Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:03:42 -0500, Allan Melttzer
wrote:

    >Padraig Breathnach wrote:
    >> [email protected] (Mortis) wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Any comments or suggestions?
    >>>Flying into Shannon and out of Dublin for a total of 15 nights.
    >>>Newmarket-on-Fergus 1 night
    >>>Galway 2 nights
    >>>Dingle 2 nights
    >>>Kenmare 2 nights
    >>>Kinsale 1 night
    >>>Waterford 2 nights
    >>>Kilkenny 2 nights
    >>>Dublin 3 nights
    >>
    >> Too much driving, not enough stopping.
    >I think many first time visitors to Ireland make the "too much driving"
    >mistake. I did the first time I visited. As the plane past over
    >Ireland on the way back home ( London to Ottawa) I vowed I would never
    >do that again. That was in 1987 and we haven't.

I think it comes from the size of the place, particularly if you;re
used to covering larger distances. I've never been able to average
more than 40 mph over any kind of distance in Ireland - and I'm Irish
and know the roads.You can't get from Dublin to Galway in a couple of
hours without a stop, so if you *do* stop for any length of time en
route, its going to take all day or longer.

Brian

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:38:39 +0000, in a clarity of expression
resembling Cicero, Brian wrote:

    >I think it comes from the size of the place, particularly if you;re
    >used to covering larger distances. I've never been able to average
    >more than 40 mph over any kind of distance in Ireland - and I'm Irish
    >and know the roads.You can't get from Dublin to Galway in a couple of
    >hours without a stop, so if you *do* stop for any length of time en
    >route, its going to take all day or longer.

Uh oh, then only stopping for lunch in Athlone was a mistake! Gotta
go back again, now...

Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:27:27 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
wrote:

    >I presume that you include Waterford primarily for "The Glass". While
    >the city has other minor attractions, it is not a first-class
    >destination.
    >You can see crystal glass being made and cut in Galway, and cut
    >Waterford from your itinerary. More time in Galway is A Good Thing.
    >Connemara beckons.

Do you mean the Galway Irish Crystal Heritage Center? I also
found references to the Connemara Celtic Crystal Factory in
Moycullen, but I can't find any details like hours. There's also
a Connemara Marble Factory.
    >I see a Ring of Kerry in your programme. It's over-rated, and the
    >Dingle peninsula offers some similar scenery (see if you can get the
    >boat trip from Dunquin to the Blasket Islands, for one of the most
    >enchanting places on this planet). From Dingle, head for Kenmare, give
    >it one night, and work through west Cork.

You may have a point. It was a bartender from Galway that
insisted I had to do the ring, but now I found out that he's
never been to Dingle, so if they are that similar one should be
enough.
    >Kinsale is very pretty, and offers great dining. Waste a bit of time
    >in Clonakilty, which is west of Kinsale.
    >Be sure to visit Kilkenny Castle.

I plan to.
    >PB

Thanks for your suggestions.

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:29:30 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
wrote:

    >I like the Ring of Kerry -- just not enough to give it a full day on a
    >short trip when one has also got the Dingle peninsula on the
    >programme.
    >The best part of it is between Killarney and Kenmare, which you can
    >get without doing the full circuit.

This is nice to know.

Thanks

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:03:42 -0500, Allan Melttzer
wrote:

    >I think many first time visitors to Ireland make the "too much driving"
    >mistake. I did the first time I visited. As the plane past over
    >Ireland on the way back home ( London to Ottawa) I vowed I would never
    >do that again. That was in 1987 and we haven't.
    >We've gone back six times since and for all of our trips we choose one
    >area and and get to know it.
    >Allan

Unfortunately this is a once in a lifetime trip.

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:29:58 GMT, Frank Lynch
wrote:

    >On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:01:05 +0000, in a clarity of expression
    >resembling Cicero, Padraig Breathnach wrote:
    >>"mul" wrote:
    >>>Unless you want to do the tourist thing [Guinness brewery,ect] 3 nights in
    >>>Dublin is too long a stay,,,
    >>It is a tourist itinerary that we are invited to comment on.
    >>There is plenty to see and do in Dublin.
    >>PB
    >THAT is actually why I asked what his interests are. Some people,
    >even though by definition a tourist, might care more about fishing &
    >hiking than standing on the steps of the PO. Yes, Dublin has plenty
    >to do and see -- but depending on the interests, a suggested mix might
    >drop the Castle tour and replace it with time in Phoenix Park, or more
    >time elsewhere, such as the ruins in Fern.

