Nitram

On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:57:06 +0100, [email protected]
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco)
wrote:

    >nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:00:07 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >[email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses
    >> >o' th' barn and prestwich tesco) wrote:
    >> >
    >> >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>> Tom:
    >> >>> >Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    >> >>> >the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> (Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
    >> >>> notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
    >> >>> having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
    >> >>> plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
    >> >>
    >> >>What airline was that? For some reason, I thought that a national ID
    >> >>card would be fine for intra-schengen flights. So much for that then!
    >> >
    >> >Do Ryanair have a service between Holland and Greece? Nah, it can't be
    >> >them: they never relent.
    >>
    >> It sounds more like KLM, who use every trick in the book to avoid
    >> flying with passengers.
    >I will think very carefully before ever taking a KLM flight again. We
    >were recently dumped with hundreds of other passengers at Schiphol
    >trying to fight with agents to rebook us onto flights. KLM took a _long_
    >time to get its act together.

They haven't got their act together for two decades.

    > For two hours, there were only two agents
    >working at transfer desk which had 9 consoles. Lots of other manicured
    >KLM staff mincing around, but didn't appear to actually be working. I do
    >appreciate that things like fog upset people's travel plans, but I was
    >very angry at this inefficiency, and so was everyone else by the looks
    >of it. My parents had a similar experience a couple of years ago. I just
    >put it down to bad luck- now I'm less sure.

I was obliged to fly with them for decades.

KLM can not be guaranteed to fly a scheduled flight, if they think
there are not enough passengers. Probably a trick they copied from Air
Inter. I was advised to check if the return flight had departed from
A'dam before setting out for the airport. Things could have improved
since Air France(AKA merged with") took them over.

Nitram

On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:39:49 +0200, Tom Peel
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco wrote:
    >> a.spencer3 <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    >>><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>news:1gx4c8n.nm18dlwjgunyN%this_address_is_for_ [email protected]...
    >>>>The UK is attempting to bring them in again. The idea eventually is to
    >>>>make them compulsory (everyone will have to have one) and at the moment
    >>>>they are estimated to cost £93. And I thought only the Tories supported
    >>>>poll taxes...
    >>>>Personally, I'm all for an optional ID card. I'd certainly prefer
    >>>>carrying that around to a Passport.
    >>>There's a lot on this on UK radio at this moment.
    >>>(And I don't think the ID replaces passports, does it?).
    >>
    >>
    >> No, it doesn't, but for me (given that I don't have a driving license)
    >> it would replace Passports within the UK on the occasion I have to
    >> produce one- such as a domestic flight.
    >>
    >Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    >the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.

An ID card format passport could have the same info on the chip.

Magda

On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:12 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
...
... >Tom:
... >>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
... >>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
... >
... >There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
... >
... >(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
... >notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
... >having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
... >plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
...
... The *airline* is fined, if it allows a passenger to travel without
... valid papers.

She had valid papers.

Tim

"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1gx4hoo.p6r2nw1js716wN%this_address_is_for_sp [email protected]...
    > nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:05:03 +0100, [email protected]
    >> (chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco)
    >> wrote:
    >> >The UK is attempting to bring them in again. The idea eventually is to
    >> >make them compulsory (everyone will have to have one) and at the moment
    >> >they are estimated to cost £93. And I thought only the Tories supported
    >> >poll taxes...
    >> >
    >> >Personally, I'm all for an optional ID card. I'd certainly prefer
    >> >carrying that around to a Passport.
    >> I'd prefer a passport that was ID card sized.
    > Oh, absolutely. I'd even pay £93 for one of them!

But it's bound to come with an unnecessary piece of A4 that you
have to carry around with you as well.

tim

Tim

"nitram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
    >>Tom:
    >>>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    >>>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
    >>There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
    >>(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
    >>notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
    >>having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
    >>plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
    > The *airline* is fined, if it allows a passenger to travel without
    > valid papers.

No, only if the are refused entry. I'm sure that somebody with
only a Greek ID card travelling to Greece would get in even if
it wasn't strictly enough, the other way round with only a French
"permission to live" is not as clear.

