Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

Hi,

My partner and I are planning a trip from Edinburgh to Wellington
overland (and sea). We're aiming to travel by train from Edinburgh to
Berlin to Moscow to Irkutsk to Beijing to Hong Kong. From there it
looks like it will get a little more chaotic, but we're aiming to get
to Hanoi, then Saigon, then Phnom Penh by bus. We'll try to get to
Siemreap for a day or so to see Angkor Wat, then onwards to the Thai
border. From there, train to Bangkok, then Kuala Lumpar, then
Singapore. Our schedule (as it stands at the moment) is:

Thursday 24th Jan - Depart Edinburgh for Berlin (GNER, Eurostar and
German Railways sleeper)
Saturday 26th Jan - Depart Berlin for Moscow (Moskva Express)
Tuesday 29th Jan - Depart Moscow for Irkutsk (Number 10 'Baikal')
Tuesday 5th Feb - Depart Irkutsk for Beijing (Number 20 'Vostok')
Sunday 10th Feb - Depart Beijing for Hong Kong (T97)
Friday 15th Feb - Depart Hong Kong for Hanoi (train and bus)
>From here it gets a little more chaotic, and travel may have to be
booked as we arrive...:
Sunday 17th Feb - Depart Hanoi for Saigon (train)
Wednesday 20th Feb - Depart Saigon for Phnom Penh (bus)
Thursday 21st Feb - Depart Phnom Penh for Siemreap (bus or boat)
Saturday 23rd Feb - Depart Siemreap for Bangkok (taxi/bus and train)
Tuesday 26th Feb - Depart Bangkok for Kuala Lumpar (Train 35, Train7)
Thursday 28th Feb - Depart Kuala Lumpar for Singapore (Train 5 or
Train 1)
Sunday 2nd March - Depart Singapore for Brisbane (MV Theodor Storm)
We've then got about 10 days in Australia before we get on a cruise
ship from Sydney to Auckland.

Most of the information we've had so far has come from seat61.com.

So, can anyone offer any pearls of wisdom?

In particular, I'd like to hear about the rigours of travelling across
Russia and China in February, and any info about the level of clothing
we'll need would be invaluable (we should be able to post some back
from HK, so we're planning on getting down jackets that will pack to
nothing).

Also, any insights at all into the SE Asian legs would be great - it
seems to be much more difficult to find out information ahead of time,
and we will necessarily be on a reasonably tight timetable. I hope
I've built in enough leeway to get to Singapore before our ship leaves
- I'd love to take several months doing this trip, but we can only
take so much time off.

In fact, any advice or observations at all will be warmly received!

Thanks in advance - Adam...

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

Why don't you simply fly between London and Hong Kong? Not sure if it's
a good idea to travel overland in Russia and Siberia in February. Also,
you would have more time for the Asian sights.
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

"Alfred Molon" <[email protected]> wrote


Not sure if it's
> a good idea to travel overland in Russia and Siberia in February.


No it isn't- take it from one who's done it!- www.TruckDrivingInRussia.co.uk

However, it *is* "adventure"!



--
Regards, Vince.

International Trucking Photographs- - http://200476.aceboard.net/

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

"Alfred Molon" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected] ...
> Why don't you simply fly between London and Hong Kong? Not sure if it's
> a good idea to travel overland in Russia and Siberia in February. Also,
> you would have more time for the Asian sights.
Well some people understand the adventure and experience of travelling
overland while others don't.....
why don't you fly... or why don't you just stay at home and watch the tv ?

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

On Aug 9, 3:35 pm, "Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Alfred Molon" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandetnews:[email protected] pernews.com...> Why don't you simply fly between London and Hong Kong? Not sure if it's
> > a good idea to travel overland in Russia and Siberia in February. Also,
> > you would have more time for the Asian sights.
>
> Well some people understand the adventure and experience of travelling
> overland while others don't..... why don't you fly... or why don't you just
> stay at home and watch the tv ?


Overland travel can be great, but the OP should make sure that he
knows what he's getting into. The schedule he has planned would have
him on the move almost constantly, mostly in countries where transport
is very slow and often unpleasant, with very few days to actually see
any of the places he's passing through, and then there's the issue of
winter in Berlin, Russia and Beijing.

