that knife and fork stuff
Jun 4th 2005, 9:57 am
#46
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Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
I once read an article in a UK paper that explained the origins of the
American style of manipulating fork and knife. Originally, Europeans
used two knives to cut food: one to hold it down and the other to cut
and bring to the mouth. Eventually, a couple of prongs were added to
the end of left-hand knives for better grip, and the fork evolved from
that. By then, the English had colonised the New World and the
colonists wanted to follow the new fashion of eating with just one
knife. But there were no molds to make forks, so they held the food
down with the spoon, which then required them to switch the spoon to
the right hand to scoop up the piece they'd cut since they couldn't
spear it. You would think they would have abandoned that system once
forks arrived, but I guess by that time the habit was too engrained.
The Reids a écrit :
> On our tour of Shetland and Orkney we came across a hotel with
> some Americans staying. Not unusual you say. Quite so, you get
> pockets of US visitors in the Scottish Islands, I suppose some
> hotels make a point of advertising in US. Anyway, using my
> knowledge gained here of eating styles I decided to see this cut
> up with knife then eat with fork only stuff that caused a fuss
> here and in rec.cooking a while ago. So I watched discreetly, it
> just didnt happen!
> --
> Mike Reid
> Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
> Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
American style of manipulating fork and knife. Originally, Europeans
used two knives to cut food: one to hold it down and the other to cut
and bring to the mouth. Eventually, a couple of prongs were added to
the end of left-hand knives for better grip, and the fork evolved from
that. By then, the English had colonised the New World and the
colonists wanted to follow the new fashion of eating with just one
knife. But there were no molds to make forks, so they held the food
down with the spoon, which then required them to switch the spoon to
the right hand to scoop up the piece they'd cut since they couldn't
spear it. You would think they would have abandoned that system once
forks arrived, but I guess by that time the habit was too engrained.
The Reids a écrit :
> On our tour of Shetland and Orkney we came across a hotel with
> some Americans staying. Not unusual you say. Quite so, you get
> pockets of US visitors in the Scottish Islands, I suppose some
> hotels make a point of advertising in US. Anyway, using my
> knowledge gained here of eating styles I decided to see this cut
> up with knife then eat with fork only stuff that caused a fuss
> here and in rec.cooking a while ago. So I watched discreetly, it
> just didnt happen!
> --
> Mike Reid
> Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
> Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 4th 2005, 10:38 am
#47
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Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:27:45 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:08:29 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:50:40 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:34:20 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:17:01 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>Any tips about eating ring doughnuts?
>>>>>>Yep. Don't.
>>>>>>Cheers, Alan, Australia
>>>>>Alan "Debrett" Bon Viveur, cultural attache to the Court of Saint
>>>>>James?
>>>>>--
>>>>Nope. Alan who used to eat lots of them while driving cabs
>>>>in Melbourne, and now reads and posts on
>>>>alt.support.diabetes.
>>>>Care to join me? No race, creed, or any other
>>>>discrimination, only one membership qualification :-)
>>>There's no way you are going to get me to drink H*en*k*n
>>Me either:-)
>>Wrong entry qual.
>:-)
>I haven't got diabetes *yet*
True. Do you remember your original question?
Of course, if you chose your parents carefully, my answer
was irrelevant.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:08:29 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:50:40 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:34:20 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:17:01 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>Any tips about eating ring doughnuts?
>>>>>>Yep. Don't.
>>>>>>Cheers, Alan, Australia
>>>>>Alan "Debrett" Bon Viveur, cultural attache to the Court of Saint
>>>>>James?
>>>>>--
>>>>Nope. Alan who used to eat lots of them while driving cabs
>>>>in Melbourne, and now reads and posts on
>>>>alt.support.diabetes.
>>>>Care to join me? No race, creed, or any other
>>>>discrimination, only one membership qualification :-)
>>>There's no way you are going to get me to drink H*en*k*n
>>Me either:-)
>>Wrong entry qual.
>:-)
>I haven't got diabetes *yet*
True. Do you remember your original question?
Of course, if you chose your parents carefully, my answer
was irrelevant.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
Jun 4th 2005, 11:03 am
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:45:22 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>pick it up by the inedible end and suck off the soft part (so to
>>speak) personally I snap off the inedible and eat it with knife
>>and fork. Just remember to pass the port to the left.
>I snap off the inedible end before I cook it. That means that the
>fingers method isn't a great idea; besides, I don't want butter on my
>fingers. To hell with Debrett: I want to enjoy my food!
Oh I don't know. I had some today. Snapped off the end before I
cooked it and then ate it with my fingers. (I didn't realise I was
"correct" just wanted to enjoy it, which I did - yummy). I didn't
have anything on it so my fingers weren't too bad.
Derek
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>pick it up by the inedible end and suck off the soft part (so to
>>speak) personally I snap off the inedible and eat it with knife
>>and fork. Just remember to pass the port to the left.
