The Reid

Following up to Tim Challenger

    >I thought Iraq oil was priced in Euros.

It is/was, one of the conspiracy theories is that getting it into
dollars was the reason for the war. As the war seems to have no
logical reason I suppose its as good as any.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reid

Following up to Go Fig

    >> > European fuel is highly taxed to
    >> > reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
    >> > "socialist" services you don't have
    >>
    >> Oh, they have state-funded roads, road police, traffic lights & so on in
    >> the US. They just choose to pay for these services through income tax,
    >Car fuel is taxed at the pump by both the State and the Fed... about
    >$0.10/liter.

Go Fig, don't build on the arguments of an idiot! OK US fuel is
taxed, we all know that. European fuel taxes are higher than
needed to finance road system, they are designed to drive people
into smaller more efficient cars, which works somewhat.
The cynic would say fuel is taxed because it has inelastic demand
and the politician can hide himself in the green flag.
Why this doesn't happen in US I don't know.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reid

Following up to 127.0.0.1

    >>Er, have you not heard of taxation? (Politicians can add it to
    >>the price of things, its quite a common practice).
    >if you had a clue you'd know that federal taxes on fuel in the US are
    >minimal, most of the taxes are levied by individual states

Er, yes. Why is it only the truly stupid think nobody else knows
anything? Can you grasp the concept that those small taxes could
be made larger, or is the too hard?

    >>Really, what a surprise to me! (European fuel is highly taxed to
    >>reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
    >>"socialist" services you don't have and in your case are probably
    >>too brainwashed to even want?).
    >bullshit, europeans fund their womb to tomb socialism on the backs of
    >motorists

would you like to explain why you say "bullshit" then repeat what
I said as if it was different?
As I predicted you cant grasp the concept that *we want it that
way*, its a better system, you see.

    >a clueless response from a truly clueless person

let that be your epitaph.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reid

Following up to Go Fig

    >Despite what Reid has said... this is exactly correct. Bush could
    >however issue an executive order to 'price freeze' or release national
    >security reserves.. very poor choices at this point.

when I say "Bush" that's short hand for US government, I have
little interest or knowledge of the detailed workings of the US
tax system. I'm only marginally more interested in the one here!
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reid

Following up to 127.0.0.1

    >>> in the UK fuel is so expensive because of the high taxes added to
    >>> the cost of fuel to fund the socialism in place there
    >>Socialism! where? I live in the UK right now and there is precious little
    >>sign of socialism
    >do the words health care mean anything?

socialism
noun [mass noun] a political and economic theory of
social organisation which advocates that the means of
production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or
regulated by the community as a whole.

We have unemployment pay, free at delivery health care and other
safety nets, fools like you think that that is socialism. People
like us know its the civilised way to run a society.

A US poster here tells me 50% of US bankruptcies are because
health care insurance runs out.
Please explain why this is a good thing.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Mxsmanic

The Reid writes:

    > A US poster here tells me 50% of US bankruptcies are because
    > health care insurance runs out.

At least the U.S. provides for bankruptcies. Many countries don't.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Keith Willshaw

"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > The Reid writes:
    > > A US poster here tells me 50% of US bankruptcies are because
    > > health care insurance runs out.
    > At least the U.S. provides for bankruptcies. Many countries don't.

Care to provide a list of countries that dont have bankruptcy laws ?

The only ones that I can think of that may not have such provisions
are the DPRK and Cuba.

Keith

Tim Challenger

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:17:51 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

    > At least the U.S. provides for bankruptcies. Many countries don't.

In Europe? Which ones?
--
Tim.

If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.

Earl Evleth

On 17/03/04 12:17, in article [email protected],
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > A US poster here tells me 50% of US bankruptcies are because
    >> health care insurance runs out.
    >
    > At least the U.S. provides for bankruptcies. Many countries don't.


In France there is a lot of shame attached to going broke. They
are still puritan in that sense.

America seems to have lost that aspect of puritanism, unless I am
mis-judging attitudes towards debt and savings. The Benjamin
Franklin attitude of "a penny saved is a penny earned" has passed
from the scene and replaced with "maxing out" on one's credit card.

So the US national saving rates hover around 0-4% and the French rate
is about 15%. I don`t know about other European countries?

An 11th commandment should have been added "thou shalt not go into debt".

And substituting one of the others with "thou shalt not go to the shopping
malls on Sunday".

