Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
Mar 16th 2004, 3:21 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:05:26 +0000, Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
> Mark Hewitt wrote:
>
>> "Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:BC7C9D85.2A7AA%[email protected]...
>> >
>> > For the first two months of the year, the average statewide retail price
>> for
>> > diesel rose more than 26 cents a gallon to $1.939, a jump of more than
>> 15%,
>> > according to figures from the Energy Information Administration, an arm
> of
>> > the U.S. Energy Department. On March 8, the statewide average fell about
> a
>> > penny, to $1.927, mirroring the slight pullback of gasoline prices.
>> Awww what a shame, I feel so sorry for them!
>> Try coming to the UK. Approx US$5.34 per US Gallon here.
>
> Historically speaking, the price of petrol here in the States is still dirt
> cheap. The average US price (per an article in today's paper) is now about
> $1.70. That is about $0.26 per gallon at 1955 prices, $0.71 per gallon in
> 1980, etc. (inflation adjustment per http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ ).
>
> Fuel is still *absurdly* cheap in the States, even if it goes up to more
> than $2.50 or more per gallon....
But the rest of the world gets to help them pay the environmental price
>
> Mark Hewitt wrote:
>
>> "Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:BC7C9D85.2A7AA%[email protected]...
>> >
>> > For the first two months of the year, the average statewide retail price
>> for
>> > diesel rose more than 26 cents a gallon to $1.939, a jump of more than
>> 15%,
>> > according to figures from the Energy Information Administration, an arm
> of
>> > the U.S. Energy Department. On March 8, the statewide average fell about
> a
>> > penny, to $1.927, mirroring the slight pullback of gasoline prices.
>> Awww what a shame, I feel so sorry for them!
>> Try coming to the UK. Approx US$5.34 per US Gallon here.
>
> Historically speaking, the price of petrol here in the States is still dirt
> cheap. The average US price (per an article in today's paper) is now about
> $1.70. That is about $0.26 per gallon at 1955 prices, $0.71 per gallon in
> 1980, etc. (inflation adjustment per http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ ).
>
> Fuel is still *absurdly* cheap in the States, even if it goes up to more
> than $2.50 or more per gallon....
But the rest of the world gets to help them pay the environmental price
Mar 16th 2004, 3:23 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
On 16 Mar 2004 08:18:19 -0800, me wrote:
> Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>> I don't see any mention of Europe here.
>
> Not to mention that oil is sold in dollars so that if anything,
> oil/gas should be down right cheap these days. The dollar
> is down anywhere from 20 - 40 % depending upon the point of
> comparison. Should be stabilizing the cost of fuel if anything.
I thought Iraq oil was priced in Euros.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
> Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>> I don't see any mention of Europe here.
>
> Not to mention that oil is sold in dollars so that if anything,
> oil/gas should be down right cheap these days. The dollar
> is down anywhere from 20 - 40 % depending upon the point of
> comparison. Should be stabilizing the cost of fuel if anything.
I thought Iraq oil was priced in Euros.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
Mar 16th 2004, 3:41 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:04 -0500, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:12:52 +0000, The Reid
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Following up to Earl Evleth
>>>Walt Unterseher, an owner-driver based in Carlsbad, Calif., passes on those
>>>kinds of jobs, too. His flatbed trailer, which gets a maximum of 6.5 miles
>>>per gallon, is parked.
>>>"You can go into any truck stop and everybody is crying about the high cost
>>>of fuel and low freight rates," Unterseher said. "There's always somebody
>>>out there thinking, 'well, I've got to run,' but you can't run for nothing
>>>forever, it's going to catch up to you."
>>So fuel is dirt cheap but the truckers still get squeezed, isn't
>>that capitalism as US likes it? I think truckers in UK have same
>>problem, its nothing to do with price of diesel, rather the
>>oversupply of truckers overcompeting for work. Bush could treble
>>the price of diesel, (fat chance) and little would change in the
>>short term. Truckers would still be forced to work just at edge
>>of making a profit. In the medium term it might be less economic
>>to shift stuff around so much, so less truckers. Either way it
>>sounds like there are too many trucks.
