Ned Gatewood

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We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We wish to visit
smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this possible?), and
the high cost of city hotels. Any suggestions of cities and towns that
are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be appreciated. Also, hotel
recommendations would be great too!
Thanks a million.
Ned

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Mason Barge

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:28:24 -0500, Ned Gatewood wrote:

    >We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We wish to visit
    >smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this possible?), and
    >the high cost of city hotels. Any suggestions of cities and towns that
    >are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be appreciated. Also, hotel
    >recommendations would be great too!
    >Thanks a million.
    >Ned

One place you will definitely want to visit is Tuscany and Umbria. There are
several dozen very nice little hill towns, such as Montalcino (great great place
for wine), Montepulciano, and Cortona. Siena is a small city that is not too
bad for a car. Also more heavily touristed places such as Lucca and San
Gimigniano are in the area.
--
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
- Abraham Lincoln

Ken Blake

"Mason Barge" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


    > One place you will definitely want to visit is Tuscany and
Umbria. There are
    > several dozen very nice little hill towns, such as Montalcino
(great great place
    > for wine), Montepulciano, and Cortona. Siena is a small city
that is not too
    > bad for a car. Also more heavily touristed places such as
Lucca and San
    > Gimigniano are in the area.


If you meant to say that Lucca is more heavily-touristed than
Siena, I disagree strongly.

Also you can't drive in most of downtown Siena. Lucca too has a
pedestrian zone where cars aren't allowed.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Avvocato

Ned Gatewood wrote in news:3EE63158.51613096
@ksu.edu:

    > We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We
wish to
    > visit smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this
    > possible?), and the high cost of city hotels. Any
suggestions of
    > cities and towns that are not spoiled by crowds of tourist
will be
    > appreciated. Also, hotel recommendations would be great
too!
    > Thanks a million.
    > Ned
    >
Ned:
Try the regions of Abruzzo (can be done in conjunction with
Umbria), Also take a look at Puglia, Basilicata or Calabria.
(off the beaten path and all kinda neat).

Lostcherree

I just got back from a month of backpacking and I would recommend going to
Como (about a 45 minute train ride [north], not sure what that would be in
car time :P, from Milano)... the area is beautiful... I didn't find it too
crowded, but I also went around midMay, so it might be more crowded now...
I also biked through many of the towns on the lake and they were all
pretty, maybe Maslianico or Cernobbio or Moltrasio would be good because
they are right outside of Como ... I would definitely look into Como and
the whole lake area ...great place to relax, eat gelato, and bike...

I thought the hostel was great, one of my favorites, but you're looking for
a hotel :P

Heather

Ned Gatewood wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We wish to
    > visit smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this
    > possible?), and the high cost of city hotels. Any suggestions of
    > cities and towns that are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be
    > appreciated. Also, hotel recommendations would be great too!
    > Thanks a million.
    > Ned
    >
    > Attachment decoded: untitled-2.txt
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Barbara Vaughan

Mason Barge wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:28:24 -0500, Ned Gatewood wrote:
    >
    > >We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We wish to visit
    > >smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this possible?), and
    > >the high cost of city hotels. Any suggestions of cities and towns that
    > >are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be appreciated. Also, hotel
    > >recommendations would be great too!
    > >Thanks a million.
    > >Ned
    >
    > One place you will definitely want to visit is Tuscany and Umbria. There are
    > several dozen very nice little hill towns, such as Montalcino (great great place
    > for wine), Montepulciano, and Cortona. Siena is a small city that is not too
    > bad for a car. Also more heavily touristed places such as Lucca and San
    > Gimigniano are in the area.

We were in Tuscany (Montalcino, Siena, Lucca, San Gimignano and
Montepulciano)and found crowds everywhere. Not to say the area isn't
beautiful, but if the idea is to avoid crowds, I would go elsewhere, as
it will be much worse in the summer. San Gimignano in particular had a
major parking problem. We had to park in a ditch a good distance from
the town. All the lots were full, and a policewoman was turning people
back. Lucca was the least crowded of the towns I list above, and was a
very pleasant small city.

Umbria is likely to be less crowded than Tuscany and has some lovely
towns. I can mention Todi, Gubbio, Orvieto, Assisi and Spello as
particular favorites.

I live in Le Marche, which is east of Tuscany and Umbria and has very
much the same type of countryside, with many fewer tourists. However, it
also lacks much of the tourist infrastructure, although every good-sized
town has at least one hotel, and there are a number of agriturismo
facilities. Urbino is a very beautiful small city with an exquisite
ducal palace. There are many, many lovely small towns, including the
town where I live, Corinaldo, which is surrounded by an intact medieval
wall.

