Randee

After the 'Performance Today' program our local FM station
(http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/krwg/ppr/index.shtml) has a request
show on Fridays. Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia'; I
know that song is famous from the 'Proms', but am I correct in that it
is not really the national anthem of England?
--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald
[email protected]

Malcolm Stewart

"randee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia'; I
    > know that song is famous from the 'Proms', but am I correct in that it
    > is not really the national anthem of England?
    > --
    > wf.
    > Wayne Flowers
    > Randee Greenwald

Yes, you are correct.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

The Reids

Following up to randee

    >Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia';

God Save the Queen is the (dull) anthem. Jarusalem stands with
Rule Brittania as sort of national songs. They use the RB tune,
(not words) as part of the start of Radio 4 each morning.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Graham Harrison

THE National Anthem is "God Save the Queen". I guess it's a bit like the
difference between Hail to the Chief and The Star Spangled Banner. Don't
misunderstand, we don't play Rule Briannia when the Queen appears (even less
the PM) I'm just saying that there is more than one way of representing a
country.

"randee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > After the 'Performance Today' program our local FM station
    > (http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/krwg/ppr/index.shtml) has a request
    > show on Fridays. Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia'; I
    > know that song is famous from the 'Proms', but am I correct in that it
    > is not really the national anthem of England?
    > --
    > wf.
    > Wayne Flowers
    > Randee Greenwald
    > [email protected]

Owain

"randee" wrote
    | After the 'Performance Today' program our local FM station
    | (http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/krwg/ppr/index.shtml) has
    | a request show on Fridays. Today the first request was
    | for 'Rule Britannia'; I know that song is famous from
    | the 'Proms', but am I correct in that it is not really
    | the national anthem of England?

You are right; it is not. 'God Save The King' was a patriotic song first
publicly performed in London in 1745, which came to be referred to as the
National Anthem from the beginning of the nineteenth century. The words and
tune are anonymous, and may date back to the seventeenth century. ... There
is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are a matter of
tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years, but these are
rarely used. The words used are those sung in 1745, substituting 'Queen' for
'King' where appropriate.
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page317.asp

AFAIK the English national patriotic song is usually either 'Land of Hope
and Glory' which is/was official, or 'Jerusalem' which is merely de facto.

There's a big discussion at
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?thr...ges=106&page=1

The Welsh have Land of My Fathers (Fy Hen Wlad Fy Nghadau)[1] and the Scots
used to use Scotland the Brave, although this was changed to the Corries'
'Flower of Scotland' about 10 years ago.

Owain

[1] I'll ignore Sospan Bach :-)

Irwell

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:39:34 -0000, "Malcolm Stewart"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"randee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia'; I
    >> know that song is famous from the 'Proms', but am I correct in that it
    >> is not really the national anthem of England?
    >> --
    >> wf.
    >> Wayne Flowers
    >> Randee Greenwald
    >Yes, you are correct.
Rule Britannia, two tanners make a bob.
Three make one and six, and four two bob.

Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn

The Reids <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Following up to randee
    >
    > >Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia';
    >
    > God Save the Queen is the (dull) anthem. Jarusalem stands with
    > Rule Brittania as sort of national songs.

WRT Jerusalem, this always interests me, given that Blake is being
_ironic_ with his words! Still, nice tune.

    > They use the RB tune,
    > (not words) as part of the start of Radio 4 each morning.

Hey- progress! :)

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

The Reids

Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn

    >> God Save the Queen is the (dull) anthem. Jarusalem stands with
    >> Rule Brittania as sort of national songs.
    >WRT Jerusalem, this always interests me, given that Blake is being
    >_ironic_ with his words! Still, nice tune.

Blair being ironic? Oh Blake, i'm afraid it went over my head,

AND did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic mills?

so far so good, was God an Englishman, right?

Bring me my bow of burning gold:
Bring me my arrows of desire:
Bring me my spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire.