> you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
Georgy Porgy is not going to be pleased to learn that - he thinks he
controls taxes
>or the UK,
Debatable
> in the UK fuel is so expensive because of the high taxes added to
> the cost of fuel to fund the socialism in place there
Socialism! where? I live in the UK right now and there is precious little
sign of socialism
But i guess that you mean free-at-the-point-of-use healthcare for
everyone, pensions for the old and sick, benefits for the disabled and
free(ish) high-quality education - all very reprehensible, I'm sure.
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:12:52 +0000, The Reid
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Following up to Earl Evleth
>>>Walt Unterseher, an owner-driver based in Carlsbad, Calif., passes on those
>>>kinds of jobs, too. His flatbed trailer, which gets a maximum of 6.5 miles
>>>per gallon, is parked.
>>>"You can go into any truck stop and everybody is crying about the high cost
>>>of fuel and low freight rates," Unterseher said. "There's always somebody
>>>out there thinking, 'well, I've got to run,' but you can't run for nothing
>>>forever, it's going to catch up to you."
>>So fuel is dirt cheap but the truckers still get squeezed, isn't
>>that capitalism as US likes it? I think truckers in UK have same
>>problem, its nothing to do with price of diesel, rather the
>>oversupply of truckers overcompeting for work. Bush could treble
>>the price of diesel, (fat chance) and little would change in the
>>short term. Truckers would still be forced to work just at edge
>>of making a profit. In the medium term it might be less economic
>>to shift stuff around so much, so less truckers. Either way it
>>sounds like there are too many trucks.
> you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
Georgy Porgy is not going to be pleased to learn that - he thinks he
controls taxes
>or the UK,
Debatable
> in the UK fuel is so expensive because of the high taxes added to
> the cost of fuel to fund the socialism in place there
Socialism! where? I live in the UK right now and there is precious little
sign of socialism
But i guess that you mean free-at-the-point-of-use healthcare for
everyone, pensions for the old and sick, benefits for the disabled and
free(ish) high-quality education - all very reprehensible, I'm sure.
Mar 16th 2004, 3:58 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
"John Stolz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news
[email protected]...
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:04 -0500, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
> > you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
> Georgy Porgy is not going to be pleased to learn that - he thinks he
> controls taxes
Erm no, only congress can levy taxes in the USA, the president
can try and persuade them to pass a tax bill he prefers but
it has to pass through the House and Senate.
Keith
news
[email protected]...> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:04 -0500, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
> > you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
> Georgy Porgy is not going to be pleased to learn that - he thinks he
> controls taxes
Erm no, only congress can levy taxes in the USA, the president
can try and persuade them to pass a tax bill he prefers but
it has to pass through the House and Senate.
Keith
Mar 16th 2004, 4:18 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
In article <[email protected]>, Wolfgang Schwanke
<[email protected]> wrote:
> The Reid <[email protected]> wrote in
> news[email protected]:
>
> > European fuel is highly taxed to
> > reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
> > "socialist" services you don't have
>
> Oh, they have state-funded roads, road police, traffic lights & so on in
> the US. They just choose to pay for these services through income tax,
Car fuel is taxed at the pump by both the State and the Fed... about
$0.10/liter.
jay
Tue Mar 16, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
> which is also paid by many non-drivers even though they don't profit from
> roads etc., whereas most European countries choose to pay for them by a
> form of tax which by definition only car drivers pay, and proportionally to
> their amount of road use at that.
>
> Regards
<[email protected]> wrote:
> The Reid <[email protected]> wrote in
> news
[email protected]:>
> > European fuel is highly taxed to
> > reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
> > "socialist" services you don't have
>
> Oh, they have state-funded roads, road police, traffic lights & so on in
> the US. They just choose to pay for these services through income tax,
Car fuel is taxed at the pump by both the State and the Fed... about
$0.10/liter.
jay
Tue Mar 16, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
> which is also paid by many non-drivers even though they don't profit from
> roads etc., whereas most European countries choose to pay for them by a
> form of tax which by definition only car drivers pay, and proportionally to
> their amount of road use at that.
