French Conversation
May 9th 2005, 4:55 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
Jordi wrote:
> Deep Foiled Malls ha escrito:
>
>
>>Given the similarities between Italian and French, how far has
>
> Italian
>
>>gotten you in France? More to the point, would I be better off
>>pretending to speak Italian as a first language than English?
>
>
> It won't take you very long, although you may find some word-by-word
> similarities you will probably go further with a limited French plus
> his/her limited (or not) English.
>
> In Spain or (less) Portugal, that would be a different matter. French
> is perhaps the most unique of romance languages.
What about Romanian? (I once worked with a woman from
Transylvania (where they may speak either Hungarian or
Romanian) - she taught me a few phrases, but even though
Romanina is supposed to be a romance language, I didn't see
much similarity to any of the three with which I have a
nodding acquaintance.
>
> J.
>
> Deep Foiled Malls ha escrito:
>
>
>>Given the similarities between Italian and French, how far has
>
> Italian
>
>>gotten you in France? More to the point, would I be better off
>>pretending to speak Italian as a first language than English?
>
>
> It won't take you very long, although you may find some word-by-word
> similarities you will probably go further with a limited French plus
> his/her limited (or not) English.
>
> In Spain or (less) Portugal, that would be a different matter. French
> is perhaps the most unique of romance languages.
What about Romanian? (I once worked with a woman from
Transylvania (where they may speak either Hungarian or
Romanian) - she taught me a few phrases, but even though
Romanina is supposed to be a romance language, I didn't see
much similarity to any of the three with which I have a
nodding acquaintance.
>
> J.
>
May 9th 2005, 5:33 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
quiqueg writes:
> almost the exact contrary of what usually happens to me when I travel in
> France, where I try to use all the languages in my grasp before, out of
> desperation, going to my poor, wretched French.
It depends a lot on how well you speak French. If you are reasonably
fluent, the French will generally speak to you in French, rather than
reveal their inferior English. If your French is very poor, they will
speak in English, thus revealing their superior command of that
language. Of course, this also comes from a tendency to choose
whichever language both parties speak the most fluently overall.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> almost the exact contrary of what usually happens to me when I travel in
> France, where I try to use all the languages in my grasp before, out of
> desperation, going to my poor, wretched French.
It depends a lot on how well you speak French. If you are reasonably
fluent, the French will generally speak to you in French, rather than
reveal their inferior English. If your French is very poor, they will
speak in English, thus revealing their superior command of that
language. Of course, this also comes from a tendency to choose
whichever language both parties speak the most fluently overall.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
May 9th 2005, 6:09 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
On Mon, 09 May 2005 09:44:54 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... My experience is usually that, if I begin by speaking French
... (and I have no illusions about SOUNDING French), the shop
... assistant or whoever then continues the conversation in
... French. They will slow down, even rephrase, and try to
... ensure that I understand them, but unless I forlornly ask
... "parlez vous anglaise, s'il vous plait?" they keep on in
... French. (I suspect it's their way of having fun, and I do
... appreciate them allowing me to make the attempt, but there
... are times when it's very frustrating!)
Evelyn, I hope you really don't say "anglaise", but "anglais".
If you say "anglaise", may I ask if they ever offered you cream ? That's the kind of
stupid joke the french are likely to come up with to have fun at a foreigner's expense...
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... My experience is usually that, if I begin by speaking French
... (and I have no illusions about SOUNDING French), the shop
... assistant or whoever then continues the conversation in
... French. They will slow down, even rephrase, and try to
... ensure that I understand them, but unless I forlornly ask
... "parlez vous anglaise, s'il vous plait?" they keep on in
... French. (I suspect it's their way of having fun, and I do
... appreciate them allowing me to make the attempt, but there
... are times when it's very frustrating!)
Evelyn, I hope you really don't say "anglaise", but "anglais".
If you say "anglaise", may I ask if they ever offered you cream ? That's the kind of
stupid joke the french are likely to come up with to have fun at a foreigner's expense...
May 9th 2005, 6:45 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
Jordi wrote:
> Deep Foiled Malls ha escrito:
> >
> > Given the similarities between Italian and French, how far has
> Italian
> > gotten you in France? More to the point, would I be better off
> > pretending to speak Italian as a first language than English?
