Eric

Hi. I'm considering a trip to Germany and France in October. I'd like
to take a train from the Frankfurt, Germany airport to Paris, and then
after a few days a train from Paris to Lyon or Grenoble. Then from
either Lyon or Grenoble back to Frankfurt. The trip will last about
two weeks.

In the past I've done part of this trip by car, but I'd like to try it
via train, but I've never traveled by train in Europe before. Any
guidance would be appreciated: train lines, rail passes, good place to
buy tickets, 1st vs. 2nd class, train stations, ease of use, web
sites, etc.

Thanks in advance.

eric

Hatunen

On 11 Aug 2003 18:37:15 -0700, [email protected] (Eric)
wrote:

    >Hi. I'm considering a trip to Germany and France in October. I'd like
    >to take a train from the Frankfurt, Germany airport to Paris, and then
    >after a few days a train from Paris to Lyon or Grenoble. Then from
    >either Lyon or Grenoble back to Frankfurt. The trip will last about
    >two weeks.
    >In the past I've done part of this trip by car, but I'd like to try it
    >via train, but I've never traveled by train in Europe before. Any
    >guidance would be appreciated: train lines, rail passes, good place to
    >buy tickets, 1st vs. 2nd class, train stations, ease of use, web
    >sites, etc.

Start with
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/que...rotocol=http:&

In general, rail passes won't pay for themselves compared to
buying your tickets on the ground in Europe on a point-to-point
basis. Fares charged by travel agents, online or off line, are
inflated, and that includes www.raileurope.com.

Pricing of tickets can be a bit tedious. The bahn site above will
gove fares for journeys entirely within German, although it gives
schedules for almost all of Europe. Many of the national rail web
sites have fare calculators. The French site, http://www.sncf.com
gives fares for international trips originating in France.
http://thetrainline.com gives fares in the UK.

Different systems have an almost bewildering variety of discounts
and special fare rail cards. Best to visit the web sites of the
systems and try to work it out.

Tickets can be bought for almost any country in Europe at almost
any major rail station on the continent; they're all linked by
computer.

In general, first class ain't worth the price.

Trains are absurdly easy to use. The major stations have huge
schedule boards showing train, time and platform. The platform
will have charts showing the exact location of each car in the
train.

On longer distance trains you may, if you wish, buy seat
reservations assuring that you will have a place to sit. In
general you won't have trouble finding a seat anyway, but
reservations can be useful if there are several of you traveling
together and you want to be sure to sit together. Reservations
are quite cheap, five dollars or so.

Certain special trains, like the high speed trains, do it more
like airlines and the ticket and seat come together.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

David

Internet. www.bahn.de
Do some research. Its all out there.
Dave

[email protected] (Eric) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > Hi. I'm considering a trip to Germany and France in October. I'd like
    > to take a train from the Frankfurt, Germany airport to Paris, and then
    > after a few days a train from Paris to Lyon or Grenoble. Then from
    > either Lyon or Grenoble back to Frankfurt. The trip will last about
    > two weeks.
    >
    > In the past I've done part of this trip by car, but I'd like to try it
    > via train, but I've never traveled by train in Europe before. Any
    > guidance would be appreciated: train lines, rail passes, good place to
    > buy tickets, 1st vs. 2nd class, train stations, ease of use, web
    > sites, etc.
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > eric

John Bermont

Eric wrote:
    > Hi. I'm considering a trip to Germany and France in October. I'd like
    > to take a train from the Frankfurt, Germany airport to Paris, and then
    > after a few days a train from Paris to Lyon or Grenoble. Then from
    > either Lyon or Grenoble back to Frankfurt. The trip will last about
    > two weeks.
    >
    > In the past I've done part of this trip by car, but I'd like to try it
    > via train, but I've never traveled by train in Europe before. Any
    > guidance would be appreciated: train lines, rail passes, good place to
    > buy tickets, 1st vs. 2nd class, train stations, ease of use, web
    > sites, etc.
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > eric

Eric,

My page at http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm can get you
started in learning about the trains in Europe.

John Bermont

Robert

For Frankfurt Airport-Paris, the most reasonable option would probably
be taking an inter-city train to Cologne (cheaper if it's not the
high-speed ICE), and from Cologne taking a Thalys high-speed train to
Paris (via Brussels). For the cheapest Thalys fares, you must reserve
at least two weeks in advance; you should be able to do it on
www.thalys.com (and later pick up your ticket at the station). For
Frankfurt Airport-Cologne, just buy your ticket at the counter if you
need a one-way ticket; for cheaper advance return fares, may be worth
booking on www.bahn.de.

There are also options involving the German high-speed ICE train (for
Frankfurt-Airport-Cologne, or Frankfurt Airport-Brussels), and taking
Thalys onwards. But this is likely to cost you considerably more;
moreover, I don't think there is any way to book cheapest
international ICE fares online.

