Doug Clark

We are planning to drive the back roads from France through
Bonn/Cologne/Leipzag/Berlin. We are planning on taking one week.

Any suggestions on what to see beyond the regular tour book items
would be appreciated.

Any suggestions on housing. (Formula 1 is our price but we would
prefer places with more flavor)

Any suggestions of food. (We are planning on using the available
farmers markets, Bake shops and take-away foods but we want to eat
more like the locals)

With the current exchange rate between the euro and dollar, this will
be a very expensive trip for US citizens.

Thanks in advance

Doug Clark

Tim

"Doug Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] om...
    > We are planning to drive the back roads from France through
    > Bonn/Cologne/Leipzag/Berlin. We are planning on taking one week.
    > Any suggestions on what to see beyond the regular tour book items
    > would be appreciated.

TBH I don't think Germany has many 'hidden' treasures.
Sights are mainly Baroque architecture and some natural beauty
and most of it is pretty extensively documented.

Though I did find the small towns in the Harz (Goslar, Wernigerode
Quedlingburg and some more) to be more intersting than the
guid suggested.

BTW Leipzig is not worth the trip. You need to go onto
Dresden and Swiss Saxony for the really interesting bit.

Buchenwald seems to be on your route, you might like to
stop off (I've never been, so I can't comment on what it is
like)

    > Any suggestions on housing. (Formula 1 is our price but we would
    > prefer places with more flavor)

Stick to small gasthofs in small towns. You'll have to take your
chance with what you find but I have stayed in some nice places
for around 25 Euro pp, I doubt you'll get down to the F1 price
of what appears to be 25 Euro for the room though.

OTOH I have ended up in some awful places when I was
desperate to find somewhere. Germans are good at wanting
to view a room and walking if they don't like it (I can't get used
to doing this) so you might like to check on what you are
getting at that price.

    > Any suggestions of food. (We are planning on using the available
    > farmers markets,

What's a farmers market? :-)

    > Bake shops

If this is a money saving exercise the last thing these are is
cheap. You can have a small meal in a bar for less than the
cost of two cakes from a bakers.

    > and take-away foods

McDs?

    > but we want to eat more like the locals)

Then frequent the local beer house many of them do very
good value meals. There are also regular fairs in German
towns and if you pass through one of these there will be
a range of food stalls which often sell some rather strange
things.

tim

John Bermont

tim wrote:
    > "Doug Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] om...
    >
    >>We are planning to drive the back roads from France through
    >>Bonn/Cologne/Leipzag/Berlin. We are planning on taking one week.
    >>Any suggestions on what to see beyond the regular tour book items
    >>would be appreciated.
    >
    >
    > TBH I don't think Germany has many 'hidden' treasures.
    > Sights are mainly Baroque architecture and some natural beauty
    > and most of it is pretty extensively documented.
    >
    > Though I did find the small towns in the Harz (Goslar, Wernigerode
    > Quedlingburg and some more) to be more intersting than the
    > guid suggested.
    >
    > BTW Leipzig is not worth the trip. You need to go onto
    > Dresden and Swiss Saxony for the really interesting bit.
    >
    > Buchenwald seems to be on your route, you might like to
    > stop off (I've never been, so I can't comment on what it is
    > like)
    >
    >
    >>Any suggestions on housing. (Formula 1 is our price but we would
    >>prefer places with more flavor)
    >
    >
    > Stick to small gasthofs in small towns. You'll have to take your
    > chance with what you find but I have stayed in some nice places
    > for around 25 Euro pp, I doubt you'll get down to the F1 price
    > of what appears to be 25 Euro for the room though.
    >
    > OTOH I have ended up in some awful places when I was
    > desperate to find somewhere. Germans are good at wanting
    > to view a room and walking if they don't like it (I can't get used
    > to doing this) so you might like to check on what you are
    > getting at that price.
    >
    >
    >>Any suggestions of food. (We are planning on using the available
    >>farmers markets,
    >
    >
    > What's a farmers market? :-)
    >
    >
    >>Bake shops
    >
    >
    > If this is a money saving exercise the last thing these are is
    > cheap. You can have a small meal in a bar for less than the
    > cost of two cakes from a bakers.
    >
    >
    >>and take-away foods
    >
    >
    > McDs?
    >
    >
    >>but we want to eat more like the locals)
    >
    >
    > Then frequent the local beer house many of them do very
    > good value meals. There are also regular fairs in German
    > towns and if you pass through one of these there will be
    > a range of food stalls which often sell some rather strange
    > things.
    >
    > tim
    >
    >

Also try any Metzgerei, butcher shop, for great sandwiches, salads, and
beer. Much better than McDun with good prices, and quick service if you
beat the lunch crowd. You can also picnic after visiting a market or a
series of cheese, bread, and wine shops.

If you haven't driven Europe before have a look at my page
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap18/auto.htm for tips.

