English Language in Paris
Aug 7th 2007, 9:51 pm
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
>>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly
>>appreciated.
>>
> Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
And look forward to, not dread, the differences. If you want everything to
be the same as home, why travel? It's the differences that make travel
worthwhile. Don't try to avoid places that might push your comfort zone out
a bit either. In all likelihood you'll survive, and learn from the
experience. And if you can give someone a laugh by making fun of yourself,
so much the better!
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>appreciated.
>>
> Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
And look forward to, not dread, the differences. If you want everything to
be the same as home, why travel? It's the differences that make travel
worthwhile. Don't try to avoid places that might push your comfort zone out
a bit either. In all likelihood you'll survive, and learn from the
experience. And if you can give someone a laugh by making fun of yourself,
so much the better!
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Aug 7th 2007, 10:38 pm
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
On Aug 7, 5:49 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
> >> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
> >> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
> >> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
> >> any better?)
>
> > It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
> > i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
> > Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
> > meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
> > likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
> > don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.
>
> And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
> partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
> France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
> And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
Inexplicably, they love the TV shows "Saved by the Bell" and
"MacGyver".
> >> SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
> >> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
> >> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
> >> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
> >> any better?)
>
> > It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
> > i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
> > Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
> > meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
> > likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
> > don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.
>
> And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
> partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
> France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
> And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
Inexplicably, they love the TV shows "Saved by the Bell" and
"MacGyver".
Aug 7th 2007, 10:40 pm
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
> >partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
> >France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
> >And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
> >
> A highly-developed sense of irony.
Shit taste, probably. It's a mediterranean thing. I was kept awake one
night by some Italian crooner in Pula's ampitheatre belting out one
melodic clich� after another until around 1am, and everytime he came
back to the refrain, you could hear the entire audience resound to the
tune. Someone renting a room in the house had come especially from Italy
just for that night!
Then, at some ungodly hour, so to speak, the bells started...
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
> >partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
> >France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
> >And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
> >
> A highly-developed sense of irony.
Shit taste, probably. It's a mediterranean thing. I was kept awake one
night by some Italian crooner in Pula's ampitheatre belting out one
melodic clich� after another until around 1am, and everytime he came
back to the refrain, you could hear the entire audience resound to the
tune. Someone renting a room in the house had come especially from Italy
just for that night!
Then, at some ungodly hour, so to speak, the bells started...
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
Aug 7th 2007, 10:41 pm
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Iceman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 7, 5:49 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
> > >> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
> > >> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
> > >> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
> > >> any better?)
> >
> > > It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
> > > i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
> > > Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
> > > meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
> > > likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
> > > don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.
> >
> > And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
> > partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
> > France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
> > And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
>
>
> Inexplicably, they love the TV shows "Saved by the Bell" and
> "MacGyver".
In the latter, the irony is often missed in the subtitles/dubbing.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> On Aug 7, 5:49 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
> > >> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
> > >> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
> > >> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
> > >> any better?)
> >
> > > It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
> > > i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
> > > Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
> > > meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
> > > likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
> > > don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.
> >
> > And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
> > partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
> > France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
> > And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
>
>
> Inexplicably, they love the TV shows "Saved by the Bell" and
> "MacGyver".
In the latter, the irony is often missed in the subtitles/dubbing.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
Aug 7th 2007, 11:05 pm
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
>partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
>France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
>And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
>
A highly-developed sense of irony.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
>And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
>partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
>France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
>And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
>
A highly-developed sense of irony.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
Aug 8th 2007, 1:02 am
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Mike Collins writes:
> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> their stories of not speaking French in Paris?
People in Paris who come regularly into contact with tourists or international
visitors usually speak some English, although it can be very basic. Those who
never come into contact with foreigners often speak no English at all.
Although all French people are now given compulsory instruction in English in
school, a lack of motivation and the extremely poor quality of public-school
English instruction combine to make it very rare that a French person speaks
English fluently unless he has a strong reason to do so.
Nevertheless, there are enough people in Paris who speak English well enough
that you don't need any French to visit, particularly if you plan mainly to
remain in areas frequented by tourists. If you go to a supermarket or
home-improvement center (the kinds of places frequented only by locals), you
may have a hard time finding people who speak English--French people who can't
speak English naturally prefer to work at jobs where they won't normally need
to speak English.
> Could you still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants?
