Italy in late July
Feb 15th 2004, 6:46 pm
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Italy in late July
Hi,
Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
starting from the North).
My personal priorities are:
a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
preferrably diverse
c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
have no equipment and not much stamina
e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
well, whether I want to or not.
I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
of landscape, architecture, people?
e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
g) Does it make sense to go back through
Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
Milan and Ferrara).
Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
prioritized order).
Best regards,
Juris.
P.S. We evaluated going back through
Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
quickly.
Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
starting from the North).
My personal priorities are:
a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
preferrably diverse
c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
have no equipment and not much stamina
e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
well, whether I want to or not.
I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
of landscape, architecture, people?
e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
g) Does it make sense to go back through
Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
Milan and Ferrara).
Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
prioritized order).
Best regards,
Juris.
P.S. We evaluated going back through
Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
quickly.
Feb 15th 2004, 7:50 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
"Juu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
Try the Lunigiana region of Tuscany. No glamour but plenty of old castles.
You'll find rooms for some EUR 50,00/night in agritourismi -farmhouses- and
the food is good. Just type Lunigiana in Google.
The language spoken is just normal Italian but the old people in the small
villages tend to speak the local dialect only. This you'll find everywhere
in Italy.
Have fun!
Ronald www.mulazzo.nl
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
> Best regards,
> Juris.
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
Try the Lunigiana region of Tuscany. No glamour but plenty of old castles.
You'll find rooms for some EUR 50,00/night in agritourismi -farmhouses- and
the food is good. Just type Lunigiana in Google.
The language spoken is just normal Italian but the old people in the small
villages tend to speak the local dialect only. This you'll find everywhere
in Italy.
Have fun!
Ronald www.mulazzo.nl
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
> Best regards,
> Juris.
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
Feb 15th 2004, 8:09 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
"Juu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Juris.
In two weeks, do not even consider all those other countries! July is hot
everywhere, but in the mountains it will be better. Do bring and use
religiously some sunblock at least a factor of 15, and don't forget your
ears! In the mountains the sun is even stronger.
For what you want, southeastern Umbria and le Marches sound perfect. They
have all you want plus most people speak an unaccented (more or less)
Italian, and not very much dialect.
To find fortresses and castles, go to Google and enter "castello" and the
region and then "Rocca" and the region. From Gubbio to Assisi and south you
will find many to explore and you will also find great forests for hiking
with paths which require only good shoes/boots.
Barbara Vaughan will be your guide to similar experiences in le Marches, a
place I love, but don't know as well.
I think you do need a plan and some reservations, but certainly in Rome and
Florence. Watch out for miscalculating distances. We say locally "An inch
on the map, seven hours on the road." Don't trust the time estimates on the
map service sites. To my regret, I did and spent three hours making a trip
they said would take one hour and 10 minutes.
You can take your chances and ask at the tourism office at the train
stations in the big cities -- they do a very good job-- but of course you
will get what there is.
I personally would find it impossible to drive from Riga (a place I am dying
to visit) to Italy, see Florence and Rome and also hike through the
countryside. Especially since parking in both Florence and Rome is very
very difficult.
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Juris.
In two weeks, do not even consider all those other countries! July is hot
everywhere, but in the mountains it will be better. Do bring and use
religiously some sunblock at least a factor of 15, and don't forget your
ears! In the mountains the sun is even stronger.
For what you want, southeastern Umbria and le Marches sound perfect. They
have all you want plus most people speak an unaccented (more or less)
Italian, and not very much dialect.
To find fortresses and castles, go to Google and enter "castello" and the
region and then "Rocca" and the region. From Gubbio to Assisi and south you
will find many to explore and you will also find great forests for hiking
with paths which require only good shoes/boots.
Barbara Vaughan will be your guide to similar experiences in le Marches, a
place I love, but don't know as well.
I think you do need a plan and some reservations, but certainly in Rome and
Florence. Watch out for miscalculating distances. We say locally "An inch
on the map, seven hours on the road." Don't trust the time estimates on the
map service sites. To my regret, I did and spent three hours making a trip
they said would take one hour and 10 minutes.
You can take your chances and ask at the tourism office at the train
stations in the big cities -- they do a very good job-- but of course you
will get what there is.
I personally would find it impossible to drive from Riga (a place I am dying
to visit) to Italy, see Florence and Rome and also hike through the
countryside. Especially since parking in both Florence and Rome is very
very difficult.
Feb 15th 2004, 9:12 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
On 15 Feb 2004, Juu wrote:
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
That will be part of the peak holiday season, lot of traffic on
motorways in weekends, and it is also likely to be extremely hot.
> a) Language tourism - [...] people are friendly and speak with
> little accent
You know, Italian was originally Tuscan. In Tuscany even peasants speak
what always surprises me as a perfect literary italian ... although they
have a definite very marked accent !
You should probably avoid the mountain areas in the north, there are
some German and French speaking areas there, and even in the other areas
local dialects survive much more than in other areas !