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

"Iceman" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> On Aug 9, 3:35 pm, "Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> "Alfred Molon" <[email protected]> skrev i
>> meddelandetnews:[email protected] pernews.com...> Why
>> don't you simply fly between London and Hong Kong? Not sure if it's
>> > a good idea to travel overland in Russia and Siberia in February. Also,
>> > you would have more time for the Asian sights.
>>
>> Well some people understand the adventure and experience of travelling
>> overland while others don't..... why don't you fly... or why don't you
>> just
>> stay at home and watch the tv ?
>
>
> Overland travel can be great, but the OP should make sure that he
> knows what he's getting into. The schedule he has planned would have
> him on the move almost constantly, mostly in countries where transport
> is very slow and often unpleasant, with very few days to actually see
> any of the places he's passing through, and then there's the issue of
> winter in Berlin, Russia and Beijing.
>
But actually I don't think that part of the journey is exceptional, it's
cold in the winter but I've travelled the Transsiberian railway and those
trains are quite comfortable. The most adventurous as I can see is from
Saigon over Cambodia to the Thai border. Roads are real bad and you can't
expect much of Western standard alongside the route , except for Phnom
Penh. The rest down to Singapore is not much of a problem. However
that's a challenge...

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

On 9 Aug, 21:25, Iceman <[email protected]> wrote:
-8<- snip->8-
> Overland travel can be great, but the OP should make sure that he
> knows what he's getting into. The schedule he has planned would have
> him on the move almost constantly, mostly in countries where transport
> is very slow and often unpleasant, with very few days to actually see
> any of the places he's passing through, and then there's the issue of
> winter in Berlin, Russia and Beijing.

Thanks for the thoughts, Iceman. I don't actually think that will be
the most difficult part, with the exception of having to take enough
clothing to be comfortable in temperatures down to -40. The legs to
Beijing can be planned in some depth and pre-booked; our stops are to
break up the journey and to get a flavour but the central object is to
make the journey to NZ without a plane.

I don't anticipate too many problems with the transport - all of the
train services are apparently pretty reliable and the time in Irkutsk
is determined by the timetables of the trains we want to catch. We may
take a day or two more to get to Moscow (although, again, very
reliable train services take us there) and I'm seriously considering
leaving 1 week earlier now to give us more leeway in SE Asia.

Cheers - Adam.

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

In article <[email protected]>, Lennart Petersen
says...
>
> But actually I don't think that part of the journey is exceptional, it's
> cold in the winter but I've travelled the Transsiberian railway and those
> trains are quite comfortable. The most adventurous as I can see is from
> Saigon over Cambodia to the Thai border. Roads are real bad and you can't
> expect much of Western standard alongside the route , except for Phnom
> Penh.

That's actually a kindergarten trip (in Cambodia). It used to be fun in
September 2000, during the rainy season, when the road was a mud track
with holes big enough to swallow a truck:
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Cambodia/BKKtoSiemReap/
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Cambodia/SiemReaptoBKK/

I'm afraid that by now the road from Siem Reap to Poipet has been paved
and in any case February-March will be the dry season in Cambodia.
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

In article <[email protected] om>,
says...

> but the central object is to
> make the journey to NZ without a plane.

Are you afraid of flying?
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

On 9 Aug, 21:51, "Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Iceman" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandetnews:1186691157.175908.234670@e9g2000pr f.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Aug 9, 3:35 pm, "Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> "Alfred Molon" <[email protected]> skrev i
> >> meddelandetnews:[email protected] pernews.com...> Why
> >> don't you simply fly between London and Hong Kong? Not sure if it's
> >> > a good idea to travel overland in Russia and Siberia in February. Also,
> >> > you would have more time for the Asian sights.
>
> >> Well some people understand the adventure and experience of travelling
> >> overland while others don't..... why don't you fly... or why don't you
> >> just
> >> stay at home and watch the tv ?
>
> > Overland travel can be great, but the OP should make sure that he
> > knows what he's getting into. The schedule he has planned would have
> > him on the move almost constantly, mostly in countries where transport
> > is very slow and often unpleasant, with very few days to actually see
> > any of the places he's passing through, and then there's the issue of
> > winter in Berlin, Russia and Beijing.
>
> But actually I don't think that part of the journey is exceptional, it's
> cold in the winter but I've travelled the Transsiberian railway and those
> trains are quite comfortable. The most adventurous as I can see is from
> Saigon over Cambodia to the Thai border. Roads are real bad and you can't
> expect much of Western standard alongside the route , except for Phnom
> Penh. The rest down to Singapore is not much of a problem. However
> that's a challenge...