Literally, if Jesus saves, so should you. :-)


Earl

The Reid

Following up to Mxsmanic

    >> A US poster here tells me 50% of US bankruptcies are because
    >> health care insurance runs out.
    >At least the U.S. provides for bankruptcies. Many countries don't.

you will understand that isn't a huge reassurance.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Tom Bellhouse

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC7DF831.2A9EB%[email protected]...
    > On 17/03/04 12:17, in article
[email protected],
    > "Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > A US poster here tells me 50% of US
bankruptcies are because
    > >> health care insurance runs out.
    > >
    > > At least the U.S. provides for bankruptcies.
Many countries don't.
    > In France there is a lot of shame attached to
going broke. They
    > are still puritan in that sense.
    > America seems to have lost that aspect of
puritanism, unless I am
    > mis-judging attitudes towards debt and savings.
The Benjamin
    > Franklin attitude of "a penny saved is a penny
earned" has passed
    > from the scene and replaced with "maxing out" on
one's credit card.
    > So the US national saving rates hover around
0-4% and the French rate
    > is about 15%. I don`t know about other European
countries?
    > An 11th commandment should have been added "thou
shalt not go into debt".
    > And substituting one of the others with "thou
shalt not go to the shopping
    > malls on Sunday".
    > Literally, if Jesus saves, so should you. :-)
    > Earl

Earl, do you remember Mel Brooks in "History of
the World - Part 2"? Moses comes down from the
mountain with three tablets in his hands. "I have
brought you these fifteen..." (one slips, falls
and smashes on the ground) -- "these ten, ten
commandments." Maybe your suggested commandments
were on the tablet that fell!

Tom

Hatunen

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:30:01 +0000, The Reid
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to Go Fig
    >>> > European fuel is highly taxed to
    >>> > reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
    >>> > "socialist" services you don't have
    >>>
    >>> Oh, they have state-funded roads, road police, traffic lights & so on in
    >>> the US. They just choose to pay for these services through income tax,
    >>Car fuel is taxed at the pump by both the State and the Fed... about
    >>$0.10/liter.
    >Go Fig, don't build on the arguments of an idiot! OK US fuel is
    >taxed, we all know that. European fuel taxes are higher than
    >needed to finance road system, they are designed to drive people
    >into smaller more efficient cars, which works somewhat.

Europe has had high fuel taxes since long before anyone cared
about more efficient cars.

    >The cynic would say fuel is taxed because it has inelastic

Probably originally.

    >demand
    >and the politician can hide himself in the green flag.

Conveniently.

    >Why this doesn't happen in US I don't know.

Unlike the Europeans, the US had its own oil and only stopped
being a net exporter well after WW2.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:42:25 +0100, Earl Evleth
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >In France there is a lot of shame attached to going broke. They
    >are still puritan in that sense.
    >America seems to have lost that aspect of puritanism, unless I am
    >mis-judging attitudes towards debt and savings. The Benjamin
    >Franklin attitude of "a penny saved is a penny earned" has passed
    >from the scene and replaced with "maxing out" on one's credit card.

It is argued that the lack of stigma to bankruptcy is one of the
reasons for the US entrepeneurial spirit. People are unafraid to
start innovative new businesses knowing that failure will not
keep them down forever. In fact, some entrepeneurs pride
themselves on being able to start now-growing businesses after a
bankruptcy or two. The Economist has, from time to time, lamented
the European fear of failure as being one of the stumbling blocks
to European innovation in the broad sense as in the USA.

Personal bankruptcies are another thing, but the lack of stigma
transfers over. But few people start spending heavily with the
intent of filing for personal banruptcy.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Me

Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BC7DF831.2A9EB%[email protected]>...
[snip]
    > America seems to have lost that aspect of puritanism, unless I am
    > mis-judging attitudes towards debt and savings. The Benjamin
    > Franklin attitude of "a penny saved is a penny earned" has passed
    > from the scene and replaced with "maxing out" on one's credit card.

Interesting article in the Village Voice about this problem.
It points out the increasing costs of a college education and
the debt burden many students run up getting one. It puts them
in debt right up front and many stay there for large majorities
of their lives. Heavily influences saving patterns.

    > So the US national saving rates hover around 0-4% and the French rate
    > is about 15%. I don`t know about other European countries?

This is one of those oft quoted statistics, usually with respect
to the Japanese. But it does seem a bit ingenuous to not mention
the high level of home ownership in the US. For many Americans
it is where the vast majority of their "savings" reside.

    > An 11th commandment should have been added "thou shalt not go into debt".

Would seem there is some biblical admonishing about debt, from
one side or the other.

    > And substituting one of the others with "thou shalt not go to the shopping
    > malls on Sunday".
    >
    > Literally, if Jesus saves, so should you. :-)

Jesus saves.
Moses invests.

127 . 0 . 0 . 1

On 17 Mar 2004 11:35:41 -0800, [email protected] (me) wrote:

    >Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BC7DF831.2A9EB%[email protected]>...
    >[snip]
    >> America seems to have lost that aspect of puritanism, unless I am
    >> mis-judging attitudes towards debt and savings. The Benjamin
    >> Franklin attitude of "a penny saved is a penny earned" has passed
    >> from the scene and replaced with "maxing out" on one's credit card.
    > Interesting article in the Village Voice about this problem.
now that's a credible source, a rag that's given away for free!



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