MattB

Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
have an International Drivers License?
Thanks!

Devil

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:00:13 -0700, MattB wrote:

    > Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
    > have an International Drivers License?
    > Thanks!

No.

Pltrgyst

On 21 Jul 2004 19:00:13 -0700, [email protected] (MattB) wrote:

    >Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
    >have an International Drivers License?

Its only use might be if you get stopped for a driving infraction. The rental
agencies won't even look at it -- they want your US license.

-- Larry

John Bermont

MattB wrote:
    > Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
    > have an International Drivers License?
    > Thanks!

I usually get an International Driving Permit before going to Europe
whether I plan to drive or not. It is sometimes valuable as an extra
piece of security ID in lieu of leaving a passport. And it is reportedly
required for driving in some countries. When I'm stopped by a police
officer (hasn't happened in France) I show him the IDP along with my
drivers license, passport, car title, and insurance.

If you are driving in France for the first time my page at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap18/auto.htm can help get you up the
learning curve before you hit the road.

John Bermont

--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

Mark Hewitt

"MattB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
    > have an International Drivers License?

An advantage not not necessary. And international licence will just provide
a translation of your US licence into French, nothing more, nothing less. So
if you get stopped by someone who doesn't speak English it might be good,
otherwise pointless.

Owain

"MattB" wrote
    | Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France
    | to have an International Drivers License?

No. An IDL is a worthless document.

It is *advisable* however to have an International Driver's *Permit*.

The IDP is a formal document which translates driving licence details into
several languages, enabling foreign authorities to interpret the entitlement
held, validity periods, age and identity of the holder.
(Explanatory note at
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/public/press_...03_14Apr03.htm
)

From Canadian Dept of Foreign Affairs website:
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/before/faq-en.asp#driving
Q: What are the additional advantages of using the IDP?
A: It provides the holder with an extra photo ID. Provides translation of
your valid Canadian Drivers licence since the IDP is printed in 10 languages
(English, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, German, Arabic, Italian,
Scandinavian and Portuguese.) Most Car Rental agencies will request an IDP
even though one is not required to drive in their country.


Compared to the cost and inconvenience of being stopped by a jobsworth
police officer who decides to give you a hard time because your licence
isn't in French, it's probably a wise thing to have "just in case".

Owain

B Vaughan

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:12:16 +0100, "Owain"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"MattB" wrote
    >| Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France
    >| to have an International Drivers License?
    >No. An IDL is a worthless document.
    >It is *advisable* however to have an International Driver's *Permit*.

They are two names for the same thing.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Tam

"Owain" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    >
    > From Canadian Dept of Foreign Affairs website:
    > http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/before/faq-en.asp#driving
    > Q: What are the additional advantages of using the IDP?
    > A: It provides the holder with an extra photo ID. Provides translation of
    > your valid Canadian Drivers licence since the IDP is printed in 10 languages
    > (English, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, German, Arabic, Italian,
    > Scandinavian and Portuguese.) Most Car Rental agencies will request an IDP
    > even though one is not required to drive in their country.
    >
    > Compared to the cost and inconvenience of being stopped by a jobsworth
    > police officer who decides to give you a hard time because your licence
    > isn't in French, it's probably a wise thing to have "just in case".

Well, my Québec license is solely in French. And many other Canadian
licenses are bilingual. The only place I have been unable to hire a
car without an international license was Japan, although I can't say
I've tried to rent in that many countries.

