Dutch must fight or die, says Islam expert
Mar 26th 2007, 11:48 pm
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dutch must fight or die, says Islam expert
http://www.nisnews.nl/public/240307_2.htm
Islam Expert: Netherlands Tolerates Muslim Excesses
AMSTERDAM, 24/03/07 - Dutch politicians and media are downplaying
excesses of multicultural society and thereby increasing these, in the
view of Islam expert Hans Janssen. "The Netherlands should resist,
using non-peaceful means", he argues in weekly magazine Opinio.
Jansen, Professor of Modern Islamic Ideology at Utrecht University,
characterizes the Dutch as inhabitants of "a peaceful enclave" who
have, however, "forgotten that peace sometimes needs to be defended
through violence". A peaceful society that wishes to remain existent
and stay peaceful "will have to find a way to defend itself through
non-peaceful means from people who are not peaceful", as the Arabist
writes. "It will be hard to explaining this convincingly to all those
respectable and friendly people in the (Christian coalition parties)
CDA and ChristenUnie. And to the rest."
As Jansen sees it, the Netherlands is too indulgent to violence of
fundamentalist Muslims. But he also suggests that moderate Muslims,
too, strive after an Islamic society in the Netherlands. They
intentionally make use of the radicals to enforce their wishes,
according to the Arabist.
According to Jansen, Muslim fundamentalists frequently make threats,
but the Dutch media remain silent about them. He is pleading for a
central reporting station for all Dutch people who are being
threatened.
Jansen denounces the fact that the Nieuwe Kerk, a museum in Amsterdam,
allowed the Turkish government to remove passages on the Armenian
genocide from the catalogue of an exhibition about Istanbul. "Even
without the threat of violence, the public gets to see an exhibition
opened by the Queen that has been censored by Turkey".
The Netherlands chooses not to make an issue of these sorts of
matters, as Jansen states. "This attitude is gradually becoming
counterproductive. What is thought, written, exhibited or performed in
the Netherlands is to a large extent no longer made in freedom,
without this being perceptible. It is not the lie but the obscure
threat that reigns".
"We do not realise that the threat of violence, and violence itself,
can only be stopped through the controlled and cunning use of
violence". The Dutch secret service (AIVD) should get a special
department "that gets its hands dirty, if need be".
Jansen is an authority on the Arabic language and the Koran. Theo van
Gogh, who was murdered by a Muslim terrorist in 2004, employed him as
his tutor on Islam
Islam Expert: Netherlands Tolerates Muslim Excesses
AMSTERDAM, 24/03/07 - Dutch politicians and media are downplaying
excesses of multicultural society and thereby increasing these, in the
view of Islam expert Hans Janssen. "The Netherlands should resist,
using non-peaceful means", he argues in weekly magazine Opinio.
Jansen, Professor of Modern Islamic Ideology at Utrecht University,
characterizes the Dutch as inhabitants of "a peaceful enclave" who
have, however, "forgotten that peace sometimes needs to be defended
through violence". A peaceful society that wishes to remain existent
and stay peaceful "will have to find a way to defend itself through
non-peaceful means from people who are not peaceful", as the Arabist
writes. "It will be hard to explaining this convincingly to all those
respectable and friendly people in the (Christian coalition parties)
CDA and ChristenUnie. And to the rest."
As Jansen sees it, the Netherlands is too indulgent to violence of
fundamentalist Muslims. But he also suggests that moderate Muslims,
too, strive after an Islamic society in the Netherlands. They
intentionally make use of the radicals to enforce their wishes,
according to the Arabist.
According to Jansen, Muslim fundamentalists frequently make threats,
but the Dutch media remain silent about them. He is pleading for a
central reporting station for all Dutch people who are being
threatened.
Jansen denounces the fact that the Nieuwe Kerk, a museum in Amsterdam,
allowed the Turkish government to remove passages on the Armenian
genocide from the catalogue of an exhibition about Istanbul. "Even
without the threat of violence, the public gets to see an exhibition
opened by the Queen that has been censored by Turkey".