Well we're definitely not fishing or hiking.
    >I can't presume for the OP, but the way I build itineraries is more
    >around "what do I want to do," "what's the proper mix of those
    >activities," and "what locations will produce that," with, as you
    >said, minimal driving. Without knowing what the OP likes to do (as
    >opposed to what he wants to see in Dublin) to me it feels as if the
    >original question is backwards.

I'm not looking for "activities" I'm looking for sites and sights
I can't find at home. We don't have castles, or anything really
old. We are interested in the towns and the people. We plan to
take walking tours where possible. I'm interested in the history
of anyplace I go.

    >Our trip to Ireland we made exactly the mistake you pointed out:
    >driving half a day everyday, and not enough enjoying.

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

    >From: [email protected] (Mortis)

    >>You can see crystal glass being made and cut in Galway, and cut
    >>Waterford from your itinerary. More time in Galway is A Good Thing.
    >>Connemara beckons.
    >Do you mean the Galway Irish Crystal Heritage Center? I also
    >found references to the Connemara Celtic Crystal Factory in
    >Moycullen, but I can't find any details like hours. There's also
    >a Connemara Marble Factory.

I think Padraig meant the Connemara region--Connemara National Park. Clifden
is a convenient base for exploring that astoundingly beautiful area. If you
go, be sure to take a drive along the fijord. We were there last February and
in essence had the entire area to ourselves.

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:37:03 GMT, Frank Lynch
wrote:

    >On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 01:18:17 GMT, in a clarity of expression
    >resembling Cicero, [email protected] (Mortis) wrote:
    >>On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:47:18 GMT, Frank Lynch
    >> wrote:
    >>>First question: what activities do you like to do? (Tough to judge
    >>>otherwise.) Offhand, I think you're in Dublin too long.
    >>
    >>for Dublin I'm planning on the Guiness Brewery, the book of
    >>Kells, Kilmainham Gaol, St. Patrick's Cathedral, the national
    >>museum and a trip up to Newgrange one morning.
    >These are all good things to do, and I can't comment on whether or not
    >you've allotted the proper amount of time. It sounds like you and I
    >have different approaches to allotting time? My approach, as I
    >mention elsewhere, is to think about what I want to do overall, the
    >proper mix, and then find places to do it, with minimal driving. Last
    >August in the UK, for instance, with a kid in tow, we figured out how
    >many animal-type attractions we would need to keep the kid unit happy,
    >the tolerance for museums & castles, my desires for hiking, etc., and
    >then sat down with a Blue Guide, maps, and figured out our stops from
    >that.

Well, I don't have to worry about kids and I'm not hiking. My
approach is to make priorities. So if I get sidetracked I don't
miss the most important things.

    >Also, re Ireland, allow yourself some flexibility. If you're driving,
    >you may want to allow the odd couple hours for a side trip to a small
    >town along your route, discovered by chance. IIRC when we were on our
    >way to Cork we stopped off in Ardmore on a whim, saw the pottery, the
    >old round tower (ca 1100 AD?) and had a pleasant walk. Elsewhere we
    >stopped to talk to cows (they didn't talk back), or to walk through
    >abandoned missionary ruins (near Croom?), and in Fern.
    >All of this, of course, is according to your tastes. If you're the
    >kind of person who likes to have it all carefully planned out, then go
    >ahead and do so, but IMO you'll be missing a lot of what Ireland has
    >to offer if you won't be spontaneous.

