Europe's strange fascination with the US
Aug 8th 2003, 5:27 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Europe's strange fascination with the US
Having moved to the UK (London) this year, I'm puzzled by Europe's odd kind
of love/hate fascination with all things American. People are constantly
obsessing over weird things in the States (stuff that would be considered
equally weird within the US, but people say "only in America"), or "in the
US this...in the US that..." like the fat thread next to this one.
Why is this? People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here. I find this very
strange. also the fascination with American celebrities. It's just plain
weird and I'm puzzled by it.
of love/hate fascination with all things American. People are constantly
obsessing over weird things in the States (stuff that would be considered
equally weird within the US, but people say "only in America"), or "in the
US this...in the US that..." like the fat thread next to this one.
Why is this? People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here. I find this very
strange. also the fascination with American celebrities. It's just plain
weird and I'm puzzled by it.
Aug 8th 2003, 5:55 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
"john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Having moved to the UK (London) this year, I'm puzzled by Europe's odd
kind
> of love/hate fascination with all things American. People are constantly
> obsessing over weird things in the States (stuff that would be considered
> equally weird within the US, but people say "only in America"), or "in the
> US this...in the US that..." like the fat thread next to this one.
> Why is this? People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
> happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here. I find this very
> strange. also the fascination with American celebrities. It's just plain
> weird and I'm puzzled by it.
Couple of things. The US is much more insular than Europe, for a number of
reasons. People in the US, eventhough a lot of them can trace their
ancestry to Europe, are not concerned with European or world affairs.
Second, because of WWII, the US is much more involved in Europe than Europe
is in the US. Third, because of US dominance in the entertainment business,
the world is facinated by US celebrities, with the exception of soccer
stars.
news:[email protected]...
> Having moved to the UK (London) this year, I'm puzzled by Europe's odd
kind
> of love/hate fascination with all things American. People are constantly
> obsessing over weird things in the States (stuff that would be considered
> equally weird within the US, but people say "only in America"), or "in the
> US this...in the US that..." like the fat thread next to this one.
> Why is this? People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
> happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here. I find this very
> strange. also the fascination with American celebrities. It's just plain
> weird and I'm puzzled by it.
Couple of things. The US is much more insular than Europe, for a number of
reasons. People in the US, eventhough a lot of them can trace their
ancestry to Europe, are not concerned with European or world affairs.
Second, because of WWII, the US is much more involved in Europe than Europe
is in the US. Third, because of US dominance in the entertainment business,
the world is facinated by US celebrities, with the exception of soccer
stars.
Aug 8th 2003, 5:58 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
"john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Having moved to the UK (London) this year, I'm puzzled by Europe's odd
kind
> of love/hate fascination with all things American. People are constantly
> obsessing over weird things in the States (stuff that would be considered
> equally weird within the US, but people say "only in America"), or "in the
> US this...in the US that..." like the fat thread next to this one.
> Why is this? People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
> happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here. I find this very
> strange. also the fascination with American celebrities. It's just plain
> weird and I'm puzzled by it.
Hollywood created America for us and our media is still feeding the
fascination . Americans in the main are to insular be interested in what is
happening elsewhere. I am invariably asked stupid questions about the UK by
people I meet on my American travels. The favourite is their English
relative, we all get asked if we know John Doe who lives in Leicester as
they know that Britain is a very small country and we must all know each
other. I often get asked about things that they have read about us in
Ripley's 'Believe it Not' and have taken as gospel. I know at the moment the
US press is covering the story about the naked British walker trying to walk
from Lands End to John o' Groats, if only the police would let him.
Derek.
news:[email protected]...
> Having moved to the UK (London) this year, I'm puzzled by Europe's odd
kind
> of love/hate fascination with all things American. People are constantly
> obsessing over weird things in the States (stuff that would be considered
> equally weird within the US, but people say "only in America"), or "in the
> US this...in the US that..." like the fat thread next to this one.
> Why is this? People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
> happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here. I find this very
> strange. also the fascination with American celebrities. It's just plain
> weird and I'm puzzled by it.