The Netherlands chooses not to make an issue of these sorts of
matters, as Jansen states. "This attitude is gradually becoming
counterproductive. What is thought, written, exhibited or performed in
the Netherlands is to a large extent no longer made in freedom,
without this being perceptible. It is not the lie but the obscure
threat that reigns".
"We do not realise that the threat of violence, and violence itself,
can only be stopped through the controlled and cunning use of
violence". The Dutch secret service (AIVD) should get a special
department "that gets its hands dirty, if need be".
Jansen is an authority on the Arabic language and the Koran. Theo van
Gogh, who was murdered by a Muslim terrorist in 2004, employed him as
his tutor on Islam
Mar 27th 2007, 3:16 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch must fight or die, says Islam expert
"Pajamas O'Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:
[email protected] om...
<snip>
>Back to Story - Help
By Sudip Kar-Gupta
Reuters
March 25, 2007
French political debate is shifting from Left Bank cafes and being
teleported into cyberspace.
Instead of agreeing to disagree over a glass of kir, many French
youths are sending their ideas flying through the computer-animated
world of Second Life.
"In here, you can see French people expressing themselves as they
ought to, instead of being the hypocrites they often are in real
life," said an avatar, or computer image, of what appeared to be a
woman using the Second Life moniker of Hayahaya Milo.
Unconventional names and uncertain gender are just one of many surreal
aspects of Second Life, the three-dimensional virtual world set up by
U.S. company Linden Labs that has attracted more than 2 million
registered users since opening in 2003.
Users adopt a persona and computer simulation of a human to navigate
the new world. They can choose at registration whether to appear as a
man or a woman. Sometimes they fly or teleport to a venue, and some
avatars' bodies have wings or horns.
Second Life's appeal to many young people has seen political
heavyweights around the world join businesses in the scramble to set
up shop in the online world and attract the youth vote.
Supporters of presidential frontrunners Nicolas Sarkozy, Socialist
Segolene Royal and centrist Francois Bayrou, along with fans of
National Front leader Jean Marie Le Pen, have all staked out territory
in cyberspace to drum up votes.
Recently at Bayrou's unofficial Second Life venue, a shaven-headed and
tattooed male avatar sported an orange T-shirt with the legend "Sexy
Centriste."
With France's presidential elections set for April and May, it has
occasionally added a dash of violent Gallic street protest to Second
Life.
In January a spat between far-right and left-wing supporters that
featured exploding virtual pigs made the front page of daily newspaper
Liberation.
"National Front supporters launched a few attacks against us, but we
can defend ourselves and sometimes try to hold debates with their more
open members," said Stephane Deschanel, who heads the Second Life
activities of the Socialist Party.
Clashes between political opponents are quite common in Second Life,
which also witnessed vandalism to the virtual office of U.S. democrat
Presidential candidate John Edwards.
As supporters of France's far-right National Front party gathered at
Le Pen's site to discuss a farewell speech from outgoing President
Jacques Chirac this month, they were interrupted by the sudden
discovery of some broken National Front slogans on their site.
"Before, it was worse. They were doing this kind of thing everywhere,
trying to create as much chaos as possible," said a virtual National
Front supporter called French Food, who blamed the cyberattack on
socialists.
He surveyed the slight damage, then returned to sip a virtual glass of
champagne.
Le Pen's site -- which looks like an exhibition space with French
tricolore flags and a poster of him and his daughter Marine -- often
houses supporters in buoyant mood predicting he will do well as they
drink copious amounts of virtual alcohol.
Somewhat incongruously, it is situated next to a Second Life nightclub
called 242. Inside the club, a female avatar with purple dreadlocks
gyrates wildly to the strains of electronic music, apparently
oblivious to the politics next door.