Interestingly, when I was a diplomat in France many years ago, I was
discouraged by my Embassy's administrative officer from applying for a
French license on the basis that my home license (in English, then)
was quite enough. I asked for one anyway, and paid for and got it,
which I still have. I would like to exchange it for a UK license (I
live there now), but I have the feeling that they will be able to
verify that I never took a French (and hence EU) road test. How that
fits in with the ECJ cases remains to be seen: there are several
interesting cases that suggest one may not consider an EU/EEA/Swiss
citizen "unlicensed" simply because s/he did not exchange his/her
licence from another member state for one in the state of current
residence:

Krueger, Case C-253/01
http://tinyurl.com/32eo9

Skanavi and Chryssanthakopoulos, Case C-193/94
http://tinyurl.com/3eovc

Awoyemi, Case C-230/97 (non-EU citizen not protected by above rule)
http://tinyurl.com/yqvl5

B Vaughan

On 24 Jul 2004 06:33:55 -0700, [email protected] (Tam) wrote:

    >Well, my Québec license is solely in French. And many other Canadian
    >licenses are bilingual. The only place I have been unable to hire a
    >car without an international license was Japan, although I can't say
    >I've tried to rent in that many countries.

The fact that you can rent a car without an international driver's
permit has little to do with the legality of driving without one. You
own national driver's license is the legal license, and often that's
really all the rental company cares about. The fact that a country
requires you to provide an official translation of your license if
asked is altogether a different matter.

Italy requires all drivers whose licenses are not in the standard EU
format to carry an official translation of the license and to produce
it on demand. To satisfy this law, you can get an IDP for about 10
dollars, or you can take your license to an Italian consulate and get
a list of recognized translators, get it officially translated, and
then take it back to the consulate and have an official seal put on
it. You decide which is more trouble. (I may have some of the details
of the alternative to the IDP a bit confused, but I did look into this
at one time, and it was more or less as i've stated.)

I live in Italy and have an Italian driver's license. When I moved
here, I drove for a year with my New Jersey license and an IDP. When
the IDP expired, I hadn't got my Italian license yet, but my NJ
license still had a few months to go. I asked the local authorities if
I could drive with the NJ license and the expired IDP, which still was
a translation of the license as far I could see. The answer was a
definite "no". Given that routine document checks do occur with a
certain frequency in Italy, I refrained from further driving until I
had my Italian license. I have heard numerous people say that rental
companies haven't asked them to produce an IDP, but that doesn't mean
that they wouldn't have had trouble if stopped. I have also heard of
some people who were stopped without an IDP and were not fined. I can
only say that the policeman was feeling friendly that day.


    >Interestingly, when I was a diplomat in France many years ago, I was
    >discouraged by my Embassy's administrative officer from applying for a
    >French license on the basis that my home license (in English, then)
    >was quite enough. I asked for one anyway, and paid for and got it,
    >which I still have. I would like to exchange it for a UK license (I
    >live there now), but I have the feeling that they will be able to
    >verify that I never took a French (and hence EU) road test. How that
    >fits in with the ECJ cases remains to be seen: there are several
    >interesting cases that suggest one may not consider an EU/EEA/Swiss
    >citizen "unlicensed" simply because s/he did not exchange his/her
    >licence from another member state for one in the state of current
    >residence:
    >Krueger, Case C-253/01
    >http://tinyurl.com/32eo9
    >Skanavi and Chryssanthakopoulos, Case C-193/94
    >http://tinyurl.com/3eovc
    >Awoyemi, Case C-230/97 (non-EU citizen not protected by above rule)
    >http://tinyurl.com/yqvl5

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Sufaud

B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..

    > Italy requires all drivers whose licenses are not in the standard EU
    > format to carry an official translation of the license and to produce
    > it on demand. To satisfy this law, you can get an IDP for about 10
    > dollars, or you can take your license to an Italian consulate and get
    > a list of recognized translators, get it officially translated, and
    > then take it back to the consulate and have an official seal put on
    > it. You decide which is more trouble. (I may have some of the details
    > of the alternative to the IDP a bit confused, but I did look into this
    > at one time, and it was more or less as i've stated.)