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
No much "wilderness" in a densely populated country like Italy ! For me
the best landscapes are in the Alps, but that contrasts with your
language requirement. Otherwise the prealpine lakes in Lombardy, or the
hills in Marche, Umbria, Tuscany. But spring would be a better season.
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
Pity for you, I do not make such a difference between castles or
cathedrals (nor did our ancestors). Probably the best and more renowned
castles are in Val d'Aosta and Trentino Alto Adige, but those are the
french and german-speaking alpine regions. You could find nice places
between Romagna, Marche, Umbria (Gradara, San Marino, San Leo).
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
Alps or Appennines ? I've never been to the National Park of Foreste
Casentinesi (on the Appennines between Romagna and Tuscany) but that
could be on your way.
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
Trentino, or Tuscany
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
OK, then do not forget also minor places in Lazio, Viterbo, Caprarola,
or the Etruscan sites, or Palestrina
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
If you travel by car, consider "agriturismi" (B&B at farms).
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends
It's peak season (that will surely apply to seaside and mountain
resorts)
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
A lot. I won't overdo and go all the way south, which will be even
hotter.
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
Corsica is not Italy, it's France. I've never been there. I heard their
original dialect was an hybrid between Tuscan and Ligurian, but I'm not
sure how many people do speak it instead of french. You can't ferry from
Corsica to Sicily !
You can probably cut your way to Sicily ferrying from Naples, but I
really won't do both North, Centre and South in a single trip.
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
They will be unbearable in the plains in the North (around Milan) and in
Florence. I would never make such a trip other than in spring or autumn
(in summer, I either escape from Milan to some place in the mountains,
or go to northern Europe !).
In my opinion July is usually hotter than August, at least in August the
sun sets earlier, but nowadays what can one say is "usual" any longer ?
For the crowds, yes, unexplainably people tend to concentrate their
holidays from the last of July to after August 15.
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
I would say NO at the expense of time in Italy, YES if you want fresher
air.
I'm not sure which way are you coming in. If you arrive from Austria
(Brenner pass) you will be passing through Alto Adige (Sued Tirol,
german speaking area) and Trentino. Mountains and castles there. I
advise for Castel Roncolo near Bolzano (nice frescoes). There are some
"wine roads" in the area. The Castello del Buon Consiglio in Trento is
a very interesting castle-palace. You can also go to Castel Beseno a
little bit south.
You can go via the motorway in the Adige valley (nice scenery) to Verona
(ancient city, nice churches but also Castel Vecchio), or make a detour
on lake Garda (most likely full of German tourists).
Alhtough I'm milanese, it won't be worth making a detour to Milan to see
the Castle (although dates back to 1300 or earlier, it's mainly a
post 1860 rebuilding). Were in you I'd proceed to Ferrara (and
sincerely I would not avoid Ravenna with its byzantine mosaics !!)
Then you can proceed to the "romantic" castle of Gradara, to the
republic of San Marino (three castles, although perhaps too many
tourists) and through the Montefeltro with the impressive fortress of
San Leo. Then you should enter Marche and visit at least Urbino with its
ducal palace (the view of the Torricini is unforgettable). You could
proceed south, and visit some of the nice inside villages (there is a
small fortress in Mondavio, but most of the villages and towns are worth
seeing by themselves).
At some time you could turn west (if you do it soon you'll end in
Umbria, if you go further south you'll end in Lazio. May be going down
to Lazio and Rome, then up to Tuscany and Florence, then into Umbria and
back that way ? or viceversa ?
I already quoted you some places in Lazio, you will find yourselves
plenty in Umbria and Tuscany. In Perugia you could be interested in the
ruins of Rocca Paolina, a fortress which was built by Pope Paul III to
control the Perugini, demolishing part of the medieval town. The
fortress was then demolished by the Perugini after the independence, and
one can now walk in the fortress dungeons, which are the ancient
medieval streets.
--
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avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
That will be part of the peak holiday season, lot of traffic on
motorways in weekends, and it is also likely to be extremely hot.
> a) Language tourism - [...] people are friendly and speak with
> little accent
You know, Italian was originally Tuscan. In Tuscany even peasants speak
what always surprises me as a perfect literary italian ... although they
have a definite very marked accent !
You should probably avoid the mountain areas in the north, there are
some German and French speaking areas there, and even in the other areas
local dialects survive much more than in other areas !
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
No much "wilderness" in a densely populated country like Italy ! For me
the best landscapes are in the Alps, but that contrasts with your
language requirement. Otherwise the prealpine lakes in Lombardy, or the
hills in Marche, Umbria, Tuscany. But spring would be a better season.
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
Pity for you, I do not make such a difference between castles or
cathedrals (nor did our ancestors). Probably the best and more renowned
castles are in Val d'Aosta and Trentino Alto Adige, but those are the
french and german-speaking alpine regions. You could find nice places
between Romagna, Marche, Umbria (Gradara, San Marino, San Leo).
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
Alps or Appennines ? I've never been to the National Park of Foreste
Casentinesi (on the Appennines between Romagna and Tuscany) but that
could be on your way.