I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

OK, so we are buliding a religious thing, now do the labour party
sing it? Or is that the Red flag, I dont think I should have
opened the second bottle.

    >> They use the RB tune,
    >> (not words) as part of the start of Radio 4 each morning.
    >Hey- progress! :)

Oiy! :-)

Right, truth game time, do you listen to the Archers and how many
tunes can you name from the R4 theme? Clue: BRITISH broadcasting
corp

Early one morning
Drunken sailor
Jerusalem
Rule Brittania and...

Answer here to listen to
"http://www.sterlingtimes.org/music_themes20.htm"

--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn

The Reids <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn
    >
    > >> God Save the Queen is the (dull) anthem. Jarusalem stands with
    > >> Rule Brittania as sort of national songs.
    > >
    > >WRT Jerusalem, this always interests me, given that Blake is being
    > >_ironic_ with his words! Still, nice tune.
    >
    > Blair being ironic? Oh Blake, i'm afraid it went over my head,
[]
    > I will not cease from mental fight,
    > Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
    > Till we have built Jerusalem
    > In England's green and pleasant land.

Of course, the flag wavers at last night of the proms think it's _been_
built already! :)
[]
    > Right, truth game time, do you listen to the Archers

Yes!

    > and how many
    > tunes can you name from the R4 theme? Clue: BRITISH broadcasting
    > corp
    >
    > Early one morning
    > Drunken sailor
    > Jerusalem
    > Rule Brittania and...

Scotland the Brave
Men of Harlech
Greensleeves

I'm sure I've forgotten some...

    > Answer here to listen to
    > "http://www.sterlingtimes.org/music_themes20.htm"

Indeed I did! Great link- thanks!

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

The Reids

Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn

    >> "http://www.sterlingtimes.org/music_themes20.htm"
    >Indeed I did! Great link- thanks!

I listened too, how sad is that. I'll hear it anyway in a few
hours.

Archers, noted, you're on my little list.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Ff

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:24:27 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to randee
    >>Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia';
    >God Save the Queen is the (dull) anthem. Jarusalem stands with
    >Rule Brittania as sort of national songs. They use the RB tune,
    >(not words) as part of the start of Radio 4 each morning.

Umm.... the last time I was up that early they used Lilibulero! a much
more appropriate start to the Today Programme:-)

Liz
P.S. And our American cousins might like to borrow the first 2 lines:-)

James Silverton

"The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Following up to randee
    >>Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia';
    > God Save the Queen is the (dull) anthem. Jarusalem stands with
    > Rule Brittania as sort of national songs. They use the RB tune,
    > (not words) as part of the start of Radio 4 each morning.
    > --

It's interesting how many times I have read that God Save the Queen is
a dull tune. I guess it is a case, especially among Brits, of
"familiarity breeds contempt". According to Percy Scholes, in the form
of "America" or "My Country Tis of Thee" it was a strong contender for
the US anthem. As "Heil dir im Siegerkranz", it was once very popular
in Germany. In his diary for 1813, Beethoven said "I must show the
English what a blessing they have in God Save the King". The rather
better, IMHO, tune now know as that of "Deutschland Uber Alles" was
composed after a request to Haydn by the Austrian High Chancellor,
Haschka, who regretted that Austria did not have a comparable national
song to God Save the King.


--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland, USA

Arwel Parry

In message <[email protected]>, James Silverton
<[email protected]> writes
    >"The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected].. .
    >> Following up to randee
    >>>Today the first request was for 'Rule Britannia';
    >> God Save the Queen is the (dull) anthem. Jarusalem stands with
    >> Rule Brittania as sort of national songs. They use the RB tune,
    >> (not words) as part of the start of Radio 4 each morning.
    >> --
    >It's interesting how many times I have read that God Save the Queen is
    >a dull tune. I guess it is a case, especially among Brits, of
    >"familiarity breeds contempt". According to Percy Scholes, in the form
    >of "America" or "My Country Tis of Thee" it was a strong contender for
    >the US anthem. As "Heil dir im Siegerkranz", it was once very popular
    >in Germany. In his diary for 1813, Beethoven said "I must show the
    >English what a blessing they have in God Save the King". The rather
    >better, IMHO, tune now know as that of "Deutschland Uber Alles"

"Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser", I think you mean! :)

    >was composed after a request to Haydn by the Austrian High Chancellor,
    >Haschka, who regretted that Austria did not have a comparable national
    >song to God Save the King.