That's the bit that worries me most, too. As I mentioned above, I'm
seriously considering moving the trans-Manchurian portion ahead by one
week - as it stands at the moment we we only have about four spare
days built in for delays - although we could leave HK a day or two
earlier - and I appreciate how exciting and unpredictable bus travel
can be in SE Asia (nhad my heart in my mouth a few times on bus
journeys in Thailand and Indonesia)! The other biggest area of doubt
is how easy the border crossing into Vietnam and the subsequent
journey to Saigon will be and how close to our timetable we can keep.

Thanks - Adam Cheney

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

In article <[email protected] .com>,
says...

> That's the bit that worries me most, too.

Nothing to worry about. Road transportation is very good nowadays in
Cambodia, especially along the main road from the Vietnamese border to
the Thai border in Aranyaprathet.

> As I mentioned above, I'm
> seriously considering moving the trans-Manchurian portion ahead by one
> week - as it stands at the moment we we only have about four spare
> days built in for delays - although we could leave HK a day or two
> earlier - and I appreciate how exciting and unpredictable bus travel
> can be in SE Asia

It's (unfortunately) not that exciting and unpredictable anymore.

> (nhad my heart in my mouth a few times on bus
> journeys in Thailand and Indonesia)!

Indonesia is entirely a different place. Thailand has an excellent
infrastructure.

> The other biggest area of doubt
> is how easy the border crossing into Vietnam and the subsequent
> journey to Saigon will be and how close to our timetable we can keep.

Haven't tried yet to cross overland from China into Vietnam, but I can
imagine that with a valid visa they will let you through in a matter of
minutes. Anything else would very much surprise me.

Hanoi to Saigon should also be no problem overland, although I did the
trip only by flying. But all I heard and saw in Vietnam leads me to the
assumption that it will be easy to get from Hanoi to Saigon overland.
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

On 9 Aug, 22:25, Alfred Molon <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected] om>,
> says...
>
> > but the central object is to
> > make the journey to NZ without a plane.
>
> Are you afraid of flying?
> --
>
> Alfred Molonhttp://www.molon.de- Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

No, not even remotely - I love planes and flying - although I'm
getting increasingly p****d-off with the whole commercial passenger
flight experience.

This is more an exercise in getting our heads around exactly how much
of planet Earth there is between our home and my place of birth; it's
a trip I've wanted to do for a long time. I think I mentioned earlier
that I'd have liked to have taken a year or so to do it, but this is
all the time that my partner and I can afford at the moment. Maybe
we'll take a more leisurely version of this tour another time...

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

On 9 Aug, 22:49, Alfred Molon <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected] .com>,
> says...
>
> > That's the bit that worries me most, too.
>
> Nothing to worry about. Road transportation is very good nowadays in
> Cambodia, especially along the main road from the Vietnamese border to
> the Thai border in Aranyaprathet.

Good to know.

> > As I mentioned above, I'm
> > seriously considering moving the trans-Manchurian portion ahead by one
> > week - as it stands at the moment we we only have about four spare
> > days built in for delays - although we could leave HK a day or two
> > earlier - and I appreciate how exciting and unpredictable bus travel
> > can be in SE Asia
>
> It's (unfortunately) not that exciting and unpredictable anymore.
-8<- snip ->8-

That's also good to hear, given that we'll be on a timetable.

Actually, I'm warming more and more to the idea of leaving around a
week or so earlier from Edinburgh, so that we have some more time in
SE Asia, and maybe an extra day in each of Berlin, Moscow and Beijing.

> > The other biggest area of doubt
> > is how easy the border crossing into Vietnam and the subsequent
> > journey to Saigon will be and how close to our timetable we can keep.
>
> Haven't tried yet to cross overland from China into Vietnam, but I can
> imagine that with a valid visa they will let you through in a matter of
> minutes. Anything else would very much surprise me.
>
> Hanoi to Saigon should also be no problem overland, although I did the
> trip only by flying. But all I heard and saw in Vietnam leads me to the
> assumption that it will be easy to get from Hanoi to Saigon overland.
-8<- snip ->8-

OK, that's also good to hear.

Thanks for the encouraging reports!

Cheers - Adam...

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

On Aug 10, 5:51 am, Alfred Molon <[email protected]> wrote:
Why don't you simply fly between London and Hong Kong?

*****Why don't you stick your finger up your arse and twist it you
turd???????

Re: Edinburgh to New Zealand overland (and sea) - request for advice (longish)...
 

"LarbGai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> On Aug 10, 5:51 am, Alfred Molon <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why don't you simply fly between London and Hong Kong?
>
> *****Why don't you stick your finger up your arse and twist it you
> turd???????
>


Nice to see Ryanair's customer service department posting.

--
Trish

Dublin

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