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
Trentino, or Tuscany
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
OK, then do not forget also minor places in Lazio, Viterbo, Caprarola,
or the Etruscan sites, or Palestrina
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
If you travel by car, consider "agriturismi" (B&B at farms).
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends
It's peak season (that will surely apply to seaside and mountain
resorts)
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
A lot. I won't overdo and go all the way south, which will be even
hotter.
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
Corsica is not Italy, it's France. I've never been there. I heard their
original dialect was an hybrid between Tuscan and Ligurian, but I'm not
sure how many people do speak it instead of french. You can't ferry from
Corsica to Sicily !
You can probably cut your way to Sicily ferrying from Naples, but I
really won't do both North, Centre and South in a single trip.
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
They will be unbearable in the plains in the North (around Milan) and in
Florence. I would never make such a trip other than in spring or autumn
(in summer, I either escape from Milan to some place in the mountains,
or go to northern Europe !).
In my opinion July is usually hotter than August, at least in August the
sun sets earlier, but nowadays what can one say is "usual" any longer ?
For the crowds, yes, unexplainably people tend to concentrate their
holidays from the last of July to after August 15.
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
I would say NO at the expense of time in Italy, YES if you want fresher
air.
I'm not sure which way are you coming in. If you arrive from Austria
(Brenner pass) you will be passing through Alto Adige (Sued Tirol,
german speaking area) and Trentino. Mountains and castles there. I
advise for Castel Roncolo near Bolzano (nice frescoes). There are some
"wine roads" in the area. The Castello del Buon Consiglio in Trento is
a very interesting castle-palace. You can also go to Castel Beseno a
little bit south.
You can go via the motorway in the Adige valley (nice scenery) to Verona
(ancient city, nice churches but also Castel Vecchio), or make a detour
on lake Garda (most likely full of German tourists).
Alhtough I'm milanese, it won't be worth making a detour to Milan to see
the Castle (although dates back to 1300 or earlier, it's mainly a
post 1860 rebuilding). Were in you I'd proceed to Ferrara (and
sincerely I would not avoid Ravenna with its byzantine mosaics !!)
Then you can proceed to the "romantic" castle of Gradara, to the
republic of San Marino (three castles, although perhaps too many
tourists) and through the Montefeltro with the impressive fortress of
San Leo. Then you should enter Marche and visit at least Urbino with its
ducal palace (the view of the Torricini is unforgettable). You could
proceed south, and visit some of the nice inside villages (there is a
small fortress in Mondavio, but most of the villages and towns are worth
seeing by themselves).
At some time you could turn west (if you do it soon you'll end in
Umbria, if you go further south you'll end in Lazio. May be going down
to Lazio and Rome, then up to Tuscany and Florence, then into Umbria and
back that way ? or viceversa ?
I already quoted you some places in Lazio, you will find yourselves
plenty in Umbria and Tuscany. In Perugia you could be interested in the
ruins of Rocca Paolina, a fortress which was built by Pope Paul III to
control the Perugini, demolishing part of the medieval town. The
fortress was then demolished by the Perugini after the independence, and
one can now walk in the fortress dungeons, which are the ancient
medieval streets.
--
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Feb 16th 2004, 2:49 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
On 15 Feb 2004 23:46:59 -0800, [email protected] (Juu) wrote:
>Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
>on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
>starting from the North).
>My personal priorities are:
>a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
>last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
>where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
>little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
>b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
>preferrably diverse
>c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
>d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
>have no equipment and not much stamina
>e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
>My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
>well, whether I want to or not.
>I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
>a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
I agree with others that the best places would be Tuscany, Umbria and
Le Marche. The local dialects in these areas are not much different
from standard Italian. Of these three regions, Tuscany is very
crowded in July and you might have trouble finding lodging without
reservations well in advance. Of the three, Le Marche has the least
tourism.
Judith has appointed me the Le Marche expert, so here is my advice for
castles in that region.
Giovanni has already mentioned Gradara (which is a sort of phony
castle, totally reconstructed with someone's whimsical idea of what it
once looked like) and San Marino. (San Marino is really an independent
state on the border of Le Marche.)
I will add San Leo, which is a spectacular castle on a high cliff not
far from San Marino.
Also, Urbino, which is a delightful town and has a very beautiful
Ducal Palace with a museum inside. Even if you don't like art, it is
interesting to see the rooms of the palace, and you can also visit the
cellars and the kitchen below the palace.
Another very nice castle in Frontone. It is privately owned, but there
are tours arranged. I have never managed to see the inside since its
recent restoration. It is in a tiny hilltop town, with a very good and
inexpensive restaurant. Nearby is a very beautiful 10th century
monastery on the slopes of Mount Catria, which has some nice hiking
trails.
There is a very nice castle in Caldarara, which is also privately
owned, but has tours (in Italian only). This castle was inhabited for
over 800 years, and you can see the life style of the owners from the
middle ages until the early 20th century.
There are lots and lots of small walled towns with fortifications in
Le Marche. You can hardly move around without seeing one. Some are
very tiny, and I find these especially charming.
Piticchio is a tiny walled and fortified town. Loreto is even tinier.
