Robert

What is the approximate average net worth in Euros of the average
Dutch person? Why are the towns and cities in Belgium run down looking
compared to The Netherlands? You see the difference right when you
cross the border. Why is this?

Lennart Petersen

"Robert" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected] m...
    > What is the approximate average net worth in Euros of the average
    > Dutch person? Why are the towns and cities in Belgium run down looking
    > compared to The Netherlands? You see the difference right when you
    > cross the border. Why is this?
-----------------------------
I would rather say that you'll see the difference between the
Dutch/Flemish-speaking areas and the French speaking inside Belgium.
The Flemish speaking areas are typically nice and wellkept as in Netherlands
while houses in the French speaking may be more neglected.
Possibly that reflects the French attitude of spending money on other things
than housing or maybe it reflects that the Frenchspeaking parts have
recently suffered more from unemployment when a lot of once important heavy
industrious closed.

Tom Bellhouse

"Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] m...
    > What is the approximate average net worth in Euros of the average
    > Dutch person? Why are the towns and cities in Belgium run down looking
    > compared to The Netherlands? You see the difference right when you
    > cross the border. Why is this?

The old answer is that the Dutch know how to make money but don't know
how to spend it, and the Belgians know how to spend money but don't know
how to make it.

Tom

nospamplease

[email protected] (Robert) writes:

    > What is the approximate average net worth in Euros of the average
    > Dutch person? Why are the towns and cities in Belgium run down looking
    > compared to The Netherlands? You see the difference right when you
    > cross the border. Why is this?

The main thing I noticed when I crossed the border was that Belgium
has real trees. Proper mature trees that look as if they've been
growing there for lifetimes. The Netherlands by contrast looks like a
sort of artificial toyland, with very carefully regimented little toy
architects' trees here and there. Belgium seems more like the UK - a
sort of comfortable natural mess. The Netherlands has very nicely
planned streets (I'd kill to have those cycle paths here in Scotland)
but it also seems inescapably artificial somehow.

Another thing. In Amsterdam, which I visit every year or so, they
seem to be addicted to constantly rebuilding everything. All the
streets and buildings seem to be being constantly renovated and dug up
and redesigned and re-renovated. It's always changing. There always
seem to be many huge capital-intensive building projects on the go at
any one time. It must take a lot of money.
--
-- Chris.

Xz

<< Another thing. In Amsterdam, which I visit every year or so, they
seem to be addicted to constantly rebuilding everything. All the
streets and buildings seem to be being constantly renovated and dug up
and redesigned and re-renovated. It's always changing. There always
seem to be many huge capital-intensive building projects on the go at
any one time. It must take a lot of money.>>

Must be a bit like living in Edinburgh then?

nospamplease

"xz" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Must be a bit like living in Edinburgh then?

Not really :-) We have one or two building projects such as the
Scottish parliament building, but everything else just sits and rots
for years on end. in Amsterdam they seem to be frantically rebuilding
everything, everywhere, every year! And in the time it'll take
Edinburgh to get its first two tram lines up and running, if it ever
happens at all, Amsterdam will have planned and built goodness knows
how many glamorous new transport systems. Or that's how it seems from
here anyway. Maybe it's just that "the grass is always greener on the
other side of the valley".
--
-- Chris.

Xz

<<Not really :-) We have one or two building projects such as the
Scottish parliament building, but everything else just sits and rots
for years on end. >>

Ahaa,

You haven't tried to drive around the Lawn Market or The Gyle or
Fountainbridge or Bankhead Drive or Glasgow Rd or Stevenson Dr, and many
other places too numerous to mention here, in the last few months then?

Ff

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 01:47:15 GMT, "Lennart Petersen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Robert" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
    >news:[email protected] om...
    >> What is the approximate average net worth in Euros of the average
    >> Dutch person? Why are the towns and cities in Belgium run down looking
    >> compared to The Netherlands? You see the difference right when you
    >> cross the border. Why is this?
    >-----------------------------
    > I would rather say that you'll see the difference between the
    >Dutch/Flemish-speaking areas and the French speaking inside Belgium.
    >The Flemish speaking areas are typically nice and wellkept as in Netherlands
    >while houses in the French speaking may be more neglected.
    >Possibly that reflects the French attitude of spending money on other things
    >than housing or maybe it reflects that the Frenchspeaking parts have
    >recently suffered more from unemployment when a lot of once important heavy
    >industrious closed.

Well, no... Otherwise you wouldn't see the difference when you cross the
border. What I've seen in the Flemish area are bleak little villages
with all the houses with their shutters down, ribbon developments along
all major roads, derelict farm houses. There's a huge difference in
mindset that runs right along the border there.

Granted that Wallonia got prettier scenery, to my mind it's also a bit
cleaner & has nicer towns.

Liz

nitram

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:47:46 GMT, FF <[email protected]> wrote:


    >Well, no... Otherwise you wouldn't see the difference when you cross the
    >border. What I've seen in the Flemish area are bleak little villages
    >with all the houses with their shutters down, ribbon developments along
    >all major roads, derelict farm houses. There's a huge difference in
    >mindset that runs right along the border there.

Most of the villages on the Flanders side of border are occupied by
Dutch people.

    >Granted that Wallonia got prettier scenery, to my mind it's also a bit
    >cleaner & has nicer towns.