In most restaurants you should have no trouble. Many restaurants,
particularly those with tourist trade, have bilingual or English menus
available.
France as a whole speaks very little English, but Paris, being the world's
most popular destination city, does manage to speak it well enough to
accommodate its many visitors.
> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> their stories of not speaking French in Paris?
People in Paris who come regularly into contact with tourists or international
visitors usually speak some English, although it can be very basic. Those who
never come into contact with foreigners often speak no English at all.
Although all French people are now given compulsory instruction in English in
school, a lack of motivation and the extremely poor quality of public-school
English instruction combine to make it very rare that a French person speaks
English fluently unless he has a strong reason to do so.
Nevertheless, there are enough people in Paris who speak English well enough
that you don't need any French to visit, particularly if you plan mainly to
remain in areas frequented by tourists. If you go to a supermarket or
home-improvement center (the kinds of places frequented only by locals), you
may have a hard time finding people who speak English--French people who can't
speak English naturally prefer to work at jobs where they won't normally need
to speak English.
> Could you still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants?
In most restaurants you should have no trouble. Many restaurants,
particularly those with tourist trade, have bilingual or English menus
available.
France as a whole speaks very little English, but Paris, being the world's
most popular destination city, does manage to speak it well enough to
accommodate its many visitors.
Aug 8th 2007, 1:04 am
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
LordAvalon writes:
> And select your target among younger crowds or business looking types
> which are more likely to speak english.
That's not necessarily a reliable assumption. Younger people have more
exposure to English but often still cannot speak it better than their elders,
unless knowing 10 words instead of 5 counts as speaking it better.
> And select your target among younger crowds or business looking types
> which are more likely to speak english.
That's not necessarily a reliable assumption. Younger people have more
exposure to English but often still cannot speak it better than their elders,
unless knowing 10 words instead of 5 counts as speaking it better.
Aug 8th 2007, 1:05 am
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> LordAvalon writes:
>
> > And select your target among younger crowds or business looking types
> > which are more likely to speak english.
>
> That's not necessarily a reliable assumption. Younger people have more
> exposure to English but often still cannot speak it better than their elders,
> unless knowing 10 words instead of 5 counts as speaking it better.
Have you met Markkku?
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> LordAvalon writes:
>
> > And select your target among younger crowds or business looking types
> > which are more likely to speak english.
>
> That's not necessarily a reliable assumption. Younger people have more
> exposure to English but often still cannot speak it better than their elders,
> unless knowing 10 words instead of 5 counts as speaking it better.
Have you met Markkku?
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
Aug 8th 2007, 1:06 am
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
The Reid writes:
> I think a lot speak more english than they let on.
Not today. They are much more willing to use the English they know, and what
they appear to know is very likely all that they know. Those who are truly
fluent will not generally hide it. Those who seem to be struggling _are_
struggling. The ones most likely to want to hide an ability to speak English
also tend to be the ones who refuse to ever learn English.
> I think a lot speak more english than they let on.
Not today. They are much more willing to use the English they know, and what
they appear to know is very likely all that they know. Those who are truly
fluent will not generally hide it. Those who seem to be struggling _are_
struggling. The ones most likely to want to hide an ability to speak English
also tend to be the ones who refuse to ever learn English.
Aug 8th 2007, 1:08 am
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Iceman writes:
> Many younger people and many people in the tourism industry will speak
> English well.
Not well; adequately. And they often appear to be more fluent than they are.
> Many younger people and many people in the tourism industry will speak
> English well.
Not well; adequately. And they often appear to be more fluent than they are.
Aug 8th 2007, 1:21 am
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Mxsmanic wrote:
> If you go to a supermarket or
> home-improvement center (the kinds of places frequented only by locals), you
> may have a hard time finding people who speak English
How do you say in French, "How much is that air conditioning
unit?"...???
--
Best
Greg
> If you go to a supermarket or
> home-improvement center (the kinds of places frequented only by locals), you
> may have a hard time finding people who speak English
How do you say in French, "How much is that air conditioning
unit?"...???
--
Best
Greg
Aug 8th 2007, 1:52 am
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
>> If you go to a supermarket or
>> home-improvement center (the kinds of places frequented only by locals),
>> you
>> may have a hard time finding people who speak English
>
>
> How do you say in French, "How much is that air conditioning
> unit?"...???