There is a little guard tower, three tiny rooms one over the other, in
which somebody still lives.
Mondavio has a large guard tower with a small museum of armaments
inside.
Corinaldo (where I live) has an intact medieval wall with a number of
guard towers and original medieval gates.
These are only a few of the many I could mention.
There are also many nice hiking trails in Le Marche, but it would be
hard to explain how to reach them. I know an especially nice one
called the Gola del Infernaccio, but my husband and I had a difficult
time to find it the first time we went. Probably your best possibility
is to ask where you are staying if they can tell you of any nice
trails nearby. Be careful, as I find the trail marking to be somewhat
lacking in Italy.
There are also some very nice small rural roads that make nice walks
in the vicinity of any small town in the region. My husband and I
often take long walks on the narrow country roads near our town, none
of which are marked for hiking, but all of which are pleasant walks.
>b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
>campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
In Le Marche, except at the seashore, you should be able to find
double rooms in the vicinity of 50 a night. Some B&B's and agritourist
places will be less.
>c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
I would say yes in Tuscany. Even in the other regions, I would try to
reserve a few days ahead at least. Where I live, the weekends are not
particularly more crowded than weekdays. Many of the tourists that
come here come for a week or more. Some of them are from families that
moved to the city years ago and that come here to get away from the
heat and visit relatives.
>d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
>of landscape, architecture, people?
Well, it's different for sure, but it's hard to summarize in what
ways. Every region of Italy has its own distinctive flavor. I can't
just group the regions into "southern" and "northern".
The farther you get from central Italy, in either direction, the more
the dialects differ from standard Italian.
>e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
>instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
>of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
I would say that with the time you have available, and the necessity
of stopping in Rome and Florence, you should go to just one other
place and do some hiking around there.
> Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
>still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
To avoid the heat, go to the higher altitudes. Since Italy has a
mountain range right down the center, this isn't too difficult.
>) Does it make sense to go back through
>Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
>We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
I would think you won't have much time left except to drive through.
You could leave this decision to the last minute.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
>Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
>on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
>starting from the North).
>My personal priorities are:
>a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
>last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
>where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
>little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
>b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
>preferrably diverse
>c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
>d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
>have no equipment and not much stamina
>e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
>My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
>well, whether I want to or not.
>I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
>a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
I agree with others that the best places would be Tuscany, Umbria and
Le Marche. The local dialects in these areas are not much different
from standard Italian. Of these three regions, Tuscany is very
crowded in July and you might have trouble finding lodging without
reservations well in advance. Of the three, Le Marche has the least
tourism.
Judith has appointed me the Le Marche expert, so here is my advice for
castles in that region.
Giovanni has already mentioned Gradara (which is a sort of phony
castle, totally reconstructed with someone's whimsical idea of what it
once looked like) and San Marino. (San Marino is really an independent
state on the border of Le Marche.)
I will add San Leo, which is a spectacular castle on a high cliff not
far from San Marino.
Also, Urbino, which is a delightful town and has a very beautiful
Ducal Palace with a museum inside. Even if you don't like art, it is
interesting to see the rooms of the palace, and you can also visit the
cellars and the kitchen below the palace.
Another very nice castle in Frontone. It is privately owned, but there
are tours arranged. I have never managed to see the inside since its
recent restoration. It is in a tiny hilltop town, with a very good and
inexpensive restaurant. Nearby is a very beautiful 10th century
monastery on the slopes of Mount Catria, which has some nice hiking
trails.
There is a very nice castle in Caldarara, which is also privately
owned, but has tours (in Italian only). This castle was inhabited for
over 800 years, and you can see the life style of the owners from the
middle ages until the early 20th century.
There are lots and lots of small walled towns with fortifications in
Le Marche. You can hardly move around without seeing one. Some are
very tiny, and I find these especially charming.
Piticchio is a tiny walled and fortified town. Loreto is even tinier.
There is a little guard tower, three tiny rooms one over the other, in
which somebody still lives.
Mondavio has a large guard tower with a small museum of armaments
inside.
Corinaldo (where I live) has an intact medieval wall with a number of
guard towers and original medieval gates.
These are only a few of the many I could mention.
There are also many nice hiking trails in Le Marche, but it would be
hard to explain how to reach them. I know an especially nice one
called the Gola del Infernaccio, but my husband and I had a difficult
time to find it the first time we went. Probably your best possibility
is to ask where you are staying if they can tell you of any nice
trails nearby. Be careful, as I find the trail marking to be somewhat
lacking in Italy.
There are also some very nice small rural roads that make nice walks
in the vicinity of any small town in the region. My husband and I
often take long walks on the narrow country roads near our town, none
of which are marked for hiking, but all of which are pleasant walks.
>b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
>campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
In Le Marche, except at the seashore, you should be able to find
double rooms in the vicinity of 50 a night. Some B&B's and agritourist
places will be less.
>c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
I would say yes in Tuscany. Even in the other regions, I would try to
reserve a few days ahead at least. Where I live, the weekends are not
particularly more crowded than weekdays. Many of the tourists that
come here come for a week or more. Some of them are from families that
moved to the city years ago and that come here to get away from the
heat and visit relatives.
