DTel: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
Aug 5th 2004, 10:31 am
#16
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Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
"Klishpov" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British
ownership
> >From: "ThePrudentMariner" [email protected]
> >Date: 8/5/2004 3:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> >
> ><< Spain fails to rain on Gibraltar's parade>>
> >
> >
> >Under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, Spain ceded Gibraltar to Great Britain
in
> >perpetuity. This means forever, not until Spain has the notion to get it
> >back.
> Not true. Under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, Gibraltar will be british as
long
> as it keeps its current status of british colony. For example if
Gibraltarians
> were to push for self determination or GB lost interest in keeping
Gibraltar,
> it is clearly specified in the treaty that Spain will regain control of
the
> Rock. Spain CEDED not GAVE AWAY the right to recover the Rock. The UK is
pretty
> much condemened to keep possesion of a colony in another European country
in
> the XXIst century and beyond something that is rather amusing.
No sir the treaty does not say that. It says that if Britain
decides to sell the rock Spain must get first refusal.
The wording is:
"And in case it shall hereafter seem meet to the Crown of Great Britain
to grant , sell or by any means to alienate therefrom the propriety
of the said town of Gibraltar, it is hereby agreed and concluded that
the preference of having the sale shall always be given to the
Crown of Spain before any others."
This means that as long as Gibraltar recognises the reigning
British monarch as head of state Gibraltar may remain as
it is. Gibraltar could in fact become a crown dependency
like the Channel Islands or even an independent nation that
retains its tie with the crown like Australia.
Note also that the treaty states
"And Her Britannic Majesty, at the request of the Catholic King,
does consent and agree, that no leave shall be given under
any pretence whatsoever, either to Jews or Moors, to reside
or have their dwellings in the said town of Gibraltar;"
So do you think this racist, anti-semitic clause is enforceable ?
> A while later, in 1815, under the Treaty of Vienna Spain agreed to
> >return the Portuguese town of Olivenza, a town currently just inside the
> >Spain/Portugal border, captured during the Peninsular Wars.
> >
> >It is still Spanish although Portugal have never relinquished its
legitimate
> >claim. The argument the Spanish Government uses is that the population of
> >the town wish to remain Spanish.
> >
> >Heard that one before somewhere?
> Yes with the slight difference that the population of Olivenza are
descendents
> of the original people of Olivenza while in the Gibraltar case less than 3
> percent of its population are of spanish gibraltarian origin since all of
them
> moved out when the british invaded. Most of the so called modern day
> gibraltarians are of maltese or corsican descendency.
> Imagine that Spain invades Brighton. The english population moves out and
Spain
> replaces the original population with scoundrels found all over the world
that
> are allowed to keep their drug trafficking and money laundering businesses
so
> they remain happy (like the UK does with the "gibraltarians").
So you think there was a flourishing drug trafficking business
in Gibraltar in the 18th century !
> Then the UK
> asks Spain to give Brighton back because it is English. Spain decides to
look
> good and ask "the people of Brighton" for their opinion. Basically:
> "Would you like to be Spanish and keep your money laundering tax free
income no
> questions asked way of living or would you like to go back to England and
> actually work for living?".
Actually the centre of drug smuggling and money laundering in the Western
Med is Ceuta and as you pointed out the population of Gibraltar
didnt come from Britain
> That's exactly what Britain is doing with Gibraltar. It is protecting the
> biggest money laundering dump in the world. There are 30,000 people and
90,000
> registered companies in Gibraltar. More than 80% of the so called
> "gibraltarians" own property and LIVE IN SPAIN not Gibraltar. They have
the
> best of both worlds. Dirty business in Gibraltar and awesome living in the
> Costa del Sol. Would you give that away?. The UK won't be able to hold on
to
> the rotten apple for too long. The stench is simply too nasty.
And yet there's no problem with Spain holding on
to Ceuta - odd that.