>
> Regards
Mar 16th 2004, 4:44 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
The Reid <[email protected]> wrote in
news[email protected]:
> European fuel is highly taxed to
> reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
> "socialist" services you don't have
Oh, they have state-funded roads, road police, traffic lights & so on in
the US. They just choose to pay for these services through income tax,
which is also paid by many non-drivers even though they don't profit from
roads etc., whereas most European countries choose to pay for them by a
form of tax which by definition only car drivers pay, and proportionally to
their amount of road use at that.
Regards
--
der die das, wieso weshalb warum
the the the, why why why
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
news
[email protected]:> European fuel is highly taxed to
> reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
> "socialist" services you don't have
Oh, they have state-funded roads, road police, traffic lights & so on in
the US. They just choose to pay for these services through income tax,
which is also paid by many non-drivers even though they don't profit from
roads etc., whereas most European countries choose to pay for them by a
form of tax which by definition only car drivers pay, and proportionally to
their amount of road use at that.
Regards
--
der die das, wieso weshalb warum
the the the, why why why
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
Mar 16th 2004, 4:51 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:25:04 +0000, The Reid
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to 127.0.0.1
>LOL, the funniest post I have seen in weeks.
>>you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
>Er, have you not heard of taxation? (Politicians can add it to
>the price of things, its quite a common practice).
if you had a clue you'd know that federal taxes on fuel in the US are
minimal, most of the taxes are levied by individual states
>>or the UK
>or China, Poland, Australia..........
>>, in the UK fuel is so expensive because of the high taxes added to
>>the cost of fuel to fund the socialism in place there
>Really, what a surprise to me! (European fuel is highly taxed to
>reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
>"socialist" services you don't have and in your case are probably
>too brainwashed to even want?).
bullshit, europeans fund their womb to tomb socialism on the backs of
motorists
>Thanks for confirming americans(?) who throw "socialism" around
>as an insult are a joke.
>As are trolls, which are you, sonny?
>Still, thanks for giving me a good laugh.
a clueless response from a truly clueless person
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<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to 127.0.0.1
>LOL, the funniest post I have seen in weeks.
>>you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
>Er, have you not heard of taxation? (Politicians can add it to
>the price of things, its quite a common practice).
if you had a clue you'd know that federal taxes on fuel in the US are
minimal, most of the taxes are levied by individual states
>>or the UK
>or China, Poland, Australia..........
>>, in the UK fuel is so expensive because of the high taxes added to
>>the cost of fuel to fund the socialism in place there
>Really, what a surprise to me! (European fuel is highly taxed to
>reduce consumption and fund the free at point of delivery
>"socialist" services you don't have and in your case are probably
>too brainwashed to even want?).
bullshit, europeans fund their womb to tomb socialism on the backs of
motorists
>Thanks for confirming americans(?) who throw "socialism" around
>as an insult are a joke.
>As are trolls, which are you, sonny?
>Still, thanks for giving me a good laugh.
a clueless response from a truly clueless person
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Mar 16th 2004, 4:52 am
#23
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Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:31:24 -0500, John Stolz
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:04 -0500, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:12:52 +0000, The Reid
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Following up to Earl Evleth
>>>>Walt Unterseher, an owner-driver based in Carlsbad, Calif., passes on those
>>>>kinds of jobs, too. His flatbed trailer, which gets a maximum of 6.5 miles
>>>>per gallon, is parked.
>>>>"You can go into any truck stop and everybody is crying about the high cost
>>>>of fuel and low freight rates," Unterseher said. "There's always somebody
>>>>out there thinking, 'well, I've got to run,' but you can't run for nothing
>>>>forever, it's going to catch up to you."
>>>So fuel is dirt cheap but the truckers still get squeezed, isn't
>>>that capitalism as US likes it? I think truckers in UK have same
>>>problem, its nothing to do with price of diesel, rather the
>>>oversupply of truckers overcompeting for work. Bush could treble
>>>the price of diesel, (fat chance) and little would change in the
>>>short term. Truckers would still be forced to work just at edge
>>>of making a profit. In the medium term it might be less economic
>>>to shift stuff around so much, so less truckers. Either way it
>>>sounds like there are too many trucks.