>d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
>of landscape, architecture, people?
Well, it's different for sure, but it's hard to summarize in what
ways. Every region of Italy has its own distinctive flavor. I can't
just group the regions into "southern" and "northern".
The farther you get from central Italy, in either direction, the more
the dialects differ from standard Italian.
>e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
>instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
>of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
I would say that with the time you have available, and the necessity
of stopping in Rome and Florence, you should go to just one other
place and do some hiking around there.
> Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
>still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
To avoid the heat, go to the higher altitudes. Since Italy has a
mountain range right down the center, this isn't too difficult.
>) Does it make sense to go back through
>Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
>We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
I would think you won't have much time left except to drive through.
You could leave this decision to the last minute.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Feb 16th 2004, 3:03 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
Ronald,
Judith,
Giovanni,
Thank you for your comments / Grazie per le vostre response.
A few quick responses:
a) Thanks for the Lunigiana suggestion - I was looking exactly for a
suggestion for where to stay in Tuscany area!
b) The heat I'm worried about, but our schedules don't permit an
earlier time. We'll hopefully be able to go for a swim often enough.
c) Somehow there always seem many more cathedrals/churches around than
fortresses/castles (the latter are more likely to be destroyed and
less likely to be rebuilt perhaps?), so if I go out of my way to find
castles I arrive at a balance that works for me.
d) We'll definately try "agriturismo" - I assume that's the Italian
equivalent of B&B in the countryside, right?
e) It should be "only" a 24h drive from Riga, all four of us can
drive, and we will likely lay over somewhere in Germany or Czech
Republic. I've never done such a drive, but given the ridiculously
expensive prices our airlines charge it is the cheapest, if not the
most pleasant, way to get to Western Europe (and bring a means of
transportation with us).
Best regards,
Juris.
Judith,
Giovanni,
Thank you for your comments / Grazie per le vostre response.
A few quick responses:
a) Thanks for the Lunigiana suggestion - I was looking exactly for a
suggestion for where to stay in Tuscany area!
b) The heat I'm worried about, but our schedules don't permit an
earlier time. We'll hopefully be able to go for a swim often enough.
c) Somehow there always seem many more cathedrals/churches around than
fortresses/castles (the latter are more likely to be destroyed and
less likely to be rebuilt perhaps?), so if I go out of my way to find
castles I arrive at a balance that works for me.
d) We'll definately try "agriturismo" - I assume that's the Italian
equivalent of B&B in the countryside, right?
e) It should be "only" a 24h drive from Riga, all four of us can
drive, and we will likely lay over somewhere in Germany or Czech
Republic. I've never done such a drive, but given the ridiculously
expensive prices our airlines charge it is the cheapest, if not the
most pleasant, way to get to Western Europe (and bring a means of
transportation with us).
Best regards,
Juris.
Feb 16th 2004, 4:21 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
On 16 Feb 2004 08:03:21 -0800, [email protected] (Juu) wrote:
>b) The heat I'm worried about, but our schedules don't permit an
>earlier time. We'll hopefully be able to go for a swim often enough.
Other than the seaside, there won't be many swimming possibilities.
And the seaside is very crowded and parking is not easy to find at
that time of the year. If you want to see castles, you will mostly be
further inland, anyway.
>c) Somehow there always seem many more cathedrals/churches around than
>fortresses/castles (the latter are more likely to be destroyed and
>less likely to be rebuilt perhaps?), so if I go out of my way to find
>castles I arrive at a balance that works for me.
Italy has thousands of castles and fortresses. Many are just part of
the town walls. In the part of Le Marche where I live more than half
of the towns have some sort of fortification, many very well
preserved. I would say that they receive little tourist attention
precisely because there are so many of them.
Some are not open to the public, or only on certain occasions. There
is a beautiful castle near us that is hardly ever open, called La
Rancia. We went to an antiques exhibit there, even though we aren't
very interested in antiques, just because we wanted to see the inside
of the castle. The ones I mentioned in my last post are just a
sampling of the castles within a short drive of my house. As soon as I
had sent it, I began to remember others.
>d) We'll definately try "agriturismo" - I assume that's the Italian
>equivalent of B&B in the countryside, right?
More or less.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
>b) The heat I'm worried about, but our schedules don't permit an
>earlier time. We'll hopefully be able to go for a swim often enough.
Other than the seaside, there won't be many swimming possibilities.
And the seaside is very crowded and parking is not easy to find at
that time of the year. If you want to see castles, you will mostly be
further inland, anyway.
>c) Somehow there always seem many more cathedrals/churches around than
>fortresses/castles (the latter are more likely to be destroyed and
>less likely to be rebuilt perhaps?), so if I go out of my way to find
>castles I arrive at a balance that works for me.
Italy has thousands of castles and fortresses. Many are just part of
the town walls. In the part of Le Marche where I live more than half
of the towns have some sort of fortification, many very well
preserved. I would say that they receive little tourist attention
precisely because there are so many of them.