Probably not, in my experience the French are likely to know more
English than Italian, except maybe near the Italian border. However the
best tactic for anyone would be to acquire some basic conversational
French :-)
> >
> It won't take you very long, although you may find some word-by-word
> similarities you will probably go further with a limited French plus
> his/her limited (or not) English.
> In Spain or (less) Portugal, that would be a different matter. French
> is perhaps the most unique of romance languages.
> J.
Yes- French is very much the black sheep of the family, like English is
among the Germanic languages. Italian has far more in common with
Spanish than with French, despite the geographical distance. (Someone
mentioned Romanian, actually that's closer to Latin than French is, as
can be seen if you see it written).
Edmund
> Deep Foiled Malls ha escrito:
> >
> > Given the similarities between Italian and French, how far has
> Italian
> > gotten you in France? More to the point, would I be better off
> > pretending to speak Italian as a first language than English?
Probably not, in my experience the French are likely to know more
English than Italian, except maybe near the Italian border. However the
best tactic for anyone would be to acquire some basic conversational
French :-)
> >
> It won't take you very long, although you may find some word-by-word
> similarities you will probably go further with a limited French plus
> his/her limited (or not) English.
> In Spain or (less) Portugal, that would be a different matter. French
> is perhaps the most unique of romance languages.
> J.
Yes- French is very much the black sheep of the family, like English is
among the Germanic languages. Italian has far more in common with
Spanish than with French, despite the geographical distance. (Someone
mentioned Romanian, actually that's closer to Latin than French is, as
can be seen if you see it written).
Edmund
May 9th 2005, 7:01 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
Magda <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 09 May 2005 09:44:54 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
><[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
> ... My experience is usually that, if I begin by speaking French
> ... (and I have no illusions about SOUNDING French), the shop
> ... assistant or whoever then continues the conversation in
> ... French. They will slow down, even rephrase, and try to
> ... ensure that I understand them, but unless I forlornly ask
> ... "parlez vous anglaise, s'il vous plait?" they keep on in
> ... French. (I suspect it's their way of having fun, and I do
> ... appreciate them allowing me to make the attempt, but there
> ... are times when it's very frustrating!)
>Evelyn, I hope you really don't say "anglaise", but "anglais".
>If you say "anglaise", may I ask if they ever offered you cream ? That's the kind of
>stupid joke the french are likely to come up with to have fun at a foreigner's expense...
She may pronounce "anglaise" as a native French speaker might
pronounce "anglais".
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
>On Mon, 09 May 2005 09:44:54 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
><[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
> ... My experience is usually that, if I begin by speaking French
> ... (and I have no illusions about SOUNDING French), the shop
> ... assistant or whoever then continues the conversation in
> ... French. They will slow down, even rephrase, and try to
> ... ensure that I understand them, but unless I forlornly ask
> ... "parlez vous anglaise, s'il vous plait?" they keep on in
> ... French. (I suspect it's their way of having fun, and I do
> ... appreciate them allowing me to make the attempt, but there
> ... are times when it's very frustrating!)
>Evelyn, I hope you really don't say "anglaise", but "anglais".
>If you say "anglaise", may I ask if they ever offered you cream ? That's the kind of
>stupid joke the french are likely to come up with to have fun at a foreigner's expense...
She may pronounce "anglaise" as a native French speaker might
pronounce "anglais".
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
May 9th 2005, 7:18 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
quiqueg wrote:
> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> > Customer exits, screaming silently "HAVE A NICE DAY!"
> almost the exact contrary of what usually happens to me when I travel in
> France, where I try to use all the languages in my grasp before, out of
> desperation, going to my poor, wretched French.
> Usually it doesn't work in any other language than French.
> And it doesn't work very well with French, either. Had some very good
> conversation in FreSpanGermItanglish anyway.
I have found two different reeponses to my high school French and German. If
the person I am addressing speaks English, usually better than my French and
German, they usually reply in English. The other response is to have them
chatter way in French or German as if they think I will understand it.
The oddest conversation I have had was in a small town in Germany where I
explained that I had bought a pair of sandals there two years earlier but my
dog ate them so I need a new pair. We figured out the size and style OK,
but then she started talking about something I did not understand. She
turned to my wife and said something to her. My wife explained that she
wanted to punch an extra hole in the strap because the strap will stretch.
The clerk expressed her agreement. Then she said something else to my wife
and my wife translated to me and again the clerk expressed her agreement.
Oddly, my wife does not speak a word of German.
> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> > Customer exits, screaming silently "HAVE A NICE DAY!"
> almost the exact contrary of what usually happens to me when I travel in
> France, where I try to use all the languages in my grasp before, out of
> desperation, going to my poor, wretched French.
> Usually it doesn't work in any other language than French.
> And it doesn't work very well with French, either. Had some very good
> conversation in FreSpanGermItanglish anyway.
I have found two different reeponses to my high school French and German. If
the person I am addressing speaks English, usually better than my French and
German, they usually reply in English. The other response is to have them
chatter way in French or German as if they think I will understand it.
The oddest conversation I have had was in a small town in Germany where I
explained that I had bought a pair of sandals there two years earlier but my
dog ate them so I need a new pair. We figured out the size and style OK,
but then she started talking about something I did not understand. She
turned to my wife and said something to her. My wife explained that she
wanted to punch an extra hole in the strap because the strap will stretch.
The clerk expressed her agreement. Then she said something else to my wife
and my wife translated to me and again the clerk expressed her agreement.
Oddly, my wife does not speak a word of German.
May 9th 2005, 7:28 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
N'importe quoi
"Magda" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> On Mon, 09 May 2005 09:44:54 -0700, in rec.travel.europe,
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this
> :
> ... My experience is usually that, if I begin by speaking French
> ... (and I have no illusions about SOUNDING French), the shop
> ... assistant or whoever then continues the conversation in
> ... French. They will slow down, even rephrase, and try to
> ... ensure that I understand them, but unless I forlornly ask
> ... "parlez vous anglaise, s'il vous plait?" they keep on in
> ... French. (I suspect it's their way of having fun, and I do
> ... appreciate them allowing me to make the attempt, but there
> ... are times when it's very frustrating!)
> Evelyn, I hope you really don't say "anglaise", but "anglais".
> If you say "anglaise", may I ask if they ever offered you cream ? That's
> the kind of
> stupid joke the french are likely to come up with to have fun at a
> foreigner's expense...
>
"Magda" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> On Mon, 09 May 2005 09:44:54 -0700, in rec.travel.europe,
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this
> :
> ... My experience is usually that, if I begin by speaking French
> ... (and I have no illusions about SOUNDING French), the shop
> ... assistant or whoever then continues the conversation in
> ... French. They will slow down, even rephrase, and try to
> ... ensure that I understand them, but unless I forlornly ask
> ... "parlez vous anglaise, s'il vous plait?" they keep on in
> ... French. (I suspect it's their way of having fun, and I do
> ... appreciate them allowing me to make the attempt, but there
> ... are times when it's very frustrating!)
> Evelyn, I hope you really don't say "anglaise", but "anglais".
> If you say "anglaise", may I ask if they ever offered you cream ? That's
> the kind of
> stupid joke the french are likely to come up with to have fun at a
> foreigner's expense...
>
May 9th 2005, 8:07 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
Mark Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> I found when we were in Nice we would walk into a resaurant / shop /
> whatever. And say 'bonsoir' and invariably they would reply back 'good
> evening'.. which was rather irksome really, we wanted to try out our (very
> limited) French and appreciated the help but they wouldn't even let us try.
That's not uncommon in Nice. Frankly, the wait staff etc. probably find
it more efficient. I don't mean this in a rude way, but they have a job
to do and it isn't really to help someone with their French!
I notice it a lot less in Paris though.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
[]
> I found when we were in Nice we would walk into a resaurant / shop /
> whatever. And say 'bonsoir' and invariably they would reply back 'good
> evening'.. which was rather irksome really, we wanted to try out our (very
> limited) French and appreciated the help but they wouldn't even let us try.
That's not uncommon in Nice. Frankly, the wait staff etc. probably find
it more efficient. I don't mean this in a rude way, but they have a job
to do and it isn't really to help someone with their French!
I notice it a lot less in Paris though.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
May 9th 2005, 8:07 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> That's been more my experience in Bruxelles than in Paris!
> (And yes, I do make certain I am not addressing a
> Flemish-speaking Belgian before I try my French.)
How do you ascertain that?
I don't think it's such a big deal in Brussels (though I've heard it can
be in other cities), where most people in restaurants and shops are
likely to be bilingual. The first time I visited the city, I was 15, and
spent a few weeks trying out my high school french. I never encountered
any attitude there.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
[]
> That's been more my experience in Bruxelles than in Paris!
