Erilar

In article <[email protected]>, "tim \(in Sweden\)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > But as (I think) you have posted previously, the lack of indication
    > on the seats that are reserved now makes this option a big risk.

Yes, it is a big fat nuisance having to get up and try to find another
place to sit every time the train stops and someone WITH a seat
reservation gets on and ousts you.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar), biblioholic medievalist

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Erilar

In article <[email protected]>, B
Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:

    > This is where a ticket agent can be helpful. Usually they can tell you
    > whether the train is heavily reserved or not. Also, as I've recently
    > learned, they usually (maybe always?) put all the reserved seats
    > together in a block so that some cars will be all reserved and other
    > cars nonreserved.
I've only noticed that in the case of a group traveling together,
and even that varies from country to country. When traveling with a
group in France(never again), our seats were NOT all together.


    >When it's close to departure time, they will know
    > how many unreserved cars there are, and which ones they are.

If you're talking to a ticket agent, why on earth not simply reserve a
seat?

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar), biblioholic medievalist

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Dave Smith

Timothy Kroesen wrote:

    > A short Eurail pass can be a great value if used wisely in relatively
    > rail expensive countries like Germany and France. I went Braunschweig,
    > Berlin (NZ), Koln, Bophall, free KD Ferry to Rudesheim, Interlaken, on
    > one Eurail day; starting just after 7pm and arriving 11:40pm the
    > following. Not as brutal as you think; 3hrs to bus about Berlin Zoo
    > station, night train to Bophall for 8am ferry, 4.5hr ferry trip and
    > until about 7 to catch the train to Interlocken... 25% discount on
    > Jungfrau private rails the next day.
    > Alternately you might consider country discount % passes for possible
    > value like the BahnCard in Germany and another I don't remember the name
    > of in France. Consider Sparpreis fares in Germany if you can plan ahead
    > 3 days and travel over a weekend; they seem cheap enough even if you
    > throw away the return leg vs. std one way pricing...

About a dozen years ago I travelled on a Eurail pass. Our son was 15 and we
had a 15 day pass that we made good use of. We started off in Paris and went
to Strasbourg on our first day, then hopped over to Germany, basing
ourselves at a friend's flat and making day trips, then down to Switzerland
for a few days, over to Venice, back across Italy to Nice, spent two days
and then back to Paris on the last day of the pass. We would have had more
use of it but stayed three extra days in Switzerland when relatives there
insisted that we stay longer. We had only panned a quick visit with them.
Not that we didn't have a good time with them, just that we could have had
several more days of train travel.

Considering the amount of travel we got out of that pass, I certainly have
no complaints. Having the pass meant that we could go just about anywhere
we wanted to. We didn't have to weigh the cost of train fare on any of our
excursions. It was already covered. The European trains were so much nice
than our trains, and the system so much more passenger friendly, it was a
pleasure to sit back and watch the scenery.

Lennart Petersen

"erilar" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <M4%[email protected]>, "Lennart Petersen"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Hmm.....being outside the main routes and find out places and rail lines
    >> you
    >> didn't know exist is very much the fun of being on Interrail or Eurail.
    >> And old fashion coaches means you can open a window and take pictures,
    >> such
    >> local trains are generally less crowded and you have much more space.
    > Which can be definite advantages 8-) I've always used GermanRail
    > Flexi-passe in Germany and the newest trains were, in my opinion, less
    > fun even if faster. They're too much like airplanes--almost everyone
    > facing the same direction ignoring each other 8-( I like to start
    > conversations with total strangers 8-)
-------------------
True. It's much more likely that a spontaneous conversation will start in a
traditional compartment or in the face to face seating. Unusual in
planes or airports where most people seem to prefer to ignore each other.

Lennart Petersen

"erilar" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "tim \(in Sweden\)"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> But as (I think) you have posted previously, the lack of indication
    >> on the seats that are reserved now makes this option a big risk.
    > Yes, it is a big fat nuisance having to get up and try to find another
    > place to sit every time the train stops and someone WITH a seat
    > reservation gets on and ousts you.
It's annoying, true but the advantage is that you can make a reservation
until the last minute.
In the old fashion style it was usually necessary to make a reservation at
least the day before.
However there're system with displays indicating a reservation. German
railways and Danish railways have such systems.

Hatunen

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:33:16 +0000, Phil Richards
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hatunen wrote:
    >> On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:15:44 +0000, Phil Richards
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>Presumably "they" refer to the agents in places like the US who sell Eurail
    >>>passes? Do really expect them to loose business and say "Hey, don't bother
    >>>buying a pass from us, buy separate tickets when you get to Europe?"
    >>
    >> I'm not that naive. But their quoted point to point fares do seem
    >> a bit disengenuous.
    >We've been through this before. These inflated point to point fares are set
    >as part of the Eurail tariff which is handled by a consortium of European
    >railways and not agents or distributors outside of Europe.

So a consortium of European railways sets fares that gouge
Americans. This is news?