Robert

David Horne

Robert <[email protected]> wrote:

    > For the cheapest Thalys fares, you must reserve
    > at least two weeks in advance; you should be able to do it on
    > www.thalys.com (and later pick up your ticket at the station). For
    > Frankfurt Airport-Cologne, just buy your ticket at the counter if you
    > need a one-way ticket; for cheaper advance return fares, may be worth
    > booking on www.bahn.de.

Out of interest, can you buy 'connecting' fares? For example, if the
train to Cologne is late (admittedly not that common an occurence, but I
_have_ seen trains being quite late at Cologne)- what happens to your
onward Thalys reservation? Is this something you'd have to take
insurance for?

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Phil Richards

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:02:41 +0100 David Horne
<[email protected]> said...

    > Out of interest, can you buy 'connecting' fares? For example, if the
    > train to Cologne is late (admittedly not that common an occurence, but I
    > _have_ seen trains being quite late at Cologne)- what happens to your
    > onward Thalys reservation? Is this something you'd have to take
    > insurance for?

No, in the event the connecting train is late it is always best to seek
help straight away. German stations have large information desks on the
concourse who will work out the next connections to reach your
destination. In the case of Thalys they will endorse your ticket valid
for use on the next train. You probably won't be assured a seat on the
next train, but will be at least be able to board the next service.

--
Phil Richards
London, N4

Dr. Paul Sanschagrin

In article <[email protected] >,
[email protected] (Robert) writes:
    > For Frankfurt Airport-Paris, the most reasonable option would probably
    > be taking an inter-city train to Cologne (cheaper if it's not the
    > high-speed ICE), and from Cologne taking a Thalys high-speed train to
    > Paris (via Brussels). For the cheapest Thalys fares, you must reserve
    > at least two weeks in advance; you should be able to do it on
    > www.thalys.com (and later pick up your ticket at the station). For
    > Frankfurt Airport-Cologne, just buy your ticket at the counter if you
    > need a one-way ticket; for cheaper advance return fares, may be worth
    > booking on www.bahn.de.
    >
    > There are also options involving the German high-speed ICE train (for
    > Frankfurt-Airport-Cologne, or Frankfurt Airport-Brussels), and taking
    > Thalys onwards. But this is likely to cost you considerably more;
    > moreover, I don't think there is any way to book cheapest
    > international ICE fares online.
    >
    > Robert

Another option, if you arrive in Frankfurt early enough, would be to
catch the 10:44 EC direct from Frankfurt (Hauptbahnhof; main station)
to Paris. (The HBf is only a 15 minute S-Bahn/commuter rail ride from
the airport.) This is likely to be the cheapest option (should be
about EUR 75) and only involves the change at Frankfurt, but takes
about 6.5 hours (from Frankfurt). There's also a connection via RE
(regional train) direct from the airport to Saarbruecken where you can
catch the EC. This leaves the airport at 10:38. Checking the schedule
for all trains shows the ICE/Thayls connection to be the fastest (only
5 hours), but the cost will be much higher. IC to Cologne and then
Thayls is about 6 hours. One caveat is that the connection times in
Cologne to the Thayls are somewhat short and if you miss a train, the
next isn't for 2 hours.

In case all the abbreviations seem confusing:
ICE - InterCity Express: fastest, premier German trains, (the
Frankfurt-Cologne is the fastest route, running at 300 km/hr (180 mph)
in stretches)
IC - InterCity: somewhat slower, not as fancy but still nice
EC - EuroCity: international version of InterCity
RE - RegionalExpress: regional trains stopping at selected stations
RB - RegionalBahn: regional trains stopping at _every_ station (even
the ones you go by which only have grass for a platform)

Reservations are possible, but not required, on ICE, IC, and
EC. (There's a few ICEs where they are required, but a _very_ few.)

Enjoy your trip,
--
Paul Sanschagrin
http://staff.uni-marburg.de/~sanschag
sanschag@ COMBINE
mailer. THESE
uni-marburg. LINES
de

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
++ Benjamin Franklin ++
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or
that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only
unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public.
++ Theodore Roosevelt ++

Krist

Phil Richards wrote:

    > No, in the event the connecting train is late it is always best to seek
    > help straight away. German stations have large information desks on the
    > concourse who will work out the next connections to reach your
    > destination. In the case of Thalys they will endorse your ticket valid
    > for use on the next train. You probably won't be assured a seat on the
    > next train, but will be at least be able to board the next service.

If you miss your Thalys because of a late train you can take the first
train that goes to your destination. Even if it's an ICE, and not
another Thalys.

--
Krist

Eric

Thanks everyone for all the advice it really helped. Looks like it
shouldn't be too hard.

eric