Sarkozy's site, where avatars can collect promotional T-shirts to
support his campaign, is like a conference venue. Avatars gather --
some apparently in mid-air -- for rallies.
Loic Le Meur, who speaks for Sarkozy on Internet-related issues, said
the Second Life site was popular, but not as important for the
candidate as Internet videos and blogs.
"The campaign site gets 15,000 (visits from) avatars a day, which is
very good but not quite the same as reaching out to masses of people,"
said Le Meur.
A teleport and a flight over some mountains takes you to Royal's site,
on an island called Bretton. A virtual flag with her portrait flies
above the scene.
The Socialists said Second Life was part of Royal's plan to tap into
the thoughts of France's youth. Le Pen's followers are keen to have a
decent image in Second Life, as the party tries to airbrush its
sometimes jackboot reputation.
"We're not racist, we're just proud of being French," said a Le Pen
supporter calling herself Celeste Obscure.
Being able to take on a fake identity gives people the courage to
express what they really feel, adherents say.
"This allows for real freedom of expression and it lets you see how
French people allow themselves to be manipulated by the mainstream
media," says Second Life's Mademoiselle Milo, who like the Socialists'
Deschanel declined to reveal her real name.
But since the futuristic world is based around false identities, it is
impossible to be sure that Second Life supporters of the candidates
also support them in real life. A real-life supporter of Royal could
pretend to be a Le Pen voter and enter his site as a virtual spy.
A Le Pen-backing avatar called Proteus Lancaster said wanting to snoop
on rivals is nothing unusual, adding that a person's real character
eventually comes through in Second Life.
"Real life and Second Life are quite similar. You often behave in the
same way."
For more news about Second Life, visit the Reuters Second Life News
Center at http://secondlife.reuters.com
[email protected] om...
<snip>
>Back to Story - Help
By Sudip Kar-Gupta
Reuters
March 25, 2007
French political debate is shifting from Left Bank cafes and being
teleported into cyberspace.
Instead of agreeing to disagree over a glass of kir, many French
youths are sending their ideas flying through the computer-animated
world of Second Life.
"In here, you can see French people expressing themselves as they
ought to, instead of being the hypocrites they often are in real
life," said an avatar, or computer image, of what appeared to be a
woman using the Second Life moniker of Hayahaya Milo.
Unconventional names and uncertain gender are just one of many surreal
aspects of Second Life, the three-dimensional virtual world set up by
U.S. company Linden Labs that has attracted more than 2 million
registered users since opening in 2003.
Users adopt a persona and computer simulation of a human to navigate
the new world. They can choose at registration whether to appear as a
man or a woman. Sometimes they fly or teleport to a venue, and some
avatars' bodies have wings or horns.
Second Life's appeal to many young people has seen political
heavyweights around the world join businesses in the scramble to set
up shop in the online world and attract the youth vote.
Supporters of presidential frontrunners Nicolas Sarkozy, Socialist
Segolene Royal and centrist Francois Bayrou, along with fans of
National Front leader Jean Marie Le Pen, have all staked out territory
in cyberspace to drum up votes.
Recently at Bayrou's unofficial Second Life venue, a shaven-headed and
tattooed male avatar sported an orange T-shirt with the legend "Sexy
Centriste."
With France's presidential elections set for April and May, it has
occasionally added a dash of violent Gallic street protest to Second
Life.
In January a spat between far-right and left-wing supporters that
featured exploding virtual pigs made the front page of daily newspaper
Liberation.
"National Front supporters launched a few attacks against us, but we
can defend ourselves and sometimes try to hold debates with their more
open members," said Stephane Deschanel, who heads the Second Life
activities of the Socialist Party.
Clashes between political opponents are quite common in Second Life,
which also witnessed vandalism to the virtual office of U.S. democrat
Presidential candidate John Edwards.
As supporters of France's far-right National Front party gathered at
Le Pen's site to discuss a farewell speech from outgoing President
Jacques Chirac this month, they were interrupted by the sudden
discovery of some broken National Front slogans on their site.