Hollywood created America for us and our media is still feeding the
fascination . Americans in the main are to insular be interested in what is
happening elsewhere. I am invariably asked stupid questions about the UK by
people I meet on my American travels. The favourite is their English
relative, we all get asked if we know John Doe who lives in Leicester as
they know that Britain is a very small country and we must all know each
other. I often get asked about things that they have read about us in
Ripley's 'Believe it Not' and have taken as gospel. I know at the moment the
US press is covering the story about the naked British walker trying to walk
from Lands End to John o' Groats, if only the police would let him.
Derek.
Aug 8th 2003, 6:11 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
"john" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> People are
> constantly obsessing over weird things in the States (stuff that would
> be considered equally weird within the US, but people say "only in
> America"), or "in the US this...in the US that..." like the fat thread
> next to this one.
Only some people.
> Why is this?
The United States have been an important ally and an important cultural
influence for western Europe in the past 50 years. The latter also for the
east. Many therefore consider her a role model (in the good or bad sense:
as something to thrive for a bad example, depending). Of course this
perception is partly a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
> happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here.
Maybe they should?
Europe has many things to offer, including in the
fields that Europeans seek in America: Movies, music, television ..
> I find this
> very strange. also the fascination with American celebrities. It's
> just plain weird and I'm puzzled by it.
But it's certainly reduced as compared to inside the US. When I'm watching
say CNN, I never know who these celebrities are they are talking bout. I
tend to know only European ones, but I'm not really interested in what they
do either.
Regards
--
Ukoncete vystup a nastup, dvere se zaviraji
http://www.wschwanke.de/
news:[email protected]:
> People are
> constantly obsessing over weird things in the States (stuff that would
> be considered equally weird within the US, but people say "only in
> America"), or "in the US this...in the US that..." like the fat thread
> next to this one.
Only some people.
> Why is this?
The United States have been an important ally and an important cultural
influence for western Europe in the past 50 years. The latter also for the
east. Many therefore consider her a role model (in the good or bad sense:
as something to thrive for a bad example, depending). Of course this
perception is partly a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
> happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here.
Maybe they should?
Europe has many things to offer, including in the fields that Europeans seek in America: Movies, music, television ..
> I find this
> very strange. also the fascination with American celebrities. It's
> just plain weird and I'm puzzled by it.
But it's certainly reduced as compared to inside the US. When I'm watching
say CNN, I never know who these celebrities are they are talking bout. I
tend to know only European ones, but I'm not really interested in what they
do either
.Regards
--
Ukoncete vystup a nastup, dvere se zaviraji
http://www.wschwanke.de/
Aug 8th 2003, 6:48 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
Maybe we should,there is a lot more to the world than McDonalds and
the "Mickey Mouse" industry.
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:11:59 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke
<[email protected]> wrote:
> People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
>> happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here.
the "Mickey Mouse" industry.
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:11:59 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke
<[email protected]> wrote:
> People in the US don't sit around going on about what's
>> happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here.
Aug 8th 2003, 6:54 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
As others have remarked, the US is very insular, so it's no wonder
that little attention is paid to Europe. The thinking in the US was
that Europe was the first line of defense against the USSR, but the
USSR is not a threat now.
As to the cultural imperialism. The culture and general menatlity of
the US is that of a child, more or less an adolesent. There's a reason
for that as far as the entertainment industry goes--many years ago,
studies were done indicating that companies should try to get
adolescents as customers because, being impressionable, they'll be
customers for life. So gradually--and the process is very nearly
complete now--the US entertainment industry, including movies, tv,
magazines, books, and so on, became targeted almost exclusively to
16-24 year olds, which is the demographic that all advertisers
(mistakenly) want to hit. The resulting splashy violent-and-sexy
pabulum you see does appeal in a sort of fascination-type way, and
it's also sought after now by advertisers in other countries. For a
long time, US entertainment held sway around the world, but that is
definitely slipping now.
Which is great! Maybe they'll print magazines and produce a few movies
for adults now!! Last popular US movie for an adult audience was "A
Beautiful Mind", which was, what, 2 years ago? And no "Seabiscuit",
which is quite good but certainly not great. However, the movie
industry wants to target the 16-24 types on the belief that they
apprently are more likely to see movies multiple times.
So it's all advertising based. Think of that next time you hook into
popular culture--no matter what you're watching, it's really an ad.
that little attention is paid to Europe. The thinking in the US was
that Europe was the first line of defense against the USSR, but the
USSR is not a threat now.
