at gunpoint during WWII. And
    >they want grandpa's bicycle back.
    >Since the we demanded that they take Rudy Carell back in exchange, we
    >haven't heard from them.

I think they took Rudy back after he retired.
--
Martin

Bogus Address

[mutually understandable languages]
    > Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian.

Nobody in either Croatia or Serbia ever used the term "Serbo-Croat"
much even before the breakup of Yugoslavia, but it's less misleading
than that way of putting it. The various dialects/languages don't
divide across anything like the national/religious boundaries: the
most fundamental division (kaj/sto) is between one minority Croatian
dialect and all the rest, the next one (-e/-je/-ije) is a north-south
gradation, and the extent to which speakers use Turkic vocabulary is
different again.

"Bosnian" is a nonsense. When I was in Sarajevo a couple of years
the first English-Bosnian dictionaries were being produced. They
were simply English-Croatian dictionaries with the covers and title
pages changed. In practice there is more Turkic vocabulary in use
in Bosnia, but nothing a Croatian speaker from Rijeka or Vukovar
couldn't understand.

Further, Serbo-Croat/whatever is mostly mutually understandable with
Bulgarian, and in a more limited way also with Slovenian, though
nobody's ever claimed those languages were the same.

========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

Magda

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:03:56 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, al-Farrob
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Magda wrote:
...
... > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:10:59 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, al-Farrob
... > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
... > this :
... >
... > ... >> I'm not so sure ;-) (I'm italian)
... > ... >> Italians can understand a bit of Spanish, and maybe the reverse is
... > true ... >> (are similar languages but many words are very different).
... > Portuguese is ... >> similar to Brazilian, not Italian or Spanish.s
... > ... >
... > ... > Portuguese similar to Brazilian?
... > ... >
... > ... > Like English is similar to Australian?
... > ...
... > ... :)))
... > ... Don't be too hard :)
... >
... > He wasn't.
...
... I know, I am portuguese. I was being ironic:)

Seen your name, I should have guessed ;))

Magda

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:11:17 -0500, in rec.travel.europe, "R J Carpenter"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... And my cousin's son won all sorts of prizes in
... high school for his German. His mother was German.
... He went to visit his cousins in Germany and said
... it took him quite a bit of time to be able to
... understand the German they spoke at home. They
... lived in the Ruhr. They were very much
... middle-class (or higher). I've since read that
... most Germans speak a local dielect at home - is
... that true.

I remember something about a German dialect that disappeared in Germany, but was kept
alive in Brazil with the people who emigrated there some three centuries ago. I don't
remember the details, but a Brazilian teacher of German descent was giving a conference in
Germany in his dialect, and had the audience thrilled to find out that said dialect wasn't
dead after all.

al-Farrob

Magda wrote:

    > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:03:56 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, al-Farrob
    > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
    > this :
    >
    > ... Magda wrote:
    > ...
    > ... > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:10:59 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, al-Farrob
    > ... > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked
    > like ... > this :
    > ... >
    > ... > ... >> I'm not so sure ;-) (I'm italian)
    > ... > ... >> Italians can understand a bit of Spanish, and maybe the
    > reverse is
    > ... > true ... >> (are similar languages but many words are very
    > different).
    > ... > Portuguese is ... >> similar to Brazilian, not Italian or
    > Spanish.s
    > ... > ... >
    > ... > ... > Portuguese similar to Brazilian?
    > ... > ... >
    > ... > ... > Like English is similar to Australian?
    > ... > ...
    > ... > ... :)))
    > ... > ... Don't be too hard :)
    > ... >
    > ... > He wasn't.
    > ...
    > ... I know, I am portuguese. I was being ironic:)
    >
    > Seen your name, I should have guessed ;))

Ehehe
This is not a name, it is a nickname, in case you want to know what it
means: http://www.al-farrob.com/readme.html or
http://www.al-farrob.com/readme-pt.html for a portuguese version.

I am following this thread with interest.

--
al-Farrob
--
"16 photographs by al-Farrob"
http://www.al-farrob.com

Padraig Breathnach

"Gerald Oliver Swift" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >There are basically only 3 "main" European languages / language families:-
    >Scandinavic - which includes English, German, Dutch, Swedish, Danish,
    >Norwegian, etc.
    >Mediterranic - which includes French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian,
    >Romanian, etc.
    >Slavic - which includes Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, Czech, Serbo-Croat, etc.
    >Then there's the rest - which include Turkish, Greek, Finnish, Hungarian,
    >Basque, Maltese, etc.
    >If you speak a language in any one of the above 3 main families, you should
    >be able to comprehend some of the other languages in the same family. To
    >what extent is obviously a personal matter!
I feel left out!

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

Magda

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:26:24 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, al-Farrob
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... Ehehe
... This is not a name, it is a nickname, in case you want to know what it
... means: http://www.al-farrob.com/readme.html or
... http://www.al-farrob.com/readme-pt.html for a portuguese version.
...
... I am following this thread with interest.
...
... --
... al-Farrob

Alfarroba é comestivel ?

(e pergunto sem segundas intenções... ;))

Magda

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:31:14 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... "Gerald Oliver Swift" <[email protected]> wrote:
...
... >There are basically only 3 "main" European languages / language families:-
... >
... >Scandinavic - which includes English, German, Dutch, Swedish, Danish,
... >Norwegian, etc.
... >Mediterranic - which includes French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian,
... >Romanian, etc.
... >Slavic - which includes Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, Czech, Serbo-Croat, etc.
... >Then there's the rest - which include Turkish, Greek, Finnish, Hungarian,
... >Basque, Maltese, etc.
... >
... >If you speak a language in any one of the above 3 main families, you should
... >be able to comprehend some of the other languages in the same family. To
... >what extent is obviously a personal matter!
... >
... I feel left out!

You speak English !

Jon Bell

In article <1gnrvit.lmqdkh10yiw43N%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.com>,
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Hungarian and Finnish/Estonian are sometimes lumped together, along with
    >Basque- not because they are like each other, but that they are
    >unrelated to any other Indo-european languages.

Hungarian and Finnish/Estonian *are* related, although rather distantly.
I understand that the relationship is more apparent in similarities of
grammatical structures than in surface similarities in vocabulary (of
which there are few). Somewhere I once read that Finnish and Hungarian
are about on the same level of relationship as Persian and English (which
are both Indo-European languages).

Basque is completely unrelated to either Hungarian or Finnish, as far as I
know.

    >Are there any others in this category.

Here's what looks like a good list:

http://www.helsinki.fi/~tasalmin/fu.html

--
Jon Bell <[email protected]> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA