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How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

Old Jan 22nd 2007, 9:56 am
  #46  
-Martin
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Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

On 22 Jan 2007 11:28:03 -0800, "-hh" <[email protected]> wrote:

>scottdanzig wrote:
>> Mike wrote:
>> > My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe this Spring. I've never been
>> > to Europe before...we plan on about 2 weeks (~ 15 nights). Both of us are
>> > English-only speakers.
>> >
>> > Our current plan:
>> >
>> > Fly to London, 4 nights in London (maybe 1 in Bath?)
>> > Rail to Paris, 4 nights in Paris
>> > Rail to Koeln, _rent_ a car and spend 7 days/nights exploring Germany
>> > (Rhine River Valley, Romantic Road, Rothenburg, Munich, etc.)
>> > Fly out of Munich
>> >
>> > I'm a little skittish about renting a car in a foreign country. I know
>> > Europe's rail system is supposed to be fantastic, but we like exploring
>> > and enjoy checking out smaller towns and scenic countryside. Any thoughts on this?
>
>IMO, your plan looks pretty good. Since you're starting your drive in
>Koln, you might also want to explore the Mosel river some: visit the
>park in Koblenz where the Rhine & Mosel join, then you can head west up
>the Mosel to see Burg Eltz castle (maybe Ehrenburg Castle too, if
>you're a bit more adventurous), perhaps even going as far as a daytrip
>to Trier (there's some overnight rooms in Zell). Further
>south/upstream along the Rhine, there's Marksburg Castle - across the
>river fromKoblenz,

and nearer Koblenz Stolzenfels and stay in Rhens or Spay if you want somewhere
quiet to spend the night away from the railway line. In Spay there is a hotel on
the banks of the Rhine with no traffic between the hotel and the Rhine.

>and Rheinfels Castle near St. Goar. We usually stay
>at "Pension Lettie" in Bacharach, just a few miles further upstream
>(south); there's a cute little ferryboat that crosses the Rhine between
>St Goar and Bacharach, at Kaub:
>
><http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=kaub+germany+&ie=UTF8&om=1&z&llP .094596,7.77523&spn=0.104839,0.341263&iwloc­dr>
>
><http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=kaub+germany+&ie=UTF8&om=1&z&llP .087189,7.765017&spn=0.013107,0.042658&t=h&iwloc­ dr>
>
>
>Overall, the best advice is simply "be prepared", and as a rule of
>thumb, expect to get lost once per day. There's some more tips below.

<snip lots of excellent advice>
--

Martin
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 9:58 am
  #47  
-Martin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:54:37 -0700, Bruce Bretschneider <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Another place to visit is Trier if you are in southwestern Germany. It
>is one of the oldest, if not the oldest city in Germany. Dates back to
>Roman times and has an ampitheater and baths.

and the original Roman city gateway Porta Negra made of black volcanic rock.

--

Martin
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 10:14 am
  #48  
David Horne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:36:19 +0000, [email protected] (David Horne,
> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >I suspect the 'Romantic Road' might be good for a car
>
> hence not called the romantic railway?

I admit, Romantic Road is a bit of an oxymoron for me. Deserted road
with no traffic is kind of romantic, I suppose.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 10:24 am
  #49  
-Martin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:14:28 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:36:19 +0000, [email protected] (David Horne,
>> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >I suspect the 'Romantic Road' might be good for a car
>>
>> hence not called the romantic railway?
>
>I admit, Romantic Road is a bit of an oxymoron for me. Deserted road
>with no traffic is kind of romantic, I suppose.

It has always been rather quiet when we have travelled it's length.
It might even be nice to cycle along it, if you have enough time :-)
--

Martin
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 10:25 am
  #50  
David Horne
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Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:09:16 +0000, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:36:19 +0000, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
> >[]
> >> >I suspect the 'Romantic Road' might be good for a car, but the nicest
> >> >parts of the Rhine are pleasantly accessible by different modes of
> >> >public transport. Most people with cars are driving down the same routes
> >> >and stopping in the same spots which are covered by train, boat etc.
> >>
> >> No they aren't.
> >
> >They certainly give the impression they are.
>
> How would you know? :-)

Good point, but I did at one time in the distant past have a car.

[]
> >> I've done the Rhine Valley many times with and without a car. With a car
> >> is best, even if eventually you want to walk. I visited more places in a
> >> year with a car, than I had visited in the previous seven years using
> >> public transport.
> >
> >For me, visiting more places isn't necessarily the point.
>
> For me being stuck to within walking distance of a railway station was
> extremely limiting. Having to spend two hours walking to and from the
> place where we wanted to walk in the forest was time wasting too.

I never find it limiting, because I work around it. I note that HH's
good post is very do-able by public transport- indeed, we did almost the
same trip a while back.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 10:28 am
  #51  
David Horne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:09:16 +0000, [email protected] (David Horne,
> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> > Most people with cars are driving down the same routes
> >> >and stopping in the same spots which are covered by train, boat etc.
> >>
> >> No they aren't.
> >
> >They certainly give the impression they are.
>
> they would give that impression from PT?

Where do most people go in the Lake District? Do they go to that place
in the middle of nowhere that you go to (very nice by the sound of it)
or do they go to Windermere or Ambleside, and spend a lot of time in the
summer driving quite slowly inbetween.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 10:41 am
  #52  
-Magda
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:24:18 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Martin <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:14:28 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
... chancellor (*)) wrote:
...
... >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
... >
... >> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:36:19 +0000, [email protected] (David Horne,
... >> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
... >>
... >> >I suspect the 'Romantic Road' might be good for a car
... >>
... >> hence not called the romantic railway?
... >
... >I admit, Romantic Road is a bit of an oxymoron for me. Deserted road
... >with no traffic is kind of romantic, I suppose.
...
... It has always been rather quiet when we have travelled it's

It is what?

length.
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 10:49 am
  #53  
-Martin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:41:49 +0100, Magda <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:24:18 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Martin <[email protected]>
>arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>
> ... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:14:28 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> ... chancellor (*)) wrote:
> ...
> ... >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> ... >
> ... >> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:36:19 +0000, [email protected] (David Horne,
> ... >> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
> ... >>
> ... >> >I suspect the 'Romantic Road' might be good for a car
> ... >>
> ... >> hence not called the romantic railway?
> ... >
> ... >I admit, Romantic Road is a bit of an oxymoron for me. Deserted road
> ... >with no traffic is kind of romantic, I suppose.
> ...
> ... It has always been rather quiet when we have travelled it's
>
>It is what?
>
> length.

isn't everything?

>

Focus on the semantics and forget about spending your free time searching for
"it's". Sooner or later you will be able to contribute to the discussions in a
more pleasing and meaningful way.

:-P
--

Martin
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 11:03 am
  #54  
-Magda
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:49:31 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Martin <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:41:49 +0100, Magda <[email protected]> wrote:
...
... >On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:24:18 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Martin <[email protected]>
... >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
... >
... > ... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:14:28 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
... > ... chancellor (*)) wrote:
... > ...
... > ... >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
... > ... >
... > ... >> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:36:19 +0000, [email protected] (David Horne,
... > ... >> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
... > ... >>
... > ... >> >I suspect the 'Romantic Road' might be good for a car
... > ... >>
... > ... >> hence not called the romantic railway?
... > ... >
... > ... >I admit, Romantic Road is a bit of an oxymoron for me. Deserted road
... > ... >with no traffic is kind of romantic, I suppose.
... > ...
... > ... It has always been rather quiet when we have travelled it's
... >
... >It is what?
... >
... > length.
...
... isn't everything?
...
... >
...
... Focus on the semantics and forget about spending your free time searching for
... "it's".

I'm focusing on *your* grammar. You are going to get it right even if it's the last thing
I do in my life!
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 1:31 pm
  #55  
Dgs
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

-hh wrote:
> Bruce Bretschneider wrote:
>> German drivers are not "pretty disciplined". They are EXTREMELY
>> DISCIPLINED as are most of the people in Germany.
>
> They take their driving very seriously. IIRC, usually takes around
> $3000 in training and a couple of months for an American (who already
> has a US Driver's Licence) to pass the German tests. The payoff is the
> sections of the Autobahn that have no effective speed limit.

Actually, an American who already has a driver's license may have a
hidden advantage. First, of course, most Americans don't have a "US"
driver's license; they have a driver's license from their home state.
Some of these American states have reciprocity agreements with Germany,
so that if they become long-term residents (complete with Wohn-
erlaubnis), they can simply trade in their American state-issued
driver's license for a German one.

An American in Germany for a short stay doesn't have to bother with
any of that, of course, and can rent a car with a valid credit card,
valid driver's license, and passport. That American can still drive on
the Autobahn. Finding the few remaining sections with "no effective
speed limit" is another story.
--
dgs
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 1:46 pm
  #56  
Dgs
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

Mike wrote:
> My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe this Spring. I've never been
> to Europe before...we plan on about 2 weeks (~ 15 nights). Both of us are
> English-only speakers.
>
> Our current plan:
>
> Fly to London, 4 nights in London (maybe 1 in Bath?)
> Rail to Paris, 4 nights in Paris
> Rail to Koeln, _rent_ a car and spend 7 days/nights exploring Germany
> (Rhine River Valley, Romantic Road, Rothenburg, Munich, etc.)
> Fly out of Munich
>
> I'm a little skittish about renting a car in a foreign country. I know
> Europe's rail system is supposed to be fantastic, but we like exploring
> and enjoy checking out smaller towns and scenic countryside. Any thoughts on this?

Looks okay to me, and not terribly dissimilar to my first independent
trip to Europe, complete with car rental, 22 years ago (ah... memories).

You can go to Bath for a day trip if you want, or you could stay there
longer. Nice little historic city in a country with more than a few of
them.

Don't be too put off by the idea of renting a car in Germany, which is
to my mind one of the more user-friendly countries on the Continent.
German roads are generally well-marked, and your worst problems on the
Autobahns are more likely to be in the form of traffic jams. Just pay
attention to lane discipline there, staying on the right except to pass;
German driving rules are much more strict about this than lazy-ass
typical American states' regulations, and on the Autobahn, you really
don't want those headlights flashing in your mirror (and how did that
car just suddenly appear in that mirror so quickly, anyway?).

Be careful driving in Munich. Best advice there is to find a hotel with
a parking garage and put the car in it, and leave it there, because you
won't need it, thanks to the city's extensive urban and regional transit
systems.

You've gotten plenty of other good advice here. Have a great trip.
--
dgs
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 2:14 pm
  #57  
Dgs
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

-hh wrote:

> London & Paris metro systems are worth the effort to figure out. I
> don't recall if there's a multiday pass in London, but for Paris,
> there's the "Carte Orange" pass which is usually worthwhile. See the
> Rick Steves guidebook discussions for more info.

There are a couple of varieties of passes in London. The Travelcard
comes in several durations, including 7 days. For shorter stays,
there are one- and three-day tickets. And then there's the stored-
value Oyster card, which can be either a multi-day card or simply a
PAYG with a daily price cap.
--
dgs
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 2:23 pm
  #58  
Runge
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

