Juliana L Holm

Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > Mason Barge wrote:
    >> If you REALLY hate to wear anything more dressy than a shirt and slacks,
    >> there are cruises that do that, especially Silversea (expensive),
    >> Norwegian CL, and Princess.

    > What if you hate to wear anything more dressy than shorts and a t-shirt?

Then you don't do a typical mass market cruise. Something like Windjammer
or a small ship cruise in Europe.

FWIW I enjoy cruising, find them very relaxing; but find them unsatisfying
as travel. So usually my husband and I do one relaxing vacation every year,
and two or so "travel" vacations, where we do land travel, and usually
do things in more detail, spend the time there.

For example, in 2002 we went on one Southern Caribbean cruise (with an extra
day in San Juan at the beginning), a trip to the Great Smokey Mountain/Asheville
NC area, and I visited the Harz Mountains in Germany (where a friend was living)We got both relaxation and travel.

This year we went on an Eastern Caribbean Cruise on a new ship, we will be '
visiting the outer banks of North Carolina for a week, and spending a week in
Hilton Head and visiting SAvannah (Domestic travel because my husband is starting
a consulting business and money is tight, not because we don't want to go to
Europe).

Both our 2002 and 2003 cruises were with Norwegian, where you can choose who
you dine with and when. I enjoy getting prettied up, but have exactly zero
attitude about how others are dressed. I can enjoy a five course dinner sitting
next to someone in cutoff shorts and a t-shirt just fine. If I dress up I
do so because I enjoy it.

Hope this helps folks understand.

Julie
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Marie Lewis

In article , Peter L
writes
    >"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> In article , CupCaked
    >> writes
    >> >You can certainly get a taste of the country you're visiting, enough
    >> >so that you can decide whether you would like to come back for an
    >> >extended, in-depth trip someday.
    >> I am with Sartre "Hell is other people."
    >Please enlighten me. Why are you on usenet talking to "other people"?
It is their physical presence in a prolonged holiday situation that I
abhor. Such situations are found on cruises and coach tours.
--
Marie Lewis

Marie Lewis

In article , Cathy Kearns
writes
    >Down side is you have to find the hotels, you need to speak enough of
    >the local language to order dinner, you need to deal with local currencies,
    >and find your own way. It can get tiring.

These things are so easy to do.
--
Marie Lewis

Icono Clast

From: CupCaked ([email protected])
[email protected] (Icono Clast) wrote:
    >> you won't be able to do much of anything at the boats'
    >> destinations.

    > Not entirely true.

    > You can certainly get a taste of the country

I doubt it, unless it's very small. You can get a taste of the town
where you dock or even its province, but it's not likely to be a taste
of the country.

    > maybe we didn't have the chance to see EVERYthing offered there,
    > but I'm so glad we went AT ALL.

And I'm glad for you. But that does not negate what I said.


From: Mason Barge ([email protected]):
    > [email protected] (Icono Clast) wrote:
    >> When travelling, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in
    >> luxury nor relaxing. Romance is an always welcome incident.
    >> We were on a cruise from May 6-11 visiting Seattle, Victoria,
    >> and debarking in Vancouver.
    >> In Seattle, we had time only for the Experience Music Project.
    >> Did absolutely nothing else.
    >>
    >> In Victoria, we had time only for the BC Museum. Did absolutely
    >> nothing else.
    >>
    >> In Vancouver, the bus taking us to Seattle's airport took us
    >> through Stanley Park. Big deal.
    >>
    >> Going by cruise ship is no way to travel. Oh, you can get from
    >> one place to another on them, very pleasantly and economically,
    >> but you can't see much of anything in the time those vessels
    >> are parked. Take a cruise with people who share your interests
    >> while aboard because you won't be able to do much of anything
    >> at the boats' destinations.

    > Very overstated,

Please specifiy which of the preceding is an overstatement.

