Getting Married in Rome
Aug 5th 2005, 9:43 am
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage Law (Was Re: Getting Married in Rome)
"S Viemeister" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "[email protected]" wrote:
>> Just as a matter of interest, I've been divorced after a registry
>> office marriage in Scotland. Now my lady friend is catholic and I was
>> brought up as a catholic. Would it be possible for us to get married
>> ina church, considering that the catholic church don't recognise
>> registry office marriages, so therefore, in their eyes, I haven't been
>> married?
> One of my oldest friends was married in a civil ceremony and later
> divorced. Her second marriage was in an RC church. There was no problem,
> because her first marriage wasn't a church one. This was about 20 years
> ago, and things may have changed since then.
Understanding of the correct position is not always perfect, even in
ecclesiastical circles.
news:[email protected]...
> "[email protected]" wrote:
>> Just as a matter of interest, I've been divorced after a registry
>> office marriage in Scotland. Now my lady friend is catholic and I was
>> brought up as a catholic. Would it be possible for us to get married
>> ina church, considering that the catholic church don't recognise
>> registry office marriages, so therefore, in their eyes, I haven't been
>> married?
> One of my oldest friends was married in a civil ceremony and later
> divorced. Her second marriage was in an RC church. There was no problem,
> because her first marriage wasn't a church one. This was about 20 years
> ago, and things may have changed since then.
Understanding of the correct position is not always perfect, even in
ecclesiastical circles.
Aug 5th 2005, 6:58 pm
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Registry offices and RCs (Was:Re: Getting Married in Rome)
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
[snip]
>> Why not just get married at the registry office, and spend the
>> honeymoon holidaying in a third world country that both needs the
>> cash, and will treat you really well?
>> Is that un-Christian or something?
> Well, the registry office bit is, if the couple are practising
> Catholics.
[snip]
No it is not.
Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
> DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
[snip]
>> Why not just get married at the registry office, and spend the
>> honeymoon holidaying in a third world country that both needs the
>> cash, and will treat you really well?
>> Is that un-Christian or something?
> Well, the registry office bit is, if the couple are practising
> Catholics.
[snip]
No it is not.
Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
Aug 5th 2005, 9:26 pm
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Marriage Law (Was Re: Getting Married in Rome)
"Fergus O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Understanding of the correct position is not always perfect, even in
>ecclesiastical circles.
Nor in usenet circles.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
>Understanding of the correct position is not always perfect, even in
>ecclesiastical circles.
Nor in usenet circles.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Aug 5th 2005, 9:30 pm
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Registry offices and RCs (Was:Re: Getting Married in Rome)
"Fergus O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>> DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>[snip]
>>> Why not just get married at the registry office, and spend the
>>> honeymoon holidaying in a third world country that both needs the
>>> cash, and will treat you really well?
>>> Is that un-Christian or something?
>> Well, the registry office bit is, if the couple are practising
>> Catholics.
>[snip]
>No it is not.
>Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
>the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
>marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
>so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
Two out of three ain't bad:
- typical Irish name;
- posting from an Irish address;
- an American sense of irony.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>> DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>[snip]
>>> Why not just get married at the registry office, and spend the
>>> honeymoon holidaying in a third world country that both needs the
>>> cash, and will treat you really well?
>>> Is that un-Christian or something?
>> Well, the registry office bit is, if the couple are practising
>> Catholics.
>[snip]
>No it is not.
>Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
>the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
>marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
>so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
Two out of three ain't bad:
- typical Irish name;
- posting from an Irish address;
- an American sense of irony.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Aug 6th 2005, 12:23 am
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RC Marriage rules (Was:Re: Getting Married in Rome)
Fergus O'Rourke wrote:
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected] ups.com...
> > Just as a matter of interest, I've been divorced after a registry
> > office marriage in Scotland. Now my lady friend is catholic and I was
> > brought up as a catholic. Would it be possible for us to get married
> > ina church, considering that the catholic church don't recognise
> > registry office marriages, so therefore, in their eyes, I haven't been
> > married?