John Bermont

--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

Erilar

In article <[email protected]>, "tim"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > BTW Leipzig is not worth the trip. You need to go onto
    > Dresden and Swiss Saxony for the really interesting bit.

I've been over that way more than once and could easily spend another
week there. 8-) I really anjoy Sachsen. I can't think of a reason to
visit Bonn, either.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

robert

On 11 Aug 2004 09:37:47 -0700, [email protected] (Doug Clark)

wrote:

    >We are planning to drive the back roads from France through
    >Bonn/Cologne/Leipzag/Berlin. We are planning on taking one week.
    >Any suggestions on what to see beyond the regular tour book items
    >would be appreciated.

    >Thanks in advance
    >Doug Clark


Just got back from Dresden... absolutely superb. Take a cruise on
the Elbe, drive to Bautzen where you'll find a beautiful old town.

Robert (www.pdaworldtravel.com)

Jon Bell

In article <[email protected]>,
erilar <[email protected]> wrote:
    > [...] I can't think of a reason to visit Bonn, either.

Well, there's the Beethoven house, which is worth a pilgrimage if you're
into that kind of music (as I am). There are also some good museums on
the "Museumsmeile" (along the Godesberger Allee headed towards Bad
Godesberg), although I've visited only the German History Museum, which
focuses on wartime and postwar Germany.

For crossing the Rhine, instead of simply driving across a bridge,
consider a ferry. For example, just south of Bonn there's a ferry from
Mehlem to Koenigswinter. If the weather is good, the view up and down the
Rhine from the Drachenfels in Koenigswinter is excellent. You can get up
there by riding an electric cog-railway or by hiking (I rode up and walked
down).

--
Jon Bell <[email protected]> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA

nitram

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 04:12:04 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Jon
Bell) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    >erilar <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> [...] I can't think of a reason to visit Bonn, either.
    >Well, there's the Beethoven house, which is worth a pilgrimage if you're
    >into that kind of music (as I am). There are also some good museums on
    >the "Museumsmeile" (along the Godesberger Allee headed towards Bad
    >Godesberg), although I've visited only the German History Museum, which
    >focuses on wartime and postwar Germany.
    >For crossing the Rhine, instead of simply driving across a bridge,
    >consider a ferry. For example, just south of Bonn there's a ferry from
    >Mehlem to Koenigswinter. If the weather is good, the view up and down the
    >Rhine from the Drachenfels in Koenigswinter is excellent. You can get up
    >there by riding an electric cog-railway or by hiking (I rode up and walked
    >down).

You could also take a boat trip to Koblenz or go even further south.

Frank Hucklenbroich

Am 11 Aug 2004 09:37:47 -0700 schrieb Doug Clark:

    > Any suggestions of food. (We are planning on using the available
    > farmers markets, Bake shops and take-away foods but we want to eat
    > more like the locals)

As for Germany: Some small pubs offer daily lunch, which is often quit
cheap. There are plenty of take-aways, not only German (favorite here fries
and curry-sausage), but mostly Italian (Pizza/pasta - takeaway) and turkish
(Kebab). Especially in the big cities there's huge competition among the
take-away shops and you will find good food for low prices.

As for Cologne: Try the area around university (Zuelpicher Str.), there's
lot's of take-aways at student-friendly prices.

In Bonn it should be similar (they also have a uni).

Farmers market's are plenty in Germany, market days differ from place to
place, most markets open on Friday though (as for fresh fish). Opening
hours are often only in the mornings (like from 7 to 12 am).

Some bigger bakery-chains also offer nice sandwiches or cakes and often you
can get a cup of coffee with it and sit down and eat it right there at some
small tables. Much better and cheaper than McD. Some butchers ("Metzgerei")
also do sandwiches.

As for the Hotels - you likely won't find anything cheaper than Formule-1
or Etap, at least not in the big cities. A notch more expensive (but very
nice) are the Ibis-Hotels (3*), they are often in very central locations
(as for Cologne - there's one right inside the central train station).

Drawback with Formule-1 is that they are far outside the city-center, but
if you have a car that won't be a problem.

Regards,

Frank

Frank Hucklenbroich

Am Thu, 12 Aug 2004 04:12:04 +0000 (UTC) schrieb Jon Bell:

    > For crossing the Rhine, instead of simply driving across a bridge,
    > consider a ferry. For example, just south of Bonn there's a ferry from
    > Mehlem to Koenigswinter. If the weather is good, the view up and down the
    > Rhine from the Drachenfels in Koenigswinter is excellent. You can get up
    > there by riding an electric cog-railway or by hiking (I rode up and walked
    > down).

You can also ride up by donkey ;-) That's what the people love to do when
they're drunk...

But beware, Koenigswinter is a favorite weekend-place for groups of elderly
people or sport-clubs to go drinking wine and dancing to old fashioned
music, the whole place is a bit old and worn round the edges, if you are
young it is a place you would want to avoid imho (unlessyou are over 50 you
might feel out of place).

