Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
Dec 18th 2004, 3:16 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The diesel
lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same car. Is
it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full costs?
Paul
drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The diesel
lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same car. Is
it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full costs?
Paul
Dec 18th 2004, 3:42 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
> drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The
> diesel lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same
> car. Is it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full costs?
A quick calculation using average mileges for my small cars
suggests that this is 200 litres of diesel or 300 liters of petrol.
Petrol costs about 20% more (it's only 10% in Germany) at
about 1 euro for diesel, 1.20 for petrol (usually it's cheaper
than this) this is 200 Euro against 360 Euro. So the answer
is no. If you have a bigger car then the cost will be more but
TBH the saving is still going to be marginal.
The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
20 Euro.
4000 km is a small amount of driving for one month holiday
over that area. Are you sure that you've calculated it right?
tim
news:[email protected]...
> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
> drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The
> diesel lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same
> car. Is it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full costs?
A quick calculation using average mileges for my small cars
suggests that this is 200 litres of diesel or 300 liters of petrol.
Petrol costs about 20% more (it's only 10% in Germany) at
about 1 euro for diesel, 1.20 for petrol (usually it's cheaper
than this) this is 200 Euro against 360 Euro. So the answer
is no. If you have a bigger car then the cost will be more but
TBH the saving is still going to be marginal.
The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
20 Euro.
4000 km is a small amount of driving for one month holiday
over that area. Are you sure that you've calculated it right?
tim
Dec 18th 2004, 3:50 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
Hi Tim,
Thanks for your quick reply. I think the distance calculation is fairly
accurate, through we're likely to do a bit of day tripping now and again.
But generally speaking, we're doing the self-catering thing for a week at a
time - and we'll only make it to the northern region of Croatia.
Thanks again. This is extremely helpful.
Paul
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which
>> we'll drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France.
>> The diesel lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the
>> same car. Is it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full
>> costs?
> A quick calculation using average mileges for my small cars
> suggests that this is 200 litres of diesel or 300 liters of petrol.
> Petrol costs about 20% more (it's only 10% in Germany) at
> about 1 euro for diesel, 1.20 for petrol (usually it's cheaper
> than this) this is 200 Euro against 360 Euro. So the answer
> is no. If you have a bigger car then the cost will be more but
> TBH the saving is still going to be marginal.
> The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
> never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
> 20 Euro.
> 4000 km is a small amount of driving for one month holiday
> over that area. Are you sure that you've calculated it right?
> tim
>
Thanks for your quick reply. I think the distance calculation is fairly
accurate, through we're likely to do a bit of day tripping now and again.
But generally speaking, we're doing the self-catering thing for a week at a
time - and we'll only make it to the northern region of Croatia.
Thanks again. This is extremely helpful.
Paul
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which
>> we'll drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France.
>> The diesel lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the
>> same car. Is it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full
>> costs?
> A quick calculation using average mileges for my small cars
> suggests that this is 200 litres of diesel or 300 liters of petrol.
> Petrol costs about 20% more (it's only 10% in Germany) at
> about 1 euro for diesel, 1.20 for petrol (usually it's cheaper
> than this) this is 200 Euro against 360 Euro. So the answer
> is no. If you have a bigger car then the cost will be more but
> TBH the saving is still going to be marginal.
> The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
> never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
> 20 Euro.
> 4000 km is a small amount of driving for one month holiday
> over that area. Are you sure that you've calculated it right?
> tim
>
Dec 18th 2004, 9:03 am
#4
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Languedoc
Posts: 243
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
Hi
I agree with all the above except :
Modern diesel engines give better mid range acceleration than equivalent petrol engines
Other reasons for their popularity in Europe is longer life, higher residual values & lower insurance costs (which doesn't directly impact your lease cost ?)
Peter
I agree with all the above except :
Modern diesel engines give better mid range acceleration than equivalent petrol engines
Other reasons for their popularity in Europe is longer life, higher residual values & lower insurance costs (which doesn't directly impact your lease cost ?)
Peter
Dec 18th 2004, 9:58 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
Paul wrote:
> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
> drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The diesel
> lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same car. Is
> it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full costs?