Keith
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British
ownership
> >From: "ThePrudentMariner" [email protected]
> >Date: 8/5/2004 3:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> >
> ><< Spain fails to rain on Gibraltar's parade>>
> >
> >
> >Under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, Spain ceded Gibraltar to Great Britain
in
> >perpetuity. This means forever, not until Spain has the notion to get it
> >back.
> Not true. Under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, Gibraltar will be british as
long
> as it keeps its current status of british colony. For example if
Gibraltarians
> were to push for self determination or GB lost interest in keeping
Gibraltar,
> it is clearly specified in the treaty that Spain will regain control of
the
> Rock. Spain CEDED not GAVE AWAY the right to recover the Rock. The UK is
pretty
> much condemened to keep possesion of a colony in another European country
in
> the XXIst century and beyond something that is rather amusing.
No sir the treaty does not say that. It says that if Britain
decides to sell the rock Spain must get first refusal.
The wording is:
"And in case it shall hereafter seem meet to the Crown of Great Britain
to grant , sell or by any means to alienate therefrom the propriety
of the said town of Gibraltar, it is hereby agreed and concluded that
the preference of having the sale shall always be given to the
Crown of Spain before any others."
This means that as long as Gibraltar recognises the reigning
British monarch as head of state Gibraltar may remain as
it is. Gibraltar could in fact become a crown dependency
like the Channel Islands or even an independent nation that
retains its tie with the crown like Australia.
Note also that the treaty states
"And Her Britannic Majesty, at the request of the Catholic King,
does consent and agree, that no leave shall be given under
any pretence whatsoever, either to Jews or Moors, to reside
or have their dwellings in the said town of Gibraltar;"
So do you think this racist, anti-semitic clause is enforceable ?
> A while later, in 1815, under the Treaty of Vienna Spain agreed to
> >return the Portuguese town of Olivenza, a town currently just inside the
> >Spain/Portugal border, captured during the Peninsular Wars.
> >
> >It is still Spanish although Portugal have never relinquished its
legitimate
> >claim. The argument the Spanish Government uses is that the population of
> >the town wish to remain Spanish.
> >
> >Heard that one before somewhere?
> Yes with the slight difference that the population of Olivenza are
descendents
> of the original people of Olivenza while in the Gibraltar case less than 3
> percent of its population are of spanish gibraltarian origin since all of
them
> moved out when the british invaded. Most of the so called modern day
> gibraltarians are of maltese or corsican descendency.
> Imagine that Spain invades Brighton. The english population moves out and
Spain
> replaces the original population with scoundrels found all over the world
that
> are allowed to keep their drug trafficking and money laundering businesses
so
> they remain happy (like the UK does with the "gibraltarians").
So you think there was a flourishing drug trafficking business
in Gibraltar in the 18th century !
> Then the UK
> asks Spain to give Brighton back because it is English. Spain decides to
look
> good and ask "the people of Brighton" for their opinion. Basically:
> "Would you like to be Spanish and keep your money laundering tax free
income no
> questions asked way of living or would you like to go back to England and
> actually work for living?".
Actually the centre of drug smuggling and money laundering in the Western
Med is Ceuta and as you pointed out the population of Gibraltar
didnt come from Britain
> That's exactly what Britain is doing with Gibraltar. It is protecting the
> biggest money laundering dump in the world. There are 30,000 people and
90,000
> registered companies in Gibraltar. More than 80% of the so called
> "gibraltarians" own property and LIVE IN SPAIN not Gibraltar. They have
the
> best of both worlds. Dirty business in Gibraltar and awesome living in the
> Costa del Sol. Would you give that away?. The UK won't be able to hold on
to
> the rotten apple for too long. The stench is simply too nasty.
And yet there's no problem with Spain holding on
to Ceuta - odd that.
Keith
Aug 5th 2004, 10:34 am
#17
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Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
"devil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news
[email protected]...
> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 21:28:21 +0000, Klishpov wrote:
> Again, no reference to a colony status. Basically, Gibraltar if for
> Britain to keep. But if they don't want it anymore, Spain gets
> precedence. Merely precedence, not that it recovers it automatically.