Well, my French license dates from 1980. The Scanavi case below would
prevent the Italians from doing much of anything to me even though the
license pre-dates EU format -- I have a Swiss passport, which offers
virtual EEA equivalence in rights. Without EU/EEA/Swiss status I'd be
in the situation of Awoyemi, SOL. We know from

    > >Krueger, Case C-253/01
    > >http://tinyurl.com/32eo9
    > >
    > >Skanavi and Chryssanthakopoulos, Case C-193/94
    > >http://tinyurl.com/3eovc
    > >
    > >Awoyemi, Case C-230/97 (non-EU citizen not protected by above rule)
    > >http://tinyurl.com/yqvl5

We know from the Giagounidas case
http://tinyurl.com/2qbnw
that the format of documentation is immaterial in EU law; it is the
substance that matters.

Indeed, the red EU passport format is based on a consensus
recommendation and not any directive
Resolutions of 23 June 1981, 30 June 1982, 14 July 1986 and 10 July
1995 concerning the introduction of a passport of uniform pattern,
OJEC, 19 Sept. 1981, C 241, p. 1; 16 July 1982, C 179, p. 1; 14 July
1986, C 185, p. 1; 4 Aug. 1995, C 200, p. 1.

But my original point was that a IDL is senseless if one's home
license is anyway in the language of the country you'd be likely to
drive in. And EU rights supersede local law: Like my old French one, I
think my wife's Geneva license is in French only; the Italians could
scarcely demand that she have an Italian translation of it, or they'd
be setting up a licence check at the exit of the Alpine tunnel and
reaping a vast fortune in fines.

B Vaughan

On 25 Jul 2004 00:33:34 -0700, [email protected] (Sufaud) wrote:

    >But my original point was that a IDL is senseless if one's home
    >license is anyway in the language of the country you'd be likely to
    >drive in.

Since the IDL is a translation, that's certainly true.

    > And EU rights supersede local law:

I'm willing to believe this is true also, but the original poster
wasn't European.

    > Like my old French one, I
    >think my wife's Geneva license is in French only; the Italians could
    >scarcely demand that she have an Italian translation of it, or they'd
    >be setting up a licence check at the exit of the Alpine tunnel and
    >reaping a vast fortune in fines.

That certainly doesn't follow from what you've said. They don't ask to
see an IDL unless they have some other reason to ask to see your
license.

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Sufaud

B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > On 25 Jul 2004 00:33:34 -0700, [email protected] (Sufaud) wrote:
    >
    > >But my original point was that a IDL is senseless if one's home
    > >license is anyway in the language of the country you'd be likely to
    > >drive in.
    >
    > Since the IDL is a translation, that's certainly true.
    >
    > > And EU rights supersede local law:
    >
    > I'm willing to believe this is true also, but the original poster
    > wasn't European.
    >
    > > Like my old French one, I
    > >think my wife's Geneva license is in French only; the Italians could
    > >scarcely demand that she have an Italian translation of it, or they'd
    > >be setting up a licence check at the exit of the Alpine tunnel and
    > >reaping a vast fortune in fines.
    >
    > That certainly doesn't follow from what you've said. They don't ask to
    > see an IDL unless they have some other reason to ask to see your
    > license.

It just occurred to me that German is a national, or rather a
regional, language of Italy, so fie on them anyway for their
hypocrisy:

Bickel & Franz case
http://law.pravri.hr/hr/zavodi/ielcl...2/C_274_96.pdf

Tim Challenger

On 27 Jul 2004 09:47:16 -0700, Sufaud wrote:

    > It just occurred to me that German is a national, or rather a
    > regional, language of Italy, so fie on them anyway for their
    > hypocrisy:

What hypocrisy?

--
Tim C.

Tim Challenger

On 25 Jul 2004 00:33:34 -0700, Sufaud wrote:

    > Well, my French license dates from 1980.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/...faq/002_en.htm

Mutual recognition allows for and requires old licences to be recognised.
--
Tim C.

Tim Challenger

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 02:15:28 GMT, devil wrote:

    > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:00:13 -0700, MattB wrote:
    >
    >> Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
    >> have an International Drivers License?
    >> Thanks!
    >
    > No.

... unless you get stopped and the copper's having a bad hair day.
It *is* a requirement.
--
Tim C.