Or... which units have the automatic ice-cube makers that create more than 3
cubes/day?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> If you go to a supermarket or
>> home-improvement center (the kinds of places frequented only by locals),
>> you
>> may have a hard time finding people who speak English
>
>
> How do you say in French, "How much is that air conditioning
> unit?"...???
>
>
> --
> Best
> Greg
>
>> home-improvement center (the kinds of places frequented only by locals),
>> you
>> may have a hard time finding people who speak English
>
>
> How do you say in French, "How much is that air conditioning
> unit?"...???
Or... which units have the automatic ice-cube makers that create more than 3
cubes/day?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> If you go to a supermarket or
>> home-improvement center (the kinds of places frequented only by locals),
>> you
>> may have a hard time finding people who speak English
>
>
> How do you say in French, "How much is that air conditioning
> unit?"...???
>
>
> --
> Best
> Greg
>
Aug 8th 2007, 6:39 am
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Doesn't Frequently Mop wrote:
> Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:17:19 -0700,
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>
>>On Aug 7, 6:04 am, The Reid <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Others dont respond to poor french. But one copes!
>>
>>I barely remember the French I learned in high school several decades
>>ago. Often, when I started a conversation in French, I would get a
>>response in English. This happened most frequently in areas
>>frequented by tourists (�le de France, Lyon, etc.). I guess my accent
>>was so bad that they decided English would be easier for both of us.
>
>
> Even though my Italian is good, people still respond to me in English
> sometimes, just because they don't want to seem ignorant.
I doubt whether any Italian CARES what some ignorant
American tourist thinks of them! Evidently your Italian is
not nearly so good as you think it is, so they reply in
English out of politeness.
> Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:17:19 -0700,
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>
>>On Aug 7, 6:04 am, The Reid <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Others dont respond to poor french. But one copes!
>>
>>I barely remember the French I learned in high school several decades
>>ago. Often, when I started a conversation in French, I would get a
>>response in English. This happened most frequently in areas
>>frequented by tourists (�le de France, Lyon, etc.). I guess my accent
>>was so bad that they decided English would be easier for both of us.
>
>
> Even though my Italian is good, people still respond to me in English
> sometimes, just because they don't want to seem ignorant.
I doubt whether any Italian CARES what some ignorant
American tourist thinks of them! Evidently your Italian is
not nearly so good as you think it is, so they reply in
English out of politeness.
Aug 8th 2007, 6:45 am
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Martin wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:47:43 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>
>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:42:33 -0700,
>>"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>
>>Above all, try to learn it from listening. Really concentrate on how
>>they pronounce it, and try to sing it back to them.
>>
>>It does work.
>
>
> Only if you are a diva.
Actually, there are differences between French as it's
spoken and as it is sung. In singing, many sylables are
pronuounced although the spoken language slurs over them.
(Also, the final "e" of many words is pronounced in vocal
music, but not in speech.)
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:47:43 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>
>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:42:33 -0700,
>>"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>
>>Above all, try to learn it from listening. Really concentrate on how
>>they pronounce it, and try to sing it back to them.
>>
>>It does work.
>
>
> Only if you are a diva.
Actually, there are differences between French as it's
spoken and as it is sung. In singing, many sylables are
pronuounced although the spoken language slurs over them.
(Also, the final "e" of many words is pronounced in vocal
music, but not in speech.)
Aug 8th 2007, 6:51 am
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly
>>>appreciated.
>>>
>>
>>Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
>
>
> And look forward to, not dread, the differences. If you want everything to
> be the same as home, why travel? It's the differences that make travel
> worthwhile. Don't try to avoid places that might push your comfort zone out
> a bit either. In all likelihood you'll survive, and learn from the
> experience. And if you can give someone a laugh by making fun of yourself,
> so much the better!
Yes! Being able to laugh at your own mistakes goes a long
way toward "getting along" in a foreign country - France or
anywhere else.
>>>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly
>>>appreciated.
>>>
>>
>>Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
>
>
> And look forward to, not dread, the differences. If you want everything to
> be the same as home, why travel? It's the differences that make travel
> worthwhile. Don't try to avoid places that might push your comfort zone out
> a bit either. In all likelihood you'll survive, and learn from the
> experience. And if you can give someone a laugh by making fun of yourself,
> so much the better!
Yes! Being able to laugh at your own mistakes goes a long
way toward "getting along" in a foreign country - France or
anywhere else.