Indeed and as for the issue of smuggling
http://manila.djh.dk/Spain/Stories/Storyreader$5
http://www.rnw.nl/special/en/borders...uta000901.html
Keith
news
[email protected]...> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 21:28:21 +0000, Klishpov wrote:
> Again, no reference to a colony status. Basically, Gibraltar if for
> Britain to keep. But if they don't want it anymore, Spain gets
> precedence. Merely precedence, not that it recovers it automatically.
Indeed and as for the issue of smuggling
http://manila.djh.dk/Spain/Stories/Storyreader$5
http://www.rnw.nl/special/en/borders...uta000901.html
Keith
Aug 5th 2004, 10:40 am
#18
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Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
"Donald Newcomb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Sufaud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Spain fails to rain on Gibraltar's parade
> > By Isambard Wilkinson in Gibraltar
> I contend that if the Spanish really want Gibraltar back, they should be
> willing to return a little former British territory they're holding on to:
> Minorca. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)
Fine as long as they dont offer us Ibiza
Keith
news:[email protected]...
> "Sufaud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Spain fails to rain on Gibraltar's parade
> > By Isambard Wilkinson in Gibraltar
> I contend that if the Spanish really want Gibraltar back, they should be
> willing to return a little former British territory they're holding on to:
> Minorca. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)
Fine as long as they dont offer us Ibiza
Keith
Aug 5th 2004, 8:32 pm
#19
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Posts: n/a
Re: DTel: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
Following up to Klishpov
>bears a lot of resemblance to the Gibraltar situation
>right?.
Right.
>Maybe that's why there is no claim whatsoever to Ceuta and Melilla in
>the UN by Morocco?.
It appears Morocco are not happy with the situation.
>Yes, Ceuta and Melilla are a perfect good reason to justify
>the british occupation of Gibraltar. Plus Spain had weapons of mass destruction
>at the time of the invasion so everything is for a good cause. The british are
>heroes. God save them. And God save us from them.
Curta and Melilla are an amusing comment on the Gibraltar
situation, but I suppose nationalistic hatred is blind to seeing
the funny side of things?
How about giving the Canaries back to the Guanches?
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>bears a lot of resemblance to the Gibraltar situation
>right?.
Right.
>Maybe that's why there is no claim whatsoever to Ceuta and Melilla in
>the UN by Morocco?.
It appears Morocco are not happy with the situation.
>Yes, Ceuta and Melilla are a perfect good reason to justify
>the british occupation of Gibraltar. Plus Spain had weapons of mass destruction
>at the time of the invasion so everything is for a good cause. The british are
>heroes. God save them. And God save us from them.
Curta and Melilla are an amusing comment on the Gibraltar
situation, but I suppose nationalistic hatred is blind to seeing
the funny side of things?
How about giving the Canaries back to the Guanches?
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Aug 5th 2004, 8:32 pm
#20
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Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
Following up to Klishpov
>For example if Gibraltarians
>were to push for self determination or GB lost interest in keeping Gibraltar,
They don't seem over keen to be part of Spain!
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>For example if Gibraltarians
>were to push for self determination or GB lost interest in keeping Gibraltar,
They don't seem over keen to be part of Spain!
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Aug 5th 2004, 9:05 pm
#21
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Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
On 05 Aug 2004 21:28:21 GMT, [email protected] (Klishpov) wrote:
>>Subject: Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
>>From: "ThePrudentMariner" [email protected]
>>Date: 8/5/2004 3:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>><< Spain fails to rain on Gibraltar's parade>>
>>Under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, Spain ceded Gibraltar to Great Britain in
>>perpetuity. This means forever, not until Spain has the notion to get it
>>back.
>Not true. Under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, Gibraltar will be british as long
>as it keeps its current status of british colony. For example if Gibraltarians
>were to push for self determination or GB lost interest in keeping Gibraltar,
>it is clearly specified in the treaty that Spain will regain control of the
>Rock. Spain CEDED not GAVE AWAY the right to recover the Rock.