Useful as usual, eh

"Martin" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:17:49 GMT, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe this Spring. I've never been
>>to Europe before...we plan on about 2 weeks (~ 15 nights). Both of us are
>>English-only speakers.
>>
>>Our current plan:
>>
>> Fly to London, 4 nights in London (maybe 1 in Bath?)
>> Rail to Paris, 4 nights in Paris
>> Rail to Koeln, _rent_ a car and spend 7 days/nights exploring Germany
>> (Rhine River Valley, Romantic Road, Rothenburg, Munich, etc.)
>> Fly out of Munich
>>
>>I'm a little skittish about renting a car in a foreign country. I know
>>Europe's rail system is supposed to be fantastic, but we like exploring
>>and enjoy checking out smaller towns and scenic countryside. Any thoughts
>>on this?
>
> Rent a car!
> --
>
> Martin
>
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 2:34 pm
  #59  
Runge
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

magda and martin seem to develop a liking for each other
Notice how couples develop through the various useless threads :
when you read martin you read frau magda,
when you read evleth you read morrow
when you read michaelnewport you read martin (again ?)
when you read evleth you read the reids
when you read evleth earl you read evleth donna
when you read an on topic subject you read out of topic contris by the same
above
when you read a question on topic you read an answer about the US by vogt
the manquee
when you read a european travel topic on the europe group you read all sorts
of topics imported from the death penalty group
when you need an answer you get several (most) not related to the question
by people who could not care less about the oiginal question
when you answer a question you read 10 others which just pick up what you've
just said, as if you hadn't answered yourself
when you read a contri by our good old KKK contributor O Donovan you read
padraig
when you read so called piggy you read the simpsons...er I mean the evleths.

Lol



"Magda" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:49:31 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Martin
> <[email protected]>
> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>
> ... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:41:49 +0100, Magda <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
> ... >On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:24:18 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Martin
> <[email protected]>
> ... >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
> ... >
> ... > ... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:14:28 +0100, [email protected] (David
> Horne, _the_
> ... > ... chancellor (*)) wrote:
> ... > ...
> ... > ... >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> ... > ... >
> ... > ... >> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:36:19 +0000, [email protected] (David
> Horne,
> ... > ... >> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
> ... > ... >>
> ... > ... >> >I suspect the 'Romantic Road' might be good for a car
> ... > ... >>
> ... > ... >> hence not called the romantic railway?
> ... > ... >
> ... > ... >I admit, Romantic Road is a bit of an oxymoron for me. Deserted
> road
> ... > ... >with no traffic is kind of romantic, I suppose.
> ... > ...
> ... > ... It has always been rather quiet when we have travelled it's
> ... >
> ... >It is what?
> ... >
> ... > length.
> ...
> ... isn't everything?
> ...
> ... >
> ...
> ... Focus on the semantics and forget about spending your free time
> searching for
> ... "it's".
>
> I'm focusing on *your* grammar. You are going to get it right even if it's
> the last thing
> I do in my life!
>
 
Old Jan 22nd 2007, 2:42 pm
  #60  
Frank Clarke
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:17:49 GMT, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
<[email protected]>

>My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe this Spring. I've never been
>to Europe before...we plan on about 2 weeks (~ 15 nights). Both of us are
>English-only speakers.
>
>Our current plan:
>
> Fly to London, 4 nights in London (maybe 1 in Bath?)
> Rail to Paris, 4 nights in Paris
> Rail to Koeln, _rent_ a car and spend 7 days/nights exploring Germany
> (Rhine River Valley, Romantic Road, Rothenburg, Munich, etc.)
> Fly out of Munich
>
>I'm a little skittish about renting a car in a foreign country. I know
>Europe's rail system is supposed to be fantastic, but we like exploring
>and enjoy checking out smaller towns and scenic countryside. Any thoughts on this?

Take a quick course in German, even if it's one of the CD-version 'German in 14
days', then plan on renting a car. There are many places that, if you don't
have a car, you're not going there because figuring out the trains will drive
you batty. We lucked-out in Munich by bumping into Eur-Aide and managed to get
a tour to Neuschwanstein, Lindenhof, Ettal Abbey and the Wieskirche all in one
day. You can't count on luck like that. You'll need a car. Besides, doing
120+mph on the Autobahn will make it all worthwhile :-)


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