Barbara





    > --
    > "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
    > - Abraham Lincoln

Vivacarnia

If you want visit small towns and you don't want find crowds
everywhere, try the area of Carnia, in the Region of Friuli Venezia
Giulia.
Really you can visit in this Region Trieste, Gorizia and Udine. In the
Friuli you can find nice towns, very good wine(verduzzo, ramandolo and
many others) and cuisine.
But if you want the quiet and nature and if you like very nice small
towns, try the area of Carnia. In particulary I suggest you Sauris
(http://sauris.com) with a beatiful lake and marvellous houses.
Bye
[email protected]
http://digilander.libero.it/raveo



lostcherree wrote in message news:...
    > I just got back from a month of backpacking and I would recommend going to
    > Como (about a 45 minute train ride [north], not sure what that would be in
    > car time :P, from Milano)... the area is beautiful... I didn't find it too
    > crowded, but I also went around midMay, so it might be more crowded now...
    > I also biked through many of the towns on the lake and they were all
    > pretty, maybe Maslianico or Cernobbio or Moltrasio would be good because
    > they are right outside of Como ... I would definitely look into Como and
    > the whole lake area ...great place to relax, eat gelato, and bike...
    >
    > I thought the hostel was great, one of my favorites, but you're looking for
    > a hotel :P
    >
    > Heather
    >
    > Ned Gatewood wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We wish to
    > > visit smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this
    > > possible?), and the high cost of city hotels. Any suggestions of
    > > cities and towns that are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be
    > > appreciated. Also, hotel recommendations would be great too!
    > > Thanks a million.
    > > Ned
    > >
    > > Attachment decoded: untitled-2.txt
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    > > n:Gatewood;Ned
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    > > version:2.1
    > > email;internet:[email protected]
    > > title:Associate University Architect
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    > > University=0D=0A=0D=0A;Manhattan;Kansas;66506;USA fn:Ned Gatewood
    > > end:vcard
    > >
    > > Attachment decoded: ngatewd.vcf
    > > --------------6C642BA82BB857154E12D12E--

Ds

"Ned Gatewood" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We wish to visit
    > smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this possible?), and
    > the high cost of city hotels. Any suggestions of cities and towns that
    > are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be appreciated. Also, hotel
    > recommendations would be great too!
    > Thanks a million.
    > Ned
Desirable destinations - small or large - will be crowded and smaller cities
that
are tourist centered are likely to be just as expensive as cities, depending
on
the quality and amenities of the hotel. You can stay as cheaply in Rome
as you can in Siena for example.
If you really want to get away from the crowds, you can head for less
travelled
parts of Sicily although I was there in the spring and summertime may be a
different
story. Good place with a car too. Avoid Taormina if you don't want crowds.
Dennis

News Tin.It

"Ned Gatewood" ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
    > We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We wish to visit
    > smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this possible?), and
    > the high cost of city hotels. Any suggestions of cities and towns that
    > are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be appreciated. Also, hotel
    > recommendations would be great too!
    > Thanks a million.
    > Ned

Come and visit Maremma, south Tuscany: Massa Marittima, Uccellina Regional
Park, Pitigliano, Sorano and lots of unknow ancient towns not crowded of
tourists and 150 Km. of sand beaches.
Enjoy Italy and Tuscany
Riccardo
For some information

Judith Umbria

"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > We were in Tuscany (Montalcino, Siena, Lucca, San Gimignano and
    > Montepulciano)and found crowds everywhere. > Umbria is likely to be less
crowded than Tuscany and has some lovely
    > towns. I can mention Todi, Gubbio, Orvieto, Assisi and Spello as
    > particular favorites.
    > I live in Le Marche, which is east of Tuscany and Umbria and has very
    > much the same type of countryside, with many fewer tourists. However, it
    > also lacks much of the tourist infrastructure, although every good-sized
    > town has at least one hotel, and there are a number of agriturismo
    > facilities. Urbino is a very beautiful small city with an exquisite
    > ducal palace. There are many, many lovely small towns, including the
    > town where I live, Corinaldo, which is surrounded by an intact medieval
    > wall.
    > Barbara