>> you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
>Georgy Porgy is not going to be pleased to learn that - he thinks he
>controls taxes
>>or the UK,
>Debatable
>> in the UK fuel is so expensive because of the high taxes added to
>> the cost of fuel to fund the socialism in place there
>Socialism! where? I live in the UK right now and there is precious little
>sign of socialism
do the words health care mean anything?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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reply via the newsgroups or ask for a valid email address.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:04 -0500, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:12:52 +0000, The Reid
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Following up to Earl Evleth
>>>>Walt Unterseher, an owner-driver based in Carlsbad, Calif., passes on those
>>>>kinds of jobs, too. His flatbed trailer, which gets a maximum of 6.5 miles
>>>>per gallon, is parked.
>>>>"You can go into any truck stop and everybody is crying about the high cost
>>>>of fuel and low freight rates," Unterseher said. "There's always somebody
>>>>out there thinking, 'well, I've got to run,' but you can't run for nothing
>>>>forever, it's going to catch up to you."
>>>So fuel is dirt cheap but the truckers still get squeezed, isn't
>>>that capitalism as US likes it? I think truckers in UK have same
>>>problem, its nothing to do with price of diesel, rather the
>>>oversupply of truckers overcompeting for work. Bush could treble
>>>the price of diesel, (fat chance) and little would change in the
>>>short term. Truckers would still be forced to work just at edge
>>>of making a profit. In the medium term it might be less economic
>>>to shift stuff around so much, so less truckers. Either way it
>>>sounds like there are too many trucks.
>> you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
>Georgy Porgy is not going to be pleased to learn that - he thinks he
>controls taxes
>>or the UK,
>Debatable
>> in the UK fuel is so expensive because of the high taxes added to
>> the cost of fuel to fund the socialism in place there
>Socialism! where? I live in the UK right now and there is precious little
>sign of socialism
do the words health care mean anything?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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reply via the newsgroups or ask for a valid email address.
Mar 16th 2004, 4:52 am
#24
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Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
On 16 Mar 2004 08:18:19 -0800, [email protected] (me) wrote:
>Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>> I don't see any mention of Europe here.
> Not to mention that oil is sold in dollars so that if anything,
>oil/gas should be down right cheap these days. The dollar
>is down anywhere from 20 - 40 % depending upon the point of
>comparison. Should be stabilizing the cost of fuel if anything.
that is exactly opposite of the reality, a weak dollar means higher
oil prices
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>Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
>> I don't see any mention of Europe here.
> Not to mention that oil is sold in dollars so that if anything,
>oil/gas should be down right cheap these days. The dollar
>is down anywhere from 20 - 40 % depending upon the point of
>comparison. Should be stabilizing the cost of fuel if anything.
that is exactly opposite of the reality, a weak dollar means higher
oil prices
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because of the current email spam attacks my email account is not included,
reply via the newsgroups or ask for a valid email address.
Mar 16th 2004, 4:54 am
#25
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Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:23:33 GMT, Tim Challenger
<"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote:
>I thought Iraq oil was priced in Euros.
and just how much oil is making out of iraq these days? clue, the
amount is insignificant on the world oil markets
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<"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote:
>I thought Iraq oil was priced in Euros.
and just how much oil is making out of iraq these days? clue, the
amount is insignificant on the world oil markets
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Mar 16th 2004, 5:50 am
#26
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Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
> Fuel is still *absurdly* cheap in the States, even if it goes up to more
> than $2.50 or more per gallon....
>
I think that depends on whether you count the U.S. military
adventures in the Persian Gulf, which many think are motivated by
a desire to secure oil supplies, as part of the cost of gasoline.
If so, factoring in the "defense" budget, the price is probably
already more like $15 a gallon.
-- Ron
>
> Fuel is still *absurdly* cheap in the States, even if it goes up to more
> than $2.50 or more per gallon....
>
I think that depends on whether you count the U.S. military
adventures in the Persian Gulf, which many think are motivated by
a desire to secure oil supplies, as part of the cost of gasoline.
If so, factoring in the "defense" budget, the price is probably
already more like $15 a gallon.