>I snap off the inedible end before I cook it. That means that the
>fingers method isn't a great idea; besides, I don't want butter on my
>fingers. To hell with Debrett: I want to enjoy my food!
Oh I don't know. I had some today. Snapped off the end before I
cooked it and then ate it with my fingers. (I didn't realise I was
"correct" just wanted to enjoy it, which I did - yummy). I didn't
have anything on it so my fingers weren't too bad.
Derek
Jun 4th 2005, 11:08 am
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 06:51:45 GMT, [email protected] (Carole Allen)
wrote:
>>On 3 Jun 2005 14:19:08 -0700, "SusieQ" <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>>But, I just can't bring my self to eat Pizza unless I pick it up and
>>>fold it.
>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:33:15 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]>
>wrote:>Fold it?? Amazing.
>>Cheers, Alan, Australia
>Yes..lots of folks in Italy fold their pizza...for one thing, these
>are thin-crust,and not loaded with 50,000 toppings...folks fold and
>eat them sort of like a sandwich...I saw tons of folks (locals) eat
>pizza this way
What are those Italian things that come already folded in half with
oodles of filling - bit like a Cornish pastie or North of England
oatcakes? If they weren't so filling they would be decidedly
moreish.
Derek.
wrote:
>>On 3 Jun 2005 14:19:08 -0700, "SusieQ" <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>>But, I just can't bring my self to eat Pizza unless I pick it up and
>>>fold it.
>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:33:15 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]>
>wrote:>Fold it?? Amazing.
>>Cheers, Alan, Australia
>Yes..lots of folks in Italy fold their pizza...for one thing, these
>are thin-crust,and not loaded with 50,000 toppings...folks fold and
>eat them sort of like a sandwich...I saw tons of folks (locals) eat
>pizza this way
What are those Italian things that come already folded in half with
oodles of filling - bit like a Cornish pastie or North of England
oatcakes? If they weren't so filling they would be decidedly
moreish.
Derek.
Jun 4th 2005, 2:56 pm
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
Derek McBryde wrote:
>
> What are those Italian things that come already folded in half with
> oodles of filling - bit like a Cornish pastie or North of England
> oatcakes? If they weren't so filling they would be decidedly
> moreish.
>
Calzone?
>
> What are those Italian things that come already folded in half with
> oodles of filling - bit like a Cornish pastie or North of England
> oatcakes? If they weren't so filling they would be decidedly
> moreish.
>
Calzone?
Jun 4th 2005, 7:47 pm
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 08:38:42 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:27:45 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:08:29 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:50:40 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:34:20 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:17:01 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>Any tips about eating ring doughnuts?
>>>>>>>Yep. Don't.
>>>>>>>Cheers, Alan, Australia
>>>>>>Alan "Debrett" Bon Viveur, cultural attache to the Court of Saint
>>>>>>James?
>>>>>>--
>>>>>Nope. Alan who used to eat lots of them while driving cabs
>>>>>in Melbourne, and now reads and posts on
>>>>>alt.support.diabetes.
>>>>>Care to join me? No race, creed, or any other
>>>>>discrimination, only one membership qualification :-)
>>>>There's no way you are going to get me to drink H*en*k*n
>>>Me either:-)
>>>Wrong entry qual.
>>:-)
>>I haven't got diabetes *yet*
>True. Do you remember your original question?
I made the connection :-)
>Of course, if you chose your parents carefully, my answer
>was irrelevant.
No. I wasn't consulted.
--
Martin
>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:27:45 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:08:29 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:50:40 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:34:20 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:17:01 +0200, nitram <[email protected]>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>Any tips about eating ring doughnuts?
>>>>>>>Yep. Don't.
>>>>>>>Cheers, Alan, Australia
>>>>>>Alan "Debrett" Bon Viveur, cultural attache to the Court of Saint
>>>>>>James?
>>>>>>--
>>>>>Nope. Alan who used to eat lots of them while driving cabs
>>>>>in Melbourne, and now reads and posts on
>>>>>alt.support.diabetes.
>>>>>Care to join me? No race, creed, or any other
>>>>>discrimination, only one membership qualification :-)
>>>>There's no way you are going to get me to drink H*en*k*n
>>>Me either:-)
>>>Wrong entry qual.
>>:-)
>>I haven't got diabetes *yet*
>True. Do you remember your original question?
I made the connection :-)
>Of course, if you chose your parents carefully, my answer
>was irrelevant.
No. I wasn't consulted.
--
Martin
Jun 4th 2005, 9:41 pm
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
Icono Clast wrote:
> george wrote:
>> No matter what you do at the dinner table, your table manners
>> are unlikely to be completely accepted in a foreign culture
>
> Last night I dined in a Korean restaurant with a Chinese woman
> from Taiwan. I used a spoon to put the side dishes upon my rice.
> She used her chop sticks. I presume she was correct but didn't
> question her.