    > especially from someone whose cruising experience consists of a
    > short itinerary

How dare you so categorize my "cruising experience" prior to
ascertaining whether there's any truth to it?!? Were you to take a
look at rec.travel.cruises, you'd find more than 50 posts from me
based upon my experience. If I've forgot none, here's my "cruising
experience":

SS Lurline: San Francisco-Honolulu-Los Angeles (eight nights aboard)
SS Maasdam: Manhattan-Le Havre (five[?] nights aboard)
SS Jerusalem: Piraus-Manhattan (thirteen nights aboard)
MS Carnival: San Pedro-San Pedro (four[?] nights aboard)
DEZ Norwegian Sky: Miami-Miami (six nights aboard)
DEZ Norwegian Sky: San Francisco-Vancouver (four nights aboard)

That adds up to fewer than six weeks aboard ships. Yes, that's
extremely limited for making comments but it's all I can use for a
basis. It probably cannot compare with your impliedly extensive
experience. I have no intention of taking any other cruises but
probably will from time to time.

    > Cruising is an excellent way to see port cities

We disagree. A cruise ship is a destination that moves to briefly
visit convenient ports. "Cruising" is a ship-board activity. Calling
at ports is incidental.

    > I have done long vacations in Europe with a car,

So have I (well, with a motorcycle). Tell me how you define "long" and
I'll tell you what I've done.


From: brenda ([email protected])
[email protected] (Icono Clast) wrote
    >> Take a cruise with people who share your interests while aboard
    >> because you won't be able to do much of anything at the boats'
    >> destinations.

    > What cruise line were you on?

Norwegian.

    > Sounds like a ridiculous itinerary if that was all you could do.

    > Ususally they are in port 10 - 15 hours - you can get a lot done
    > in that time.

That would be true if you were ashore for 10-15 hours but the ship
arrives perhaps an hour before you're allowed to debark and insists
you embark about half an hour before weighing anchor but few people
get back to the ship that close to sailing.

So the ship docks at 6 and the local migra allow you off at 7 but
you're still asleep because you were dancing 'til 2. You get up at 8
and gobble down some food, bathe, dress and debark at 9:30.
Walk to Seattle Center: 0:20 = 9:50
View Frank Gehry's vision in early light: 0:10 = 10:00
Walk around Seattle Center: 0:00
Elevator to top of Space Needle: 0:00
Run through Experience Music Project: 6:00 = 16:00
View Frank Gehry's vision in late light: 0:15 = 16:15
Walk to ship reading historical information: 0:45 = 17:00

What else could one do? The Seattle Underground tours probably don't
have any starting times that late not to mention that it would take a
while to get to Pioneer Square. The other museums have probably closed
at five or would at six but even if the ship didn't sail 'til 23:00
(using your 15-hour example) there would be nothing to see or do that
could be seen or done only in Seattle with the possible exception of
the Space Needle.
__________________________________________________ ___________
A San Franciscan who's visited 49 of 50 US states
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net

Mason Barge

On Fri, 30 May 2003 22:19:26 +0100, Marie Lewis
wrote:

    >In article , Peter L
    > writes
    >>"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>> In article , CupCaked
    >>> writes
    >>> >You can certainly get a taste of the country you're visiting, enough
    >>> >so that you can decide whether you would like to come back for an
    >>> >extended, in-depth trip someday.
    >>> I am with Sartre "Hell is other people."
    >>Please enlighten me. Why are you on usenet talking to "other people"?
    >It is their physical presence in a prolonged holiday situation that I
    >abhor. Such situations are found on cruises and coach tours.

I suspect you know more about coach tours than cruises. They are exactly and
polar opposites as far as the intrusiveness of other travelers.

I am about average in congeniality and I find other people on cruises to be an
enormous delight. I have made good friends on the cruises I have taken. The
other passengers are an asset. I mean, sure, if you take some 4-day Carnival
cruise during spring break, your serenity will be disturbed by masses of drunk
and screaming rednecks.