--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/

Arwel Parry

In message <[email protected]>, Owain
<[email protected]> writes
    >"randee" wrote
    >| After the 'Performance Today' program our local FM station
    >| (http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/krwg/ppr/index.shtml) has
    >| a request show on Fridays. Today the first request was
    >| for 'Rule Britannia'; I know that song is famous from
    >| the 'Proms', but am I correct in that it is not really
    >| the national anthem of England?
    >You are right; it is not. 'God Save The King' was a patriotic song first
    >publicly performed in London in 1745, which came to be referred to as the
    >National Anthem from the beginning of the nineteenth century. The words and
    >tune are anonymous, and may date back to the seventeenth century. ... There
    >is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are a matter of
    >tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years, but these are
    >rarely used. The words used are those sung in 1745, substituting 'Queen' for
    >'King' where appropriate.
    >http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page317.asp

The problem is that no-one ever remember the words of more than the
first verse of any national anthem, witness the embarrassment at England
football matches when the foreign band strikes up the second verse! In
Terry Pratchett's "Discworld", the author of the Ankh-Morpork national
anthem "We can rule you wholesale" deliberately wrote the second verse
as incoherent muttering, to avoid any embarrassment.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_can_rule_you_wholesale :)

    >AFAIK the English national patriotic song is usually either 'Land of Hope
    >and Glory' which is/was official, or 'Jerusalem' which is merely de facto.
    >There's a big discussion at
    >http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?thr...ges=106&page=1
    >The Welsh have Land of My Fathers (Fy Hen Wlad Fy Nghadau)[1] and the Scots
    >used to use Scotland the Brave, although this was changed to the Corries'
    >'Flower of Scotland' about 10 years ago.
    >Owain
    >[1] I'll ignore Sospan Bach :-)

--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/

Irwell

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 22:35:09 +0000, The Reids <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn
    >>> God Save the Queen is the (dull) anthem. Jarusalem stands with
    >>> Rule Brittania as sort of national songs.
    >>WRT Jerusalem, this always interests me, given that Blake is being
    >>_ironic_ with his words! Still, nice tune.
    >Blair being ironic? Oh Blake, i'm afraid it went over my head,
    >AND did those feet in ancient time
    >Walk upon England's mountains green?
    >And was the holy Lamb of God
    >On England's pleasant pastures seen?
    >And did the Countenance Divine
    >Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
    >And was Jerusalem builded here
    >Among these dark Satanic mills?
    >so far so good, was God an Englishman, right?
    >Bring me my bow of burning gold:
    >Bring me my arrows of desire:
    >Bring me my spear: O clouds unfold!
    >Bring me my chariot of fire.
    >I will not cease from mental fight,
    >Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
    >Till we have built Jerusalem
    >In England's green and pleasant land.
    >OK, so we are buliding a religious thing, now do the labour party
    >sing it? Or is that the Red flag, I dont think I should have
    >opened the second bottle.

The Women's Institute, they sing it prior to
starting their meeetings,

    >>> They use the RB tune,
    >>> (not words) as part of the start of Radio 4 each morning.
    >>Hey- progress! :)
    >Oiy! :-)
    >Right, truth game time, do you listen to the Archers and how many
    >tunes can you name from the R4 theme? Clue: BRITISH broadcasting
    >corp
    >Early one morning
    >Drunken sailor
    >Jerusalem
    >Rule Brittania and...
    >Answer here to listen to
    >"http://www.sterlingtimes.org/music_themes20.htm"