(The stupid woman at MUC on sunday took 10 minutes to decide
that my UK passport was enough to travel to DK!)

tim

Mike O'Sullivan

Tom Peel wrote:
    > chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco wrote:
    >
    >> a.spencer3 <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:1gx4c8n.nm18dlwjgunyN%this_address_is_for_spa [email protected]...
    >>>> The UK is attempting to bring them in again. The idea eventually is to
    >>>> make them compulsory (everyone will have to have one) and at the moment
    >>>> they are estimated to cost £93. And I thought only the Tories supported
    >>>> poll taxes...
    >>>> Personally, I'm all for an optional ID card. I'd certainly prefer
    >>>> carrying that around to a Passport.
    >>> There's a lot on this on UK radio at this moment.
    >>> (And I don't think the ID replaces passports, does it?).
    >> No, it doesn't, but for me (given that I don't have a driving license)
    >> it would replace Passports within the UK on the occasion I have to
    >> produce one- such as a domestic flight.
    > Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    > the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.

No, the difference is that an identity card will be compulsary, whereas
driving passports are optional, and only used if you wish to travel, the
same applying to driving licenses.

Nitram

On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:10:32 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:12 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
    >some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
    > ...
    > ... >Tom:
    > ... >>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    > ... >>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
    > ... >
    > ... >There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
    > ... >
    > ... >(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
    > ... >notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
    > ... >having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
    > ... >plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
    > ...
    > ... The *airline* is fined, if it allows a passenger to travel without
    > ... valid papers.
    >She had valid papers.

They let her fly with them.

Magda

On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:00:03 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:10:32 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
... wrote:
...
... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:12 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
... >
... > ... On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
... > ...
... > ... >Tom:
... > ... >>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
... > ... >>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
... > ... >
... > ... >There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
... > ... >
... > ... >(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
... > ... >notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
... > ... >having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
... > ... >plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
... > ...
... > ... The *airline* is fined, if it allows a passenger to travel without
... > ... valid papers.
... >
... >She had valid papers.
...
... They let her fly with them.

See ?

Nitram

On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:58:35 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:00:03 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
    >some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:10:32 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
    > ... wrote:
    > ...
    > ... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:12 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
    > ... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... >
    > ... > ... On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
    > ... > ...
    > ... > ... >Tom:
    > ... > ... >>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    > ... > ... >>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
    > ... > ... >
    > ... > ... >There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
    > ... > ... >
    > ... > ... >(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
    > ... > ... >notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
    > ... > ... >having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
    > ... > ... >plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
    > ... > ...
    > ... > ... The *airline* is fined, if it allows a passenger to travel without
    > ... > ... valid papers.
    > ... >
    > ... >She had valid papers.
    > ...
    > ... They let her fly with them.
    >See ?

You can read after all?

The Rev Gaston

On 2005-05-25 17:52:20 +0200, nitram <[email protected]> said:

    > On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:00:07 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> [email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses
    >> o' th' barn and prestwich tesco) wrote:
    >>
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Tom:
    >>>>> Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    >>>>> the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
    >>>>
    >>>> There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
    >>>>
    >>>> (Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
    >>>> notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
    >>>> having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
    >>>> plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
    >>>
    >>> What airline was that? For some reason, I thought that a national ID
    >>> card would be fine for intra-schengen flights. So much for that then!
    >>
    >> Do Ryanair have a service between Holland and Greece? Nah, it can't be
    >> them: they never relent.
    >
    > It sounds more like KLM, who use every trick in the book to avoid
    > flying with passengers.

In fact it was Olympic. We avoid KLM. It's what I imagine Aeroflot to be like.

G;

--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG

Nitram

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:06:37 +0200, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 2005-05-25 17:52:20 +0200, nitram <[email protected]> said:
    >> On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:00:07 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> [email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses
    >>> o' th' barn and prestwich tesco) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Tom:
    >>>>>> Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    >>>>>> the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> (Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
    >>>>> notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
    >>>>> having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
    >>>>> plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
    >>>>
    >>>> What airline was that? For some reason, I thought that a national ID
    >>>> card would be fine for intra-schengen flights. So much for that then!
    >>>
    >>> Do Ryanair have a service between Holland and Greece? Nah, it can't be
    >>> them: they never relent.
    >>
    >> It sounds more like KLM, who use every trick in the book to avoid
    >> flying with passengers.
    >In fact it was Olympic. We avoid KLM. It's what I imagine Aeroflot to be like.