I just checked the cost of a Thalys fare from Paris to Cologne
Hbf. Thalys and SNCF ask EUR 81 if you are on the continent (and
if you know what you are doing you can probably get this fare
over the web, as well).

But Raileurope.com asks $109 = EUR 92.4 plus a shipping and
handling fee of $15.00. One is free, of course, to draw one's own
conclusions.

    >>>Well in any case, 18 years of experience at selling International Rail
    >>>travel in London leads me to suggest different. Offer many non-Europeans
    >>>the options of buying point to points vs. a Eurail pass and often (but not
    >>>always) they prefer to stick to the pass to give them the flexibility.
    >>
    >> Certainly so long as you misleading overprice the point to point
    >> tickets you sell. They should at least be given the opportunity
    >> to make a true comparison and then decided.
    >The customer has the option to check their prices with whatever source they
    >want. It's not impossible, just a tad more difficult to plough through
    >sites like SNCF etc. to gather all the details when actually it's far more
    >simpler to use the likes of Rail Europe to gather the information.

That's pretty much what I said. But as mumerous questions to
rec.travel.europe indicate, this is a bit daunting, especially
sine Americans are babes in the woods when it comes to train
travel.

    >And
    >thanks to the printed guidebooks and things like search engines making very
    >clear pointers to the likes of RE in the US as "the" place to go for
    >European Rail travel.

Ah, yes. You can find out anything as long as you know where to
look.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:06:45 -0600, erilar
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, "tim \(in Sweden\)"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> But as (I think) you have posted previously, the lack of indication
    >> on the seats that are reserved now makes this option a big risk.
    >Yes, it is a big fat nuisance having to get up and try to find another
    >place to sit every time the train stops and someone WITH a seat
    >reservation gets on and ousts you.

Or the converse. When we got aboard the Nord Express at Brussels
Midi we found the train full, including standees. The train
originated at Ostend and served as a local train across Belgium.
When we got to the compartment with our reserved seats we found
our seats already occupied. They refused to bduge, and I had to
find the conductor to oust them.

By the time we got to Liege the train was almost deserted.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:02:31 -0600, erilar
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> If one wants to pay extra for the convenience that is one's
    >> privelege, but be aware that a flexipass isn't all that
    >> convenient.
    >The trick is to use the flexipass only for long stretches and buy
    >point-to-point tickets for short ones.

That's pretty much what I said, but also pointed out that you may
not want to take that many long trips. But only the individual
traveler can work out what's best for him or her.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

B Vaughan

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:38:15 -0500, Dave Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >About a dozen years ago I travelled on a Eurail pass. Our son was 15 and we
    >had a 15 day pass that we made good use of. We started off in Paris and went
    >to Strasbourg on our first day, then hopped over to Germany, basing
    >ourselves at a friend's flat and making day trips, then down to Switzerland
    >for a few days, over to Venice, back across Italy to Nice, spent two days
    >and then back to Paris on the last day of the pass. We would have had more
    >use of it but stayed three extra days in Switzerland when relatives there
    >insisted that we stay longer. We had only panned a quick visit with them.
    >Not that we didn't have a good time with them, just that we could have had
    >several more days of train travel.

This may be a good example of a pass purchase that wasn't worth the
expenditure. These are all fairly short trips. I don't know how much
train fares and Eurail pass prices have changed in 12 years, but about
the same amount of time ago, I took the following trip with my
daughter: Rome to Salzburg; some train travel around Salzburg;
Salzburg to Frankfurt, some train travel around there; Frankfurt to
Amsterdam; Amsterdam to London. I priced a Eurail pass and
point-to-point tickets, and the latter cost less, so I didn't get a
pass.

    >Considering the amount of travel we got out of that pass, I certainly have
    >no complaints. Having the pass meant that we could go just about anywhere
    >we wanted to. We didn't have to weigh the cost of train fare on any of our
    >excursions. It was already covered. The European trains were so much nice
    >than our trains, and the system so much more passenger friendly, it was a
    >pleasure to sit back and watch the scenery.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Dave Smith

Lennart Petersen wrote:

    > It's annoying, true but the advantage is that you can make a reservation
    > until the last minute.

If you can make a reservation at the last minute, wouldn't that mean that there
are seats available and, therefore, no need to reserve.

Iceman

"Is it better to get a 2 country pass ticket or get a full Euro rail
pass?"

Trains are cheap in Italy and Eastern Europe, while buses are cheap in
England and Spain, and there are low-cost airlines that offer cheap
flights throughout Europe. Due to all of those other options, it's
generally better not to get a railpass and just buy tickets as you go
for a combination of trains, buses, and flights. Not only will it cost
less, but you will also have a lot more flexibility.

Railpasses can sometimes pay off (1) if you will be taking a lot of
Western European cross-border, domestic German, or domestic French
train trips, which are expensive and (2) if you have a lot of time to
travel and can buy one of the long-term passes which are a better
value. Or if you If you want to do a 21-day, 9-city trip (I don't
recommend this, but a lot of people do it), then you really won't have
time to work out all of the other options as you go along, and a
railpass is really the only way to do it.