As to the cultural imperialism. The culture and general menatlity of
the US is that of a child, more or less an adolesent. There's a reason
for that as far as the entertainment industry goes--many years ago,
studies were done indicating that companies should try to get
adolescents as customers because, being impressionable, they'll be
customers for life. So gradually--and the process is very nearly
complete now--the US entertainment industry, including movies, tv,
magazines, books, and so on, became targeted almost exclusively to
16-24 year olds, which is the demographic that all advertisers
(mistakenly) want to hit. The resulting splashy violent-and-sexy
pabulum you see does appeal in a sort of fascination-type way, and
it's also sought after now by advertisers in other countries. For a
long time, US entertainment held sway around the world, but that is
definitely slipping now.
Which is great! Maybe they'll print magazines and produce a few movies
for adults now!! Last popular US movie for an adult audience was "A
Beautiful Mind", which was, what, 2 years ago? And no "Seabiscuit",
which is quite good but certainly not great. However, the movie
industry wants to target the 16-24 types on the belief that they
apprently are more likely to see movies multiple times.
So it's all advertising based. Think of that next time you hook into
popular culture--no matter what you're watching, it's really an ad.
Aug 8th 2003, 7:31 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
> Why is this? People in the US don't sit around going on about
> what's happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here.
That is true for the same reason that Americans generally speak
only English. In Europe, if you travel a few hundred miles, you
enter another country. In the USA, you can travel for 1000+
miles and still be in the same country. Americans don't have to
speak another language or visit another country to see radically
different sights, while Europeans have no choice. I suspect
Europe has the same fascination with the USA as it does with
many other countries, like Russia. Also remember that the UK
and the USA will have more commonality simply because of the
parent-child relationship.
> I find this very strange. also the fascination with American
> celebrities. It's just plain weird and I'm puzzled by it.
You've obviously never lived in Southern California. I lived
there about 20 years ago. The obsession with Holly-weird (as
many local stations called it) is amazing. When Mr. Ed (star of
the old TV show featuring Mr. Ed as a talking horse) died, the
news about his funeral was all over the media. I rather doubt if
it was big news in Omaha.
Casey
> what's happening in Europe, at least not to the extent of here.
That is true for the same reason that Americans generally speak
only English. In Europe, if you travel a few hundred miles, you
enter another country. In the USA, you can travel for 1000+
miles and still be in the same country. Americans don't have to
speak another language or visit another country to see radically
different sights, while Europeans have no choice. I suspect
Europe has the same fascination with the USA as it does with
many other countries, like Russia. Also remember that the UK
and the USA will have more commonality simply because of the
parent-child relationship.
> I find this very strange. also the fascination with American
> celebrities. It's just plain weird and I'm puzzled by it.
You've obviously never lived in Southern California. I lived
there about 20 years ago. The obsession with Holly-weird (as
many local stations called it) is amazing. When Mr. Ed (star of
the old TV show featuring Mr. Ed as a talking horse) died, the
news about his funeral was all over the media. I rather doubt if
it was big news in Omaha.
Casey
Aug 8th 2003, 7:41 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
Casey,
I'm still in Southern CA,and I agree..
Richard
On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:31:24 GMT, "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You've obviously never lived in Southern California. I lived
>there about 20 years ago. The obsession with Holly-weird (as
>many local stations called it) is amazing. When Mr. Ed (star of
>the old TV show featuring Mr. Ed as a talking horse) died, the
>news about his funeral was all over the media. I rather doubt if
>it was big news in Omaha.
I'm still in Southern CA,and I agree..
Richard
On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:31:24 GMT, "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You've obviously never lived in Southern California. I lived
>there about 20 years ago. The obsession with Holly-weird (as
>many local stations called it) is amazing. When Mr. Ed (star of
>the old TV show featuring Mr. Ed as a talking horse) died, the
>news about his funeral was all over the media. I rather doubt if
>it was big news in Omaha.
Aug 8th 2003, 7:46 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
that's still the same country though. That I can understand.
"Richard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Casey,
> I'm still in Southern CA,and I agree..