This evening I asked a Chinese guy about the above. He told me that
using one's chopsticks in a familial dish is quite proper and is, in
fact, complimentary to one's companions.
ASIDE:
This evening I ate at another Korean restaurant with a woman of
Mexican ancestry. She thought all awful and hardly touched a thing.
Dif'rent strokes. I'll eat the leftovers Tuesday.
__________________________________________________ _________________
A San Franciscan who says: "You serve it, I'll eat it!"
< http://geocities.com/dancefest/ >-< http://geocities.com/iconoc/ >
ICQ: < http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 > ---> IClast at SFbay Net
> george wrote:
>> No matter what you do at the dinner table, your table manners
>> are unlikely to be completely accepted in a foreign culture
>
> Last night I dined in a Korean restaurant with a Chinese woman
> from Taiwan. I used a spoon to put the side dishes upon my rice.
> She used her chop sticks. I presume she was correct but didn't
> question her.
This evening I asked a Chinese guy about the above. He told me that
using one's chopsticks in a familial dish is quite proper and is, in
fact, complimentary to one's companions.
ASIDE:
This evening I ate at another Korean restaurant with a woman of
Mexican ancestry. She thought all awful and hardly touched a thing.
Dif'rent strokes. I'll eat the leftovers Tuesday.
__________________________________________________ _________________
A San Franciscan who says: "You serve it, I'll eat it!"
< http://geocities.com/dancefest/ >-< http://geocities.com/iconoc/ >
ICQ: < http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 > ---> IClast at SFbay Net
Jun 5th 2005, 3:58 am
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
Following up to d_jay_double
>Nope, they cut it into wedges and then fold the wedges.
i wish I could remember such things!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>Nope, they cut it into wedges and then fold the wedges.
i wish I could remember such things!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 5th 2005, 3:59 am
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
Following up to Derek McBryde
> (I didn't realise I was
>"correct" just wanted to enjoy it,
you're obviously a natural gentleman!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
> (I didn't realise I was
>"correct" just wanted to enjoy it,
you're obviously a natural gentleman!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 5th 2005, 4:28 am
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
Following up to [email protected]
>Originally, Europeans
>used two knives to cut food: one to hold it down and the other to cut
>and bring to the mouth
must have been tough with pasta.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>Originally, Europeans
>used two knives to cut food: one to hold it down and the other to cut
>and bring to the mouth
must have been tough with pasta.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 5th 2005, 4:28 am
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
Following up to george
>On Yell, the motel, cafe and "pub" were all (permently?) closed
>down.
>The only thing I can remember about Yell is stopping to take some
>pictures of Shetland ponies r
I forgot the Wind Dog cafe at the Unst ferry terminal, theres
also the "White Wife", a ships figurehead which looks over the
fishermen or something.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>On Yell, the motel, cafe and "pub" were all (permently?) closed
>down.
>The only thing I can remember about Yell is stopping to take some
>pictures of Shetland ponies r
I forgot the Wind Dog cafe at the Unst ferry terminal, theres
also the "White Wife", a ships figurehead which looks over the
fishermen or something.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 5th 2005, 4:28 am
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
Following up to nitram
>>Why do you think mashed potato was invented?
>Honey is used in refined circles.
you can crush them against the tines, perhaps that's how mushy
peas were invented?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>>Why do you think mashed potato was invented?
>Honey is used in refined circles.
you can crush them against the tines, perhaps that's how mushy
peas were invented?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 5th 2005, 4:28 am
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
Following up to Earl Evleth
>> pick up the bowl?
>Watch out, do not drink from the finger bowl
my wife thought her tea was a dip in a Japanese place, or it
might have been she drank the soup as tea, one of the two.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>> pick up the bowl?
>Watch out, do not drink from the finger bowl
my wife thought her tea was a dip in a Japanese place, or it
might have been she drank the soup as tea, one of the two.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 5th 2005, 4:30 am
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 17:28:23 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to [email protected]
>>Originally, Europeans
>>used two knives to cut food: one to hold it down and the other to cut
>>and bring to the mouth
>must have been tough with pasta.
even harder with jelly.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to [email protected]
>>Originally, Europeans
>>used two knives to cut food: one to hold it down and the other to cut
>>and bring to the mouth
>must have been tough with pasta.
even harder with jelly.
--
Martin
Jun 6th 2005, 1:54 am
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: that knife and fork stuff
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 22:56:51 -0400, S Viemeister
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Derek McBryde wrote:
>>
>> What are those Italian things that come already folded in half with
>> oodles of filling - bit like a Cornish pastie or North of England
>> oatcakes? If they weren't so filling they would be decidedly
>> moreish.
>>
>Calzone?
That's it. They're really good.
Derek
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Derek McBryde wrote:
>>
>> What are those Italian things that come already folded in half with
>> oodles of filling - bit like a Cornish pastie or North of England
>> oatcakes? If they weren't so filling they would be decidedly
>> moreish.
>>
>Calzone?
That's it. They're really good.
Derek