"Will the ticket only last 15 days or is that 15 travel days(days
traveled)?"

They offer both types. If you get the one with say, 10 travel days in
2 months, then you can save those for the most expensive trips and pay
out of pocket the rest of the time. But the smaller and cheaper trips
do add up over time, so this generally doesn't pay off.

"Is it true that a ticket is cheaper abroad in the US than in Europe?"

You can't buy it in Europe.

"which is the best site to by off?"

I've always had good results with STA Travel.

Dave Smith

B Vaughan wrote:

    > >About a dozen years ago I travelled on a Eurail pass. Our son was 15 and we
    > >had a 15 day pass that we made good use of. We started off in Paris and went
    > >to Strasbourg on our first day, then hopped over to Germany, basing
    > >ourselves at a friend's flat and making day trips, then down to Switzerland
    > >for a few days, over to Venice, back across Italy to Nice, spent two days
    > >and then back to Paris on the last day of the pass. We would have had more
    > >use of it but stayed three extra days in Switzerland when relatives there
    > >insisted that we stay longer. We had only panned a quick visit with them.
    > >Not that we didn't have a good time with them, just that we could have had
    > >several more days of train travel.
    > This may be a good example of a pass purchase that wasn't worth the
    > expenditure. These are all fairly short trips. I don't know how much
    > train fares and Eurail pass prices have changed in 12 years, but about
    > the same amount of time ago, I took the following trip with my
    > daughter: Rome to Salzburg; some train travel around Salzburg;
    > Salzburg to Frankfurt, some train travel around there; Frankfurt to
    > Amsterdam; Amsterdam to London. I priced a Eurail pass and
    > point-to-point tickets, and the latter cost less, so I didn't get a
    > pass.

That was in 1993. It was about $1500 Cdn. for the 15 day pass for the three of
us. It was a buddy pass, so we had to all travel together, which we were doing
anyway. And it was for 15 days of unlimited travel, as opposed to the option to
have a specified number of days of travel within period of time.

It certainly seemed reasonably compared to rail costs here in Canada. We made
several lengthy day trips from our headquarters in Germany, and would have had
another three days to travel around had we not been hijacked by relatives.

When I went over in 1999 with my brothers we looked into a pass and I was told
that it would be about $1200 each. We rented a car.

Tim

"Dave Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Lennart Petersen wrote:
    >> It's annoying, true but the advantage is that you can make a reservation
    >> until the last minute.
    > If you can make a reservation at the last minute, wouldn't that mean that
    > there
    > are seats available and, therefore, no need to reserve.

Only if:

a) you know that you are getting on before all the
other people without recervations.

b) In countries with the annoying policy of not
marking reserved seats, you are a lucky guesser.

tim

Timothy Kroesen

Buy point to point in rail cheap countries and investigate the % off
'cards' usually available in expensive countries... At best on Eurail I
broke a little to the better of even and notably still spent
significant time in rail office lines for reservations (some mandatory),
couchettes, schedules, etc... Proved not to be 'the hop on hop off'
experience they tout IMO.

Tim K

"Iceman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
    > "Is it better to get a 2 country pass ticket or get a full Euro rail
    > pass?"
    > Railpasses can sometimes pay off (1) if you will be taking a lot of
    > Western European cross-border, domestic German, or domestic French
    > train trips, which are expensive and (2) if you have a lot of time to
    > travel and can buy one of the long-term passes which are a better
    > value. Or if you If you want to do a 21-day, 9-city trip (I don't
    > recommend this, but a lot of people do it), then you really won't have
    > time to work out all of the other options as you go along, and a
    > railpass is really the only way to do it.

Lennart Petersen

"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:38:15 -0500, Dave Smith
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>About a dozen years ago I travelled on a Eurail pass. Our son was 15 and
    >>we
    >>had a 15 day pass that we made good use of. We started off in Paris and
    >>went
    >>to Strasbourg on our first day, then hopped over to Germany, basing
    >>ourselves at a friend's flat and making day trips, then down to
    >>Switzerland
    >>for a few days, over to Venice, back across Italy to Nice, spent two days
    >>and then back to Paris on the last day of the pass. We would have had
    >>more
    >>use of it but stayed three extra days in Switzerland when relatives there
    >>insisted that we stay longer. We had only panned a quick visit with them.
    >>Not that we didn't have a good time with them, just that we could have had
    >>several more days of train travel.
    > This may be a good example of a pass purchase that wasn't worth the
    > expenditure. These are all fairly short trips.
--------------------------
But you don't know much about the mentioned day trips in Germany.
With today�s fast trains you can easy reach places far away and "clock up"
amounts of 50-100-150 Euro a day compared with regular prices. Same for
Switzerland where trains are slower but railprices are more expensive.
A r.t Z�rich-Geneve as example is at 154CHF 2cl or 256 CHF 1cl.
The advantage of a rail pass isn't necessarily the same as the number of
countries visited or the distance between the outposts in the itinerary.
It's more a matter of the number of days used.