As to Umbria, Assisi is crammed with tourists all year round, and in the
summer many of the southern towns are quite busy too. "Getting away" is
much easier in northern Umbria, starting at Perugia.
In le Marches, Corinaldo is a gorgeous small city, and is in an interesting
area that can be seen on a website for Valcesena.
http://www.valcesano.com/eng/index.htm
A friend and I spent some days traveling there last November and saw lots of
Roman and Medieval sites as we wound throughg from Cagli to the sea.
Pergola, for example, has some exquisite Roman gilded bronze statuary that
give one a look at the reality of Romans in their physical aspect. These
are not iconic images, but look like portraits of living people. All the
cities were interesting and smallish, and there were tiny walled villages so
perfect it took your breath away. I can't remember all the names now, but I
recall visiting a castle from about 1000AD that was a perfect example of
that era's castle architecture which changed the entire western world at the
time. We also unsuccessfully laid seige to a monastery hidden in a windy
valley which is famous for its scriptorium. There are very limited hours
and we missed them by 5 minutes. We shopped fresh seafood from the beach in
the morning where boats were pulled up on the shingle while fishermen sorted
the catch.
Among all the places we went, I judged Corinaldo to be the prettiest and
most friendly place I've seen in ages. I would stay there next time I
traveled that area.

Barbara Vaughan

Judith Umbria wrote:
    >

    > A friend and I spent some days traveling there [in Le Marche] last November and saw lots of
    > Roman and Medieval sites as we wound throughg from Cagli to the sea.
    > Pergola, for example, has some exquisite Roman gilded bronze statuary that
    > give one a look at the reality of Romans in their physical aspect. These
    > are not iconic images, but look like portraits of living people.

    > ... All the
    > cities were interesting and smallish, and there were tiny walled villages so
    > perfect it took your breath away.

Two of my favorites are Piticchio and Loretello, tiny little fortified
guardposts. You can walk all around them in 15 minutes, and not a
tourist nor a postcard in sight. Piticchio has one bar, and Loretello
doesn't even have that. I take visitors to both towns about once every
two years, and the bartender in Piticchio knew me after the second
visit, which gives you an idea of how many tourists he sees.

    > I can't remember all the names now, but I
    > recall visiting a castle from about 1000AD that was a perfect example of
    > that era's castle architecture which changed the entire western world at the
    > time.

I'm curious which castle that was. There is a marvelous castle at
Frontone, and another in Calderola. Both date from around that period.
I've never been inside the castle at Frontone, which was being renovated
until fairly recently. The castle at Calderola is still owned by the
original family, who lived in it until the mid 20th century and still
use it for family gatherings. There is an interesting guided tour (in
Italian only). The castle has displays that cover centuries of castle
life, from armour to antique automobiles.

    > We also unsuccessfully laid seige to a monastery hidden in a windy
    > valley which is famous for its scriptorium. There are very limited hours
    > and we missed them by 5 minutes.

Was that Fonte Avellano? If so, you'll have to come back for the tour
(which is also in Italian only). But even if you can't understand the
Italian, you'll get a look at one of the few scriptoriums (lacking
furniture, unfortunately) that has never been remodelled, so that you
can see how the natural lighting worked so that there was never a shadow
on the manuscripts. The inventor of modern musical notation (Guido
d'Arezzo) was a monk at this monastery, and sometimes they have displays
of his manuscripts. Most of the monastery's vast manuscript collection
is now at the Vatican, however. This was a very wealthy monastery in the
12th and 13th centuries, and the two tiny walled villages I mentioned
were guardposts to protect it from bandits. You can actually see one of
these guardpost from the other, so that they could signal each other.

    > Among all the places we went, I judged Corinaldo to be the prettiest and
    > most friendly place I've seen in ages. I would stay there next time I
    > traveled that area.

Thanks, Judith! You really have to return. They've finished the work on
the central 100-step street (actually I count 198 steps) and it looks
very nice. There's a move underway to get rid of the well in the middle
of the steps, which was a 1970's addition, or at least to move it to its
original location on one of the side streets.

Corinaldo is a perfect example of medieval military architecture. The
oldest part of the town has the form of a Germanic castle town, with
streets forming concentric circles with the presumed long-anished castle
at the center. The later part of the town (15th century!) has a grid
plan, which reflects a later military style for better sight lines. The
town still has its original four gates, although one of the four has had
the actual gate structure removed.

Barbara

Barbara Vaughan

ds wrote:

    > Desirable destinations - small or large - will be crowded ...

It depends what you mean by "desirable". If you are willing to put up
without souvenir shops and restaurants with menus translated into
English, you can find many desirable small and large towns in Italy that
have almost no tourism at all. The town where I live would be absolutely
over-run with tourists if it were in Tuscany. I would place it above
Montalcino for sheer beauty. However, it has only one restaurant within
the town (although there are a few others in the immediate vicinity),
and only one hotel, which is two-star. The only place to get a postcard
is in the grocery store, and although there is a tourist office, the
staff don't have a good command of languages other than Italian. There
are no shops selling designer handbags or ceramics.