Cede - to give up ones rights to OED
>>Subject: Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
>>From: "ThePrudentMariner" [email protected]
>>Date: 8/5/2004 3:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>><< Spain fails to rain on Gibraltar's parade>>
>>Under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, Spain ceded Gibraltar to Great Britain in
>>perpetuity. This means forever, not until Spain has the notion to get it
>>back.
>Not true. Under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, Gibraltar will be british as long
>as it keeps its current status of british colony. For example if Gibraltarians
>were to push for self determination or GB lost interest in keeping Gibraltar,
>it is clearly specified in the treaty that Spain will regain control of the
>Rock. Spain CEDED not GAVE AWAY the right to recover the Rock.
Cede - to give up ones rights to OED
Aug 5th 2004, 9:44 pm
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
Following up to a.spencer3
>> I contend that if the Spanish really want Gibraltar back, they should be
>> willing to return a little former British territory they're holding on to:
>> Minorca. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)
>Right on.
>And swap the Elgin Marbles to have the Ionians back ... etc., etc.! Those
>totem poles for ...........
>:-))
Lets swop Gibraltar for Mallorca and really piss off all the
Germans who move there :-)
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>> I contend that if the Spanish really want Gibraltar back, they should be
>> willing to return a little former British territory they're holding on to:
>> Minorca. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)
>Right on.
>And swap the Elgin Marbles to have the Ionians back ... etc., etc.! Those
>totem poles for ...........
>:-))
Lets swop Gibraltar for Mallorca and really piss off all the
Germans who move there :-)
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Aug 5th 2004, 9:51 pm
#23
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Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:44:44 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to a.spencer3
>>> I contend that if the Spanish really want Gibraltar back, they should be
>>> willing to return a little former British territory they're holding on to:
>>> Minorca. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)
>>Right on.
>>And swap the Elgin Marbles to have the Ionians back ... etc., etc.! Those
>>totem poles for ...........
>>:-))
>Lets swop Gibraltar for Mallorca and really piss off all the
>Germans who move there :-)
Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to a.spencer3
>>> I contend that if the Spanish really want Gibraltar back, they should be
>>> willing to return a little former British territory they're holding on to:
>>> Minorca. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)
>>Right on.
>>And swap the Elgin Marbles to have the Ionians back ... etc., etc.! Those
>>totem poles for ...........
>>:-))
>Lets swop Gibraltar for Mallorca and really piss off all the
>Germans who move there :-)
Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
Aug 5th 2004, 10:01 pm
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
"Donald Newcomb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Sufaud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Spain fails to rain on Gibraltar's parade
> > By Isambard Wilkinson in Gibraltar
> I contend that if the Spanish really want Gibraltar back, they should be
> willing to return a little former British territory they're holding on to:
> Minorca. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)
Right on.
And swap the Elgin Marbles to have the Ionians back ... etc., etc.! Those
totem poles for ...........
:-))
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> "Sufaud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Spain fails to rain on Gibraltar's parade
> > By Isambard Wilkinson in Gibraltar
> I contend that if the Spanish really want Gibraltar back, they should be
> willing to return a little former British territory they're holding on to:
> Minorca. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)
Right on.
And swap the Elgin Marbles to have the Ionians back ... etc., etc.! Those
totem poles for ...........
:-))
Surreyman
Aug 5th 2004, 10:08 pm
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
Following up to [email protected]
>>Lets swop Gibraltar for Mallorca and really piss off all the
>>Germans who move there :-)
>Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
Absolutely not !!!!
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>>Lets swop Gibraltar for Mallorca and really piss off all the
>>Germans who move there :-)
>Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
Absolutely not !!!!
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Aug 5th 2004, 10:08 pm
#26
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Posts: n/a
Re: DTel: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> a.spencer3 <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Following up to Sufaud
> >>> Gibraltar defiantly celebrated 300 years of British ownership
> >>> yesterday, casting aside a barrage of protests from the Spanish
> >>> government.
> >>
> >> They should put up big signs facing the border:-
> >>
> >> ¿Cuerta? ¿Melilla?