> (And yes, I do make certain I am not addressing a
> Flemish-speaking Belgian before I try my French.)
How do you ascertain that?
I don't think it's such a big deal in Brussels (though I've heard it can
be in other cities), where most people in restaurants and shops are
likely to be bilingual. The first time I visited the city, I was 15, and
spent a few weeks trying out my high school french. I never encountered
any attitude there.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
May 9th 2005, 10:14 am
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Scene: a café/tabac in a village near Roscoff, Brittany.
> Cast: Sales Assistant, Customer.
> Customer enters.
> SA: Bonjour.
> C: Bonjour, vous avez du tabac de pipe?
> SA: Yes (indicating shelf). What brand you want?
> C: L'Amsterdammer bleu, SVP. Je voudrais cinq paquets.
> SA: Okay. (places five packets in bag, operates till -- 6,30? x5 =
> 31,50?, points to digital display). You see the price?
> C: Oui (counts out money): vingt euro, trente, trente-et-un, et
> cinquante centimes. (Picks up bag) Merci bien. Au revoir.
> SA: Thank you. Goodbye. Have a nice day.
> Customer exits, screaming silently "HAVE A NICE DAY!"
I've had this experience, too. I've always taken it as a courtesy. My
accent isn't too bad for an American, but my grammar and vocabularly aren't
strong enough for me to be comfortable in a protracted conversation. Every
so often, though, I'll hit someone who responds to me in rapid-fire Parisian
French, forcing me to say, "Un petit plus lentement, s'il vous plait."
Usually they'll switch to English at that point. ;)
> --
> PB
> The return address has been MUNGED
news:[email protected]...
> Scene: a café/tabac in a village near Roscoff, Brittany.
> Cast: Sales Assistant, Customer.
> Customer enters.
> SA: Bonjour.
> C: Bonjour, vous avez du tabac de pipe?
> SA: Yes (indicating shelf). What brand you want?
> C: L'Amsterdammer bleu, SVP. Je voudrais cinq paquets.
> SA: Okay. (places five packets in bag, operates till -- 6,30? x5 =
> 31,50?, points to digital display). You see the price?
> C: Oui (counts out money): vingt euro, trente, trente-et-un, et
> cinquante centimes. (Picks up bag) Merci bien. Au revoir.
> SA: Thank you. Goodbye. Have a nice day.
> Customer exits, screaming silently "HAVE A NICE DAY!"
I've had this experience, too. I've always taken it as a courtesy. My
accent isn't too bad for an American, but my grammar and vocabularly aren't
strong enough for me to be comfortable in a protracted conversation. Every
so often, though, I'll hit someone who responds to me in rapid-fire Parisian
French, forcing me to say, "Un petit plus lentement, s'il vous plait."
Usually they'll switch to English at that point. ;)
> --
> PB
> The return address has been MUNGED
May 9th 2005, 10:20 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
>
> That's been more my experience in Bruxelles than in Paris!
> (And yes, I do make certain I am not addressing a
> Flemish-speaking Belgian before I try my French.)
>
In Bruxelles it is hard to find a Flemish speaker! I recall watching a
Dutch woman trying to find someone who spoke Dutch. she had switched to
asking in English. Does any one Speak Dutch? and was getting pretty
frustrated.
--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/
news:[email protected]:
>
>
> That's been more my experience in Bruxelles than in Paris!
> (And yes, I do make certain I am not addressing a
> Flemish-speaking Belgian before I try my French.)
>
In Bruxelles it is hard to find a Flemish speaker! I recall watching a
Dutch woman trying to find someone who spoke Dutch. she had switched to
asking in English. Does any one Speak Dutch? and was getting pretty
frustrated.
--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/
May 9th 2005, 10:49 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> What I have seen on more than one occasion is tourists starting a
> transaction in English without asking if the server or shop assistant
> or whoever can speak it. That sometimes produces a negative reaction
> -- to my mind, with some justification, because it is arrogant
> behaviour.
I don't think it's so much arrogance as ignorance. I think many in the
US just assume that all Europeans are able to speak English. (So it
should actually be taken as a compliment, right?) :)
Many Americans just don't realize that it's just common courtesy to at
least try to speak the native language. Please forgive us! :)
> What I have seen on more than one occasion is tourists starting a
> transaction in English without asking if the server or shop assistant
> or whoever can speak it. That sometimes produces a negative reaction
> -- to my mind, with some justification, because it is arrogant
> behaviour.