-- Ron
Mar 16th 2004, 6:37 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:50:59 -0500, Ronald Hands
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>
>> Fuel is still *absurdly* cheap in the States, even if it goes up to more
>> than $2.50 or more per gallon....
>>
> I think that depends on whether you count the U.S. military
>adventures in the Persian Gulf, which many think are motivated by
>a desire to secure oil supplies, as part of the cost of gasoline.
> If so, factoring in the "defense" budget, the price is probably
>already more like $15 a gallon.
So. Let's get rid of the surmise:
How many barrels of oil are being used for this and how much is
the defense budget specifically devoted to the Middle East, with
and without the war in Iraq? I think we can all manage the long
division involved.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>
>> Fuel is still *absurdly* cheap in the States, even if it goes up to more
>> than $2.50 or more per gallon....
>>
> I think that depends on whether you count the U.S. military
>adventures in the Persian Gulf, which many think are motivated by
>a desire to secure oil supplies, as part of the cost of gasoline.
> If so, factoring in the "defense" budget, the price is probably
>already more like $15 a gallon.
So. Let's get rid of the surmise:
How many barrels of oil are being used for this and how much is
the defense budget specifically devoted to the Middle East, with
and without the war in Iraq? I think we can all manage the long
division involved.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Mar 16th 2004, 6:40 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
In article <[email protected]>, Keith Willshaw
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "John Stolz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:04 -0500, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
> >
>
> > > you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
> > Georgy Porgy is not going to be pleased to learn that - he thinks he
> > controls taxes
> >
>
> Erm no, only congress can levy taxes in the USA, the president
> can try and persuade them to pass a tax bill he prefers but
> it has to pass through the House and Senate.
>
> Keith
Despite what Reid has said... this is exactly correct. Bush could
however issue an executive order to 'price freeze' or release national
security reserves.. very poor choices at this point.
jay
Tue Mar 16, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
>
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "John Stolz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news
[email protected]...> > On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:04 -0500, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
> >
>
> > > you fool, bush does not control the price of diesel in the US
> > Georgy Porgy is not going to be pleased to learn that - he thinks he
> > controls taxes
> >
>
> Erm no, only congress can levy taxes in the USA, the president
> can try and persuade them to pass a tax bill he prefers but
> it has to pass through the House and Senate.
>
> Keith
Despite what Reid has said... this is exactly correct. Bush could
however issue an executive order to 'price freeze' or release national
security reserves.. very poor choices at this point.
jay
Tue Mar 16, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
>
>
Mar 16th 2004, 12:23 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
Keith Willshaw writes:
> Erm no, only congress can levy taxes in the USA, the president
> can try and persuade them to pass a tax bill he prefers but
> it has to pass through the House and Senate.
Yeah, and only Congress can declare war. At least in theory.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Erm no, only congress can levy taxes in the USA, the president
> can try and persuade them to pass a tax bill he prefers but
> it has to pass through the House and Senate.
Yeah, and only Congress can declare war. At least in theory.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Mar 16th 2004, 1:47 pm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is a fuel crisis coming in Europe??
Tim Challenger <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote in message news:<[email protected] ws.com>...
> On 16 Mar 2004 08:18:19 -0800, me wrote:
>
> > Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
> >> I don't see any mention of Europe here.
> >
> > Not to mention that oil is sold in dollars so that if anything,
> > oil/gas should be down right cheap these days. The dollar
> > is down anywhere from 20 - 40 % depending upon the point of
> > comparison. Should be stabilizing the cost of fuel if anything.
>
> I thought Iraq oil was priced in Euros.
Nah. Besides, especially not now.
> On 16 Mar 2004 08:18:19 -0800, me wrote:
>
> > Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
> >> I don't see any mention of Europe here.
> >
> > Not to mention that oil is sold in dollars so that if anything,
> > oil/gas should be down right cheap these days. The dollar
> > is down anywhere from 20 - 40 % depending upon the point of
> > comparison. Should be stabilizing the cost of fuel if anything.
>
> I thought Iraq oil was priced in Euros.
Nah. Besides, especially not now.