>
> Paul
>
>
First you need some price information. I found this site
http://www.benzinpreis.de/international.phtml has the current prices in
€/litres for many countries.
regular diesel
France 1.08 0.79
Croatia 0.73 0.71
Italy 1.13 0.86
Germany 1.06 0.94
average 1.00 0.83
Then with a little arithmetic you can work out your respective costs.
Gasoline - the car should get about 10 litres per 100km , so you'll need
400 litres of fuel for the trip at a cost of 400€.
The same car with a diesel engine should get about 6 litres per 100, so
you need 240 litres for the same trip at a cost of 199€.
In other words - the saving on fuel is balanced out by the higher lease
rating. So it's up to you whether you want to help stop global warming
and drive a diesel, or enjoy a smoother ride and contribute to the
disappearance of Venice, the Netherlands, not to mention New Orleans, in
a few decades.
T.
> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
> drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The diesel
> lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same car. Is
> it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full costs?
>
> Paul
>
>
First you need some price information. I found this site
http://www.benzinpreis.de/international.phtml has the current prices in
€/litres for many countries.
regular diesel
France 1.08 0.79
Croatia 0.73 0.71
Italy 1.13 0.86
Germany 1.06 0.94
average 1.00 0.83
Then with a little arithmetic you can work out your respective costs.
Gasoline - the car should get about 10 litres per 100km , so you'll need
400 litres of fuel for the trip at a cost of 400€.
The same car with a diesel engine should get about 6 litres per 100, so
you need 240 litres for the same trip at a cost of 199€.
In other words - the saving on fuel is balanced out by the higher lease
rating. So it's up to you whether you want to help stop global warming
and drive a diesel, or enjoy a smoother ride and contribute to the
disappearance of Venice, the Netherlands, not to mention New Orleans, in
a few decades.
T.
Dec 18th 2004, 10:39 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
tim wrote:
> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
> never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
> 20 Euro.
>
I drive an Audi A6 with a 1.9l turbodiesel engine. Not only does the car
get 5.6 litres per hundred km and do 200km/h with ease, the torque is
MUCH better than any gasoline car in the same class that I've driven.
You can feel the turbo kick in like the car's never going to stop
accelerating.
T.
PS - for non-Europeans, that's over 40 MPG and 125 mph.
> 4000 km is a small amount of driving for one month holiday
> over that area. Are you sure that you've calculated it right?
>
> tim
>
>
> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
> never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
> 20 Euro.
>
I drive an Audi A6 with a 1.9l turbodiesel engine. Not only does the car
get 5.6 litres per hundred km and do 200km/h with ease, the torque is
MUCH better than any gasoline car in the same class that I've driven.
You can feel the turbo kick in like the car's never going to stop
accelerating.
T.
PS - for non-Europeans, that's over 40 MPG and 125 mph.
> 4000 km is a small amount of driving for one month holiday
> over that area. Are you sure that you've calculated it right?
>
> tim
>
>
Dec 19th 2004, 12:17 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
> drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The
diesel
> lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same car.
Is
> it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full costs?
> Paul
Last time I did this the differential between gasoline and diesel was a lot
less than that. More like $100 Australian.
Sure you have read the quote correctly?
For me diesel was definately cheaper. Admittedly we had a Clio 1.5l turbo,
and drove 19000km!
Gerrit - Oz
news:[email protected]...
> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
> drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The
diesel
> lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same car.
Is
> it worth it? are we likely to save that much in full costs?
> Paul
Last time I did this the differential between gasoline and diesel was a lot
less than that. More like $100 Australian.
Sure you have read the quote correctly?
For me diesel was definately cheaper. Admittedly we had a Clio 1.5l turbo,
and drove 19000km!
Gerrit - Oz
Dec 19th 2004, 5:10 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
"Tom Peel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> tim wrote:
>> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
>> never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
>> 20 Euro.
> I drive an Audi A6 with a 1.9l turbodiesel engine. Not only does the car
> get 5.6 litres per hundred km and do 200km/h with ease, the torque is MUCH
> better than any gasoline car in the same class that I've driven. You can
> feel the turbo kick in like the car's never going to stop accelerating.