I don't think it's quite that bad. In general the staff are competent
and pleasant, but the management is driven by accountants.


I only flew with Olympic from NL once, it was in the days when they
still flew De Haviland Comets and served economy class passengers
large meals on real plates. More recently I have flown Olympic flights
within Greece. I didn't notice any service at all, even the airco
didn't work.

Magda

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:02:35 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:58:35 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
... wrote:
...
... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:00:03 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
... >
... > ... On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:10:32 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
... > ... wrote:
... > ...
... > ... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:12 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
... > ... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
... > ... >
... > ... > ... On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... >Tom:
... > ... > ... >>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
... > ... > ... >>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
... > ... > ... >
... > ... > ... >There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
... > ... > ... >
... > ... > ... >(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
... > ... > ... >notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
... > ... > ... >having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
... > ... > ... >plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... The *airline* is fined, if it allows a passenger to travel without
... > ... > ... valid papers.
... > ... >
... > ... >She had valid papers.
... > ...
... > ... They let her fly with them.
... >
... >See ?
...
... You can read after all?

And you ?

Nitram

On Wed, 25 May 2005 22:09:35 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:02:35 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
    >some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:58:35 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
    > ... wrote:
    > ...
    > ... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:00:03 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
    > ... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... >
    > ... > ... On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:10:32 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
    > ... > ... wrote:
    > ... > ...
    > ... > ... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:12 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
    > ... > ... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... > ... >
    > ... > ... > ... On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
    > ... > ... > ...
    > ... > ... > ... >Tom:
    > ... > ... > ... >>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    > ... > ... > ... >>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
    > ... > ... > ... >
    > ... > ... > ... >There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
    > ... > ... > ... >
    > ... > ... > ... >(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
    > ... > ... > ... >notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
    > ... > ... > ... >having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
    > ... > ... > ... >plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
    > ... > ... > ...
    > ... > ... > ... The *airline* is fined, if it allows a passenger to travel without
    > ... > ... > ... valid papers.
    > ... > ... >
    > ... > ... >She had valid papers.
    > ... > ...
    > ... > ... They let her fly with them.
    > ... >
    > ... >See ?
    > ...
    > ... You can read after all?
    >And you ?

Plonk?

Magda

On Wed, 25 May 2005 22:18:42 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On Wed, 25 May 2005 22:09:35 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
... wrote:
...
... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:02:35 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
... >
... > ... On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:58:35 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
... > ... wrote:
... > ...
... > ... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:00:03 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
... > ... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
... > ... >
... > ... > ... On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:10:32 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
... > ... > ... wrote:
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... >On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:12 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram <[email protected]> arranged
... > ... > ... >some electrons, so they looked like this :
... > ... > ... >
... > ... > ... > ... On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
... > ... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... > ... >Tom:
... > ... > ... > ... >>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
... > ... > ... > ... >>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
... > ... > ... > ... >
... > ... > ... > ... >There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
... > ... > ... > ... >
... > ... > ... > ... >(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
... > ... > ... > ... >notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
... > ... > ... > ... >having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
... > ... > ... > ... >plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)
... > ... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... > ... The *airline* is fined, if it allows a passenger to travel without
... > ... > ... > ... valid papers.
... > ... > ... >
... > ... > ... >She had valid papers.
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... They let her fly with them.
... > ... >
... > ... >See ?
... > ...
... > ... You can read after all?
... >
... >And you ?
...
... Plonk?

Please ! Make my day !

Jim Ley

On 25 May 2005 07:47:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

    >Tom:
    >>Virtually the only difference between an ID card and a passport is that
    >>the passport has pages for visas and entry/exit stamps.
    >There's the "being accepted for travel" thing as well.
    >(Case in point: Mrs G needed to travel from Holland to Greece at short
    >notice, her passport being in France (are you following?). Despite
    >having a Greek ID card and a French carte de sejour, she had to beg and
    >plead with the *airline* to be allowed to travel without a passport)

Quite right to, If she needs 2 pieces of ID, she can get 2 passports,
I fail to see why introducing a seperate ID cards solve the problem of
people being too forgetful to make sure they have it with them.

Jim.