"Before, it was worse. They were doing this kind of thing everywhere,
trying to create as much chaos as possible," said a virtual National
Front supporter called French Food, who blamed the cyberattack on
socialists.
He surveyed the slight damage, then returned to sip a virtual glass of
champagne.
Le Pen's site -- which looks like an exhibition space with French
tricolore flags and a poster of him and his daughter Marine -- often
houses supporters in buoyant mood predicting he will do well as they
drink copious amounts of virtual alcohol.
Somewhat incongruously, it is situated next to a Second Life nightclub
called 242. Inside the club, a female avatar with purple dreadlocks
gyrates wildly to the strains of electronic music, apparently
oblivious to the politics next door.
Sarkozy's site, where avatars can collect promotional T-shirts to
support his campaign, is like a conference venue. Avatars gather --
some apparently in mid-air -- for rallies.
Loic Le Meur, who speaks for Sarkozy on Internet-related issues, said
the Second Life site was popular, but not as important for the
candidate as Internet videos and blogs.
"The campaign site gets 15,000 (visits from) avatars a day, which is
very good but not quite the same as reaching out to masses of people,"
said Le Meur.
A teleport and a flight over some mountains takes you to Royal's site,
on an island called Bretton. A virtual flag with her portrait flies
above the scene.
The Socialists said Second Life was part of Royal's plan to tap into
the thoughts of France's youth. Le Pen's followers are keen to have a
decent image in Second Life, as the party tries to airbrush its
sometimes jackboot reputation.
"We're not racist, we're just proud of being French," said a Le Pen
supporter calling herself Celeste Obscure.
Being able to take on a fake identity gives people the courage to
express what they really feel, adherents say.
"This allows for real freedom of expression and it lets you see how
French people allow themselves to be manipulated by the mainstream
media," says Second Life's Mademoiselle Milo, who like the Socialists'
Deschanel declined to reveal her real name.
But since the futuristic world is based around false identities, it is
impossible to be sure that Second Life supporters of the candidates
also support them in real life. A real-life supporter of Royal could
pretend to be a Le Pen voter and enter his site as a virtual spy.
A Le Pen-backing avatar called Proteus Lancaster said wanting to snoop
on rivals is nothing unusual, adding that a person's real character
eventually comes through in Second Life.
"Real life and Second Life are quite similar. You often behave in the
same way."
For more news about Second Life, visit the Reuters Second Life News
Center at http://secondlife.reuters.com
Mar 27th 2007, 12:53 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch must fight or die, says Islam expert
"Transient Music" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> Check out this blog and it's associated information...
>
> http://www.jihadwatch.org/
>
<sarcasm on>
No European posting here believes these are Muslim youths, since
they insist that Muslims are taught to be "peaceful," and are
no threat to secularism in Europe.
<sarcasm off>
Planet Visitor II
Official publisher of AADP Official dictionary
http://www.planetvisitor.name/dictionary.html
>
> Jay
>
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> Check out this blog and it's associated information...
>
> http://www.jihadwatch.org/
>
<sarcasm on>
No European posting here believes these are Muslim youths, since
they insist that Muslims are taught to be "peaceful," and are
no threat to secularism in Europe.
<sarcasm off>
Planet Visitor II
Official publisher of AADP Official dictionary
http://www.planetvisitor.name/dictionary.html
>
> Jay
>
Mar 27th 2007, 6:07 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch must fight or die, says Islam expert
"Planet Visitor II" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
|| "Transient Music" <[email protected]> wrote in message
|| news:[email protected] ups.com...
||| Check out this blog and it's associated information...
|||
||| http://www.jihadwatch.org/
|||
|| <sarcasm on>
|| No European posting here believes these are Muslim youths, since
|| they insist that Muslims are taught to be "peaceful," and are
|| no threat to secularism in Europe.
|| <sarcasm off>
<sarcasm on>
Yes seem a nice lot that fit in to Australian Norms
<sarcasm off>
United Kingdom: Surveys concerning the attitude of Muslims on various
issues, indicate a dangerous percentage of militant tendency. Over 40%
supported the introduction of Sharia Law in the UK. Over 15% supported the
9/11 Islamic terrorist attack on the Twin Towers in New York.