I don't think it's so much arrogance as ignorance. I think many in the
US just assume that all Europeans are able to speak English. (So it
should actually be taken as a compliment, right?) :)
Many Americans just don't realize that it's just common courtesy to at
least try to speak the native language. Please forgive us! :)
May 9th 2005, 11:06 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
jcoulter wrote:
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> >
> >
> > That's been more my experience in Bruxelles than in Paris!
> > (And yes, I do make certain I am not addressing a
> > Flemish-speaking Belgian before I try my French.)
> >
> In Bruxelles it is hard to find a Flemish speaker! I recall watching
a
> Dutch woman trying to find someone who spoke Dutch. she had switched
to
> asking in English. Does any one Speak Dutch? and was getting pretty
> frustrated.
Brussels unlike the rest of Belgium is officially bilingual- all
officials are IIRC required to take a proficiency test in both
languages. Similarly, they both appear on signs, menus etc. It's true
that most Bruxellois have French as their first language, but I'd be
very, very surprised if it was difficult to find a Flemish speaker
there (although it's true that it would be in much of Wallonia).
Edmund
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> >
> >
> > That's been more my experience in Bruxelles than in Paris!
> > (And yes, I do make certain I am not addressing a
> > Flemish-speaking Belgian before I try my French.)
> >
> In Bruxelles it is hard to find a Flemish speaker! I recall watching
a
> Dutch woman trying to find someone who spoke Dutch. she had switched
to
> asking in English. Does any one Speak Dutch? and was getting pretty
> frustrated.
Brussels unlike the rest of Belgium is officially bilingual- all
officials are IIRC required to take a proficiency test in both
languages. Similarly, they both appear on signs, menus etc. It's true
that most Bruxellois have French as their first language, but I'd be
very, very surprised if it was difficult to find a Flemish speaker
there (although it's true that it would be in much of Wallonia).
Edmund
May 9th 2005, 11:24 am
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
"Edmund Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1115679979.064230.297650
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> jcoulter wrote:
>> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>
> Brussels unlike the rest of Belgium is officially bilingual- all
> officials are IIRC required to take a proficiency test in both
> languages. Similarly, they both appear on signs, menus etc. It's true
> that most Bruxellois have French as their first language, but I'd be
> very, very surprised if it was difficult to find a Flemish speaker
> there (although it's true that it would be in much of Wallonia).
>
> Edmund
>
The woman in question was near the grand place, and I am sure was running
into more than her share of tourists.
--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> jcoulter wrote:
>> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>
> Brussels unlike the rest of Belgium is officially bilingual- all
> officials are IIRC required to take a proficiency test in both
> languages. Similarly, they both appear on signs, menus etc. It's true
> that most Bruxellois have French as their first language, but I'd be
> very, very surprised if it was difficult to find a Flemish speaker
> there (although it's true that it would be in much of Wallonia).
>
> Edmund
>
The woman in question was near the grand place, and I am sure was running
into more than her share of tourists.
--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/
May 9th 2005, 11:43 am
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French Conversation
jcoulter wrote:
> "Edmund Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:1115679979.064230.297650
> @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > jcoulter wrote:
> >> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Brussels unlike the rest of Belgium is officially bilingual- all
> > officials are IIRC required to take a proficiency test in both
> > languages. Similarly, they both appear on signs, menus etc. It's
true
> > that most Bruxellois have French as their first language, but I'd
be
> > very, very surprised if it was difficult to find a Flemish speaker
> > there (although it's true that it would be in much of Wallonia).
> >
> > Edmund
> >
> The woman in question was near the grand place, and I am sure was
running
> into more than her share of tourists.
>
She almost certainly would have been. :-)
Edmund
> "Edmund Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:1115679979.064230.297650
> @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > jcoulter wrote:
> >> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Brussels unlike the rest of Belgium is officially bilingual- all
> > officials are IIRC required to take a proficiency test in both
> > languages. Similarly, they both appear on signs, menus etc. It's
true
> > that most Bruxellois have French as their first language, but I'd
be
> > very, very surprised if it was difficult to find a Flemish speaker
> > there (although it's true that it would be in much of Wallonia).
> >
> > Edmund
> >
> The woman in question was near the grand place, and I am sure was
running
> into more than her share of tourists.
>
She almost certainly would have been. :-)
Edmund