> Richard
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:31:24 GMT, "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >You've obviously never lived in Southern California. I lived
> >there about 20 years ago. The obsession with Holly-weird (as
> >many local stations called it) is amazing. When Mr. Ed (star of
> >the old TV show featuring Mr. Ed as a talking horse) died, the
> >news about his funeral was all over the media. I rather doubt if
> >it was big news in Omaha.
> >
"Richard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Casey,
> I'm still in Southern CA,and I agree..
> Richard
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:31:24 GMT, "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >You've obviously never lived in Southern California. I lived
> >there about 20 years ago. The obsession with Holly-weird (as
> >many local stations called it) is amazing. When Mr. Ed (star of
> >the old TV show featuring Mr. Ed as a talking horse) died, the
> >news about his funeral was all over the media. I rather doubt if
> >it was big news in Omaha.
> >
Aug 8th 2003, 8:01 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
>The United States have been an important ally and an important cultural
>influence for western Europe in the past 50 years.
This is a pretty euphemistic way paraphrase the fact of an occupation.
Jens
>The United States have been an important ally and an important cultural
>influence for western Europe in the past 50 years.
This is a pretty euphemistic way paraphrase the fact of an occupation.
Jens
Aug 8th 2003, 8:07 am
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
Le Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:11:59 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]> a écrit :
{ snip }
> The United States have been an important ally and an important cultural
^^^^^^^^
Erm ...
--
Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
{ snip }
> The United States have been an important ally and an important cultural
^^^^^^^^
Erm ...
--
Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
Aug 8th 2003, 8:13 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
Jens Arne Maennig <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
>
>>The United States have been an important ally and an important cultural
>>influence for western Europe in the past 50 years.
>
> This is a pretty euphemistic way paraphrase the fact of an occupation.
Only in Germany, and then we've been occupied by the French, Brits and
Russians too. Occupation and common interests went hand in hand though (Ich
bin ein Berliner). For most other countries the function as an ally was
probably more predominant. They could've thrown US forces out if they
wanted, and some did.
Regards
--
Ukoncete vystup a nastup, dvere se zaviraji
http://www.wschwanke.de/
news:[email protected]:
> Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
>
>>The United States have been an important ally and an important cultural
>>influence for western Europe in the past 50 years.
>
> This is a pretty euphemistic way paraphrase the fact of an occupation.
Only in Germany, and then we've been occupied by the French, Brits and
Russians too. Occupation and common interests went hand in hand though (Ich
bin ein Berliner). For most other countries the function as an ally was
probably more predominant. They could've thrown US forces out if they
wanted, and some did.
Regards
--
Ukoncete vystup a nastup, dvere se zaviraji
http://www.wschwanke.de/
Aug 8th 2003, 9:26 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
> But it's certainly reduced as compared to inside the US. When I'm watching
> say CNN, I never know who these celebrities are they are talking bout. I
> tend to know only European ones, but I'm not really interested in what
they
> do either.
I'm with you -- I don't care about modern pop culture. Basically, it boils
down to what one is interested in. I've always been interested in the
"outside" world, always had penfriends all over the world when I was a kid
growing up in the middle of a cornfield in Illinois, read the _New York
Times_ from about the time I was 15, etc.
[I was generally pretty bored as a kid by the usual stuff around me like
sports, farming, etc.. I was a bookworm from a very early age...]
Btw my first fascination with the "outside" world was with the city of
Berlin - it struck me as an amazing place, especially during the Cold War
years. I had a penfriend there starting in 1965 (on Tellestrasse in
Neukolln) and I am still friends with the guy and his family today (and
we've visited each other).
In the 4th grade I managed to find a copy of a Soviet - published magazine
called _USSR Today_ (this later became _Soviet Life_, these mags were
published here in the States as part of a cultural agreement with the USSR,
we published one in the Soviet Union called "Amerika"....). It had a big
picture of a silver bas - relief Lenin on the front, and it was one of my
prized "treasures"...even gave a little "talk" about it in front of my
little classmates, lol ;---)
--
Best
Greg
> But it's certainly reduced as compared to inside the US. When I'm watching
> say CNN, I never know who these celebrities are they are talking bout. I
> tend to know only European ones, but I'm not really interested in what
they
> do either
.I'm with you -- I don't care about modern pop culture. Basically, it boils
down to what one is interested in. I've always been interested in the
"outside" world, always had penfriends all over the world when I was a kid
growing up in the middle of a cornfield in Illinois, read the _New York
Times_ from about the time I was 15, etc.