> >
> > BTW, we're talking Ireland.
>
> I am not sure that it is correct to say that the RC church does not
> recognise
> such marriages. It is wrong in the Church's eyes to get married without
> receiving the sacrament of matrimony, but IIRC, it may still be a valid
> marriage.
>
> As far as the State is concerned, if you get married again, it will be
> bigamy.
How so? He and his first wife divorced.
Sheila
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected] ups.com...
> > Just as a matter of interest, I've been divorced after a registry
> > office marriage in Scotland. Now my lady friend is catholic and I was
> > brought up as a catholic. Would it be possible for us to get married
> > ina church, considering that the catholic church don't recognise
> > registry office marriages, so therefore, in their eyes, I haven't been
> > married?
> >
> > BTW, we're talking Ireland.
>
> I am not sure that it is correct to say that the RC church does not
> recognise
> such marriages. It is wrong in the Church's eyes to get married without
> receiving the sacrament of matrimony, but IIRC, it may still be a valid
> marriage.
>
> As far as the State is concerned, if you get married again, it will be
> bigamy.
How so? He and his first wife divorced.
Sheila
Aug 6th 2005, 2:49 am
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Married in Rome
"DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
[snip]
> A particularly strict Catholic relative of mine wants my marriage to
> my wife nullified, and reperformed in the appropriate way (we had a
> budget registry office wedding).
[snip]
Strict he may be, but he sounds theologically illiterate.
This combination is not uncommon.
message news:[email protected]...
[snip]
> A particularly strict Catholic relative of mine wants my marriage to
> my wife nullified, and reperformed in the appropriate way (we had a
> budget registry office wedding).
[snip]
Strict he may be, but he sounds theologically illiterate.
This combination is not uncommon.
Aug 6th 2005, 7:44 am
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Married in Rome
"Martin Harran" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tomic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > To the OP: why not contacting the US Embassy in Rome and see if they
know
> > the exact procedure?
> The others are right - I'm Irish :)
I apologize - I guess I didn't read your original post very carefully :)
news:[email protected]...
> "Tomic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > To the OP: why not contacting the US Embassy in Rome and see if they
know
> > the exact procedure?
> The others are right - I'm Irish :)
I apologize - I guess I didn't read your original post very carefully :)
Aug 6th 2005, 8:04 am
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Married in Rome
>> "Tomic" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > To the OP: why not contacting the US Embassy
>> > in Rome and see if they know the exact procedure?
>> The others are right - I'm Irish :)
> I apologize - I guess I didn't read your original post very carefully :)
If it hasn't been said: The OP may want to contact the ITALIAN
Embassy in his country for instructions, as it appears that there are
documents required of foreign nationals that need to be completed
prior to departure. The Italian Embassy in the U.S. has a webpage
with these instructions: http://www.italyemb.org/marriage.htm =R=
>> > To the OP: why not contacting the US Embassy
>> > in Rome and see if they know the exact procedure?
>> The others are right - I'm Irish :)
> I apologize - I guess I didn't read your original post very carefully :)
If it hasn't been said: The OP may want to contact the ITALIAN
Embassy in his country for instructions, as it appears that there are
documents required of foreign nationals that need to be completed
prior to departure. The Italian Embassy in the U.S. has a webpage
with these instructions: http://www.italyemb.org/marriage.htm =R=
Aug 6th 2005, 9:45 am
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Married in Rome
> If it hasn't been said: The OP may want to contact the ITALIAN
> Embassy in his country for instructions, as it appears that there are
> documents required of foreign nationals that need to be completed
> prior to departure. The Italian Embassy in the U.S. has a webpage
> with these instructions: http://www.italyemb.org/marriage.htm
Most countries require some sort of proof that the parties are both
legally free to marry. Having been through this twice myself: it's
a real pain trying to satisfy the German authorities on that point
(notarized translations of relevant documents), but that pales into
insignificance compared with the hassle of getting divorced from a
Yugoslav-then-Croatian national who's gone back home (the British
end created most of the problems, it was hard enough even getting
the Home Office to wake up to the fact that we were married in the
first place).