You know, on a decent ship (more than 40 tons per passenger) there are large
areas and many small ones with nobody in them (or maybe a quiet person reading a
book 50 feet away). It is simple to find a secluded corner for an hour or a
week. It is nothing whatsover like a coach tour and other people are less
intrusive than in a hotel or train. You really are just plain wrong on this
point.
--
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
- Abraham Lincoln

Cupcaked

Marie Lewis wrote:

    >In article , Cathy Kearns
    > writes
    >>Down side is you have to find the hotels, you need to speak enough of
    >>the local language to order dinner, you need to deal with local currencies,
    >>and find your own way. It can get tiring.
    >These things are so easy to do.

For some, yes, but as Cathy said, it is tiring. Who wants to do this
on a vacation meant to be relaxing?

I've traveled through Europe, and I've also cruised alot. Most of the
time, I'll take cruising in a heartbeat.

Karen





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http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews
(...and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Mason Barge

On Fri, 30 May 2003 22:20:02 +0100, Marie Lewis
wrote:

    >In article , Cathy Kearns
    > writes
    >>Down side is you have to find the hotels, you need to speak enough of
    >>the local language to order dinner, you need to deal with local currencies,
    >>and find your own way. It can get tiring.
    >These things are so easy to do.

Not compared to walking to your cabin, which your steward has probably cleaned
up since you left and set out some fresh flowers and/or fruit!

Finding one's hotel can actually be a horrendous (if somewhat fun) ordeal,
especially if you are driving. I don't mind it, but I certainly wouldn't call
it "easy", especially if you are driving into someplace like Rome or Lisbon in
heavy traffic.
--
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
- Abraham Lincoln

Magda

On Sat, 31 May 2003 14:17:55 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected]
(CupCaked) arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Marie Lewis wrote:
...
... >In article , Cathy Kearns
... > writes
... >>Down side is you have to find the hotels, you need to speak enough of
... >>the local language to order dinner, you need to deal with local currencies,
... >>and find your own way. It can get tiring.
... >
... >These things are so easy to do.
...
... For some, yes, but as Cathy said, it is tiring. Who wants to do this
... on a vacation meant to be relaxing?

"Relaxing" means what for you, doing nothing ?
As for me, the old saying "a change is as good as a rest" is quite true. My holidays are
filled with things to do, places to go to and people to see - anything but "doing
nothing". And it's not learning a few words in a foreign language that will scare me or
make me feel exhaaaaaaausted !

... I've traveled through Europe, and I've also cruised alot. Most of the
... time, I'll take cruising in a heartbeat.

Hmm, bof.

Miguel Cruz

CupCaked wrote:
    > Marie Lewis wrote:
    >> Cathy Kearns writes
    >>> Down side is you have to find the hotels, you need to speak enough of
    >>> the local language to order dinner, you need to deal with local
    >>> currencies, and find your own way. It can get tiring.
    >> These things are so easy to do.
    > For some, yes, but as Cathy said, it is tiring. Who wants to do this
    > on a vacation meant to be relaxing?

They're FUN, not tiring. If I didn't get to do stuff like that, I'd stay
home. The whole point of traveling is to have different experiences from
normal.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam

Cupcaked

Magda wrote:

    >On Sat, 31 May 2003 14:17:55 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected]
    >(CupCaked) arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... Marie Lewis wrote:
    > ...
    > ... >In article , Cathy Kearns
    > ... > writes
    > ... >>Down side is you have to find the hotels, you need to speak enough of
    > ... >>the local language to order dinner, you need to deal with local currencies,
    > ... >>and find your own way. It can get tiring.
    > ... >
    > ... >These things are so easy to do.
    > ...
    > ... For some, yes, but as Cathy said, it is tiring. Who wants to do this
    > ... on a vacation meant to be relaxing?
    >"Relaxing" means what for you, doing nothing ?