Plans can be changed. If I find something better to do than
what I have planned, or just get sidetracked, that's fine. I
just don't want to waste time after I get there trying to find
something to do. Researching the options is a lot easier from
here.
    >Frank Lynch
    >The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
    >http://www.samueljohnson.com/

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On 12 Mar 2003 00:13:05 GMT, [email protected] (Jjjjjulie)
wrote:
    >>From: [email protected] (Mortis)
    >>>You can see crystal glass being made and cut in Galway, and cut
    >>>Waterford from your itinerary. More time in Galway is A Good Thing.
    >>>Connemara beckons.
    >>Do you mean the Galway Irish Crystal Heritage Center? I also
    >>found references to the Connemara Celtic Crystal Factory in
    >>Moycullen, but I can't find any details like hours. There's also
    >>a Connemara Marble Factory.
    >I think Padraig meant the Connemara region--Connemara National Park. Clifden
    >is a convenient base for exploring that astoundingly beautiful area. If you
    >go, be sure to take a drive along the fijord. We were there last February and
    >in essence had the entire area to ourselves.

Thanks, but I did know that. I was asking where to see crystal
glass being made and cut in Galway (see the first line of the
post). :-)

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

Padraig Breathnach wrote in message news:...
    > [email protected] (me) wrote:
[snip]
    > >Up north I'd advise the Cliffs of Moher. Basically, if you're gonna
    > >do that much driving, be sure to get out of the car as often
    > >as possible, even if just to have a close up look at the peat.
    > >
    > Funny: I don't know why people like the Cliff of Moher so much -- but
    > they do. Not my kind of thing. I'll tell you this: if you went there
    > today, you would not like them; there's a cold wind driving heavy
    > showers.


You might be surprised. It's sorta the "charm" of the place.
There is something "beautiful" about the rugged sea coast kinda thing
going on there. 'Course I like going for walks in blizzards.

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 00:07:09 GMT, in a clarity of expression
resembling Cicero, [email protected] (Mortis) wrote:

    >I'm not looking for "activities" I'm looking for sites and sights
    >I can't find at home. We don't have castles, or anything really
    >old. We are interested in the towns and the people. We plan to
    >take walking tours where possible. I'm interested in the history
    >of anyplace I go.

I can't speak for the scenic areas (we didn't do that when we went,
most of what we saw was historically oriented). But from the list you
proved for Dublin, I gather you have some interest in the history, is
that correct? I can tell you to not go to Wexford just for the square
(I didn't see it in your list, anyway), it's historic, but Wexford is
better for its seaside.

In Dublin, you might want to walk around St. Stephen's Green - - IIRC
the Wildes had their house there, and perhaps even Yeats...

If you are going to be driving, I strongly recommend a Blue Guide. If
you haven't looked at them before, they are organized around driving
routes, and they will tell you what you'll encounter on your route or
just out of the way. (They also pretty much never go out of date,
since they don't deal with restaurants or lodging or entertainment.)

Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:13:25 -0500, Frank Lynch wrote
(in message ):

    > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 00:07:09 GMT, in a clarity of expression
    > resembling Cicero, [email protected] (Mortis) wrote:
    >
    >> I'm not looking for "activities" I'm looking for sites and sights
    >> I can't find at home. We don't have castles, or anything really
    >> old. We are interested in the towns and the people. We plan to
    >> take walking tours where possible. I'm interested in the history
    >> of anyplace I go.
    >
    > I can't speak for the scenic areas (we didn't do that when we went,
    > most of what we saw was historically oriented). But from the list you
    > proved for Dublin, I gather you have some interest in the history, is
    > that correct? I can tell you to not go to Wexford just for the square
    > (I didn't see it in your list, anyway), it's historic, but Wexford is
    > better for its seaside.
    >
    > In Dublin, you might want to walk around St. Stephen's Green - - IIRC
    > the Wildes had their house there, and perhaps even Yeats...
    >
    > If you are going to be driving, I strongly recommend a Blue Guide. If
    > you haven't looked at them before, they are organized around driving
    > routes, and they will tell you what you'll encounter on your route or
    > just out of the way. (They also pretty much never go out of date,
    > since they don't deal with restaurants or lodging or entertainment.)
    >
    > Frank Lynch
    > The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
    > http://www.samueljohnson.com/

Is it possible to see a good portion of Dingle if we have to drive from Cork
and back in the same day.

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

Although it was a breathless "road trip", in 14 days I circled the
entire island, including Northern Ireland, with several interior trips
as well, and then coming back to the coastal circuit route, plus a
day trip to the Aran Islands. *Everything* in Ireland is fantastic to
see and I would not have wanted to miss a single thing I saw. Just
stunning scenery of great variety unfolded at every turn. So you may
want to rethink your route depending on your own comfort level. Mine
was pretty much an overnight at each stop, but there were several
multiple days as well in key spots.