Some are not open to the public, or only on certain occasions. There
is a beautiful castle near us that is hardly ever open, called La
Rancia. We went to an antiques exhibit there, even though we aren't
very interested in antiques, just because we wanted to see the inside
of the castle. The ones I mentioned in my last post are just a
sampling of the castles within a short drive of my house. As soon as I
had sent it, I began to remember others.
>d) We'll definately try "agriturismo" - I assume that's the Italian
>equivalent of B&B in the countryside, right?
More or less.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Feb 16th 2004, 4:22 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:49:36 +0100, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:
>There is a very nice castle in Caldarara, which is also privately
>owned, but has tours (in Italian only). This castle was inhabited for
>over 800 years, and you can see the life style of the owners from the
>middle ages until the early 20th century.
Actually, I think that's Caldarola now that I think of it.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
>There is a very nice castle in Caldarara, which is also privately
>owned, but has tours (in Italian only). This castle was inhabited for
>over 800 years, and you can see the life style of the owners from the
>middle ages until the early 20th century.
Actually, I think that's Caldarola now that I think of it.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Feb 16th 2004, 5:10 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
On 16 Feb 2004, Juu wrote:
> d) We'll definately try "agriturismo" - I assume that's the Italian
> equivalent of B&B in the countryside, right?
Well, an "agriturismo" should be a real farm, not just a guesthouse in
the countryside, I mean that according to the law, farming shall be the
primary source of income of the owner. Some of those places may
practice biological agriculture, or anyhow sell their own products.
Often they also offer other meals not just breakfast (*).
Unfortunately I'm just the opposite of you, i.e. do not drive at all, so
I never had the opportunity to stay in an agriturismo for the night,
since they are not in a place close to a train station !
However I once stopped for lunch (with a group) in a nice one. In the
case you drive from Rome to Florence along the coast (more precisely
along the old via Aurelia) you will find it (it is called Agriturismo
Valle del Marta) near Tarquinia. You may take the opportunity to visit
the Etruscan museum at Palazzo Vitelli, and the underground painted
tombs on the Tarquinia archeological site.
(*) you should be aware that most places offer a convenient rate for
full board (pensione completa) or half board (mezza pensione) if you
stay at least 3 nights. Not likely to be useful to you, unless you
decide to make a base somewhere and do day trips.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] is a newsreading account used by more persons to
avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.
> d) We'll definately try "agriturismo" - I assume that's the Italian
> equivalent of B&B in the countryside, right?
Well, an "agriturismo" should be a real farm, not just a guesthouse in
the countryside, I mean that according to the law, farming shall be the
primary source of income of the owner. Some of those places may
practice biological agriculture, or anyhow sell their own products.
Often they also offer other meals not just breakfast (*).
Unfortunately I'm just the opposite of you, i.e. do not drive at all, so
I never had the opportunity to stay in an agriturismo for the night,
since they are not in a place close to a train station !
However I once stopped for lunch (with a group) in a nice one. In the
case you drive from Rome to Florence along the coast (more precisely
along the old via Aurelia) you will find it (it is called Agriturismo
Valle del Marta) near Tarquinia. You may take the opportunity to visit
the Etruscan museum at Palazzo Vitelli, and the underground painted
tombs on the Tarquinia archeological site.
(*) you should be aware that most places offer a convenient rate for
full board (pensione completa) or half board (mezza pensione) if you
stay at least 3 nights. Not likely to be useful to you, unless you
decide to make a base somewhere and do day trips.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] is a newsreading account used by more persons to
avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.
Feb 16th 2004, 5:12 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
For what it is worth: there is general agreement that the most perfect
Italian is spoken in Siena. The enunciation elegant, the vowel sounds are
spot on, and the pace is a tiny bit slower than in other places.-- makes it
easier to pick up proper pronunciation.
(Now I will hear from dozens of offended Italians.)
rjf
"Juu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
> Best regards,
> Juris.
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
Italian is spoken in Siena. The enunciation elegant, the vowel sounds are
spot on, and the pace is a tiny bit slower than in other places.-- makes it
easier to pick up proper pronunciation.
(Now I will hear from dozens of offended Italians.)
rjf
"Juu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
> Best regards,
> Juris.
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
Feb 16th 2004, 5:24 am
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
Driving is not all that difficult -- it is mirror image, and everything very
quickly falls into place. (Reverse is sometimes confusing at first). The
British drive all over the continent on wrong-way roads, and they have no
more accidents than they do at home ( long pause). The French ( esp.
city-folk) find driving in Britain to be wonderfully relaxing.
rjf
"Juu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
> Best regards,
> Juris.
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
quickly falls into place. (Reverse is sometimes confusing at first). The
British drive all over the continent on wrong-way roads, and they have no
more accidents than they do at home ( long pause). The French ( esp.
city-folk) find driving in Britain to be wonderfully relaxing.
rjf
"Juu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
> Best regards,
> Juris.
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
Feb 16th 2004, 6:43 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
First of all
I do not know whether they can make Riga/italy in 24 hours..
there are a few border crossings
and they will all take their time.