The view is nice indeed but the rest of the place is a bit too touristy and
"kitsch" if you get what I mean. Rather drive down along the Rhine towards
Koblenz, there you find more genuine villages.

Regards,

Frank

nitram

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:29:38 +0200, Frank Hucklenbroich
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >Drawback with Formule-1 is that they are far outside the city-center, but
    >if you have a car that won't be a problem.

If you have a car you can usually find something nice, cheap and
German in a village.

Martin Bienwald

Jon Bell schrieb:

    > If the weather is good, the view up and down the
    > Rhine from the Drachenfels in Koenigswinter is excellent. You can get up
    > there by riding an electric cog-railway or by hiking (I rode up and walked
    > down).

Hiking? It's more like a nice short walk - a bit more than a mile and not
particularly steep graded. The cog-railway seems to be there mostly for
extracting money out of tourists' pockets; it's actually Germany's most
expensive train ride in euros per mile AFAIK.

Having said that, I also rode the cog-railway up when I was there,
probably for the same reason you did. ;-)

... Martin

Jon Bell

In article <[email protected]>,
Martin Bienwald <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Jon Bell schrieb:
    >> If the weather is good, the view up and down the
    >> Rhine from the Drachenfels in Koenigswinter is excellent. You can get up
    >> there by riding an electric cog-railway or by hiking (I rode up and walked
    >> down).
    >Hiking? It's more like a nice short walk - a bit more than a mile and not
    >particularly steep graded.

Except for a short section near the bottom. I worried a bit about my
knees while easing my way down through there. I'm not quite in the age
group that someone else mentioned, but I'm approaching it.

    >The cog-railway seems to be there mostly for
    >extracting money out of tourists' pockets; it's actually Germany's most
    >expensive train ride in euros per mile AFAIK.

I believe it. Something like 6.50 euros one way and 8 euros round trip.

    >Having said that, I also rode the cog-railway up when I was there,
    >probably for the same reason you did. ;-)

Did you also stop every hundred meters on the way down to take a picture
of the train as it went past? ;-)

As has been pointed out, it's a kind of kitschy place, but I think an
American tourist ought to visit at least one domestic German tourist trap
just for the cultural aspect of it, as opposed to an international-class
tourist trap like, say, Rothenburg (which we visited earlier on that
trip).

--
Jon Bell <[email protected]> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA

Martin Bienwald

Jon Bell schrieb:
    > Martin Bienwald:

    >>The cog-railway seems to be there mostly for
    >>extracting money out of tourists' pockets; it's actually Germany's most
    >>expensive train ride in euros per mile AFAIK.
    >
    > I believe it. Something like 6.50 euros one way and 8 euros round trip.

It was DEM 9 resp. 10 when I was there in 1997; obviuosly prices have
gone up.

    > Did you also stop every hundred meters on the way down to take a picture
    > of the train as it went past? ;-)

Not quite that often, but I did take a few shots.

    > As has been pointed out, it's a kind of kitschy place, but I think an
    > American tourist ought to visit at least one domestic German tourist trap

    :-)

... Martin

Doug Clark

Thanks for your advice!

We are off tomorrow.

Doug Clark
www.geocities.com/beulavillenc/europe2004





Frank Hucklenbroich <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Am 11 Aug 2004 09:37:47 -0700 schrieb Doug Clark:
    >
    > > Any suggestions of food. (We are planning on using the available
    > > farmers markets, Bake shops and take-away foods but we want to eat
    > > more like the locals)
    >
    > As for Germany: Some small pubs offer daily lunch, which is often quit
    > cheap. There are plenty of take-aways, not only German (favorite here fries
    > and curry-sausage), but mostly Italian (Pizza/pasta - takeaway) and turkish
    > (Kebab). Especially in the big cities there's huge competition among the
    > take-away shops and you will find good food for low prices.
    >
    > As for Cologne: Try the area around university (Zuelpicher Str.), there's
    > lot's of take-aways at student-friendly prices.
    >
    > In Bonn it should be similar (they also have a uni).
    >
    > Farmers market's are plenty in Germany, market days differ from place to
    > place, most markets open on Friday though (as for fresh fish). Opening
    > hours are often only in the mornings (like from 7 to 12 am).
    >
    > Some bigger bakery-chains also offer nice sandwiches or cakes and often you
    > can get a cup of coffee with it and sit down and eat it right there at some
    > small tables. Much better and cheaper than McD. Some butchers ("Metzgerei")
    > also do sandwiches.
    >
    > As for the Hotels - you likely won't find anything cheaper than Formule-1
    > or Etap, at least not in the big cities. A notch more expensive (but very
    > nice) are the Ibis-Hotels (3*), they are often in very central locations
    > (as for Cologne - there's one right inside the central train station).
    >
    > Drawback with Formule-1 is that they are far outside the city-center, but
    > if you have a car that won't be a problem.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Frank