Canada has now given recognition to Sharia Law.
USA Muslims working for Target have refused to handle pork products. Muslim
cab drivers in Minnesota will take no passenger who had alcohol with them or
dogs, not even seeing-eye dogs.
Holland is experiencing great tension in i! ts society because of the large
Muslim population. The majority of the under-14-years population in
Rotterdam are Muslims.
Germany A German judge, hearing a divorce case in Frankfurt, has cited the
Koran in dismissing concerns for a young woman's life after she received
death threats and being severely beaten by her Muslim husband. The judge, a
Muslim woman herself, quoted the Koran in the Court as her authority for
dismissing the wife's divorce application.
France A Muslim man ripped his wife's eyes out in a fit of rage and claimed
in Court he was a "victim of great injustice. Allah commands the beating of
disobedient women who desert their husbands".
Australia In March 2007 the WA Islamic community appointed nine Islamic
leaders to mediate civil disputes among Muslims through decisions based on
Islamic doctrine. They would preside! over marital, divorce, property and
commercial disputes ! under th e auspices of an incorporated body.
Media reports state that 150 hardline Muslim student immigrants have taken
control of a major NSW mosque, in Newcastle, NSW, to facilitate the rapid
conversion of local Muslims to extremist, fundamentalist Wahabbism Islamic
Ideology.
"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
within our Australian nation"
--
petzl
NO MORE MOSLEMS
<http://www.cdp.org.au/fed/mr/0703010f.asp>
Vote
Christian Democrat first,
The Opposition Member second
Your sitting member last
2nd last the anti-environment party the "Greens"
<http://www.youtube.com/frednile>
news:[email protected]
|| "Transient Music" <[email protected]> wrote in message
|| news:[email protected] ups.com...
||| Check out this blog and it's associated information...
|||
||| http://www.jihadwatch.org/
|||
|| <sarcasm on>
|| No European posting here believes these are Muslim youths, since
|| they insist that Muslims are taught to be "peaceful," and are
|| no threat to secularism in Europe.
|| <sarcasm off>
<sarcasm on>
Yes seem a nice lot that fit in to Australian Norms
<sarcasm off>
United Kingdom: Surveys concerning the attitude of Muslims on various
issues, indicate a dangerous percentage of militant tendency. Over 40%
supported the introduction of Sharia Law in the UK. Over 15% supported the
9/11 Islamic terrorist attack on the Twin Towers in New York.
Canada has now given recognition to Sharia Law.
USA Muslims working for Target have refused to handle pork products. Muslim
cab drivers in Minnesota will take no passenger who had alcohol with them or
dogs, not even seeing-eye dogs.
Holland is experiencing great tension in i! ts society because of the large
Muslim population. The majority of the under-14-years population in
Rotterdam are Muslims.
Germany A German judge, hearing a divorce case in Frankfurt, has cited the
Koran in dismissing concerns for a young woman's life after she received
death threats and being severely beaten by her Muslim husband. The judge, a
Muslim woman herself, quoted the Koran in the Court as her authority for
dismissing the wife's divorce application.
France A Muslim man ripped his wife's eyes out in a fit of rage and claimed
in Court he was a "victim of great injustice. Allah commands the beating of
disobedient women who desert their husbands".
Australia In March 2007 the WA Islamic community appointed nine Islamic
leaders to mediate civil disputes among Muslims through decisions based on
Islamic doctrine. They would preside! over marital, divorce, property and
commercial disputes ! under th e auspices of an incorporated body.