> >
> > Point is, Morocco has no objection to the enclaves!
> That could be a "people who live in glass houses" sort of self-censorship
> relating to Western Sahara.
Relevant point now, indeed. But the Ceuta/Melilla v. Gibraltar 'argument'
was sorted between the FO and Morocco long before then. Morocco didn't want
to rock the boat, their trading etc. links with Spain were too valuable. HMG
never relates Ceuta/Melilla to this context.
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> a.spencer3 <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Following up to Sufaud
> >>> Gibraltar defiantly celebrated 300 years of British ownership
> >>> yesterday, casting aside a barrage of protests from the Spanish
> >>> government.
> >>
> >> They should put up big signs facing the border:-
> >>
> >> ¿Cuerta? ¿Melilla?
> >
> > Point is, Morocco has no objection to the enclaves!
> That could be a "people who live in glass houses" sort of self-censorship
> relating to Western Sahara.
Relevant point now, indeed. But the Ceuta/Melilla v. Gibraltar 'argument'
was sorted between the FO and Morocco long before then. Morocco didn't want
to rock the boat, their trading etc. links with Spain were too valuable. HMG
never relates Ceuta/Melilla to this context.
Surreyman
Aug 5th 2004, 10:18 pm
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 11:08:08 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to [email protected]
>>>Lets swop Gibraltar for Mallorca and really piss off all the
>>>Germans who move there :-)
>>Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
>Absolutely not !!!!
O.K. swap England for Germany cede the right to good beer Rheinheit
verbod beer and keep fizzy lager but get good food and a half decent
football team instead?
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to [email protected]
>>>Lets swop Gibraltar for Mallorca and really piss off all the
>>>Germans who move there :-)
>>Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
>Absolutely not !!!!
O.K. swap England for Germany cede the right to good beer Rheinheit
verbod beer and keep fizzy lager but get good food and a half decent
football team instead?
Aug 5th 2004, 10:22 pm
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: DTel: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
"Keith Willshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Following up to Sufaud
> > >
> > > >Gibraltar defiantly celebrated 300 years of British ownership
> > > >yesterday, casting aside a barrage of protests from the Spanish
> > > >government.
> > >
> > > They should put up big signs facing the border:-
> > >
> > > ¿Cuerta? ¿Melilla?
> > > --
> >
> > Point is, Morocco has no objection to the enclaves!
> >
> This is less than accurate, Morocco claims Ceuta
> just as Spain claim Gibraltar.
> http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/se...-s04_prn.shtml
> http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/eu...spain.morocco/
> Keith
Maybe I'm a little out of date - my Moroccan days were in the early 1990s.
I have a personal letter signed by Douglas Hurd when FS outlining HMG's
position.
Essentially Morocco didn't want to rock the boat, and HMG therefore (still?)
doesn't cite Ceuta/Melilla in the Gibraltar context.
I suspect the issue won't be pressed very hard. Ceuta and Melilla have
certain unofficial values to Morocco!
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Following up to Sufaud
> > >
> > > >Gibraltar defiantly celebrated 300 years of British ownership
> > > >yesterday, casting aside a barrage of protests from the Spanish
> > > >government.
> > >
> > > They should put up big signs facing the border:-
> > >
> > > ¿Cuerta? ¿Melilla?
> > > --
> >
> > Point is, Morocco has no objection to the enclaves!
> >
> This is less than accurate, Morocco claims Ceuta
> just as Spain claim Gibraltar.
> http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/se...-s04_prn.shtml
> http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/eu...spain.morocco/
> Keith
Maybe I'm a little out of date - my Moroccan days were in the early 1990s.
I have a personal letter signed by Douglas Hurd when FS outlining HMG's
position.
Essentially Morocco didn't want to rock the boat, and HMG therefore (still?)
doesn't cite Ceuta/Melilla in the Gibraltar context.
I suspect the issue won't be pressed very hard. Ceuta and Melilla have
certain unofficial values to Morocco!