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
> Embassy in his country for instructions, as it appears that there are
> documents required of foreign nationals that need to be completed
> prior to departure. The Italian Embassy in the U.S. has a webpage
> with these instructions: http://www.italyemb.org/marriage.htm
Most countries require some sort of proof that the parties are both
legally free to marry. Having been through this twice myself: it's
a real pain trying to satisfy the German authorities on that point
(notarized translations of relevant documents), but that pales into
insignificance compared with the hassle of getting divorced from a
Yugoslav-then-Croatian national who's gone back home (the British
end created most of the problems, it was hard enough even getting
the Home Office to wake up to the fact that we were married in the
first place).
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Aug 6th 2005, 8:11 pm
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Married in Rome
On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 15:49:49 +0100, "Fergus O'Rourke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>[snip]
>> A particularly strict Catholic relative of mine wants my marriage to
>> my wife nullified, and reperformed in the appropriate way (we had a
>> budget registry office wedding).
>[snip]
>Strict he may be, but he sounds theologically illiterate.
>This combination is not uncommon.
I neglected to mention my wife gave Catholicism the arse a few years
back. As such, this is not really a combination!
The family still hold hope for us, but it's unlikely we'll be going to
church anytime soon.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>[snip]
>> A particularly strict Catholic relative of mine wants my marriage to
>> my wife nullified, and reperformed in the appropriate way (we had a
>> budget registry office wedding).
>[snip]
>Strict he may be, but he sounds theologically illiterate.
>This combination is not uncommon.
I neglected to mention my wife gave Catholicism the arse a few years
back. As such, this is not really a combination!
The family still hold hope for us, but it's unlikely we'll be going to
church anytime soon.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Aug 7th 2005, 12:56 am
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Married in Rome
On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 19:51:21 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, DDT Filled Mormons
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this :
... On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:12:05 +0100, "Mens sana" <[email protected]>
... wrote:
...
... >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
... >
... >HE wants YOUR marriage annulled!
... >
... >Would you not just tell him to go and have a shite for himself.
...
... In any other situation, yes. But this is Italy, and tolerating
... religious views whilst being hugely hipocritical is a way of life.
Does it look like *he* is respecting/tolerating your religious views (or lack thereof) to
you?
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this :
... On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:12:05 +0100, "Mens sana" <[email protected]>
... wrote:
...
... >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
... >
... >HE wants YOUR marriage annulled!
... >
... >Would you not just tell him to go and have a shite for himself.
...
... In any other situation, yes. But this is Italy, and tolerating
... religious views whilst being hugely hipocritical is a way of life.
Does it look like *he* is respecting/tolerating your religious views (or lack thereof) to
you?
Aug 8th 2005, 3:44 am
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Registry offices and RCs (Was:Re: Getting Married in Rome)
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Fergus O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>...
>>Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
>>the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
>>marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
>>so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
> Two out of three ain't bad:
> - typical Irish name;
> - posting from an Irish address;
> - an American sense of irony.
> ...
What is an American sense of irony? I thought we Americans all lacked irony,
American or otherwise?
Marianne
news:[email protected]...
> "Fergus O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>...
>>Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
>>the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
>>marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
>>so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
> Two out of three ain't bad:
> - typical Irish name;
> - posting from an Irish address;
> - an American sense of irony.
> ...
What is an American sense of irony? I thought we Americans all lacked irony,
American or otherwise?
Marianne
Aug 8th 2005, 3:44 am
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Registry offices and RCs (Was:Re: Getting Married in Rome)
"Mimi" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> "Fergus O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>...