But when you get a hire car you don't get to choose.
You get what you are given and if there are diesel cars available
which are dogs (and IME there are) there is a chance that you
will get one.
why take that chance for such little reward.
tim
news:[email protected]...
> tim wrote:
>> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
>> never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
>> 20 Euro.
> I drive an Audi A6 with a 1.9l turbodiesel engine. Not only does the car
> get 5.6 litres per hundred km and do 200km/h with ease, the torque is MUCH
> better than any gasoline car in the same class that I've driven. You can
> feel the turbo kick in like the car's never going to stop accelerating.
But when you get a hire car you don't get to choose.
You get what you are given and if there are diesel cars available
which are dogs (and IME there are) there is a chance that you
will get one.
why take that chance for such little reward.
tim
Dec 19th 2004, 11:46 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
According to the 'ViaMichelin' web site the Jaguar diesel cars are also
becoming very popular, particularly in France, although they are not
particularly powerful.
--
wf.
Tom Peel wrote:
> I drive an Audi A6 with a 1.9l turbodiesel engine. Not only does the car
> get 5.6 litres per hundred km and do 200km/h with ease, the torque is
> MUCH better than any gasoline car in the same class that I've driven.
> You can feel the turbo kick in like the car's never going to stop
> accelerating.
> T.
>
> PS - for non-Europeans, that's over 40 MPG and 125 mph.
>
becoming very popular, particularly in France, although they are not
particularly powerful.
--
wf.
Tom Peel wrote:
> I drive an Audi A6 with a 1.9l turbodiesel engine. Not only does the car
> get 5.6 litres per hundred km and do 200km/h with ease, the torque is
> MUCH better than any gasoline car in the same class that I've driven.
> You can feel the turbo kick in like the car's never going to stop
> accelerating.
> T.
>
> PS - for non-Europeans, that's over 40 MPG and 125 mph.
>
Dec 19th 2004, 11:58 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Peel <[email protected]> wrote:
> In other words - the saving on fuel is balanced out by the higher lease
> rating. So it's up to you whether you want to help stop global warming
> and drive a diesel, or enjoy a smoother ride and contribute to the
> disappearance of Venice, the Netherlands, not to mention New Orleans, in
> a few decades.
Yeah but doesn't diesel add more particulate to the air immediately
around you?
It may not contribute to flooding those areas but it probably gets your
lungs dirtier?
Tom Peel <[email protected]> wrote:
> In other words - the saving on fuel is balanced out by the higher lease
> rating. So it's up to you whether you want to help stop global warming
> and drive a diesel, or enjoy a smoother ride and contribute to the
> disappearance of Venice, the Netherlands, not to mention New Orleans, in
> a few decades.
Yeah but doesn't diesel add more particulate to the air immediately
around you?
It may not contribute to flooding those areas but it probably gets your
lungs dirtier?
Dec 19th 2004, 11:37 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
Am Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:16:42 -0500 schrieb Paul:
> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
> drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The diesel
> lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same car. Is
> it worth it?
No, it's not worth it. The difference between Diesel and gas is about 10 -
15 cent/litre.
Lets say you use 10 litres / 100 km = 400 litres for your trip, then you
would save 40 - 60 EUR.
If the diesel car costs 200 more, then forget it!
Regards,
Frank
> We will be leasing a car for about a month this summer, during which we'll
> drive around 4000 km through Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. The diesel
> lease is nearly 200 euros more than the gasoline model of the same car. Is
> it worth it?
No, it's not worth it. The difference between Diesel and gas is about 10 -
15 cent/litre.
Lets say you use 10 litres / 100 km = 400 litres for your trip, then you
would save 40 - 60 EUR.
If the diesel car costs 200 more, then forget it!
Regards,
Frank
Dec 24th 2004, 1:20 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
poldy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Peel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>In other words - the saving on fuel is balanced out by the higher lease
>>rating. So it's up to you whether you want to help stop global warming
>>and drive a diesel, or enjoy a smoother ride and contribute to the
>>disappearance of Venice, the Netherlands, not to mention New Orleans, in
>>a few decades.
>
>
> Yeah but doesn't diesel add more particulate to the air immediately
> around you?