Places like Charleroi?
--
Martin

Devil

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:19:58 +0100, nitram wrote:

    > On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:47:46 GMT, FF <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Well, no... Otherwise you wouldn't see the difference when you cross the
    >>border. What I've seen in the Flemish area are bleak little villages
    >>with all the houses with their shutters down, ribbon developments along
    >>all major roads, derelict farm houses. There's a huge difference in
    >>mindset that runs right along the border there.
    >
    > Most of the villages on the Flanders side of border are occupied by
    > Dutch people.

At least in some areas such as between Essen and Kalmthout. Because of
property taxes.

    >>Granted that Wallonia got prettier scenery, to my mind it's also a bit
    >>cleaner & has nicer towns.
    >
    > Places like Charleroi? How much does it differ from say, Borgherout?

Surely the Flemish landscape is mostly not terribly scenic. All these
Dutch guys seem quite happy to buy cottages in the Ardennes?

Sjoerd

<[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:47:46 GMT, FF <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Well, no... Otherwise you wouldn't see the difference when you cross the
    > >border. What I've seen in the Flemish area are bleak little villages
    > >with all the houses with their shutters down, ribbon developments along
    > >all major roads, derelict farm houses. There's a huge difference in
    > >mindset that runs right along the border there.
    > Most of the villages on the Flanders side of border are occupied by
    > Dutch people.

That's not true. The vast majority of the inhabitants of those towns and
villages are Belgians.

Sjoerd

/<Rist

FF wrote:

    > Well, no... Otherwise you wouldn't see the difference when you cross the
    > border. What I've seen in the Flemish area are bleak little villages
    > with all the houses with their shutters down, ribbon developments along
    > all major roads, derelict farm houses. There's a huge difference in
    > mindset that runs right along the border there.


It's a difference in mindset allright.
On average Belgians are a bit better of then Dutchman. But there are a
couple of big differences in attitudes to the public and private domain.

- Belgians put their shutters down when they're not there (or at night)
this is purely a difference in mentality with Holland. In Holland you're
supposed to let people look into your living room so they can see you're
not up to something bad.

- In the 30 ies Belgium and the Netherlands both had about 8 miljon
inhabitants. Right now the Netherlands is at 16 miljon, and Belgium at
10. In Belgium there is no housing shortage, in stead there is a housing
surplus. Guess where the surplus is: Where living is not that
attractive, alongside main roads, and (intil recently) inner city areas.
Get of the main road in a garden suburb and you'll find quite nice
houses. And none of the uniformity that blights the Dutch landscape.

- Belgians spend less on the public domain then the Dutch do. Houses are
a usually lot bigger in Belgium (and of better quality on average) then
in the Netherlands.

    > Granted that Wallonia got prettier scenery, to my mind it's also a bit
    > cleaner & has nicer towns.

You haven't been in the Wallonia where most of the Walloons live obviously.

Krist

nitram

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:22:03 +0100, "Sjoerd" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    ><[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    >news:[email protected].. .
    >> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:47:46 GMT, FF <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >Well, no... Otherwise you wouldn't see the difference when you cross the
    >> >border. What I've seen in the Flemish area are bleak little villages
    >> >with all the houses with their shutters down, ribbon developments along
    >> >all major roads, derelict farm houses. There's a huge difference in
    >> >mindset that runs right along the border there.
    >> Most of the villages on the Flanders side of border are occupied by
    >> Dutch people.
    >That's not true. The vast majority of the inhabitants of those towns and
    >villages are Belgians.

It's what the Belgians say. They complain correctly about the influx
of Dutch putting up house prices. How could that have happened,
unless there are a substantial number of Dutch living just over the
border? I have Dutch friends, who moved over the border, they say that
the village has become virtually Dutch.
--
Martin

Catweazle

A housing policy based on organic growth (Belgium) vs. strict
planology (Netherlands).

In general, the Dutch central government takes the balance between
housing need & environment into account to decided how much land
should be freed. Building companies are then told to build standard
houses on this land.
In Belgium, the rules are complicated but it can be thought that local
councils make building plots available according to local demand.
(Unfortunately Belgians cannot be accused of Nimbyism!) The plots are
then built on individually by the owners.

Granted, some parts of Belgium look absolutely awful, and Belgians
know this very well - one of the wisdoms going around there is that
most of the place is a strong contender for 'the World's ugliest
country'.

Both approaches have their pros and cons. Holland looks tidy but has
an important housing shortage, while Belgium has a big housing
surplus. Many of the run-down houses with closed shutters you see
along the roads will be empty.
Also, you could build your tailor-made 4-bed detached house on a
half-acre plot in Belgium for the price of a Dutch standard-built
3-bed semi. This keeping in mind that average salaries are equal
between the 2 countries.
The differences in the rental market are even more extreme. There is a
waiting-list of at least one year to rent a property anywhere in The
Netherlands, keeping in mind that you will only be allowed to rent a
'fitting' property - eg. no 3-bed house for a couple, even if you can
afford the rent!! (I've been there :-) On the other hand, Dutch social
housing is very well organised (especially for the destitute and newly
arrived immigrants)

If you're interested how these differences came about historically,
and can read Dutch, I can recommend this article:
http://www.noorderbreedte.nl/artikel/02-2-09.htm

Cheers
Catweazle

Sjoerd

<[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > It's what the Belgians say. They complain correctly about the influx
    > of Dutch putting up house prices. How could that have happened,
    > unless there are a substantial number of Dutch living just over the
    > border? I have Dutch friends, who moved over the border, they say that
    > the village has become virtually Dutch.

There are lots of Dutch people in some Belgian villages, but nowhere in
Belgium there is a Dutch majority.

Sjoerd