>>>Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
>>>the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
>>>marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
>>>so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
>> Two out of three ain't bad:
>> - typical Irish name;
>> - posting from an Irish address;
>> - an American sense of irony.
>> ...
>What is an American sense of irony? I thought we Americans all lacked irony,
>American or otherwise?
:-)
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
>"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> "Fergus O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>...
>>>Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
>>>the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
>>>marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
>>>so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
>> Two out of three ain't bad:
>> - typical Irish name;
>> - posting from an Irish address;
>> - an American sense of irony.
>> ...
>What is an American sense of irony? I thought we Americans all lacked irony,
>American or otherwise?
:-)
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Aug 8th 2005, 6:26 am
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Registry offices and RCs (Was:Re: Getting Married in Rome)
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Fergus O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>...
> >>Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
> >>the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
> >>marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
> >>so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
> >>
> > Two out of three ain't bad:
> > - typical Irish name;
> > - posting from an Irish address;
> > - an American sense of irony.
> > ...
>
> What is an American sense of irony? I thought we Americans all lacked irony,
> American or otherwise?
>
Seconded ... :-)
>
--
Howard
[email protected] says...
>
> "Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Fergus O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>...
> >>Leaving aside the issue of whether breaching a precept of the RC church is
> >>the same as being un-Christian, that Church has no problem with people
> >>marrying in registry offices. The problem they have is with couples who do
> >>so without adding the sacrament of matrimony.
> >>
> > Two out of three ain't bad:
> > - typical Irish name;
> > - posting from an Irish address;
> > - an American sense of irony.
> > ...
>
> What is an American sense of irony? I thought we Americans all lacked irony,
> American or otherwise?
>
Seconded ... :-)
>
--
Howard
Aug 8th 2005, 8:00 pm
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RC Marriage rules (Was:Re: Getting Married in Rome)
"S Viemeister" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fergus O'Rourke wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected] ups.com...
>> > Just as a matter of interest, I've been divorced after a registry
>> > office marriage in Scotland. Now my lady friend is catholic and I was
>> > brought up as a catholic. Would it be possible for us to get married
>> > ina church, considering that the catholic church don't recognise
>> > registry office marriages, so therefore, in their eyes, I haven't been
>> > married?
>> >
>> > BTW, we're talking Ireland.
>> I am not sure that it is correct to say that the RC church does not
>> recognise
>> such marriages. It is wrong in the Church's eyes to get married without
>> receiving the sacrament of matrimony, but IIRC, it may still be a valid
>> marriage.
>> As far as the State is concerned, if you get married again, it will be
>> bigamy.
> How so? He and his first wife divorced.
If the divorce is valid in Irish law, as it is probably is, re-marriage
would not be regarded as bigamy by the State.
I can't remember what I was thinking of when I wrote my last sentence above.
(I hope that you haven't snipped any
necessary context).
news:[email protected]...
> Fergus O'Rourke wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected] ups.com...
>> > Just as a matter of interest, I've been divorced after a registry
>> > office marriage in Scotland. Now my lady friend is catholic and I was
>> > brought up as a catholic. Would it be possible for us to get married
>> > ina church, considering that the catholic church don't recognise
>> > registry office marriages, so therefore, in their eyes, I haven't been
>> > married?
>> >
>> > BTW, we're talking Ireland.
>> I am not sure that it is correct to say that the RC church does not
>> recognise
>> such marriages. It is wrong in the Church's eyes to get married without
>> receiving the sacrament of matrimony, but IIRC, it may still be a valid
>> marriage.
>> As far as the State is concerned, if you get married again, it will be
>> bigamy.
> How so? He and his first wife divorced.
If the divorce is valid in Irish law, as it is probably is, re-marriage
would not be regarded as bigamy by the State.
I can't remember what I was thinking of when I wrote my last sentence above.
(I hope that you haven't snipped any
necessary context).