>
> It may not contribute to flooding those areas but it probably gets your
> lungs dirtier?
Peugeot introduced filters on their diesels some years back. It's quite
likely that they will be mandated in the next few years in Europe.
T.
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Peel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>In other words - the saving on fuel is balanced out by the higher lease
>>rating. So it's up to you whether you want to help stop global warming
>>and drive a diesel, or enjoy a smoother ride and contribute to the
>>disappearance of Venice, the Netherlands, not to mention New Orleans, in
>>a few decades.
>
>
> Yeah but doesn't diesel add more particulate to the air immediately
> around you?
>
> It may not contribute to flooding those areas but it probably gets your
> lungs dirtier?
Peugeot introduced filters on their diesels some years back. It's quite
likely that they will be mandated in the next few years in Europe.
T.
Dec 24th 2004, 1:31 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
tim wrote:
> "Tom Peel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>tim wrote:
>>>"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
>>>never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
>>>20 Euro.
>>I drive an Audi A6 with a 1.9l turbodiesel engine. Not only does the car
>>get 5.6 litres per hundred km and do 200km/h with ease, the torque is MUCH
>>better than any gasoline car in the same class that I've driven. You can
>>feel the turbo kick in like the car's never going to stop accelerating.
>
>
> But when you get a hire car you don't get to choose.
Why don't you get to choose?
>
> You get what you are given and if there are diesel cars available
> which are dogs (and IME there are) there is a chance that you
> will get one.
>
> why take that chance for such little reward.
>
> tim
>
>
>
>
I don't understand your argument. What happens if there are gasoline
powered cars available which are dogs? Are you saying the rental company
would not give you one, but they would give you a poor performing
diesel? What would be the rental company's motivation?
T
> "Tom Peel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>tim wrote:
>>>"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>The acceleration of some Diesels can be a pig. If you have
>>>never driven one before I wouldn't do it for the sake of
>>>20 Euro.
>>I drive an Audi A6 with a 1.9l turbodiesel engine. Not only does the car
>>get 5.6 litres per hundred km and do 200km/h with ease, the torque is MUCH
>>better than any gasoline car in the same class that I've driven. You can
>>feel the turbo kick in like the car's never going to stop accelerating.
>
>
> But when you get a hire car you don't get to choose.
Why don't you get to choose?
>
> You get what you are given and if there are diesel cars available
> which are dogs (and IME there are) there is a chance that you
> will get one.
>
> why take that chance for such little reward.
>
> tim
>
>
>
>
I don't understand your argument. What happens if there are gasoline
powered cars available which are dogs? Are you saying the rental company
would not give you one, but they would give you a poor performing
diesel? What would be the rental company's motivation?
T
Dec 26th 2004, 10:39 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:31:21 +0100, Tom Peel wrote:
> I don't understand your argument. What happens if there are gasoline
> powered cars available which are dogs? Are you saying the rental company
> would not give you one, but they would give you a poor performing
> diesel? What would be the rental company's motivation?
Have you driven a modern diesel ?
--
Tim C.
> I don't understand your argument. What happens if there are gasoline
> powered cars available which are dogs? Are you saying the rental company
> would not give you one, but they would give you a poor performing
> diesel? What would be the rental company's motivation?
Have you driven a modern diesel ?
--
Tim C.
Dec 26th 2004, 10:41 pm
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Diesel or Gas - How much do you save?
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:39:24 +0100, Tim Challenger
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:31:21 +0100, Tom Peel wrote:
>> I don't understand your argument. What happens if there are gasoline
>> powered cars available which are dogs? Are you saying the rental company
>> would not give you one, but they would give you a poor performing
>> diesel? What would be the rental company's motivation?
>Have you driven a modern diesel ?
A Korean 3 cylinder model, 0-100 km/hour = infinity?
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:31:21 +0100, Tom Peel wrote:
>> I don't understand your argument. What happens if there are gasoline
>> powered cars available which are dogs? Are you saying the rental company
>> would not give you one, but they would give you a poor performing
>> diesel? What would be the rental company's motivation?
>Have you driven a modern diesel ?
A Korean 3 cylinder model, 0-100 km/hour = infinity?
--
Martin