Media reports state that 150 hardline Muslim student immigrants have taken
control of a major NSW mosque, in Newcastle, NSW, to facilitate the rapid
conversion of local Muslims to extremist, fundamentalist Wahabbism Islamic
Ideology.
"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
within our Australian nation"
--
petzl
NO MORE MOSLEMS
<http://www.cdp.org.au/fed/mr/0703010f.asp>
Vote
Christian Democrat first,
The Opposition Member second
Your sitting member last
2nd last the anti-environment party the "Greens"
<http://www.youtube.com/frednile>
Mar 27th 2007, 9:30 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch must fight or die, says Islam expert
In article <[email protected]>,
Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
wrote:
> Make credence recognised that on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:07:07 +1000,
> "Petzl" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
> >"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
> >within our Australian nation"
>
> For a good summation of Australian culture, watch:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMQBarUMZc
>
> Those guys need a series of awards, not least of which for the least
> comprehensible english.
Were you the guy on the roof?
Heh.
In all seriousness, they sound a wee bit like ky whys rather than
Aussies.
--
Mr Q. Z. D.
Remove luncheonmeat (truncheon) to reply.
" Everyone's always in favour of saving Hitler's brain.
But when you put it in the body of a great white shark,
ooohh! Suddenly you've gone too far!"
Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
wrote:
> Make credence recognised that on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:07:07 +1000,
> "Petzl" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
> >"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
> >within our Australian nation"
>
> For a good summation of Australian culture, watch:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMQBarUMZc
>
> Those guys need a series of awards, not least of which for the least
> comprehensible english.
Were you the guy on the roof?
Heh.
In all seriousness, they sound a wee bit like ky whys rather than
Aussies.
--
Mr Q. Z. D.
Remove luncheonmeat (truncheon) to reply.
" Everyone's always in favour of saving Hitler's brain.
But when you put it in the body of a great white shark,
ooohh! Suddenly you've gone too far!"
Mar 27th 2007, 10:04 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch must fight or die, says Islam expert
Make credence recognised that on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:07:07 +1000,
"Petzl" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
>within our Australian nation"
For a good summation of Australian culture, watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMQBarUMZc
Those guys need a series of awards, not least of which for the least
comprehensible english.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
"Petzl" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
>within our Australian nation"
For a good summation of Australian culture, watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMQBarUMZc
Those guys need a series of awards, not least of which for the least
comprehensible english.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Mar 27th 2007, 10:07 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unwarranted Hysteria
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:07:07 +1000, "Petzl" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
>within our Australian nation"
Now you know how the Abos felt.
>"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
>within our Australian nation"
Now you know how the Abos felt.
Mar 27th 2007, 10:35 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch must fight or die, says Islam expert
In article <satan.notinnedmeat-A3AA13.20301928032007@localhost>,
[email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
> wrote:
>
> > Make credence recognised that on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:07:07 +1000,
> > "Petzl" <[email protected]> has scripted:
> >
> > >"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
> > >within our Australian nation"
> >
> > For a good summation of Australian culture, watch:
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMQBarUMZc
> >
> > Those guys need a series of awards, not least of which for the least
> > comprehensible english.
>
> Were you the guy on the roof?
>
> Heh.
>
> In all seriousness, they sound a wee bit like ky whys rather than
> Aussies.
>
>
Nah, definitely Aussies. I recognise the roof.
[email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
> wrote:
>
> > Make credence recognised that on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:07:07 +1000,
> > "Petzl" <[email protected]> has scripted:
> >
> > >"These developments create social tensions as it gradually develops a nation
> > >within our Australian nation"
> >
> > For a good summation of Australian culture, watch:
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMQBarUMZc
> >
> > Those guys need a series of awards, not least of which for the least
> > comprehensible english.
>
> Were you the guy on the roof?
>
> Heh.
>
> In all seriousness, they sound a wee bit like ky whys rather than
> Aussies.
>
>
Nah, definitely Aussies. I recognise the roof.