Surreyman
Aug 5th 2004, 10:29 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
Following up to [email protected]
>>>Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
>>Absolutely not !!!!
>O.K. swap England for Germany cede the right to good beer Rheinheit
>verbod beer and keep fizzy lager but get good food and a half decent
>football team instead?
This is getting confused. I prefer modern british cooking to
sauerkraut and frankfurters, but that's probably unfair. I like
cellar temperature non fizzy bitter (no sweet) bitter. I like the
landscape of the west country, ELD, Snowdonia and above all the
Scottish Highlands and Islands, but ah! *England* for Germany, so
we get to keep all the interesting bits, they get the M25 and we
get speed limit free motorways, hmmm.
Football, who did best in Euro 2000?
BTW what the **** is the "scandal" over Ericcson, he went out
with a girl? So what?
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>>>Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
>>Absolutely not !!!!
>O.K. swap England for Germany cede the right to good beer Rheinheit
>verbod beer and keep fizzy lager but get good food and a half decent
>football team instead?
This is getting confused. I prefer modern british cooking to
sauerkraut and frankfurters, but that's probably unfair. I like
cellar temperature non fizzy bitter (no sweet) bitter. I like the
landscape of the west country, ELD, Snowdonia and above all the
Scottish Highlands and Islands, but ah! *England* for Germany, so
we get to keep all the interesting bits, they get the M25 and we
get speed limit free motorways, hmmm.
Football, who did best in Euro 2000?
BTW what the **** is the "scandal" over Ericcson, he went out
with a girl? So what?
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Aug 5th 2004, 10:41 pm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Gibraltar defiantly celebrates 300 years of British ownership
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 11:29:45 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to [email protected]
>>>>Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
>>>Absolutely not !!!!
>>O.K. swap England for Germany cede the right to good beer Rheinheit
>>verbod beer and keep fizzy lager but get good food and a half decent
>>football team instead?
>This is getting confused. I prefer modern british cooking
exactly what is modern British cooking? Microwave reheated stuff from
Sainsburys?
> to
>sauerkraut and frankfurters, but that's probably unfair.
I was thinking of sitting under the chestnut trees in a biergarten and
having Schweinhaxe and a half liter of Ayinger beer
>I like
>cellar temperature non fizzy bitter (no sweet) bitter. I like the
>landscape of the west country, ELD, Snowdonia and above all the
>Scottish Highlands and Islands, but ah! *England* for Germany, so
>we get to keep all the interesting bits, they get the M25 and we
>get speed limit free motorways, hmmm.
and the Koln/Cologne and Munich ring roads that were the prototype for
the M25, plus several hundred kilometres of traffic jams?
>Football, who did best in Euro 2000?
Greece with a German trainer? :-)
>BTW what the **** is the "scandal" over Ericcson, he went out
>with a girl? So what?
exactly :-)
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to [email protected]
>>>>Swap England for Germany and get decent beer?
>>>Absolutely not !!!!
>>O.K. swap England for Germany cede the right to good beer Rheinheit
>>verbod beer and keep fizzy lager but get good food and a half decent
>>football team instead?
>This is getting confused. I prefer modern british cooking
exactly what is modern British cooking? Microwave reheated stuff from
Sainsburys?
> to
>sauerkraut and frankfurters, but that's probably unfair.
I was thinking of sitting under the chestnut trees in a biergarten and
having Schweinhaxe and a half liter of Ayinger beer
>I like
>cellar temperature non fizzy bitter (no sweet) bitter. I like the
>landscape of the west country, ELD, Snowdonia and above all the
>Scottish Highlands and Islands, but ah! *England* for Germany, so
>we get to keep all the interesting bits, they get the M25 and we
>get speed limit free motorways, hmmm.
and the Koln/Cologne and Munich ring roads that were the prototype for
the M25, plus several hundred kilometres of traffic jams?
>Football, who did best in Euro 2000?
Greece with a German trainer? :-)
>BTW what the **** is the "scandal" over Ericcson, he went out
>with a girl? So what?
exactly :-)