I didn't say that. You did. Your entire response to my post is based
on a misinterpretation, sorry.

Karen




__ /7__/7__/7__
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews
(...and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Cupcaked

[email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:

    > The whole point of traveling is to have different experiences from
    > normal.
    >miguel

You're exactly right. Cruising is ALSO traveling.

Karen




__ /7__/7__/7__
\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews
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Keith Anderson

On Fri, 30 May 2003 21:41:37 +0100, Harvey Van Sickle
wrote:

    >On Thu, 29 May 2003 05:51:19 GMT, brenda wrote
    >> Before you get all excited, I have travelled Europe for an entire
    >> year via VW bus in my early years, backpacked it for 6 months each
    >> time a few years later, visited on various trips at least 10 times
    >> since & lived there twice. However, as wonderful as these all
    >> were, our most relaxing & least stressful, by far, trips have been
    >> via cruise ship.
    >>
    >-snip-
    >I don't mean this as a challenge to what you say, but I wonder if your
    >feelings about this would have been wildly different if you hadn't
    >previously done the backpacking/trips/ex-pat thing *before* you did the
    >cruises?
    >I made trips from Canada to Europe in the 1970s (in my 20s); then
    >moved here to England (aged 30); spent a lot of years doing exactly
    >what I'd dreamed of doing (constant exposure to London; annual
    >fortnights in European countries; uncounted week-end breaks to
    >France and Belgium); but have gone on fewer trips over the past few
    >years, and lately have been doing more family visits (to Canada and New
    >Zealand).
    >I'm not jaded at all -- I'm far from being "travelled out" -- but my
    >prioritised view of how often I wish to travel, what I want to see, and
    >what I want in the way of convenience, has unquestionably changed.
    >(I'd say it'd be weird if it *hadn't* changed.....people my age (50)
    >who are always trying to re-capture the visceral excitement of their
    >first trip overseas strike me as......sort of sad.)

There was an interview this morning on BBC Radio 4 with Paul Theroux,
who still maintains that solo travel without a time deadline is (in
his opinion anyway) the best way t travel.

As I've got older, I certainly can't cope with the marathons I used to
have when I was younger - all-night travel is out of the question due
to a medical condition, and I like to arrive at a destination around 5
pm, and spend a few days there if possible.

However, I'm with Paul Theroux (and Marie) regarding group travel -
having worked in group travel I wouldn't want someone (such as
myself!) herding me around, and whilst working as a guide, certainly
in mass-market tourism, I met very few punters who I'd want to spend
any time with. Not none - just very few. I much prefer to meet people
from the country I'm visiting when travelling alone. That's been the
fun part of travelling for me.

Magda

On Sat, 31 May 2003 19:34:27 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected]
(CupCaked) arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

...
... I didn't say that. You did. Your entire response to my post is based
... on a misinterpretation, sorry.

I understood that, for you, learning a few foreign words is "tiring", thank you very much.

Marie Lewis

In article , CupCaked
writes
    >>These things are so easy to do.
    >For some, yes, but as Cathy said, it is tiring. Who wants to do this
    >on a vacation meant to be relaxing?

I do not find it tiring. I find it interesting.

Besides, if I am going to meet people, I prefer them yo be of the
nationality of the country we are visiting.
--
Marie Lewis

Marie Lewis

In article , Mason Barge
writes
    >>These things are so easy to do.
    >Not compared to walking to your cabin, which your steward has probably cleaned
    >up since you left and set out some fresh flowers and/or fruit!

I would find that so-o-o boring.


    >Finding one's hotel can actually be a horrendous (if somewhat fun) ordeal,
    >especially if you are driving.

We don't find it so: one can get on the net and get directions, or
telephone to get them.


    >I don't mind it, but I certainly wouldn't call
    >it "easy", especially if you are driving into someplace like Rome or Lisbon in
    >heavy traffic.

WE do not stay in cities: one meets more interesting people in the
country.

--
Marie Lewis