[I was generally pretty bored as a kid by the usual stuff around me like
sports, farming, etc.. I was a bookworm from a very early age...]
Btw my first fascination with the "outside" world was with the city of
Berlin - it struck me as an amazing place, especially during the Cold War
years. I had a penfriend there starting in 1965 (on Tellestrasse in
Neukolln) and I am still friends with the guy and his family today (and
we've visited each other).
In the 4th grade I managed to find a copy of a Soviet - published magazine
called _USSR Today_ (this later became _Soviet Life_, these mags were
published here in the States as part of a cultural agreement with the USSR,
we published one in the Soviet Union called "Amerika"....). It had a big
picture of a silver bas - relief Lenin on the front, and it was one of my
prized "treasures"...even gave a little "talk" about it in front of my
little classmates, lol ;---)
--
Best
Greg
Aug 8th 2003, 9:34 am
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
grey wrote:
> As others have remarked, the US is very insular,
Certain groups or *segments* of the US are very insular. All of my friends
and many of my family are well - travelled, enjoy the fruits of other
cultures (cuisine, etc.), speak foreign languages, are well - informed about
events abroad, and are in daily contact with people from all around the
world (the couple in the flat next to me are Italian, transferred here for
jobs; on the other sideof me are some Chinese grad students...my building
janitor and his family are from Albania, etc.....AND I've got USENET! ;-).
'Course this in central Chicago. Things get considerably less cosmopolitan
in say, rural Texas or Idaho (or even in suburban Chicago..).
--
Best
Greg
> As others have remarked, the US is very insular,
Certain groups or *segments* of the US are very insular. All of my friends
and many of my family are well - travelled, enjoy the fruits of other
cultures (cuisine, etc.), speak foreign languages, are well - informed about
events abroad, and are in daily contact with people from all around the
world (the couple in the flat next to me are Italian, transferred here for
jobs; on the other sideof me are some Chinese grad students...my building
janitor and his family are from Albania, etc.....AND I've got USENET! ;-).
'Course this in central Chicago. Things get considerably less cosmopolitan
in say, rural Texas or Idaho (or even in suburban Chicago..).
--
Best
Greg
Aug 8th 2003, 9:48 am
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Europe's strange fascination with the US
grey wrote:
> So it's all advertising based. Think of that next time you hook into
> popular culture--no matter what you're watching, it's really an ad.
Which has changed even in my lifetime (I'm only 49 ;-)....
Years ago even television stove for some semblance of quality (CBS was the
"Tiffany" network), as did music (the pre - rock era), movies, etc. There
was always a lowest - common - denominator culture here of a sort, but it
often was not *prevalent*. Now it is.
Now celebrities are celebrities simply because they are *famous* (for being
*celebrities*....), not for any particular talents they have. Years ago,
pretty much only Zsa Zsa Gabor or Lana Turner operated on that basis. Now
we've got a *whole* popular culture on that level (and it's even infested
classical music, what with an emphasis on the *appearance* of a performer
rather on their *talent*....).
And Lana and Zsa Zsa were a *whole* lot more fascinating in sum than Ben
and Jo - Lo ;-----)
--
Best
Greg
> So it's all advertising based. Think of that next time you hook into
> popular culture--no matter what you're watching, it's really an ad.
Which has changed even in my lifetime (I'm only 49 ;-)....
Years ago even television stove for some semblance of quality (CBS was the
"Tiffany" network), as did music (the pre - rock era), movies, etc. There
was always a lowest - common - denominator culture here of a sort, but it
often was not *prevalent*. Now it is.
Now celebrities are celebrities simply because they are *famous* (for being
*celebrities*....), not for any particular talents they have. Years ago,
pretty much only Zsa Zsa Gabor or Lana Turner operated on that basis. Now
we've got a *whole* popular culture on that level (and it's even infested
classical music, what with an emphasis on the *appearance* of a performer
rather on their *talent*....).
And Lana and Zsa Zsa were a *whole* lot more fascinating in sum than Ben
and Jo - Lo ;-----)
--
Best
Greg