There are many other beautiful towns in this region, but they almost all
have a similar lack of tourist infrastructure. A lot of people say they
want to find unspoiled towns, but in fact, once they've had a look at a
pretty town, they don't know what to do with themselves. If you're one
of those who has no need of tourist diversions, you can find hundreds,
maybe thousands, of lovely destinations in Italy.

Barbara


and smaller cities
    > that
    > are tourist centered are likely to be just as expensive as cities, depending
    > on
    > the quality and amenities of the hotel. You can stay as cheaply in Rome
    > as you can in Siena for example.





    > If you really want to get away from the crowds, you can head for less
    > travelled
    > parts of Sicily although I was there in the spring and summertime may be a
    > different
    > story. Good place with a car too. Avoid Taormina if you don't want crowds.
    > Dennis

Judith Umbria

"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > I can't remember all the names now, but I
    > > recall visiting a castle from about 1000AD that was a perfect example of
    > > that era's castle architecture which changed the entire western world at
the
    > > time.
    > I'm curious which castle that was. There is a marvelous castle at
    > Frontone, and another in Calderola. Both date from around that period.

I can't remember, but there was only a tiny village with mostly restaurants
around it, it was VERY high and not in a town. I do think we may have
turned off to it in Calderola, however.

    > > We also unsuccessfully laid seige to a monastery hidden in a windy
    > > valley which is famous for its scriptorium. \

    > Was that Fonte Avellano?

Could be! It was waaay out in the boonies.

    > > Among all the places we went, I judged Corinaldo to be the prettiest and
    > > most friendly place I've seen in ages. I would stay there next time I
    > > traveled that area.
    > Thanks, Judith! You really have to return.

Don't thank me, thank the delightful people who were totally involved in our
enjoying ourselves, and whoever it was who decided to put trees in the
piazza.
I plan to come back as soon as I ease up on my diet enough to eat at Tigli
and really enjoy it.

Karen Selwyn

Barbara Vaughan wrote:
    >
    > ...If you are willing to put up without souvenir shops and restaurants
    > with menus translated into English

Yesterday, my husband and I got back from a fabulous three-week trip to
France and Italy. First, I want to add to the reports of warm, gracious,
and friendly behavior from the French in Lyon, Provence, and Nice. Did
it matter that I speak reasonably fluent French (although my "r" is not
what it used to be)? I don't know. I only know that we had a marvelous
time and cannot say enough complimentary things about the people and the
places we visited.

The negative side effect of having spoken/listened to two weeks of
French is that it washed away virtually all of my slightly-better-
than-survival Italian for about one day. For the remaining three days of
the Italian portion of our trip, words and phrases would come back to me
as I would hear them used by Italian speakers.

My menu Italian is my best Italian. However, in Pisa, our fourth day in
Italy, we encountered a menu which absolutely defeated me. It was
written in a European-style script so individualistic that I would have
been hard-pressed to read the menu even if the words had been in
English. The waiter described the dishes which produced a new dilemma!
The dishes were so complicated -- with every preparation, sauce and
garnish described -- that the choices tended to blur together. My
husband and I ordered without being completely confident that we had
orderd the dish that had appealed to us most in the recitation. In the
end, we agreed that we could have ordered almost anything and it would
have been delicious.

Admittedly, my husband and I are adventuresome eaters, but our
experience with Italian food has been so uniformly delicious that if we
can't read the menu, we're willing to let the kitchen (read
chef/cook/grandma) be in charge. We find that the kitchen seems to
accept the responsibility and brings forth dishes more delectable than
the next.

Karen Selwyn

Ned Gatewood

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Thanks to each of you who responded to my request for ideas on our trip to
Italy. I wrote each of you a message of thanks, but many were returned.
Ned
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ned Gatewood wrote:

    > We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a car. We wish to visit
    > smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this possible?), and
    > the high cost of city hotels. Any suggestions of cities and towns that
    > are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be appreciated. Also, hotel
    > recommendations would be great too!
    > Thanks a million.
    > Ned

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Thanks to each of you who responded to my request for ideas on our trip
to Italy. I wrote each of you a message of thanks, but many were
returned.
Ned

Ned Gatewood wrote:
We will be in Italy in July for two weeks with a
car. We wish to visit
smaller cities and towns to avoid the crowds (Is this possible?), and
the high cost of city hotels.  Any suggestions of cities
and towns that
are not spoiled by crowds of tourist will be appreciated. Also,
hotel
recommendations would be great too!
Thanks a million.
Ned


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