In 12 days i would limit myself to
Venice
Firenze
Rome
Naples
Pompei
not only poeple need to visit towns
but time to get to the towns and find their accomodations.
Unless they just want to drive..
these 5 towns are more than enough
Unless they want to travel the Japanese way..
( if it is monday. it must be Venice )
as to Sicily..
there are ferries from Livorno as far as I know..
"Juu" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
> Best regards,
> Juris.
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
I do not know whether they can make Riga/italy in 24 hours..
there are a few border crossings
and they will all take their time.
In 12 days i would limit myself to
Venice
Firenze
Rome
Naples
Pompei
not only poeple need to visit towns
but time to get to the towns and find their accomodations.
Unless they just want to drive..
these 5 towns are more than enough
Unless they want to travel the Japanese way..
( if it is monday. it must be Venice )
as to Sicily..
there are ferries from Livorno as far as I know..
"Juu" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
> g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
> Best regards,
> Juris.
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
Feb 16th 2004, 2:32 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
[email protected] (Juu) wrote in news:f697e0e8.0402152346.493698c1
@posting.google.com:
Do Not Overlook Abruzzo, it offers a lot of what you want and the big
plus is the lack of tourists (except for Italian tourists
> Hi,
>
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
>
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
Not much English spoken in Abruzzo so you can get plenty of practice.
People are friendly but if you run into an dialect it will be difficult.
The contemporary Italian is as good as anywhere else (except Tuscany,
home of the modern Italian language).
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
You can't beat Abruzzo for this…mountains, hills, lakes, seaside, high
plains, National Parks, roman and pre-roman ruins (Alba Fucens, Sulmona,
Teramo), caves, rivers, erosion furrows (Atri and Mutignano).
Towns such as Castelli, Atri, Pescocostanza, Sulmona, Scanno, Santo
Stefano di Sessiano, Pietracamela, Silvi, Vasto, Loreto Aprutino,
Introdaqua, Pettorano sul Gizio
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
Fortezza Civitella del Tronto (last outpost of the Kingdom of Due Sicilie
and largest Fortress in Italy), Rocca di Calascio (highest small fortress
in the Appenines), Pettorano sul Gizio, Celano, Monteodorisio,
Capestrano, Spanish Castle in L'Aquila (most in some state of ruin
unfortunately)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
This is where Abruzzo shines. National Park of Abruzzo (Pescasseroli),
Prati di Tivo (take the cable car to the Corno Piccolo at Gran Sasso),
Cesacastina and the Valley of the Hundred Waterfalls, Stiffe and
Cavallone (grottos). You cannot go wrong with any of these.
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
Near Chieti, near Teramo (Illuminati), near Loreto Aprutino - DOC,
Montepulciano D'Abruzzo, Trebbiano d'Abbruzzo, Cerasuolo. Not only good
but inexpensive
>
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
From Abruzzo, Rome is a 2-3 hour drive so you don't go too far south and
lose your time traveling.
>
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
I do not think you have enouch time for this plan
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
>
If you're in the mountains it is quite pleasant.
g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
The best is Fortezza Civatella del Tronto, currently undergoing
renovations and a good bit of 17th and 18th century history here.
>
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
>
> Best regards,
> Juris.
>
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
@posting.google.com:
Do Not Overlook Abruzzo, it offers a lot of what you want and the big
plus is the lack of tourists (except for Italian tourists
> Hi,
>
> Four of us are planning a two-week car trip from Riga, Latvia to Italy
> on the last two weeks of July (so only around 12 days in Italy,
> starting from the North).
>
> My personal priorities are:
> a) Language tourism - I've tried to learn a tiny bit of Italian in the
> last year and would like to reinforce it as much as I can (so going to
> where English is not spoken, but people are friendly and speak with
> little accent would be best - but is probably a pipe-dream),
Not much English spoken in Abruzzo so you can get plenty of practice.
People are friendly but if you run into an dialect it will be difficult.
The contemporary Italian is as good as anywhere else (except Tuscany,
home of the modern Italian language).
> b) Nice relaxed countryside/landscapes/wilderness and small villages -
> preferrably diverse
You can't beat Abruzzo for this…mountains, hills, lakes, seaside, high
plains, National Parks, roman and pre-roman ruins (Alba Fucens, Sulmona,
Teramo), caves, rivers, erosion furrows (Atri and Mutignano).
Towns such as Castelli, Atri, Pescocostanza, Sulmona, Scanno, Santo
Stefano di Sessiano, Pietracamela, Silvi, Vasto, Loreto Aprutino,
Introdaqua, Pettorano sul Gizio
> c) Old castles (I don't care so much for cathedrals and fine arts)
Fortezza Civitella del Tronto (last outpost of the Kingdom of Due Sicilie
and largest Fortress in Italy), Rocca di Calascio (highest small fortress
in the Appenines), Pettorano sul Gizio, Celano, Monteodorisio,
Capestrano, Spanish Castle in L'Aquila (most in some state of ruin
unfortunately)
> d) Perhaps a few days of hiking in the mountains, but not serious - we
> have no equipment and not much stamina
This is where Abruzzo shines. National Park of Abruzzo (Pescasseroli),
Prati di Tivo (take the cable car to the Corno Piccolo at Gran Sasso),
Cesacastina and the Valley of the Hundred Waterfalls, Stiffe and
Cavallone (grottos). You cannot go wrong with any of these.