My highlights:

1. Cork to Kilarney via the small coastal roads- particularly the
Beara Peninsula.

2. Going overland on the interior of the Ring of Kerry as well as
following the coast for the southern part.

3. The Inishoven 100 route from Donegal down into the back door to
Northern Ireland.

4. The Aran Islands.

5. The Burren and Doolin for Irish music.

6. The ClonMcNois/Offfaly (sp/) railway into the peat bogs.

7. Rhubarb-custard pops in May - best weather.






[email protected] (Mortis) wrote in message news:...
    > Any comments or suggestions?
    > Flying into Shannon and out of Dublin for a total of 15 nights.
    >
    > Newmarket-on-Fergus 1 night
    > Galway 2 nights
    > Dingle 2 nights
    > Kenmare 2 nights
    > Kinsale 1 night
    > Waterford 2 nights
    > Kilkenny 2 nights
    > Dublin 3 nights
    >
    > Thanks

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

[email protected] (Mortis) wrote:

    >On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:27:27 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
    > wrote:
    >>You can see crystal glass being made and cut in Galway, and cut
    >>Waterford from your itinerary. More time in Galway is A Good Thing.
    >>Connemara beckons.
    >Do you mean the Galway Irish Crystal Heritage Center?
Yes. I have never been there, or to any other such enterprise -- I
think that you will find that most Irish people don't get around to
visiting them. Visits daily Monday to Friday, get in before 3.00 p.m.
Contact [email protected] .The product is similar to Waterford,
and a little less expensive.

    > I also
    >found references to the Connemara Celtic Crystal Factory in
    >Moycullen, but I can't find any details like hours.
I know Moycullen, but don't know the factory or its product. I suspect
that it is on a much smaller scale.

    > There's also
    >a Connemara Marble Factory.
At Recess, I think.

    >>I see a Ring of Kerry in your programme. It's over-rated, and the
    >>Dingle peninsula offers some similar scenery (see if you can get the
    >>boat trip from Dunquin to the Blasket Islands, for one of the most
    >>enchanting places on this planet). From Dingle, head for Kenmare, give
    >>it one night, and work through west Cork.
    >You may have a point. It was a bartender from Galway that
    >insisted I had to do the ring, but now I found out that he's
    >never been to Dingle, so if they are that similar one should be
    >enough.
And did he not recommend Connemara? He must be from Galway city. It's
an odd fact that the people of Galway city generally do not rate
Connemara. My personal favourite tour in Ireland (and I do it every
year or two) is the circuit of Connemara. I go through Spiddal,
Rosmuc, Cashel, Roundstone, Clifden, Letterfrack, Leenane, Lough
Inagh, Recess, Oughterard, and back to Galway. You could spend a week
doing it, or you can rush through it in a day. On the scale of your
visit, I suggest two days, overnighting near Clifden.

You get a variety of wild scenery (coastal and mountain), some pretty
villages, Connemara National Park, Kylemore Abbey -- lots of stuff.

PB

Re: Ireland Itinerary
 

In article ,
[email protected] (Frank Lynch) wrote:

    > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 00:07:09 GMT, in a clarity of expression
    > resembling Cicero, [email protected] (Mortis) wrote:
    >
    > >I'm not looking for "activities" I'm looking for sites and sights
    > >I can't find at home. We don't have castles, or anything really
    > >old. We are interested in the towns and the people. We plan to
    > >take walking tours where possible. I'm interested in the history
    > >of anyplace I go.
    >
    > I can't speak for the scenic areas (we didn't do that when we went,
    > most of what we saw was historically oriented). But from the list you
    > proved for Dublin, I gather you have some interest in the history, is
    > that correct? I can tell you to not go to Wexford just for the square
    > (I didn't see it in your list, anyway), it's historic, but Wexford is
    > better for its seaside.

There is also a very striking modern monument to the 1798 uprising not far
from Wexford town. I can't recall exactly where it is, but once there I'm
sure you could find out easily enough.