> e) Seeing some wineyards, tasting some wine
Near Chieti, near Teramo (Illuminati), near Loreto Aprutino - DOC,
Montepulciano D'Abruzzo, Trebbiano d'Abbruzzo, Cerasuolo. Not only good
but inexpensive
>
> My compagnions will make me go to (at least) Rome and Florence as
> well, whether I want to or not.
From Abruzzo, Rome is a 2-3 hour drive so you don't go too far south and
lose your time traveling.
>
> I hoped perhaps you can answer these questions:
> a) Which regions are best for language tourism?
> b) Considering staying in B&Bs, small hotels and (as a last resort)
> campgrounds, what should be the accomodations budget?
> c) Are reservations a must? Only on weekends?
> d) How much does Southern Italy differs from Northern Italy in terms
> of landscape, architecture, people?
> e) Should we go all the way down to Sicily or ferry over to Corsica
> instead? I guess Corsica is wilder, but going there means we miss all
> of southern Italy. Whose dialect is worse?
I do not think you have enouch time for this plan
> f) Will the temperatures be unbearable, or only in the south? July is
> still better than August from the crowds and heat perspective, right?
>
If you're in the mountains it is quite pleasant.
g) Does it make sense to go back through
> Slovenia/Croatia/Hungary/Slovakia at the expense of time in Italy?
> We're likely just to make a judgment call on this I guess.
> h) Any other advice or suggestions you can offer, esp. as to where to
> find fortresses in Italy? I'd presume there would be a bunch, but most
> tourism books talk of cathedrals and artwork instead (and mention
> Milan and Ferrara).
The best is Fortezza Civatella del Tronto, currently undergoing
renovations and a good bit of 17th and 18th century history here.
>
> Thanks in advance and apologies for the many questions - any answer to
> any one of the questions will be much appreciated (they're in
> prioritized order).
>
> Best regards,
> Juris.
>
> P.S. We evaluated going back through
> Greece/Bulgary/Rumania/Hungary/Slovakia, but figured it's too much too
> quickly.
Feb 17th 2004, 12:56 am
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:10:23 +0100, Giovanni Drogo
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 16 Feb 2004, Juu wrote:
>> d) We'll definately try "agriturismo" - I assume that's the Italian
>> equivalent of B&B in the countryside, right?
>Well, an "agriturismo" should be a real farm, not just a guesthouse in
>the countryside, I mean that according to the law, farming shall be the
>primary source of income of the owner. Some of those places may
>practice biological agriculture, or anyhow sell their own products.
>Often they also offer other meals not just breakfast (*).
There are a lot of agriturismo places near me where farming is largely
a fiction. I thought that they only had to have some portion of their
income from farming. Some people around here seem to keep a few
beehives out back to comply with the "agricultural" part of the deal.
As a matter of fact, some agriturismo restaurants are
indistinguishable from any other restaurant. They have huge dining
rooms and do an extensive business in wedding parties. The other
restaurants tend to resent this, as they are competing on a
not-exactly-level playing ground. The agriturismo restaurants are
exempt from a number of regulations regarding their employees and
other things and I think they also have tax advantages.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 16 Feb 2004, Juu wrote:
>> d) We'll definately try "agriturismo" - I assume that's the Italian
>> equivalent of B&B in the countryside, right?
>Well, an "agriturismo" should be a real farm, not just a guesthouse in
>the countryside, I mean that according to the law, farming shall be the
>primary source of income of the owner. Some of those places may
>practice biological agriculture, or anyhow sell their own products.
>Often they also offer other meals not just breakfast (*).
There are a lot of agriturismo places near me where farming is largely
a fiction. I thought that they only had to have some portion of their
income from farming. Some people around here seem to keep a few
beehives out back to comply with the "agricultural" part of the deal.
As a matter of fact, some agriturismo restaurants are
indistinguishable from any other restaurant. They have huge dining
rooms and do an extensive business in wedding parties. The other
restaurants tend to resent this, as they are competing on a
not-exactly-level playing ground. The agriturismo restaurants are
exempt from a number of regulations regarding their employees and
other things and I think they also have tax advantages.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Feb 18th 2004, 5:05 am
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Italy in late July
In article <[email protected] >, [email protected]
(Juu) wrote:
> c) Somehow there always seem many more cathedrals/churches around than
> fortresses/castles (the latter are more likely to be destroyed and
> less likely to be rebuilt perhaps?)
Also many "castles" are really just fortified houses which remain in
private hands.
(Juu) wrote:
> c) Somehow there always seem many more cathedrals/churches around than
> fortresses/castles (the latter are more likely to be destroyed and
> less likely to be rebuilt perhaps?)
Also many "castles" are really just fortified houses which remain in
private hands.
